Anybody buy a rolled-back vehicle before?

[G-ZUS]

.

[buh_buh]

I was always under the assumption that you buy the car as is, and if there's shit wrong with it after the fact, then tough shit.

[anarchy]

Wow that's bullshit.

I wouldn't know how to help you but good luck with the situation.

That is some shady shit.

[benyl]

rolling back mileage is still illegal. "As is where is" or not.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by benyl
rolling back mileage is still illegal. "As is where is" or not.

That's true, but that's not Michener's problem. And since the OP will never be able to prove which previous owner actually rolled the mileage back less some miracle, it's not worth the trouble.

[Hakkola]

OUCH! P.S. Head gasket = expensive. Trust me, I'm still sore from bending over on that one.

[88jbody]

an auction is not a dealer so that part will not fly.

but unless you can prove who rolled the milage back unfortunatly there really is nothing you can do. other then make in known what happened.

the worst part is they did not seem to car at all when you told them it had been rolled back. you would think they would at least say sorry they did not know.

if it was a car dealer you would have full recourse fro your money back, but they are a consignor making it a private sale.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by G-ZUS


Also, AMVIC states that dealers must do an inspection on a car before selling it, which clearly this dealer did not do.

Might be a grey area though, as auctions are not dealers per say, since the car is on consignment, and is never "property" of the auction house.

I think your best bet would be to get the info of the previous owner, and charge him for the money.

[ken-gsr]

Yeah it sounds like it was probably a home based business. The only way that you can be a 'Car Dealer' from your home is if you do what is called 'Auction to auction sales'. This local 'dealer' is probably one guy doing it from his house. Just hope that his business is a sole proprietor as apposed to a numbered company. At least if he owns the business himself - then you can sue him.

[urban.one]

Carfax is full of holes.

Regardless, your only hope is that the 270k was at the time of the transfer to the last owner who sold it at auction.

Too late now... but auctions are a great way to get rid of junk.

[autosm]

Do not buy from a Auction 95 % of the stuff is there for a reason .

Nothing good makes it to those auctions . It is a way for them to get rid of shit that cannot be sold off a lot.

hopefully it was cheap ,runs ok and you can get some use from it .

[Toma]

Well, first step is Amvic, and see what they say. They know who owned the car at every step, and it might not be to hard to get the mileage out of the last registered owner, thus pegging the blame on the dealer...who should ahad carfax access anyway

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by autosm
Do not buy from a Auction 95 % of the stuff is there for a reason .

Nothing good makes it to those auctions . It is a way for them to get rid of shit that cannot be sold off a lot.

hopefully it was cheap ,runs ok and you can get some use from it .

:werd: You win some and you lose some when it comes to auctions.

[Toma]

Yeah, I've bought 3 cars from auctions recently, all are perfect.

They can end up as repos, fllet or city vehicles, trades that a dealer didn't really want, over stock, private people that didnt want the hassle of showing the car to a million tire kickers etc...

[autosm]

Well depending on what you are looking for but AMVIC rules for the most part do not apply to auctions as they are considered wholesale sales .

Auctions in Calgary are full of cars that cannot be sold on lots .


Anyone thinking they can get a good deal with out any car knowledge is risking getting stuck with a problem.

Buyer beware !!!!!!!!!!!

[TurboZombie]

Originally posted by autosm
Do not buy from a Auction 95 % of the stuff is there for a reason .

Nothing good makes it to those auctions . It is a way for them to get rid of shit that cannot be sold off a lot.

hopefully it was cheap ,runs ok and you can get some use from it .

Not every bad car goes to the auction, but every car that is bad goes to the auction.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Toma]

Did you speak with AMVIC yet? Curious as to what they had to say.

Although auctions maybe auctions, they still HAVE to tell you stuff like if its out of province, salvage etc. They bear some responsibility for their vehicles.

If you want to get out of the car, I would call a lawyer and just run it by him as well.... seems to me, mileage fraud is serious enough to warrant at least your money back....

[Toma]

Well.... get this. I am going to an auction tomorrow, so for $30 I bought the unlimited carfax for a month. I am looking for a cheap winter beater, automatic... something like a Neon, Sunfire etc...

Anyway, I ran some of the vins listed on Graham auctions site, and I got this...

Examples....

1997 PONTIAC SUNFIRE 2 DR RED Odom: 152533 Vin: 3G2JB1240VS875622 4 CYL AUTO RADIO CASS AC CC TW PW PDL

Carfax has it listed as 201,999 in 08/23/07 listed as dealer inventory.... so the dealer rolled it back.


1997 CHEV CAVALIER M BLUE Odom: 182600 Vin: 3G1JC5241VS803210 2.2L AUTO RADIO CASS AC TILT Carfax has listed as 325,622km back in 2003!!!


1998 VOLKSWAGON PASSAT GREEN Odom: 147000 Vin: WVWAA63B4WE108330 1.8 T 5SPD PS PB PW RADIO PDL AC 6CD TILT SUNRF
Carfax has it last sold at an auction 07/17/2006 with 271,711!

Shitty thing is, In alberta, it seems reporting mielage is not required, so its really hard to tell with some of the older cars. The best cars are the US cars... you get conitnuous history it seems lol...

Buyer beware I guess....

[buh_buh]

so these auctions are basically just curbers?

What you should do Toma is have someone waiting at a computer while your at the auction, then once you have a car you've got your eye on, call your friend with the VIN right away to check the carfax.

[Toma]

Originally posted by buh_buh
so these auctions are basically just curbers?

What you should do Toma is have someone waiting at a computer while your at the auction, then once you have a car you've got your eye on, call your friend with the VIN right away to check the carfax.
I was gonna go all pimpin' Rage2 style and just have the wireless internet on me ;)

With Graham its easy, cause they post the listing a day ahead....

With Mitchner Allen you just go the day before and write down what you are interested in....

[mekeni]

never go to car auctions here in calgary :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

[HondaRice]

does carfax have protection if anything they say say on their website is untrue?

[R!zz0]

is it possible to roll back kms in digital?

Check if the car is in miles. I got screwed once like that and bought a civic with 230k miles

[funkedelic]

tough break man, hope you get your money back

[MintRacer]

Auctions are not dealers.. thus amvic has nothing on them.

[bobby_lu]

And thats why you need the bond in order to consign vehicles, read up on AMVIC's site.

[Doh]

Here is the just of it for you.

I took in a trade, 94 GMC 2500 Diesel, in 1999. It showed 154,000 kms on the odometer.

We sold it through the Winnipeg Auction, and 2 weeks later we get a call about the truck, it seems that there was a warranty engine installed @ 165,000 kms in 97, and work orders in that garage showing 187,000 kms.

The person who bought it wanted $5000 I believe, but he could have got his money back. Our dealership insurance company paid the claim, and went after the guy for Fraud charge.

The customer lost bigtime, I think it was to the tune of 10g's to charity, plus probation.

[BrknFngrs]

If your a student at UofC go talk to the free legal council they offer.

[autosm]

Originally posted by R!zz0
is it possible to roll back kms in digital?

Check if the car is in miles. I got screwed once like that and bought a civic with 230k miles



Well I know this . Spedo heads / clusters are one of the first things that sell from wreckers .

I am sure newer cars record the milage in the ECU but I doubt you or I can access that info.

[Wehbeast]

Originally posted by autosm
Well I know this . Spedo heads / clusters are one of the first things that sell from wreckers .


:werd: I never trusted that Michener place.

[Doh]

Ok Gus, so as I had stated in the previous reply. The Auction was the one that arbitrated the sale of the diesel that we sold that had it's odometer rolled back.

If the car went through as a "green light" or with out a clause "true milage unknown" they are the ones responsible for going after the consignee.

And it is truely a Fraudulant act, with stiff penalties.

Even if it had a tag on the drivers door, which can be done if the odometer is changed, the Auction would have to state actual mileage in the sale.

[Doh]

I would go to a lawer, with the CarFax report, and the bill of sale from the auction, (that would state the mileage) and any work orders you can find from a servicing dealer. Anyone would be happy to jump all over that one.

Here in Ontario, ever year that you renew your tags, you have to state the current mileage aswell.

I had to stand up in court while our insurance company placed criminal charges on my customer for doing just what has been done to you.

If a dealer ran your car at the sale, thier insurance would pick up the tab, for what ever lost you suffered.

[Jayson]

Ask this guy for advice he works at an auction

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/192440/car-auctions-ask-the-auctioneer/

[autosm]

Amvic is almost powerless , as you can see its up to you to go after the seller.

I really do not know why they are even operating ?

They seem to just keep the honest people honest.

[Mazstyle]

OMG ppl, if you buy a car at an AUCTION, it's your responsibility to check it out. My friend just bought a truck there, and after a week he finds out his 4wd doesn't work.

Did he go cry to a lawyer or AMVIC, and post on the internet demanding justice? no he said "thats sucks, but I still got a decent truck at a great price"

I know theres some shady ppl out there curb sellers etc, but at an auction it's completely buyer beware. Assume every vehicle is a scam, The only vehicles that I actually recommend buying are fleet vehicles believe it or not.

Yea they were probably driven hard, but chances are they were maintained half decently and companies don't give 2 shits what they fetch at an auction, so they don't hide stuff (paint, rollbacks etc)

[Toma]

Well it also depends on what auction and how much he paid.... there are some that allow a certain time for mechanical inspections etc....

Auctions are NOT supposed to be for dishonest scumbags to get good money for junk....

Amvic should at least pull this guys dealer license..... that IS what they are there for.... to keep dishonest dealers and shops inline or out of business.

I would try calling th police actually. IF rolling back mileage is against the law as I thought it was.... maybe they can do something.

[Mazstyle]

Originally posted by G-ZUS

I didn't ask your opinion on auction cars so stfu.

No you asked everyones advice, and my advice is to quit crying about some old POS you bought that might have a couple extra KM's on it, it's not worth your time...




Originally posted by Toma


Auctions are NOT supposed to be for dishonest scumbags to get good money for junk....



When you provide a service that lets people sell their vehicles behind a wall of complete anonymity/secrecy, what kind of vehicles/sellers are they going to attract?

Think about it people.

A rollback is a minor problem, compared to some of the wrecked vehicles that get scabbed back together and resold... I'd rather drive a mercedes with 300k then an 06 escalade that has *new paint*

[autosm]

The problem with calling the police is they are overwelmed with this sort of stuff .

There is a lot of shit still coming to Alberta . A friend of mine bought a Acura TL that was a flooded car from the US . It just passed a out of province inspection before she bought it. Some how it was passed in Alberta but flagged in the US ??The car was a year old . Amvic is powerless to even help her . The car runs ok but not worth the top dollar she paid.

Bottom line is Buyer beware on every thing including used stuff from Dealers .There is a lot of scams going on out there even now .

Auctions can be very good but know what you are buying .Assume every thing needs work . bid with that in mind .

I would distrust any odometer reading . Asume the worst and you will never be surprised.

[Toma]

I could care less if the police are "overwhelmed". If its against the law, its against the law, and the trail in this case is dead easy to follow.

[HondaRice]

http://carfax.com/guarantee/buyback_pop.cfm

Carfax guarantee's the DMV reports, DMV didnt report a milage problem so you may have grounds.

[urban.one]

What resolution do you want? Do you want to give the car back and get your money back?
Do you want a portion of your money back?

Talking to a lawyer would be your best bet to resolve this but it may not be worth the money youll have to spend on legal fees. You could always try to research the law yourself; its pretty clear that either the dealer or auction or both have fault in this.

I would probably try to get an idea of what the laws regarding auction and dealer responsibility are. Then take one or both of them to small claims court. Is it possible to name two parties as defendants in lawsuit in small claims? If you could do that, then youd have the judge figure out whos responsible. But to start, id probably take the auction to small claims court under the premise they didnt misrepresented the mileage on the vehicle. It seems pretty clearcut that they didnt put the mileage unknown sticker on it. They might have some recourse in being able to go after the dealer who sold the car but Im guessing you could win against the auction.

[urban.one]

I dont think theyd have much defense if you sued them.

If you initiate the lawsuit in small claims court, Im sure their lawyer would tell them to settle rather than drag it out to a trial.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by urban.one
I dont think theyd have much defense if you sued them.

If you initiate the lawsuit in small claims court, Im sure their lawyer would tell them to settle rather than drag it out to a trial.

Actually, private car sales are as is.

[HondaRice]

ok just go to carfax, file a complain. close closed.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by G-ZUS


How is it a private sale? The dealer consigned the vehicle through the auction.. They are supposed to tell you the mileage is unknown and dealers are required by AMVIC to inspect the vehicles

Simple. A used car sale is as is. It's the end of the rope son. Sorry. Go ahead and try to prove that the dealer rolled back the km's or knew about it prior to the sale.

[autosm]

Originally posted by Toma
I could care less if the police are "overwhelmed". If its against the law, its against the law, and the trail in this case is dead easy to follow.


All the police will do is start a file and that is as far as it will go . AMVIC is the same .

I agree with you but the situation is hard to prove who altered the milage . It is not against the law to change the odometer with a used one . It has to be documented . The sticker could have come off ? That is what they will say .
If the car has had a few owners how are you going to prove who switched it ? The person will say he forgot and that will be the end of it .

[bignerd]

Well everyone can help and try to do their part by reporting the mileage on their vehicle when you renew your registration or sell the car, I believe there is a spot on the back of the registration form or on the bill of sale to voluntarily report your mileage.