Network Marketing, good money...

[shane]

hi there i recently joined a netwrk marketing group for 400$ that is a 100% tax write off
And am doing fairly well!!

anyone esle done any network mareting... and how r u doin?

is the one your in easy or hard,?

[Kaos]

My Fiance's doing pretty well. Her network marketing company gives her an allowance for a Mercedes Benz.

[Canmorite]

Network Marketing = MLM's?

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Network Marketing = MLM's?

kinda sounds like it..:dunno:

[broken_legs]

hahaha

I justhad a friend try and sign me up


here is the conversation we had:


Friend:
Hey, how's it going? I just wanted to drop you a line and tell you about something I was shown, and am now a part of. It is a very simplistic way to make alot of money on the side. Check out my webpage at www.fhtmca.com/****** and watch the video presentation. It is a chance to make some real money, no jokes. Give me a call if you are interested. ***-****.


Me:
WTF ******!

Are you at the top of the Pyramid?


Friend:
WTF **Broken_Legs**?

No, pyramids are illegal, this is 100% legit.



Me:
Man,

I read the website its totally a pyramid...

You make money when other people under you sell stuff, that is the definition of Pyramid

What are the products you sell anyways? Who are the clients? Where is your inventory?



Friend:
You sell services that people use everyday, cell phone connection, interenet, cable, etc. You actually make a ton more money just getting people to sign up, not selling products. It nice cause u don't have an inventory of shit to sell. You get paid for people to sign up.


So he paid 400 dollars to get other people to pay 400 dollars so he can get a fraction of that 400 dollars

I don't think he understands what pyramid means

The video on that website shows a freaking pyramid when its explaining how you make money LOL

[shane]

yea but think about it,, you think your gonna get to the top, of werever your working it is definiatly a pyramiid,,

thew ceo is at the top and you can never match him, unless you work for like 40 years,

and network marketing, everyo thinks is b.s if its tax writeoffable why not give it a try

[shane]

brocken legs i dont think you un\derstand, untill youve come to a meeting,

thn youll know whatsup,

[Antonito]

Originally posted by shane
and network marketing, everyo thinks is b.s if its tax writeoffable why not give it a try

Because some of us don't want to alienate all our friends and family :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by shane
yea but think about it,, you think your gonna get to the top, of werever your working it is definiatly a pyramiid,,

thew ceo is at the top and you can never match him, unless you work for like 40 years,

and network marketing, everyo thinks is b.s if its tax writeoffable why not give it a try

How does the company make money aside from collecting $400 from vulnerable and gullible people?

Most CEOs don't make more money if there are more employees under them. Large companies has investors that benefit from the profits of the company. Also CEOs don't charge employees $400 to work under them.

[jdmXSI]

Can someone say Quixtar:D lol

[New2Talon]

It is good money for the first bit, but then you run out of "new recruits". I'm 99% sure I know the company you are working for (OP) and other than the $400 joining fee there isn't very many ways to make additional money. There was talk of the US services expanding into Canada, but last time I checked that hadn't happened yet. Have they started to offer any more of their "services" yet? Long distance phoning, internet service, disney phones etc?


In theory there is HUGE potential to make money as advertising/marketing has almost unlimited potential, but I was never able to see how that money would ever make it into my pockets w/o me harassing every friend/coworker/friends friends/relavtives etc. that I know.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by shane
brocken legs i dont think you un\derstand, untill youve come to a meeting,

thn youll know whatsup,


Is this one of those meetings when everyone drinks punch at the end and then takes a nap?

[shane]

i was in quixstar lol it sucked ASS made like 10$

and the one im in is not good money for the first bit you get some but once you work your way up to were i am now then the money gets good, ive been in for like 2 months


yea but i dont really harass people, i did for the first bit ill admit,, lol, then i started making money, and then friends and other people saw it was true s now there all signiung up,

yes we got 2 more services, and more are being expected lol ofcourse

broken legs

no lol

if whoever just wants to say shit about it, thats cool, have your appinions, but im looking for people innterested want to know more, and people who have been in some marketing groups, and how sucsessfull they got / or are

[Toms-SC]

scam

[max_boost]

^^^

:werd:

[Audio_Rookie]

so, if your paying 400$..to get a package which basically says sell this same thing for 400$.

I have looked through all of this.

Lets say you yourself make 50% of that 400$

That means no matter what eventually 2x the people have to get screwed over as opposed to those that make money.

And all it is is a website right? that sells a package for a website thats basically the same.

richjerk.com or whatever it is is something similar.

Its a big scam, yes you can make money but your gonna fuck over people in the end.

[LiquidK]

.... lol
this is probably the most obvious pyramid scheme i've seen, except quixtar
a quixtar toaster anyone?

[shane]

yo dont sell anything for 400$....

and you dont get paid out of the 400$
if you knew how it worked its perfectly logical,

these companys that we our advertising for give us a bonus for advertising sorta thing,,

instead of spending 2 milion dollers to make a commercial

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by shane
yo dont sell anything for 400$....

and you dont get paid out of the 400$
if you knew how it worked its perfectly logical,

these companys that we our advertising for give us a bonus for advertising sorta thing,,

instead of spending 2 milion dollers to make a commercial

The only people who will benefit from this is the larger companies you are selling for, and the guys at the top.

You'd be better off (financially) working at a job and spending that time moving up within the company, or going to school to eventually get a better job.

MLMs are a waste of time. Every person I've seen join one, eventually quits. Don't waste your time.

[Super_Geo]

o477Gix30aE

Ah but if it's working for you, Shane, keep at 'er... judging from your posts it sounds like you'd be flipping burgers or pumping gas otherwise.

[Toms-SC]

holy shit Geo :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[mark4091]

Man that was a good episode hahaha

[slick2404]

:banghead:

[HoisinSauce]

:D

Fortune pays out rather well actually.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by shane
...if its tax writeoffable why not give it a try

Care to explain how any money you make is 100% write-off?

[shane]

the money you invest into the buisness is a write the 400$ to get started

HoisinSauce

and thank you yes they pay off fairly well,,

ive been in many other group and they were all shit, thisone actually good

READ rich dad poor dad
Canmorite

i do have a job still for security, but soon im gonnna quit,

[Super_Geo]

Ok a few things:

1) Who cares if it's a tax write-off? You do know that you won't get all $400 back, right? Depending on your tax bracket you'll be lucky to get $120 of that $400 back...

2) The test of whether or not it's a pyramid scheme is this: If people stop signing up for $400 (ie: when you run out of idiots), does your pay stay the same or drop?

3) What kind of vertical mobility is there in this position of yours? Are you still going to be a pyramid builder at age 40?

[rmk]

You need to find another way to make money. I feel bad for good people who get sucked in and believe that garbage.

:thumbsdow

[shane]

lol allright, i have my plans, but for now this mopney is awsome
and have you ever been in anything like this,, other than quixstar
everyones been in quixstar
i dont believe you can say anything till youve seen it,

[Weapon_R]

What company do you work for?

[jdmXSI]

How much $$$$ have you made in the past 2 months with this company? I dont wanna hear "Well thats kinda personal" Be honest, you want people to join dont ya?

[shane]

i work for fhtm, as some people have allready guessed,
and ill be honest, at first sriously it was pretty hard, but i got "trained" i now am bringing many people to the meetings and those people are bringing there friends to, its getting easier
first month i made prob 125 lol i no that sucks, but its prob because i sucked at what i was doing, now ive prob made 2700
and i am looking forward to that going up!
i am still brook from the amount of bills i have and i am still indept and still have a job
but soon enought i believe this company will make me sucessfull, and will show me alot more cashflow

[shane]

and i care that itrs a write off, becuase then i just get more money back when i do my taxes..

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by shane
brocken legs i dont think you un\derstand, untill youve come to a meeting,

thn youll know whatsup,

Ive been to the meetings and they are straight up bullshit. There are usually about 30 people (25 of which are already part of the scheme) packed into some guys 1000 sq ft house who is trying to convince us how he made 200,000 last year and you too could make the same if you sign up now and start harassing all your family and friends to sign up under you.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by shane
READ rich dad poor dad
Canmorite


Rich Dad Poor Dad sucked :thumbsdow

I learned more from my financial planning textbooks.

[Graham_A_M]

Nice to see your using Beyond.ca as a recruiting medium. :rolleyes:

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by shane
i work for fhtm, as some people have allready guessed,
and ill be honest, at first sriously it was pretty hard, but i got "trained" i now am bringing many people to the meetings and those people are bringing there friends to, its getting easier
first month i made prob 125 lol i no that sucks, but its prob because i sucked at what i was doing, now ive prob made 2700
and i am looking forward to that going up!
i am still brook from the amount of bills i have and i am still indept and still have a job
but soon enought i believe this company will make me sucessfull, and will show me alot more cashflow

if you present your arguments/thoughts/ideas in writing as well as you do when speaking, how do you manage to recruit so many people?

[khtm]

Man I wish I could make $3k in 2 months. That is indeed "awesome mopney".

Where do I sign up?

</sarcasm>

[mo_money2supe]

Originally posted by khtm
Man I wish I could make $3k in 2 months. That is indeed "awesome money."

Where do I sign up?

</sarcasm>

Well, sonny, you see, all you need to do is harass every single one of your friends and family members until they cough up the $400 to join, and once they do the same, and then their recruits do the same, you might earn the amazing $2700/2 months that Shane has been talking about. Isn't it obvious?

Not many friends, you might say? Well, there's always neighbours, co-workers, *ahem* Beyond.ca, the possibilities are endless! By the time you're 40 and your whole family has left you and all your neighbours have moved away, and you're now making the big bucks of perhaps $2700/month, you'll be in the big leagues!!! Sucks for them that they didn't get a chance to join in on this awesome schem...*ahem* "opportunity!"

[Schwa]

^ I don't understand what you're saying. All your sentences appear to be formed correctly and your words seem to have the correct number of vowels.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by shane
i work for fhtm, as some people have allready guessed,
and ill be honest, at first sriously it was pretty hard, but i got &quot;trained&quot; i now am bringing many people to the meetings and those people are bringing there friends to, its getting easier
first month i made prob 125 lol i no that sucks, but its prob because i sucked at what i was doing, now ive prob made 2700
and i am looking forward to that going up!
i am still brook from the amount of bills i have and i am still indept and still have a job
but soon enought i believe this company will make me sucessfull , and will show me alot more cashflow

How? Do they teach you grade 1 English as part of the $400?

[HoisinSauce]

Network marketing is not for everyone. There's lots of us out there who are good at it, make good money, and help our friends (who have the drive) make good money. But again, it's definitely not for everyone and something like 95% of all people who try it fail. Why? Because no networking company is a free ride. It's damn hard work.

Shane, unfortunately, you've started off on a really poor route. Entertaining the idea of an MLM/direct sales/networking company, whatever you want to call it, over a forum is an open invitation for negative criticism.

Cut your losses while you can and stop fighting against people's opinion.

To everyone else, no one from FHTM needs to convince you of the value in this type of system. Those who have seen it, who have the desire and drive, can make it happen. Those who haven't (or even those who have) who think of it as a scam, well, that's your opinion and reasoning. No one is twisting your arm to sign up.

[Super_Geo]

^ So basically, if you work hard enough you can be at the top of a small pyramid.

Hoisin, let me ask you this: If your clientelle stops growing, what happens to your pay? Do you always need to find more people to sign up?

[HoisinSauce]

FHTM alots two types of payment:

1. Upfront referral bonus - this is the recruitment pay. And you're right, this form of payment stops if recruitment stops. What you're assuming, though, is that recruitment will stop at some point or another. Why would it? Recruitment hasn't stopped for Quixtar, WFG, Primerica, etc and they've been around forever.

Is this a case of "the bigger sucker"? Hardly. The problem is that people fail to look at their participation in a direct sales company as a self owned and operated business. Most people think of it as a job or some sort of time commitment that cranes towards a promise. These people are operating on hope. Hope doesn't make a business fly. What makes a business fly is dedication to the products and services, marketing experience and the ability to give your downline, aka. "recruits", the tools and education they need to continue their success.

2. Passive income - ahh, yes, the glorified passive income. This is the money that all these direct sales companies tout as the income that's going to retire you. You know, earn a piece of everyone's sales. Sounds too good to be true? Yeah, for most people, it is. For the select few who are able to educate their downline, it's a reality.

Where most people fail here is when they work at it casually for a year (let's say a total of 50 hours was invested over the course of this year. IMHO, that sounds about right) then expect to get thousands of $$$ from that effort. Wrong, dead wrong. To make the type of passive income that you can live off of, you need an active sales network of hundreds/thousands of individual sales. This is why it's so important to help your downline achieve success in their own businesses.

So to answer your question: Yes, I would still get paid if people stopped recruiting, just not as much.

Now a question to you: What exactly do you define a pyramid as? FYI, pyramids are illegal.

Here's a hint: Look up the head of Vancouver's Crime Stopper's program. His name is Guy Draper.

[Toms-SC]

:rofl: I think I can I think I can I think I can

[Super_Geo]

So if you stop recruiting, your 'passive income' is a cut of the revenue generated form your underling's recruits, right? What if recruitment stops altogether? Because as far as I can tell, that's the main (if not only) income stream for this business.

What sales are actually being made? What products are being sold? Who's buying them? Other recruits, or the general public?

You said it right there in your post: many people join and fail. I'd be interested to see a breakdown on that: how many people succeed, and how many people fail (miserably). How does that compare to a normal job scenario (ie: what's the retention rate of a typical job vs. retention rate of network marketing)? And what does that say about the type of people being targeted to join? Because even if someone does fail and drop out, he's put in $400 which trickles its way back up the ladder.

I'm not at all trying to flame you, Hoisin... it seems like you understand the system and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

Whereas with Shane... fuck, where do you even start. How do you put your pants on in the morning without breaking your legs?

[HoisinSauce]

Hey Geo,

I have to run off for lunch right now.

I'll come back later in the evening to further answer your questions.

If curiosity gets the best of you, feel free to call me. I won't pitch the system to you, but I'll explain it further.

PM'd.

[shane]

same, but yea its not in somwones house lol,, that would suck, and ita all good you guys dont understand, there will be a pint were i dont have to recruit people i help and train the people under me, sorta,
but its all good, i have my resouces

[HoisinSauce]

^:english:

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by shane
same, but yea its not in somwones house lol,, that would suck, and ita all good you guys dont understand, there will be a pint were i dont have to recruit people i help and train the people under me, sorta,
but its all good, i have my resouces

Hoping all the while that your business doesn't turn to shit over-night like what happened to how many of my 'cross-lines' when I was in Quixtar. I always laughed when they said "Im at the point where I can just walk away from my business" And so they did, only to come back to a few disgruntled people that were on the verge of quitting themselves... and whats next? back to square one the head-honcho makes a swing from the 'retired' lifestyle back to job hunting again. Just like my old dumbass upline that considered himself retired at 24 thats to this business, only to be living off of his credit cards the whole time and end up in SO much debt that his civic was repo'ed, and he was evicted from that estate that he rented (ahem... I mean) owned :rofl:
This has happend four seperate times, each time he comes crawling back to the job world since his MLM empire isn't making quite the coin he thought it would. He's been in it 7 years and counting, still a broke ass loser. :)

These people closer to the top of the pyramid are more like cheerleaders then anything, flashing around the bling so YOU TOO CAN BE LIKE THAT SOMEDAY...

They may as well have a carrot at the end of a stick at these motivational seminars. :banghead:

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M


These people closer to the top of the pyramid are more like cheerleaders then anything, flashing around the bling so YOU TOO CAN BE LIKE THAT SOMEDAY...

They may as well have a carrot at the end of a stick at these motivational seminars. :banghead:

thats what I noticed too, most of the people at these seminars look like money with their flashy clothes and stuff, but when you actually talk to them and see how they live you quickly realize that most of them are broke as hell.

[shane]

so obviously hoisein know alot more about this then i do
which is good, he knows whats up
pceeee

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by shane
ita all good you guys dont understand, there will be a pint were i dont have to recruit people i help and train the people under me, sorta,
but its all good, i have my resouces

Yes, oh you sure will, Shane...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/26/mcdonalds,0.jpg

[HoisinSauce]

Like I said, there's a lot of losers in the MLM world.

Personally, I don't have any illusions of grandeur. I'm only interested in two things:

1. Creating some sort of passive income, whether it be $500/mo or $5000/mo, the later preferred of course.

I spend a lot of time working on creating vehicles for passive income. Whether it be commercial realestate, stocks (US based ATM), event hosting, you name it. I'll do whatever it takes to make a fundamental change in how I earn money. So far so good.

IME/IMO, an MLM is just another mode with the potential to create royalty pay.

2. To help my downline (many of which are my friends) achieve the same.

This is the tricky part, but I am there for them and I'm more than willing to devote my time and efforts to those who work with me, whether it be on this venture or a more mainstream investment project.

Broke ass upline? Sorry, but the guys who prey on the hope of others in order to turn a quick dollar are usually the ones who have to make up stories and lies to recruit.

[HoisinSauce]

I should also mention something important:

In the end, this type of industry IS a marketing/sales business. Your MAIN source of revenue comes from sales of product, NOT recruits.

To put it straight, if the MLM has a garbage product, you won't be able to sell it, and thus, you won't get paid for it.

Good MLM's, and there are several, have good products. People seem to forget that when they're living up the hype of their system.

[drew_goring]

Originally posted by HoisinSauce
I should also mention something important:

In the end, this type of industry IS a marketing/sales business. Your MAIN source of revenue comes from sales of product, NOT recruits.

To put it straight, if the MLM has a garbage product, you won't be able to sell it, and thus, you won't get paid for it.

Good MLM's, and there are several, have good products. People seem to forget that when they're living up the hype of their system.

All the "product" of a MLM is, is a way to circumvent the "pyramid scheme".

[sputnik]

Originally posted by drew_goring


All the &quot;product&quot; of a MLM is, is a way to circumvent the &quot;pyramid scheme&quot;.

Exactly.

MLM products are always overpriced low quality crap.

Find me an MLM that has a good product that is better and cheaper than something I can buy at the store and I will be a convert.

[Graham_A_M]

^ Yeah, I thought it was hilarious when I was a single guy, my budget was $60/month on regular stuff, like dishwashing detergent, soap, protein bars... but not including food, beer, etc..
the month I got involved in the business, my $50 turned into $300 FAST.
Apparently I was "Saving" money though, since I was "buying from my own business"

If I had my own store/eMarket type business and the soap I was selling was $26/per six pack, and it wasn't any better then the stuff at the grocery mart thats there for $4/six pack, I'd be closing up shop pretty fast.
I guess its not surprising in that manner that the average income for "active" quixtar "IBO's (Independant Business Owner's)" is $26/month. :rofl:


Looking back at the years I spent in Quixtar, I'm amazed at how great of a job I did of Alienating my friends & family.... it was like I was Ted Bundy. :dunno:
All the while my uplines and "mentors" on tape & CD: said "their NOT your friends if they dont at least buy through you, and support you"
so I listened and watched my phone ring less and less every week (literally).
These were always the friends that I could call at any hour in the morning or night, and they'd be happy to get me out of a pinch.
But according to my upline that "Cared" about me, they were a bunch of back-stabbers that didn't want me to succeed, apparently they "resented me because I was becoming what they didn't have the guts too do" :nut:

After I left the business, the former "loving" upline wouldn't even give me the time of day. Those hateful friends that weren't really friends welcomed me back with open arms.

Just amazing the psychology behind these businesses. Just as clever as marketing guru's at Harley Davidson or the cigarette companies. :clap:

[A790]

As mentioned before, MLM's aren't for everyone. In June I left my "day-job" and began working completely online. My income is derived roughly 40% from affiliate marketing revenue, 25% from domain/parked page AdSense clicks, and 35% from two different online MLM's.

What I've learned is that you need to be up front with people if you expect them to perform in your downline. An MLM is an MLM, there's no point in trying to hide it or disguise it as anything otherwise. The products that the two MLM's I'm involved with are really self-selling in the sense that they're inexpensive and easy to obtain. It's also important that you DON'T harass your friends/family as that "warm market" is small and dries up fast. At the end of the day you'll want to have them as friends and family that love and respect you, not those who avoid you because they're afraid you're going to try to sell them shit.

Do they pay me a lot? No, the average is approximately $4/sale, but I should mention that the $4/sale is monthly for both MLM's, so that's where the passive income comes from. My goal is 25,000 sales with a (hopeful) 10% overall retention rate. With a bit of planning and support of my downline that's completely possible. I'm about 1/4 of the way there at the moment, and my downline is growing daily. That's the part I LOVE about MLM's and the internet- I can accept recruits from all over the world.

The point that I'm trying to make (and that Hosin has already mentioned) is that a MLM is a LOT of work and it sure as hell is not for everyone. A lot of people wouldn't even understand the concept behind it or how to make it work for them which, whether you like it or not, is a harsh reality. Those are the people that are quick to label MLM's as "scams".

When I was looking for an MLM (yes, actively looking for one) it was because:

1) I was going to promote it entirely online.

2) It had to have no or a low entry fee. One of them is free to join, and the other is $10.00 a month. I figure that's pretty damn cheap.

I've been doing the MLM side of things since April and its been growing pretty well. It has yet to surpass my affiliate marketing revenue, but with the growth that I'm seeing it's only a matter of time. At no point have I ever thought that the MLM income was permanent, but I estimate at least four-six years, during which I will be actively expanding other brick and mortar businesses (an eavestroughing company that I'm buying into being one of them) as well as other online ventures. Yes, you can make money on the internet, and I'm living proof (so is beyond. I bet you that rage is making decent cash from this website).

Also, don't PM me asking for the MLM names/website addresses because I won't give them to you. I have absolutely no desire to recruit anyone off beyond nor show them the websites that I own. The last thing I need is a horde of beyonders pissed off because they can't/won't/are too stupid to make money.

[jbabante]

:goflames:

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by A790
Also, don't PM me asking for the MLM names/website addresses because I won't give them to you. I have absolutely no desire to recruit anyone off beyond nor show them the websites that I own. The last thing I need is a horde of beyonders pissed off because they can't/won't/are too stupid to make money.

Really? Wasn't this bush league shit (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/167636/need-freelance-writer/) your doing? Seems like you MLMers are all about trying to pull a fast one on people. :rolleyes:

[A790]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


Really? Wasn't this bush league shit (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/167636/need-freelance-writer/) your doing? Seems like you MLMers are all about trying to pull a fast one on people. :rolleyes:

lol, keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about :)

Business is business, regardless of the distribution system. At the end of the day every business has some kind of pyramid to it. The only difference between a good MLM and a traditional business is that you can get to the top of one if you work hard enough.

EDIT: and I should mention that the six students I have working for me averaged around $40 an hour which is pretty fucking good for part time work :)

EDIT EDIT: Also, Helium.com doesn't pay anything (as you'd have found out if you signed up) and writing 500 words in 15 minutes is certainly possible for even a hobbyist as I don't delivery university level shit. Unlike what you think you know I simply deliver English text for cheap. But sometimes I forget how wise and intelligent the venerable Super_Geo is *bow*.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by A790
Also, don't PM me asking for the MLM names/website addresses because I won't give them to you. I have absolutely no desire to recruit anyone off beyond nor show them the websites that I own. The last thing I need is a horde of beyonders pissed off because they can't/won't/are too stupid to make money.

So basically, you don't want to be held accountable by anyone.

If you really believed in your company and your product it wouldn't matter who you recruited.

[A790]

Originally posted by sputnik


So basically, you don't want to be held accountable by anyone.

If you really believed in your company and your product it wouldn't matter who you recruited.

No, it matters because of people like Super_Geo, who think they know everything but are rather myopic in reality. I don't want people from beyond signing up because I don't want to deal with it. I run my businesses just fine without beyonds help and hence I don't need it.

If someone from beyond were to randomly run into one of my websites and sign up, hey, good for them :)

[Super_Geo]

Bullshit. $40/hour at $3/500word essay? Do you even think of the shit that leaves your mouth?

They'd have to type at 111 words/minute for an hour straight. You might not be a scammer, but I don't consider you to be much more. Enjoy your MLM's.

[Antonito]

I'm confused as to how you get to the top of a MLM pyramid scheme

[asuth077]

Originally posted by Antonito
I'm confused as to how you get to the top of a MLM pyramid scheme

As am I.

Everyone who signed up before you dies?

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by A790

No, it matters because of people like Super_Geo, who think they know everything but are rather myopic in reality. I don't want people from beyond signing up because I don't want to deal with it.

More like you want to avoid the scrutiny of a large group of people when you're trying to recruit people because someone will call you out on it. Don't say you don't want to use Beyond... you already tried with your 'freelance writing' thread but someone pointed out the fact that you were doing none of the work and taking 50% of the pay.

See that's what I mean... your 'passive income' is set up once you have uninformed people doing your work when they could easily be taking the entire cut. While that is somewhat like how a business is run, the big (and very important) difference here is that there's no real barrier to entry to what you're doing. As in: the people could easily side-step you and get paid directly without having you take a cut. However, with a real company there's a large initial investment, overhead, teams of different employees, etc... with you it's just finding that website and signing up.

I'm glad you figured it out though... it's a lot harder to fleece a large group of people. Now you're onto targeting chumps individually... good on you! :thumbsup:

[A790]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


More like you want to avoid the scrutiny of a large group of people when you're trying to recruit people because someone will call you out on it. Don't say you don't want to use Beyond... you already tried with your 'freelance writing' thread but someone pointed out the fact that you were doing none of the work and taking 50% of the pay.

See that's what I mean... your 'passive income' is set up once you have uninformed people doing your work when they could easily be taking the entire cut. While that is somewhat like how a business is run, the big (and very important) difference here is that there's no real barrier to entry to what you're doing. As in: the people could easily side-step you and get paid directly without having you take a cut. However, with a real company there's a large initial investment, overhead, teams of different employees, etc... with you it's just finding that website and signing up.

I'm glad you figured it out though... it's a lot harder to fleece a large group of people. Now you're onto targeting chumps individually... good on you! :thumbsup:

Again, you think you know what you're talking about. The work that I send my students varies from article writing to sales copies and averages roughly $250-$300 an order which, by all accounts, should take around 8 to 10 hours to complete. Secondly, I do the same work as they do but I don't expect you to believe that since you're all knowing and all.

Thricely, good luck finding a website to sign up for that does what I was offering. I've structured my business so that I approach clients personally as opposed to using websites to generate business. But again, I don't expect you to believe that since you're all knowing and all.

Lastly, it because people don't understand how MLM's work and hence I don't want to deal with the bullshit from all knowing people like you. I'm amazed: if you know everything there is to know about business and everyone else, howcome you're not some insanely rich guy who's living the good life?

Oh, right, because you don't know everything. :clap:

[A790]

Originally posted by Antonito
I'm confused as to how you get to the top of a MLM pyramid scheme

You create your own pyramid within the company. You will always have your upline, so in that sense you will never get to the top of that. However, it's how you build your downline- that's what's important.

[A790]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
Bullshit. $40/hour at $3/500word essay? Do you even think of the shit that leaves your mouth?

They'd have to type at 111 words/minute for an hour straight. You might not be a scammer, but I don't consider you to be much more. Enjoy your MLM's.

Also, I don't know where the hell you're getting the word "essay" and how that relates to my business? If I wanted university (or even high school) level material from my employees I'd pay them more. The price is perfect for the product, but then again, you know everything, right?

[jbabante]

hey A790, just wondering how do u help people with ur business? just gimme a quick example.. as u compare it to beyond.ca who helps people to sell their cars, junk etc...

[Antonito]

Originally posted by A790


You create your own pyramid within the company. You will always have your upline, so in that sense you will never get to the top of that. However, it's how you build your downline- that's what's important.

So it's exactly like any other company, you will never be on top, but can hope to have a lot of people working underneath you.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


Really? Wasn't this bush league shit (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/167636/need-freelance-writer/) your doing? Seems like you MLMers are all about trying to pull a fast one on people. :rolleyes:

Holy shit what a crock of shit. Seems like I can relate the MLMers to stuff I scrape off the bottom of my shoe.

[HoisinSauce]

How, exactly, do most of you guys define a pyramid?

[A790]

Originally posted by jbabante
hey A790, just wondering how do u help people with ur business? just gimme a quick example.. as u compare it to beyond.ca who helps people to sell their cars, junk etc...

Well, the MLM's I work with are entirely online. They sell online products, so when I bring people into my downline I show them how to set up a quick, attractive website, how WordPress works, ways to generate traffic for free/low-budget, sales methods that work online, etc.

The big thing is showing them how to find people that are interested vs. people who are just "feeling around". There is a surprisingly large base of people online who are looking for MLM's to join and work with, so it's not hard to find new people.

[jbabante]

Originally posted by A790


Well, the MLM's I work with are entirely online. They sell online products, so when I bring people into my downline I show them how to set up a quick, attractive website, how WordPress works, ways to generate traffic for free/low-budget, sales methods that work online, etc.

The big thing is showing them how to find people that are interested vs. people who are just &quot;feeling around&quot;. There is a surprisingly large base of people online who are looking for MLM's to join and work with, so it's not hard to find new people.

as long as u have inventory to sell, and ur helping people, i'll give u a :thumbsup:

[A790]

Originally posted by jbabante


as long as u have inventory to sell, and ur helping people, i'll give u a :thumbsup:

Ha, I'll take that :)

The big thing for me with these MLM's was that the "startup fee" was cheap, as I really disagree with having to pay to join a program. I suppose it helps weed out the people that are serious vs. those that aren't, but either way it really doesn't help establish legitimacy with the rest of the business world. As I mentioned earlier, one of them is free to join, so it's not hard to generate conversions based on that.

What's hard is finding people that are actually going to be able to sell products and recruit other MLMers. I have a couple people in my downline that are recruiting like mad but aren't selling anything... hence no money is being made.

[drew_goring]

Originally posted by HoisinSauce
How, exactly, do most of you guys define a pyramid?

Here you go. I hope the illustration helps you with the complex definition of a pyramid. Just add in an overpriced shitty product and there you have it, a legalized pyramid scam. :thumbsup:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/037db7ee2d56fee7646125b9a345d53d2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0xfmz7arnzj&thumb=4)

[shane]

lol

[Atriux]

Originally posted by drew_goring


Here you go. I hope the illustration helps you with the complex definition of a pyramid. Just add in an overpriced shitty product and there you have it, a legalized pyramid scam. :thumbsup:

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/037db7ee2d56fee7646125b9a345d53d2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0xfmz7arnzj&amp;thumb=4)

ahaha that made me laugh =)

[Mr_John]

Just curious A790 but dont you go to school in London? I remember your break up thread awhile ago.

But if your MLM is going so well and your goals and plans are reachable then why the need for school? You could be using that time and energy from school to earn more through your projects couldnt you?

[A790]

Originally posted by Mr_John
Just curious A790 but dont you go to school in London? I remember your break up thread awhile ago.

But if your MLM is going so well and your goals and plans are reachable then why the need for school? You could be using that time and energy from school to earn more through your projects couldnt you?

Yea I'm going to school in London. I don't see the MLM's has having more than a few years of longevity, and I want to get my degree in business and marketing for the future. It never hurts to have a backup plan.

[seadog]

I saw an ad on TV for Avon makeup like 5 minutes ago and thought of this post. They want $20 to sign up. Presumably for promotional material and other knic-knacks. A cost reflective of setting up a new reseller. I once was part of a MLM thing selling server space but it was free to join and the company helped you with resources.

The fundemental difference is that you advertised "sign up under me and make lots of money" instead of "sign up for my telecom services and save money"

Colonal Sanders went around the south preaching how great his chicken was trying to get ppl to sell it on his behalf. Told ppl they could make money by selling it to the masses.

You're going around preaching recruitment. Telling ppl they can make money by recruiting just like you are.

With no Colonal Sanders, you have no secret recipe and no busniess advantage.

With no you, I'm perfectly able to find some resaleable telecom service on my own, then charge $400 for people to "sell it" under me and recruit more ppl.

[A790]

Originally posted by seadog
I saw an ad on TV for Avon makeup like 5 minutes ago and thought of this post. They want $20 to sign up. Presumably for promotional material and other knic-knacks. A cost reflective of setting up a new reseller. I once was part of a MLM thing selling server space but it was free to join and the company helped you with resources.

The fundemental difference is that you advertised &quot;sign up under me and make lots of money&quot; instead of &quot;sign up for my telecom services and save money&quot;

Colonal Sanders went around the south preaching how great his chicken was trying to get ppl to sell it on his behalf. Told ppl they could make money by selling it to the masses.

You're going around preaching recruitment. Telling ppl they can make money by recruiting just like you are.

With no Colonal Sanders, you have no secret recipe and no busniess advantage.

With no you, I'm perfectly able to find some resaleable telecom service on my own, then charge $400 for people to &quot;sell it&quot; under me and recruit more ppl.

Why would you do that? That would easily cost more than $400 and would leave you in the same relative position.

[seadog]

I wouldn't because I have far better things to do with my time than sell someone elses product or recruit suckers.

Also I don't see how it would cost anything. Theres loads of free reseller programs around. Afterall why should they be charging me to sell thier product? It doesn't cost them anything to have me sell for them. At the end of the day they're ahead more than I would be.

[MrPid]

Originally posted by A790
As mentioned before, MLM's aren't for everyone. In June I left my &quot;day-job&quot; and began working completely online. My income is derived roughly 40% from affiliate marketing revenue, 25% from domain/parked page AdSense clicks, and 35% from two different online MLM's.

What I've learned is that you need to be up front with people if you expect them to perform in your downline. An MLM is an MLM, there's no point in trying to hide it or disguise it as anything otherwise. The products that the two MLM's I'm involved with are really self-selling in the sense that they're inexpensive and easy to obtain. It's also important that you DON'T harass your friends/family as that &quot;warm market&quot; is small and dries up fast. At the end of the day you'll want to have them as friends and family that love and respect you, not those who avoid you because they're afraid you're going to try to sell them shit.

Do they pay me a lot? No, the average is approximately $4/sale, but I should mention that the $4/sale is monthly for both MLM's, so that's where the passive income comes from. My goal is 25,000 sales with a (hopeful) 10% overall retention rate. With a bit of planning and support of my downline that's completely possible. I'm about 1/4 of the way there at the moment, and my downline is growing daily. That's the part I LOVE about MLM's and the internet- I can accept recruits from all over the world.

The point that I'm trying to make (and that Hosin has already mentioned) is that a MLM is a LOT of work and it sure as hell is not for everyone. A lot of people wouldn't even understand the concept behind it or how to make it work for them which, whether you like it or not, is a harsh reality. Those are the people that are quick to label MLM's as &quot;scams&quot;.

When I was looking for an MLM (yes, actively looking for one) it was because:

1) I was going to promote it entirely online.

2) It had to have no or a low entry fee. One of them is free to join, and the other is $10.00 a month. I figure that's pretty damn cheap.

I've been doing the MLM side of things since April and its been growing pretty well. It has yet to surpass my affiliate marketing revenue, but with the growth that I'm seeing it's only a matter of time. At no point have I ever thought that the MLM income was permanent, but I estimate at least four-six years, during which I will be actively expanding other brick and mortar businesses (an eavestroughing company that I'm buying into being one of them) as well as other online ventures. Yes, you can make money on the internet, and I'm living proof (so is beyond. I bet you that rage is making decent cash from this website).

Also, don't PM me asking for the MLM names/website addresses because I won't give them to you. I have absolutely no desire to recruit anyone off beyond nor show them the websites that I own. The last thing I need is a horde of beyonders pissed off because they can't/won't/are too stupid to make money.

Being up front with people and working hard are universal keys to success regardless of what business you work in...

I think that the majority of individuals that engage in network marketing ultimately fail. A lot of individuals expectations are unrealistic - they expect to succeed without the hard work, etc.. If you couple that with poor products and bad marketing, it's no surprise that people react negatively...

On the other hand...I don't recall where I saw the statistic, but I believe it stated that in North America, the network marketing industry produces more millionaires than any other...

If you're naturally gifted in one way or another and capitalize on it and work hard, you're likely to be a success. Sounds to me that is what you're pretty much doing...

[shane]

good point

[SneakyNeek]

what about primerica?

anyone have any experince in this?

[canadian_hustla]

just out of curiousity, isn't "partylite" (i.e. selling overpriced candles) a similar pyramid scam?

you get money for referrals, recruiting, if recruiters have partylite parties etc etc.

[7thgenvic]

hahahah i love reading threads like this....you poor poor souls who have to turn to pyramid scams to made a $.... simply sad

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by SneakyNeek
what about primerica?

anyone have any experince in this?

Not personally, but I've met a bunch of people that have.

Man I dont feel like typing this, I seriously dont, but just so long as another guy doesn't get fall victum in another God-Damn MLM; I'll do it. :nut:

Primerica is essentially another multi-level marketing program, whereas you have your typical Lists of people to contact.

your A list meaning close friends and family

B list, people in your sphere of influence, people you went to school with (etc)

C list, everybody that still has a heartbeat and is somewhat interested in whatever it is that your doing.

Basically the scope is for you to contact your A and B lists,
AND!!!!!! after you've (inevitably) radically alienated all your friends and family, you can THEN be sure to move on to the limitless C list! :thumbsup: .....this is all in the manner of selling something.
Unlike most MLM's there are no products with Primerica.
only insurance this time. Specifically life insurance. There are many other MLM's like it as my parents' friends are in another one which is even better then Primerica (which doesn't take much)

The problem is, the insurance policies are very "one size fits all" whereas no given policy relates to any one person or group.
The payouts are very poor, and its quite difficult to sigh anybody up for them unless they can't do simple math or think.
(basically if anybody has any exposure to any other life insurance policy, they'd see what a bad deal anything Primerica offers: is)

As you move the insurance polices, you get a kick-back.
If you manage to get somebody invovled beneath you, and they end up moving a number of policies too: you get a small percentage of what they make. The higher up you go on the pyramid, the more you get as you'll then be getting a bigger percentage of all the policies now being moved under neath your "umbrella".

The payouts are shit in compairison to how much work is involved, but I wont lie, of course you can make money: it just comes down to how hard your willing to work:
however your return on your level of work involved is a heck of a lot greater and more gratifing if you'd look at other (non MLM) venues. :thumbsup:

Long story short: dont waste your time and look elsewhere. :)

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by SneakyNeek
what about primerica?

anyone have any experince in this?

If anyone has come to try and recruit you, you probably asked questions about the company they always try to avoid or won't answer (which is probably why you are asking about them in this thread).

Someone tried to recruit me one time when I was working at the mall. She wouldn't tell me anything about the company besides their name and that they "sell insurance and are opening a new branch". It's all scripted bull-shit which they're told to say in the "workshops" (which you will inevitably have to attend as part of your integration into the company - in addition, there's no "new branch" opening up. it's just bullshit to try to make you think it's a REAL insurance company).

Not REALLY related to why I thought the job was shady, but the "recruiter" seemed like a nice lady, but didn't seem confident at all. She wouldn't look at me eye to eye (looked at the floor) when she was blabbering out the lines she practiced at home before she tried to coherse me. She didn't even ask for my name during the interview, almost as if she forgot and was not interested, and I just ended up telling her and raising my hand to shake hers. I did end up giving her my number. She called me the next day, and everytime I tried to ask something about the company, she would stutter and not answer, saying "just come to the workshop...oh and bring a friend". I was already familiar with pyramid schemes at this time, and that was the last I talked to her. She did call half a dozen times after that, but I never picked up and I believe she got the message.

Basically, I don't trust someone who is not going to be upfront with me and answer very simple questions that I deserve to have answered before I waste my time. Would you?

[Graham_A_M]

^ Sounds like Quixtar as well, or "Mellaluca" (the REALLY shady vitamin one) or the now defunt Excell. Excell was a given pyramid scheme, they wouldn't have a problem telling you that either.. but the chances of making decent coin were there, so most people didn't mind. They were shut down a few years ago due to some very shady dealings with the money in the higher up of the pyramid ranks... I was told it was along the lines of money laundering and bribing, but I can't say for certain.
But the same incessant call backs are definately something I remember doing.

But even today I'm amazed at the companies that resort to some pie in the sky MLM type deal to move their products.

I'm a huge fan of Amsoil, I use it in everything even my lawnmower, as its absolutely stellar stuff, however their primary tool for the distribution of it is an MLM type platform, complete with downlines and uplines etc. :thumbsdow

Thankfully they dont try to recruit people, I think a lot of people join to get at cost pricing on the oil.:dunno:

[adam c]

i know a few people who did this thing.. the $400 one and they're making good money.. one girl i know made 8g in her first 2 weeks...

but yea. its gay

[urban.one]

I have friends who always end up in MLM schemes. Its always the same people. They join a new one and are excited that they will make a fortune. 6 months or a year later they have probably spent more money than theyve been paid and they fall out of the scheme. Then another friend who was in the same failed venture will approach them and sell them on a new and even better MLM scheme. They will join this one and be gungho again. They again will fail and drop out after so many months.
I have friend who have lost probably thousands of dollars on these schemes but they keep going back and truely believe the "next one" will be the one they get rich on.

[three.eighteen.]

i really don't understand why people fall for this stuff, while i see the opportunity is there, i think the time, effort and money is much better spent at something more worthwhile, like an education or finding a job where the description is not a jumble of buzz words

[kdwebber]

$400 for a business license... none of it goes to the people above you...that would be illegal!:bullshit:

[A790]

I don't understand why MLMers always hit up their friends/family. If you're going to operate a MLM as a business you have to treat it like one- if your friends and family want to opt in let them do it on their own accord. I've dropped both MLM's actively (still receiving passive commission from them) and am now working as an affiliate marketer full time, and though the two are different in their structure the same end goal is the same: sales. Sell, sell, sell!

I laugh at a lot of people who are quick to disband MLM's as having income potential because I've been there, done that, and I have the income sheets and checks to prove that you can make make money with them. However, if you approach a MLM as anything other than a MLM business you won't make a dime.

Also, if you don't believe that the internet can make you rich you're living in the past. I'm 21 and I'm financially stable/secure/have 3 years of living expense saved due to the internet and the immense potential of it.

Offline MLM's are going to become obsolete, but you will (and already are) going to see TONS of online MLM's take off.

Just you watch, it will happen.

EDIT: Oh, also, I think that it's important to note that the people that are successful in MLM's are also usually successful in other businesses as well.

EDIT EDIT: Don't get into a MLM unless you're prepared to work and work like a dog for it. :)