Lawsuit accuses car industry of inflating prices

[treg50]

A class-action lawsuit launched in Toronto accuses major automakers and dealers of violating competition and consumer protection laws by conspiring to artificially inflate car prices in Canada.

Full article: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070926/automobile_lawsuit_070926/20070926?hub=TopStories

[Jason Lange]

Wow glad to hear someones standing up to the auto manufacturers. I recently purchased a 2007 f350 and found out I could have saved thousands if I'd bought in the states. Wonder how this will turn out.

[HondaRice]

yeah this lawsuit is do years years ago. its canadians fault they choose to buy vehicles and always say there we getting a good deal. bs

[Aleks]

It was only a matter of time.

[Skyline_Addict]

would be nice if I didn't absolutely have to go down to the US to get my next car..

[phreezee]

Right on! It's not against the law to charge higher prices, but it is if the companies put in measures to keep you from buying for a lower price.

[Xtrema]

What are they using as evidence?

Do you want your car to have a lower resale value?

Lower resale value = higher lease returns next few year which will make dealer/manufacturers lose a shit load of money.

As much as I like to see cheaper cars, if we leave it to market forces, it will probably take a few years before it happens. Not every manufacturer have a nice big margin to reduce price by 8% like Porsche did.

[4doorj]

:thumbsup:

[benyl]

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/09/26/classaction.html


The lawsuit covers anyone who bought a vehicle in Canada between August 2005 and August 2007. It requires court approval to get certified as a class action.


Among other things, the lawsuit alleges that the defendants reduced competition by:

* requiring buyers to agree not to export their vehicles
* failing to honour warranties in Canada if vehicles were bought in the U.S.
* threatening or penalizing dealers who failed to follow the automakers' rules

The statement of claim's allegations have not been proven in court. In addition to $2 billion in general damages, the suit seeks $100 million in punitive damages.


Five years ago, when the Canadian dollar was worth 62 cents US, the cross-border price differential was reversed. Canadian car prices then were often thousands of dollars cheaper than U.S. prices, after the exchange rate was factored in.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by benyl
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/09/26/classaction.html







Don't get your hopes up. American did a similar lawsuit 5 years ago when $cdn is cheap. It just reach the court now which is already an non-issue. Expect the same in our case.

[SilverRex]

well you just can never know what will happen, but its nice to see someone or some group is doing something.

just wait, if the loonie starts to hover more than the dollar, then things will move quicker. because now it wont be just 30% gap, it may be 40+%

given how dam close we are to the US cities, that is just insane difference.

Sure maybe you will never see prices equate on the same scale because of all the import taxes and crap.

but something will be done,

more discount coming,

[CivicTunr]

they dont really care about canada.
our car market isnt even as big as california's so why keep us happy? yah its quite a bit of money, but even if you take out california, they still have like 50 more states to sell cars too.

[autosm]

Let the market forces decide .

Cast your vote by buying in the USA . I for one am tired of being a second class society .You go just about anywhere in the US and no one drives POS cars .When you can buy a brand new Cavalier for $9000.00 Why not get a new car every 3 years ?

07 Maxima full load is 8k cheeper down there .Not to mention the gst saved on 8000.00$ pays for the travel .

Hyundai has a 10 year war down there and are 25% cheeper??

They say its because the cost of doing business in Canada is more . I am sure the car dealers in Alberta are having a hard time . T&T honda and country hills Toyota must be hurting ???????

I read that when our doller was @ 63c US .That year 2 million cars went to the USA from Canada . What do you think it did to our used car prices ? The prices were inflated . So not only did we pay more for new ,used were also more .

Cars just got 20% cheeper for us and used cars in the USA are even cheeper

350z 2006 with 8000miles for $22000.00

:clap:

[benyl]

Porsche would be out of business if you removed the California market. California is major business for car makers.

[KRyn]

Canada doesn't have enough people for items like cars to cheap. Makes sense why the price is higher here than it's in the U.S.A.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by KRyn
Canada doesn't have enough people for items like cars to cheap. Makes sense why the price is higher here than it's in the U.S.A.
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Redlyne_mr2]

So ridiculous.. people involved in this lawsuit are morons who know nothing about the auto inudstry.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
So ridiculous.. people involved in this lawsuit are morons who know nothing about the auto inudstry. those lawyers might not know anything about the auto industry but they know the law and blocking competition is illegal.

[Redlyne_mr2]

The prices in Canada have always been higher... this has been ongoing for decades.. now all of a sudden because of the hype with the US dollar people seem to think that auto manufacturers in Canada are pocketing more cash. In certain instances yes.. with US manufacturers and vehicles made in north america however the prices are based on supply in demand. I'm not sure why they would go after dealers.. they arent the ones controlling the prices.

[euro_racer]

as good as this lawsuit may be for people who want to save a couple grand buying brand new cars, it would end up hurting everyone else in the end with the re-sale value...i for one would hate to see that happen :thumbsdow


Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I'm not sure why they would go after dealers.. they arent the ones controlling the prices.

:werd: this is true, the mark-up for cars are only like 500-1000$ from the dealer, manufacturer sets the price mostly and dealer makes money on upselling warranty, pro-pack etc...

[Redlyne_mr2]

Auto manufacturers will just end up telling Canada to go screw itself.. alocation of anything decent up here will drop and the US will get all the good cars while we'll be left with grand caravans and corollas. Our market is nothing in the grand scheme of things, if anything its a burden on many of the manufacturers.

[autosm]

Among other things, the lawsuit alleges that the defendants reduced competition by:

* requiring buyers to agree not to export their vehicles
* failing to honour warranties in Canada if vehicles were bought in the U.S.
* threatening or penalizing dealers who failed to follow the automakers' rules



I know this is true .

If this is price fixing than they deserve to be held acountable

[kaput]

.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
...however the prices are based on supply in demand. I'm not sure why they would go after dealers.. they arent the ones controlling the prices.

They are going after the manufacturers who set the MSRP and fine US dealers if they sell to Canadians and tell Canadian dealerships not to honour warranty, NOT the dealers themselves.

My feeling is that car prices aren't based on supply and demand. Granted allocations are less in Canada, but thats based on population and sales numbers. The majority of cars never "sell out," so I don't see how a Cavalier would cost $8000 more in Canada (using an example from above).

Car prices are based off of MSRP set by the manufacturers and in the US you will find a lot of dealerships selling for under MSRP, and here it happens far less often. This sort of thing could be considered supply and demand.
But since the MSRP is set 20-30% higher in Canada, I would deem this inflation.

[mark4091]

Originally posted by autosm
Let the market forces decide .

Cast your vote by buying in the USA . I for one am tired of being a second class society .You go just about anywhere in the US and no one drives POS cars .When you can buy a brand new Cavalier for $9000.00 Why not get a new car every 3 years ?

07 Maxima full load is 8k cheeper down there .Not to mention the gst saved on 8000.00$ pays for the travel .

Hyundai has a 10 year war down there and are 25% cheeper??

They say its because the cost of doing business in Canada is more . I am sure the car dealers in Alberta are having a hard time . T&T honda and country hills Toyota must be hurting ???????

I read that when our doller was @ 63c US .That year 2 million cars went to the USA from Canada . What do you think it did to our used car prices ? The prices were inflated . So not only did we pay more for new ,used were also more .

Cars just got 20% cheeper for us and used cars in the USA are even cheeper

350z 2006 with 8000miles for $22000.00

:clap:
agreed.

[Subwoofah]

anyone going down to the states soon to pick up a car?

[jibber]

The only reason why I'm interested in this thread is because I work in the industry, at a very large GM dealership.

The car I just bought new I had to buy in Canada, because the vehicle isn't sold in the USA at all. (Yes the new smart is being sold in the States, so I will keep one eye on the prices on either side of the border for the smart 451)

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by kaput
If Canada was a burden on the manufacturers they wouldn't be producing and selling their vehicles here...
Many of them don't send up the same models up here that they do to the US.. we dont have Scion, we get way different models than the US... they have 4cyl dodge caravans.. we dont, they have fwd rx350.. we dont.. sooo many models we dont get up here. Mitsubishi is finally going to sell the EVO here but only because it just happened to pass bumper laws.. but they could give a shit wether it sells here or not.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Many of them don't send up the same models up here that they do to the US.. we dont have Scion, we get way different models than the US... they have 4cyl dodge caravans.. we dont, they have fwd rx350.. we dont.. sooo many models we dont get up here. Mitsubishi is finally going to sell the EVO here but only because it just happened to pass bumper laws.. but they could give a shit wether it sells here or not.


How is providing fewer choices a burden? It doesn't cost them anything to not sell a 4cyl dodge caravan here.

If they didn't give a shit if the evo sold here, they wouldn't sell it here. :dunno: I'm not seeing the logic in your posts.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Hakkola



How is providing fewer choices a burden? It doesn't cost them anything to not sell a 4cyl dodge caravan here.

If they didn't give a shit if the evo sold here, they wouldn't sell it here. :dunno: I'm not seeing the logic in your posts.
What's a burden is to provide more choice.. that's the point I was making.. sorry if it didnt make sense:nut: It's not worth it for many of these companies to sell certain vehicles up here. It is a burden to offere a 4cylinder Caravan because they have to put it through crash tests seperate from the V6, they have to put it through cold weather testing, install different alternators, install different weather stripping and larger heater cores. I have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Canada and what I heard was because the new evo was build to cater more to the American market, that everything on it was built larger and less aggressive than the previous Evo and that it was just by chance that it happened to pass Canadian bumper laws. How many Evos will they sell in Canada? A few hundred... thats a mall drop in the bucket.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
anyone going down to the states soon to pick up a car?

*raise hand*

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

What's a burden is to provide more choice.. that's the point I was making.. sorry if it didnt make sense:nut: It's not worth it for many of these companies to sell certain vehicles up here. It is a burden to offere a 4cylinder Caravan because they have to put it through crash tests seperate from the V6, they have to put it through cold weather testing, install different alternators, install different weather stripping and larger heater cores. I have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Canada and what I heard was because the new evo was build to cater more to the American market, that everything on it was built larger and less aggressive than the previous Evo and that it was just by chance that it happened to pass Canadian bumper laws. How many Evos will they sell in Canada? A few hundred... thats a mall drop in the bucket.

I agree with you here, however that's a small example, and it barely costs them anything more to sell these cars in Canada comapred to the U.S. Cold weather testing is not done just for Canada, but also for the European continent, not to mention New York/michigan etc. where millions of people make their homes.

I can see how the price drop can cost the auto industry money, but it is price gouging, we ARE getting ripped off as Canadians. Do the dealerships in Canada have bigger profit margins in Canada? If not, the problem is the manufacturers gouging, and it's wrong. There is absolutely no reason why a 20 000USD car should be sold for 30 000 CAD right now, unless they completely redesigned the model for Canada only, and sell a different car in Canada. It is not like they need to put a new engine in a car because it is 1 degree colder in Toronto and Vancouver than it is in New York and Seattle.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

What's a burden is to provide more choice.. that's the point I was making.. sorry if it didnt make sense:nut: It's not worth it for many of these companies to sell certain vehicles up here. It is a burden to offere a 4cylinder Caravan because they have to put it through crash tests seperate from the V6, they have to put it through cold weather testing, install different alternators, install different weather stripping and larger heater cores. I have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Canada and what I heard was because the new evo was build to cater more to the American market, that everything on it was built larger and less aggressive than the previous Evo and that it was just by chance that it happened to pass Canadian bumper laws. How many Evos will they sell in Canada? A few hundred... thats a mall drop in the bucket.

LOL do you honestly read what you type? A burden to sell to Canada? Are these companies being forced to sell here? Not a chance. They do it because it's profitable and there are millions of potential high income families to compete for.

[autosm]

Raises hand :thumbsup:

No one could have predicted the canadian doller going up so fast but its not joe publics fault that we want to take advantage of a good thing.

The Canadian wholesalers /retailers better wize up fast before they miss out on every one going south.

I say free extended warantees ,0% financing and a bunch of free options to get us to buy here.

They better do it fast before they miss out .


I just remembered somthing .In 02 I purchased a 1800$ car part in the USA .I paid for it with visa .When I got the visa statement it was 2950.$ Canadian . That was the worst feeling .

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


LOL do you honestly read what you type? A burden to sell to Canada? Are these companies being forced to sell here? Not a chance. They do it because it's profitable and there are millions of potential high income families to compete for.
The point that I was trying to make is that our industry is sooooo small in comparison to the states. The lesser numbers sold means that the manufacturers have to jack the prices in order to be able to cover the cost of doing business in Canada. In the states the cost per vehicle sold for a manufacturer is much much less than the cost per vehicle sold in Canada. One of the many reasons for the difference.. I'm not saying the massive gap is justifiable however there are reasons for everything.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

The point that I was trying to make is that our industry is sooooo small in comparison to the states. The lesser numbers sold means that the manufacturers have to jack the prices in order to be able to cover the cost of doing business in Canada. In the states the cost per vehicle sold for a manufacturer is much much less than the cost per vehicle sold in Canada. One of the many reasons for the difference.. I'm not saying the massive gap is justifiable however there are reasons for everything.


well if it is that difficult for dealerships in canada to sell cars without marking prices up, then so be it. shut down all dealership and open the border up, so that at least the US expects us to buy a car down there. we will just have to stick with the riv department and buy cars that are passable here in canada.

if dealership needs to survive, then they have to do something to reverse this south of the buying madness. I like the discount free warranty idea, or how bout the gov steping in with no GST? First lower the price like porsche did, then wavied the GST, add some incentives, free options. it will all add up, as long as they can get it down so the price difference is down to sa 5k for example. Then most will just buy here to save the hassle. 10-15k is way too much money to ignore, thats all.

Dealerships or people, we are all in for the money, the more money we make or the more money we save, we will do anything to make it happen.

This is more to do with how they run their business, sure, sell less but make up the cost on the price. But what about sell for less, but make it up by selling a lot.

How do u think US can sell for much less, they have alot of inventory.

[Skyline_Addict]

Whether there is a justifiable reason for the price difference or not, the market forces will determine the on-going outcome of the market. The fact of the matter is that a $20 000 difference in buying a Subaru WRX STi (my next car!), for example, will likely lead to Canadian consumers heading to south to save what is unarguably a huge chunk of change.
How can the manufacturers and Canadian automotive market expect sensible people to pay that much more for an identical product, when it isn't a far reach to import the exact same car from the states.

a)Sure, there is the burden of having to do all the paper work, fly/drive down to the states, get the car to suit Canadian regulations. If bought in Canada, you don't have to worry about any of those things obviously.

b)Yes, you don't get to build a relationship with your local dealership and get some of the perks that come with that.

c)And if you're that much into patriotism, then again yes, you won't be contributing to the Canadian economy (even if I was, I wouldn't care too much since I'm buying a Japanese product).



Are a) + b) + c) worth $20000 to me? Nope, not even close. Plus I'm far due for a vacation and really would enjoy the drive across the border :).

[BigMass]

One lot in butt-fuck-nowhere California will have more STIs than in the whole of Canada. This not only forces better prices, it forces better service. I've stopped being mad about it and now just do what i can to buy whatever i can from the States. If the companies have the right to jack up prices and have awful service due to the demographics of Canada, then i have the right to not give them my business.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by SilverRex



well if it is that difficult for dealerships in canada to sell cars without marking prices up, then so be it. shut down all dealership and open the border up, so that at least the US expects us to buy a car down there. we will just have to stick with the riv department and buy cars that are passable here in canada.

if dealership needs to survive, then they have to do something to reverse this south of the buying madness. I like the discount free warranty idea, or how bout the gov steping in with no GST? First lower the price like porsche did, then wavied the GST, add some incentives, free options. it will all add up, as long as they can get it down so the price difference is down to sa 5k for example. Then most will just buy here to save the hassle. 10-15k is way too much money to ignore, thats all.

Dealerships or people, we are all in for the money, the more money we make or the more money we save, we will do anything to make it happen.

This is more to do with how they run their business, sure, sell less but make up the cost on the price. But what about sell for less, but make it up by selling a lot.

How do u think US can sell for much less, they have alot of inventory.
You have to be careful when you lower prices... It was a big move for Porsche to do that because it will really hurt resale value.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

You have to be careful when you lower prices... It was a big move for Porsche to do that because it will really hurt resale value.

nothing will be perfect, you give a little to get alittle, mind you no one said anything when prices were risen to where they were now.

After all, this is about purchasing new cars, if you want to benefit all the new car sales every year from now, you must take some punishment in the re-sell department,

unless your planning never to buy any new car for the rest of your life. then again you wouldnt need to sell your car and worry about the resell either.

it goes both ways.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

The point that I was trying to make is that our industry is sooooo small in comparison to the states. The lesser numbers sold means that the manufacturers have to jack the prices in order to be able to cover the cost of doing business in Canada.

So why aren't the prices jacked in Montana then? They have less people in that entire state then we do in Calgary alone.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


So why aren't the prices jacked in Montana then? They have less people in that entire state then we do in Calgary alone.

Look at it this way. There are a lot of stuff you need to do to sell a car in a country. Emission, language, traffic law etc all cost money to comply.

In US, this fixed cost is shared with 300M potential buyers.

In Canada, this fixed cost is share with 30M potential buyers.

So it the cost end up to be $100/car in US, it will be $1000/car in Canada.

That's why population size matters. Same reason why our electronics and cell plans are more expensive.

[Tik-Tok]

I can see it being slightly more expensive to sell in Canada, but not to the extreme's we see.

Emissions are the same for the vehicles sold in the states and Canada as the engines are the same car for car. Safety is the same (except those listed on the RIV), language is only a few placards, the only traffic law difference is the running daytime lights.

For the same car sold in the US as in Canada, with the exception of daytime running lights and french stickers, they are the SAME vehicle.

The only other thing I could think of is actual testing for each of these, but even if Canada requires seperate tests from the US, does a few cars crashed during testing = 10-50% mark-up on the vehicles?

The only reason not to lower the price, as said, is the cost of resale/leases. Which in itself is a very valid reason for the manufacturers, but I don't think they should be punitive to those willing to spend the time/money travelling to the states to get a cheaper car.

[autosm]

On another note the CAD has been a lot higher against the Japanese yen this year .

From 8 yen per CAD to 15 yen per CAD in the last 2 years . thats 40 percent +

Another reason for cars to be cheeper here especially if they are built in Japan . I am sure its simular for Euro built cars as well .

There is no way to argue that we are NOT getting screwed right now .

I am sure a guy driving a Porsche can afford a 8 % drop in his used car price . If he can't he gets no sympathy from me .

As of 2pm today $30000 CAD = $300015 USD in my pocket from Calforex in Calgary.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Xtrema


So it the cost end up to be $100/car in US, it will be $1000/car in Canada.



I know your just using it as example, but dam 1000 dollar more per car still doesnt justify 10k+ difference.

the question is, not why we are getting screwed today, it is more like why we have been getting screwed long ago and no one was doing anything about it.

the weak loonie was just hiding the facts, now the truth is in inevitable.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


So why aren't the prices jacked in Montana then? They have less people in that entire state then we do in Calgary alone.
Its on a country by country basis.. not state by state..

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by SilverRex
the question is, not why we are getting screwed today, it is more like why we have been getting screwed long ago and no one was doing anything about it.

Well the only thing we as Canadian can do about this is to crash our economy. Tax business more so investment leaves.

Cool economy will bring $$$ down and you won't be worrying about expensive cars anymore.

End of the day, we can afford it. Just look at all those 335 on the road. @ $60K a piece, they are as common as $20K Civic.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Xtrema
End of the day, we can afford it. Just look at all those 335 on the road. @ $60K a piece, they are as common as $20K Civic.

You nailed it on the head. If you were selling cars out of your house, would you lower your selling price by $15,000 even though people are still coming to buy your cars? And JUST because prices are lower in the US? No. Because the market can bear it. There was something like an estimated 4 million cars sold in Canada annually, but only about 150,000 imported from the states. Of course that number will rise, but still, they have no incentive to lower prices at all.

And the lawsuit. Yeah that's SOOOO pointless. In the end, the car manufacturers win. As pointed out before, the USA lawsuit was filed in 2003 and is going to court NOW. Yippee. Who cares.

For now, do your part. Stick it to them. Go buy in the US.

[Jackel212]

It is completely the manufaturers, the profits for the dealers are the same now as they were in 2002. For the dealers an average mark up for a car is about 4-8% over invoice price. So on a car that costs $31,865 the invoice price is $28,824. And everybody that walks into a dealership wants at least 1k off, so on that $31,685 car the average profit for canadian dealerships would be about $2,041. Then there is a Pack cost(filling gas tank, detailing, inspection) leaves a profit of $1,691. Keep in mind those cars have to be insured for test drives, repaired if damaged, the buiding must have power and heat, you have to pay a cost every month you keep a car on the lot, the salesperson has to be paid, the technitions that worked on the car must be paid, the lot boy that moved the car around must be paid, the manager that helped with the sale must be paid, the detailer must be paid. 1/2 the time the car has to shipped from another province if they want a different color etc... which the cost has to be covered. So there is not a ton of profit made for the dealers, It is the manufacturers that raise the prices. If you are looking for a used car from the states most canadian dealers can import one for you so you dont need to go through the trouble.

[trdjce10]

Originally posted by Jackel212
It is completely the manufaturers, the profits for the dealers are the same now as they were in 2002. For the dealers an average mark up for a car is about 4-8% over invoice price. So on a car that costs $31,865 the invoice price is $28,824. And everybody that walks into a dealership wants at least 1k off, so on that $31,685 car the average profit for canadian dealerships would be about $2,041. Then there is a Pack cost(filling gas tank, detailing, inspection) leaves a profit of $1,691. Keep in mind those cars have to be insured for test drives, repaired if damaged, the buiding must have power and heat, you have to pay a cost every month you keep a car on the lot, the salesperson has to be paid, the technitions that worked on the car must be paid, the lot boy that moved the car around must be paid, the manager that helped with the sale must be paid, the detailer must be paid. 1/2 the time the car has to shipped from another province if they want a different color etc... which the cost has to be covered. So there is not a ton of profit made for the dealers, It is the manufacturers that raise the prices. If you are looking for a used car from the states most canadian dealers can import one for you so you dont need to go through the trouble.

I thought the customer pays for the PDI and shipping anyway? You are right, though the dealership probably makes next to nothing selling a new car. But it doesn't matter because that new car will be back for service almost certainly. At $100 - $130 per hour, they make a killing. Maybe I'm young and don't go out much, but I don't remember the last time a dealership closes down. All I see are dealerships expanding like crazy.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by trdjce10


I thought the customer pays for the PDI and shipping anyway? You are right, though the dealership probably makes next to nothing selling a new car. But it doesn't matter because that new car will be back for service almost certainly. At $100 - $130 per hour, they make a killing. Maybe I'm young and don't go out much, but I don't remember the last time a dealership closes down. All I see are dealerships expanding like crazy.
I've seen many close down.. youre just in the wrong city.

[Revhard]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict

a)
b)Yes, you don't get to build a relationship with your local dealership and get some of the perks that come with that.

c)
:).

The local dealerships are not worth 1 second of my time.
So many just screw up your car more when you take it in.
Scratch the paint,etc,etc.

I'm still thinking about doing a burnout on Silverhills front step...:guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :whipped:

Buy in the states, even just to save 1500bucks!!!!

[Jackel212]

Originally posted by Revhard


The local dealerships are not worth 1 second of my time.
So many just screw up your car more when you take it in.
Scratch the paint,etc,etc.

I'm still thinking about doing a burnout on Silverhills front step...:guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :whipped:

Buy in the states, even just to save 1500bucks!!!!

LOL, you guys are nuts if you think it is cheaper in the States, do some research! The MSRP may be lower but if you live in Canada ill tell you everything you must take into account. First you MUST pay cash, your other option is to get a loan from the bank and bring the cash, in which you might pay about 8% interest instead of 1.5 from a dealer. on a $30,000 vehicle the savings based on those interest rates alone will be $4,841. When you bring a vehicle from the states you MUST pay Canadian GST at the border on top of the American sales tax you have already payed, so for that $30,000 vehicle that is another $1800. The border requires the bill of Sale 72 Hours before you plan on transporting the vehicle accross or there is another $500 fine. You have to complete a form from RIV which will cost $200. We have different laws like bumper, daytime running lights, instrtument cluster, etc... which must be changed to meet Canadian laws all at your cost. The vehicles must also incur an out of province inspection to become legal in your province at your cost once again. Vehicles must also pay import duties which means they charge you to import based on a percentage of the MSRP, it changes from car to car so you have to do some research to find out what it would be for what you want to buy. Also most manufacturers are suspending warranty for a period of time in which if anything goes wrong you must drive or get towed back to the US, you must check with a local dealer to find out what they do with there warranty. So unless you have the cash laying around and are purchasing a vehicle valued more than $50,000 you are not saving anything. Also your vehicle will be marked as a Grey market car, you will have lower resale value and no support from any manufacturer or program such as CAMVAP or AMVIC. One last thing to, sorry this is such a long post guys, but if you are looking to lease, if you do some comparasins on monthly lease pricing for a certain car for here and the states they are in most cases almost identical because of there lower resale value ex. Canadian lease monthly cost on a Equinox is 408/month, an American Equinox with the lower MSRP is $410/month, all because of the lower resale value.

[R!zz0]

I think it already started. Stampede Toyota on 32nd is selling their 2007 Camry for $23,000(4 Cyl) and 2008 Camry with leather for $26,000 (4 Cyl) Tax in.

Thats a pretty good price for a Camry. My Brother in law bought an 2007 Corolla CE for just under $24,000.

[STI]

Originally posted by R!zz0
I think it already started. Stampede Toyota on 32nd is selling their 2007 Camry for $23,000(4 Cyl) and 2008 Camry with leather for $26,000 (4 Cyl) Tax in.

Thats a pretty good price for a Camry. My Brother in law bought an 2007 Corolla CE for just under $24,000.
Holy cow if that is true then I will be selling my car...

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Jackel212


LOL, you guys are nuts if you think it is cheaper in the States,

It is cheaper. We saved $16,000 on a van after all the taxes. You need to look it over again and quit being such a noob.

[Jackel212]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


It is cheaper. We saved $16,000 on a van after all the taxes. You need to look it over again and quit being such a noob.

HAHA Vans are only like 33K here for a loaded one, so you got yours for 17?? unless it was used? and this is all the information I could find about all the new reprecutions and laws they are putting into place, you can find this all on the internet buddy, go look it up if you do not believe me.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Jackel212


HAHA Vans are only like 33K here for a loaded one, so you got yours for 17??

the base model toyota sienna (http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/9/wo/Home.Vehicles.Go.Sienna-ywEjfahhjj3Diis5tY09QM/3.11?v151060e%2ehtml) starts at $32k and the honda odyssey (http://honda.ca/HondaCA2006/BuildYourHonda/Step1?L=E&ModelName=Odyssey&yr=2007) starts at $33k. both vans fully loaded are well above $50k. thanks for coming out.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Jackel212


LOL, you guys are nuts if you think it is cheaper in the States, do some research! The MSRP may be lower but if you live in Canada ill tell you everything you must take into account. First you MUST pay cash, your other option is to get a loan from the bank and bring the cash, in which you might pay about 8% interest instead of 1.5 from a dealer. on a $30,000 vehicle the savings based on those interest rates alone will be $4,841. When you bring a vehicle from the states you MUST pay Canadian GST at the border on top of the American sales tax you have already payed, so for that $30,000 vehicle that is another $1800. The border requires the bill of Sale 72 Hours before you plan on transporting the vehicle accross or there is another $500 fine. You have to complete a form from RIV which will cost $200. We have different laws like bumper, daytime running lights, instrtument cluster, etc... which must be changed to meet Canadian laws all at your cost. The vehicles must also incur an out of province inspection to become legal in your province at your cost once again. Vehicles must also pay import duties which means they charge you to import based on a percentage of the MSRP, it changes from car to car so you have to do some research to find out what it would be for what you want to buy. Also most manufacturers are suspending warranty for a period of time in which if anything goes wrong you must drive or get towed back to the US, you must check with a local dealer to find out what they do with there warranty. So unless you have the cash laying around and are purchasing a vehicle valued more than $50,000 you are not saving anything. Also your vehicle will be marked as a Grey market car, you will have lower resale value and no support from any manufacturer or program such as CAMVAP or AMVIC. One last thing to, sorry this is such a long post guys, but if you are looking to lease, if you do some comparasins on monthly lease pricing for a certain car for here and the states they are in most cases almost identical because of there lower resale value ex. Canadian lease monthly cost on a Equinox is 408/month, an American Equinox with the lower MSRP is $410/month, all because of the lower resale value.

That was hard to read.

But no matter how you put it, it's still cheaper on the majority of cars. If that wasn't the case, then why are so many people importing? LOL

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Jackel212


HAHA Vans are only like 33K here for a loaded one, so you got yours for 17?? unless it was used? and this is all the information I could find about all the new reprecutions and laws they are putting into place, you can find this all on the internet buddy, go look it up if you do not believe me.

WRONG.

US 328i - 32 000
Can 328i - 41 000

us Crossfire roadster lmt- 35 645
Can Crossfire roadster lmt- 51 900

Just two random examples, one car from Euro brand, one American brand.

HUGE difference. Look up vans and other cars if you want, there is a HUGE disparity in price difference across most models.

[LiquidK]

im considering going to the states, for some reason i want a scion tc... maybe thats just because ive never seen one in calgary

[autosm]

2007 350z is about 10k less depending on what you want . They have brand new models that start at 28000.00 USD + 6% duty and 6% GST, thats about what you would pay for a used 04/05/06 here . I am hoping to get a used 07 for less than 25000.00


20000.00 US cost 19732.00 Canadian on friday .

If it goes to 1.05 as predicted there will be bus loads of people going to the US .

[Ekliptix]

Originally posted by Hakkola


WRONG.

US 328i - 32 000
Can 328i - 41 000

us Crossfire roadster lmt- 35 645
Can Crossfire roadster lmt- 51 900

Just two random examples, one car from Euro brand, one American brand.

HUGE difference. Look up vans and other cars if you want, there is a HUGE disparity in price difference across most models.

I was thinking getting a Crossfire for just that reason, the huge price gap. I didn't because there is zero warrenty on a chrysler/dodge vehicle one it's imported. That's why no one is bringing the crossfires in, or vipers either.

Even without the warrenty, it may be worth it.

[tentacles]

I wonder when the manufactures and dealers are going to do something to stop the imports. They stand to lose a lot of money. Probably pressure the government to shut down the RIV program and ban imports completely.

[autosm]

Originally posted by tentacles
I wonder when the manufactures and dealers are going to do something to stop the imports. They stand to lose a lot of money. Probably pressure the government to shut down the RIV program and ban imports completely.

The minister of finance has called on retailers to stop over charging Canadians . He commented specifically on the price of cars saying we are being over charged . I don't think it will happen .

The only thing they can do is make prices a bit closer

[tentacles]

The government standing up for the consumer against the manufacturer/dealer lobby? :rofl:

Gotta remember the manufacturers ( 'Merkin and Japanese) still employ a lot of people out east, and car dealerships are always the most politically connected bunch. They have the media in their pocket too - flip through a paper and guess how much of their(the paper's) advertising revenue comes from local car dealerships (not to mention the manufacturers).

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by LiquidK
im considering going to the states, for some reason i want a scion tc... maybe thats just because ive never seen one in calgary

Because the 2005 and 2006 tC's are on the RIV inadmissable list... I'm curious about the 2007 myself, is it allowed, or have they not updated their list for it yet?

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by gpomp


the base model toyota sienna (http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/9/wo/Home.Vehicles.Go.Sienna-ywEjfahhjj3Diis5tY09QM/3.11?v151060e%2ehtml) starts at $32k and the honda odyssey (http://honda.ca/HondaCA2006/BuildYourHonda/Step1?L=E&ModelName=Odyssey&yr=2007) starts at $33k. both vans fully loaded are well above $50k. thanks for coming out.

Ding Ding. It is a fully loaded Toyota with options not even available here in Canada.

[autosm]

Originally posted by tentacles
The government standing up for the consumer against the manufacturer/dealer lobby? :rofl:

Gotta remember the manufacturers ( 'Merkin and Japanese) still employ a lot of people out east, and car dealerships are always the most politically connected bunch. They have the media in their pocket too - flip through a paper and guess how much of their(the paper's) advertising revenue comes from local car dealerships (not to mention the manufacturers).

Well they better do somthing before I come back with two new units this winter .

Its like 3 cars for the price of two down there .

[evoXfan]

STI in US $33.5k (http://www.subaru.com/shop/configurator/step2.jsp?model=IMPREZAWRX&trim=STI)

STI in Canada $49k (http://www.subaru.ca/PricingAccessories01.asp?WebPageID=6556)

i would compare Evo but we don't have it here... yet... i do have deposit down for the evo x but with the dollar on par, i dunno if the price is worth it... bottom line... canadians are getting fucked

[denbert]

Well I was just in LA and tried to get an A3, they denied me due to 'canadian dealers' was their response.

US price A3 + Premium Pkg + Sunroof + Ipod link + PDI= 30K

Can price is 35K basic without anything.....

[kaput]

.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Jackel212
LOL, you guys are nuts if you think it is cheaper in the States, do some research! The MSRP may be lower but if you live in Canada ill tell you everything you must take into account. First you MUST pay cash, your other option is to get a loan from the bank and bring the cash, in which you might pay about 8% interest instead of 1.5 from a dealer. on a $30,000 vehicle the savings based on those interest rates alone will be $4,841.

When you bring a vehicle from the states you MUST pay Canadian GST at the border on top of the American sales tax you have already payed, so for that $30,000 vehicle that is another $1800.

The border requires the bill of Sale 72 Hours before you plan on transporting the vehicle accross or there is another $500 fine.

You have to complete a form from RIV which will cost $200. We have different laws like bumper, daytime running lights, instrtument cluster, etc... which must be changed to meet Canadian laws all at your cost. The vehicles must also incur an out of province inspection to become legal in your province at your cost once again.

Vehicles must also pay import duties which means they charge you to import based on a percentage of the MSRP, it changes from car to car so you have to do some research to find out what it would be for what you want to buy.

Also most manufacturers are suspending warranty for a period of time in which if anything goes wrong you must drive or get towed back to the US, you must check with a local dealer to find out what they do with there warranty. So unless you have the cash laying around and are purchasing a vehicle valued more than $50,000 you are not saving anything.

Also your vehicle will be marked as a Grey market car, you will have lower resale value and no support from any manufacturer or program such as CAMVAP or AMVIC. One last thing to, sorry this is such a long post guys, but if you are looking to lease, if you do some comparasins on monthly lease pricing for a certain car for here and the states they are in most cases almost identical because of there lower resale value ex. Canadian lease monthly cost on a Equinox is 408/month, an American Equinox with the lower MSRP is $410/month, all because of the lower resale value.

It will not work for everyone or every vehicle.

If you don't have the cash, yes, you saving is minimal.

You don't have to pay American sales tax, but you do have to pay GST.

Yes, the cross border work will take some time and some money. But that's usually less than $1000.

Warranty? Well, my 03 Altima has 0 warranty related repairs and just 1 safety recall. So warranty isn't a concern for most and the saving should pay for some repair work if needed.

Lower resale value? Sure but consider you pay less to start with, isn't that expected? And really, with all the American models flooding the used market, doesn't that mean your Canadian bought model has a lower resale as well? So you lose even more?

My guess is, depending on model, you'll save at least $10K for a week of work. So unless you make more than $20K a week, it's well worth your time.


Originally posted by kaput
Why do you have to tell them you're Canadian? I've never bought a new vehicle before but if you are paying with cash, can't you just hand over the money, sign the dotted line and drive away?

Probably you'll have to show ID and a draft from Canadian bank. I don't think you can just prop some cash down and drive away due to money laundering laws.

[yellowsnow]

I think the dealerships are refusing to lower prices, because they have to think of the PAST and the FUTURE. I agree, right now, cars are cheaper in the states. because customers who bought cars from a dealership in the last few years, they are the ones who will suffer when it comes to the resale value. That's gonna piss them off, and customer loyatly will suffer as well. Also, there are tons of leased vehicles out there, if they lower a car, by say $5000, then the residual is gonna go down $5000. that equals one pissed off customer. Customer loyalty is huge in the car business, lower the prices of current cars is essentially taking money away from people who purchased that brand already.

secondly you look at the future. If companies were to lower prices to be more evenly matched with US companies, what happens when the CAD dollar goes down again. And I'm sure prices will rise pretty fast if that happens. Now you have people complaining on why prices are going up. let's say you're looking at a honda civic, the price drops from $25k, to $20k because of the high CAD dollar. Now the CAD drops, and the price rises back to $25k. People aren't going to find that price attractive anymore at all. why would they pay another $5k, because of the US economy.

I say let the CAD car companies keep the prices the same, and for anyone wanting to go to the states to save a few G, good on them. The only thing that bugs me is that some car manufacturers don't honor cross boarder warranty work

[denbert]

What really grinds me is that how the car conglomerates manipulate the currency and labor in the global economy and then cry foul when the consumers are trying to do the same. How many times to they move manufacturing to 2nd world countries to save money? Don't tell me they don't hedge against the currencies for their own purposes.

And yes I did have to show ID.

[Supa Dexta]

I can't see how customers can be pissed.. sure they can be a bit upset, but if you buy a house and the market drops, thats your luck, same as if you buy and it booms, well way to go thats life..

[SilverRex]

^^^ I agree,

cant please everyone all at the same time, there will always be people in the market to buy, so if price drops, yay to the buyer and nah to the seller, and vice versa if price stays or raises.

[denbert]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
I can't see how customers can be pissed.. sure they can be a bit upset, but if you buy a house and the market drops, thats your luck, same as if you buy and it booms, well way to go thats life..

It the fact that the dealers & manufactures are trying to inhibit your ability too buy. Sure you can buy a house when it drops, but what if the real estate board or city of calgary, all of a sudden says no you can't buy now in this are because it's too low. You have to buy in this area where the prices are higher to protect their own interests.

[gpomp]

^exactly.

[tomt64]

Seems to me there are Canuck salesmen in this thread :drama:

The Lex LS460 [or 600h dont remember which] you save 42k, I *think* thats worth it.

You see so many US pre owned cars in the dealerships around here going for CAD pre owned prices, and people pay up when they could of just gone down themselves to save a lot of dough.

"When you bring a vehicle from the states you MUST pay Canadian GST at the border on top of the American sales tax you have already payed, so for that $30,000 vehicle that is another $1800. The border requires the bill of Sale 72 Hours before you plan on transporting the vehicle accross or there is another $500 fine. You have to complete a form from RIV which will cost $200. We have different laws like bumper, daytime running lights, instrtument cluster, etc... which must be changed to meet Canadian laws all at your cost. The vehicles must also incur an out of province inspection to become legal in your province at your cost once again."

You dont have to pay US sales tax if you prove you are living in Canada just the GST when you cross the border. These fines for not having paperwork.... thanks for pointing them out bro, people will double check that they have them so they dont get fined :thumbsup:
If the car is being sold in Canada, it has passed the Canuck bumper test [w/e you wanna call it]. Daytime running lights is a doddle to do and the instrument cluster already has KM's on it, who told you that you need a CAD cluster? :nut:
If you buy the car brand new, I think it may just pass the OOP without much hassle at all.

Jackel either 1: You are a pissed off salesman or 2: you just bought a car for a lot more than you should have paid. :cry:

[autosm]

You might have to pay state sales tax . Oregon and Washington you will NOT have to . CA and AZ I think you will have to unless its a private sale . PST will apply if you are not in Alberta.

I don't think you have to export the car from the US if you never bring it back into the US??

The GST will be less because you paid less .

[autosm]

Originally posted by tentacles
The government standing up for the consumer against the manufacturer/dealer lobby? :rofl:

Gotta remember the manufacturers ( 'Merkin and Japanese) still employ a lot of people out east, and car dealerships are always the most politically connected bunch. They have the media in their pocket too - flip through a paper and guess how much of their(the paper's) advertising revenue comes from local car dealerships (not to mention the manufacturers).



Looks like help to me http://www.riv.ca/