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View Full Version : Need advice for type 1 diabetics taking creatine.



Graham_A_M
10-25-2007, 09:21 PM
Hey guys, Iím a type 1 diabetic (meaning 4 needles a day) and have been for 10 years now. Iíd like to bump up my work-out schedule and really start bulking up, but for that I need to start taking creatine.
I was told that it needs to function in parallel to insulin, apparently it needs the insulin to open up the muscle cells to allow in the sugars in the body, but it also uses the opened cells as a gateway for the creatine to enter. Also, creatine needs to be taken in conjunction with sugar. (which is entirely fine)
The question is, what are the things to and not do when mixing in creatine with a diabetic.

Iím entirely a n00b at this, and have little idea what Iím doing. Any help/leads/tips would be much appreciated, thanks a lot in advance for the replies.
:)

Team_Mclaren
10-25-2007, 09:24 PM
call your doctor

FreakinPrince
10-25-2007, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Team_Mclaren
call your doctor


x1 miillion


we are not all doctors here...we rather have you see someone who speicalized in that field and give you a better answers....we don't want you to risk your life when it just simple to go to someone with better knowledge.

rx7girlie
10-25-2007, 09:57 PM
you definitely must go see your doctor and possibly also access a Diabetic Clinical Educator that should be readily available, I'm sure being a 10 year diabetic you must be familiar with those contacts.

But just to reiterate the fact of going to a PROFESSIONAL (ie - not beyond), I quickly did a search:

"However, patients with a history of renal dysfunction or diabetes or those taking concomitant nephrotoxic agents should avoid creatine supplementation or be monitored closely if supplementation is necessary." (Review of Natural Products (2007))

KRyn
10-25-2007, 10:00 PM
Don't bother taking creatine.. The key to "bulking up" is eating like a pig. I mean 5000+ calories a day.. I don't think that you will respond well to weight gainer and cheese burgers.. So you are pretty much stuck with a clean bulk. This is going to be expensive and time consuming.

Also are you taking your multi vitamin, fish oils, and drinking at least 3L of water a day?

1-Bar
10-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Creatine is more of an energy replenishment source vs. bulking material. Usually taken after workout, it replenishes your energy store in time for the next resistance training bout :thumbsup:

liquidboi69
10-25-2007, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by 1-Bar
Creatine is more of an energy replenishment source vs. bulking material. Usually taken after workout, it replenishes your energy store in time for the next resistance training bout :thumbsup:

Wtf.... i always thought creatine was used b4 workouts becuz it allows one to workout harder, aka more gains. Thats what i thought it generally did.....???

325crave
10-25-2007, 11:20 PM
All creatine does is push water into your muscles to make them bigger... if after taking creatine for a while and stop working out your muscles will sag and look very nasty.. i know from experience

GTS Jeff
10-26-2007, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by KRyn
Don't bother taking creatine.. The key to "bulking up" is eating like a pig. I mean 5000+ calories a day.. I don't think that you will respond well to weight gainer and cheese burgers.. So you are pretty much stuck with a clean bulk. This is going to be expensive and time consuming.

Also are you taking your multi vitamin, fish oils, and drinking at least 3L of water a day? It's tough for someone with Type 1 to eat that much and control their glucose levels. I had to do an assignment where I pretended to be Type 1 for a week and carried around a blood glucumeter and a fake insulin needle. Following a normal diet, let alone a 5000 calory diet requires intense devotion. Most people aren't that religious with the glucose testing, so it's important to stick to a diabetic diet.

1-Bar
10-26-2007, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by liquidboi69


Wtf.... i always thought creatine was used b4 workouts becuz it allows one to workout harder, aka more gains. Thats what i thought it generally did.....???

You can take it before, but you have to do it in advance 1/2 - 1 hour. IMO the gains for that workout aren't as good as one would think. I rather replenish the stores I know I have depleted after, then to provide excess that I don't know if it will be used or not. Excess creatine in the system is flushed out via piss.....

Lex350
10-26-2007, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by GTS Jeff
It's tough for someone with Type 1 to eat that much and control their glucose levels. I had to do an assignment where I pretended to be Type 1 for a week and carried around a blood glucumeter and a fake insulin needle. Following a normal diet, let alone a 5000 calory diet requires intense devotion. Most people aren't that religious with the glucose testing, so it's important to stick to a diabetic diet.


It isnít the calorie intake that he gas to worry about as much as his carb intake. Carbs are what get converted to glucose so you need to keep that in check. In turn if you balance youer protien with your carbs you can burn fat and create muscle.

To start his doctor should have told him to stay away from high glycemic carbs like most paste, bananas and such. Stick to the lower glycemic carbs. When over-loading on these carbs the pancreas learns to a slope of a gylcemic response. A high glycermic response spikes your system so the pancreas compensates or over reacts throwing your whole system out of whack.

GTS Jeff
10-26-2007, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by rotten42



It isnít the calorie intake that he gas to worry about as much as his carb intake. Carbs are what get converted to glucose so you need to keep that in check. In turn if you balance youer protien with your carbs you can burn fat and create muscle.

To start his doctor should have told him to stay away from high glycemic carbs like most paste, bananas and such. Stick to the lower glycemic carbs. When over-loading on these carbs the pancreas learns to a slope of a gylcemic response. A high glycermic response spikes your system so the pancreas compensates or over reacts throwing your whole system out of whack. Are you serious? With IDDM, the pancreas won't compensate for shit and eating 5000+ calories on protein just isn't happening.

Darkane
10-26-2007, 12:48 PM
Easiest way to bulk 10 pounds? Take 40G of BCAA's during every workout for a month or so and you should be there assuming nutrition is in place as well. But then don't stop keep taking them as they are just awesome.

EDIT: Here is a good article by Fellow Canuck Dr. John Berardi on BCAA's. Explains a bit on insulin vs BCAA consumption as well.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1367018

Graham_A_M
10-26-2007, 05:12 PM
Hey guys. I figured nobody on here would give me a solid answer, but I thought I'd give it a shot regardless.

Truth is, diabetics can have whatever food, whenever. I haven't seen a doctor in about 5 years, because he said there was nothing he could teach me, apparently at the time my diabeties control/knowledge was amoung the top 5 best in Calgary. How he came up with that statistic? I dont know.
Yet diabetics can have as many calories as they want, as well as eat whatever, even slurpees.

Yet you probably wont hear that from anybody else but me. Since most diabetics have such a miserable understanding of the balance of carbs (as well as how fast their absorbed) in relation to activity (what kind of activity), and insulin (as well as how fast the insulin is absorbed, different types of insulin have different absorbtion rates in the body).
Thats why you see so many diabetics saying "I can't eat that"
I say "why not" when a person KNOWS how to have certain foods, and what to do exactly, there is nothing a person can't have. I go to buffet's too, and eat about 4-5 platefulls of whatever food... and its fine... I'm just honestly shocked at how people view their condition, whereas people think their ticking time bombs and eating the "WRONG" food (whatever the heck that is) will set them off. Its entirely not the case.

But anyway. I'm stuck at 1 and a half plates on the flat bench, and I'm getting really annoyed, the rate I'm bulking up is just slower then a pregnant sloth. Its just feels back and forth, back and forth. Some times I can lift almost two plates, other times a plate and a 10 is enough. :nut:
Creatine DOES make the muscles retain more water, but different types of creatine offer different performance enhancements.
Specifically (my buddy was telling me this, I forget exactly what its called) but there is something called "LSI" (or something simular) that actually allows you to retain more strength so the rep number can increase more so then without it.

^ But I know so little about creatine, I was just hoping there were some workout guru's that could explain things further.
but ah well. Thanks a lot for the help guys, I'll call my family doctor and see his insight into this.

Darkane
10-26-2007, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Hey guys. I figured nobody on here would give me a solid answer, but I thought I'd give it a shot regardless.

Truth is, diabetics can have whatever food, whenever. I haven't seen a doctor in about 5 years, because he said there was nothing he could teach me, apparently at the time my diabeties control/knowledge was amoung the top 5 best in Calgary. How he came up with that statistic? I dont know.
Yet diabetics can have as many calories as they want, as well as eat whatever, even slurpees.

Yet you probably wont hear that from anybody else but me. Since most diabetics have such a miserable understanding of the balance of carbs (as well as how fast their absorbed) in relation to activity (what kind of activity), and insulin (as well as how fast the insulin is absorbed, different types of insulin have different absorbtion rates in the body).
Thats why you see so many diabetics saying "I can't eat that"
I say "why not" when a person KNOWS how to have certain foods, and what to do exactly, there is nothing a person can't have. I go to buffet's too, and eat about 4-5 platefulls of whatever food... and its fine... I'm just honestly shocked at how people view their condition, whereas people think their ticking time bombs and eating the "WRONG" food (whatever the heck that is) will set them off. Its entirely not the case.

But anyway. I'm stuck at 1 and a half plates on the flat bench, and I'm getting really annoyed, the rate I'm bulking up is just slower then a pregnant sloth. Its just feels back and forth, back and forth. Some times I can lift almost two plates, other times a plate and a 10 is enough. :nut:
Creatine DOES make the muscles retain more water, but different types of creatine offer different performance enhancements.
Specifically (my buddy was telling me this, I forget exactly what its called) but there is something called "LSI" (or something simular) that actually allows you to retain more strength so the rep number can increase more so then without it.

^ But I know so little about creatine, I was just hoping there were some workout guru's that could explain things further.
but ah well. Thanks a lot for the help guys, I'll call my family doctor and see his insight into this.

So you ignore my solid advice on BCAA's huh? pfft. Go talk to your doctor.

Graham_A_M
10-27-2007, 11:13 AM
^shit, I forgot to click on your link. I'll do that right now.
Thanks eh?:)

rx7girlie
10-27-2007, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Thanks a lot for the help guys, I'll call my family doctor and see his insight into this.

Hey, when you do this, give us an update, I'm curious what the outcome will be. Good luck

Graham_A_M
12-19-2007, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by rx7girlie


Hey, when you do this, give us an update, I'm curious what the outcome will be. Good luck

Basically: Creatine needs to be taken in conjunction with insulin, and as the manufacter's of the creatine recommend; being to take with food so it can be fully digested; I just pour the powder in to a glass, add some OJ or cranberry juice, mix it and go... I do that for both breakfast & dinner, as twice a day makes for decent results.
Obviously I'm then meeting both of the required criterias.

This stuff is amazing for both increasing the reps and bulking up.
I'm WAY bigger then I was before.

Thanks a lot for the link Darkane. :thumbsup:

(I've been using the Prolab stuff)

blueripper6
12-19-2007, 02:17 AM
Hey man..

I did creatine, I am also type 1 diabetic(that means 10 needles a day, or sometimes 3, or sometimes 7 or sometimes 5) How can u say 4 needles a day? If you have been diabetic so long, you must be on an MDI plan (multiple daily injection)

Creatine fucked with my diabetes hardcore, I had doses set very well for my workout routine and as soon as I started that shit, it all went to hell. Even for about a week after I stopped taking it, then it was back to what it was before. If it works for you then great. Insulin is already a fat retention molecular compound, thats why some beefcakes use it. Just eat a lot, I mean a solid meal every 4 hours and a snack 2 hours after, you are eating something every 2 hours. You start stackin the calories, stacking insulin and stacking plates on your bar...

btw, I doubt your doctor would no shit, my diabetic doctor is a fucking idiot LOL. Im sourcing a new one.. You should probably see a doctor though, get your feet and everything checked. How do you have a license if you dont see a doctor? Or did I just get the short end of the stick because I have to renew my license with medical every year

dimsum125
12-19-2007, 03:19 AM
Talk to a Certified Exercise Physiologist (CSEP) or an Exercise Specialist (ACSM).

Graham_A_M
12-20-2007, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by blueripper6
Hey man..

I did creatine, I am also type 1 diabetic(that means 10 needles a day, or sometimes 3, or sometimes 7 or sometimes 5) How can u say 4 needles a day? If you have been diabetic so long, you must be on an MDI plan (multiple daily injection)

Creatine fucked with my diabetes hardcore, I had doses set very well for my workout routine and as soon as I started that shit, it all went to hell. Even for about a week after I stopped taking it, then it was back to what it was before. If it works for you then great. Insulin is already a fat retention molecular compound, thats why some beefcakes use it. Just eat a lot, I mean a solid meal every 4 hours and a snack 2 hours after, you are eating something every 2 hours. You start stackin the calories, stacking insulin and stacking plates on your bar...

btw, I doubt your doctor would no shit, my diabetic doctor is a fucking idiot LOL. Im sourcing a new one.. You should probably see a doctor though, get your feet and everything checked. How do you have a license if you dont see a doctor? Or did I just get the short end of the stick because I have to renew my license with medical every year

10 needles? WOW.... I honestly dont think I've ever taken that many in a day, no matter what kind of Buffet/junk-foot gala I attended.
I just take one for morning (Humalog, or "ultra-lente": the uber-fast acting stuff)
Humalog for lunch & dinner
Then for the night time dose, a mix of humalog & Humalin N.
Sometimes if I have a bit to eat or whatever I'll take an extra one or two in there somewhere, but thats it.

My diet is all over the map anyway and pretty much always has been over the decade I've been a diabetic. I noticed only the need to double my dose since I've been taking Creatine. I used to use 6 units for my Humalog does, now about 12-15 does the trick.
But I really have to start packing on the pounds. I'm stuck on a plate and half on the flat bench still, and its driving me nuts.

Thanks for the advice though about the calorie intake.
is there any uber-high calorie supplements I could take? or just buy shit loads of junk food?

nismodrifter
12-20-2007, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M


Thanks for the advice though about the calorie intake.
is there any uber-high calorie supplements I could take? or just buy shit loads of junk food?

Eat larger healthy meals more often through the day rather than 15 fucking mars bars lol. You want other nutrients for your body to go along with the calories.

Think of all the other shit coming along with the junk food, all those TFA etc aren't doing your body any good (unless your goals are to become a fatty).

Graham_A_M
12-20-2007, 07:15 PM
^ Yeah well 15 mars bars will send me to the hospital pretty fast, LOL.....but yeah I meant Wendy's and so on, just really fatty, calorie, carbohydrate rich foods.
Seems to be the way to go I see among pretty hardcore wieght lifters. :dunno:

Darkane
12-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ Yeah well 15 mars bars will send me to the hospital pretty fast, LOL.....but yeah I meant Wendy's and so on, just really fatty, calorie, carbohydrate rich foods.
Seems to be the way to go I see among pretty hardcore wieght lifters. :dunno:

Nooooooooo lol. That food is the devil anyway you look at it.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/index.htm

Just tons of articles. Read up, Berardi's articles are gold man.

If you have 250USD, call the man for an hour :D

nismodrifter
12-21-2007, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
^ Yeah well 15 mars bars will send me to the hospital pretty fast, LOL.....but yeah I meant Wendy's and so on, just really fatty, calorie, carbohydrate rich foods.
Seems to be the way to go I see among pretty hardcore wieght lifters. :dunno:

Just eat healthy food in higher quantities.

Canmorite
12-21-2007, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Hey guys. I figured nobody on here would give me a solid answer, but I thought I'd give it a shot regardless.

Truth is, diabetics can have whatever food, whenever. I haven't seen a doctor in about 5 years, because he said there was nothing he could teach me, apparently at the time my diabeties control/knowledge was amoung the top 5 best in Calgary. How he came up with that statistic? I dont know.
Yet diabetics can have as many calories as they want, as well as eat whatever, even slurpees.


You CAN eat all that shit, but you have to really increase your insulin dosage. Taking tons of insulin isn't great for you, either.

I won't say I've never cheated, but 99% of the time I'll say no and find something healthier/less sugar content to eat.

Sometimes chocolates are too hard to resist, though :devil:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070719141139.htm

blueripper6
12-22-2007, 08:28 PM
Insulin dosage depends on amount and type of carbohydrates. If you want to buff up, you gotta eat WHOLE carbohydrates, not mars bars which are just empty carbs filling the hole. Apples, oranges, whole wheat bread or pasta Basically something with a nutritional value.

Try eating every 2 hours. A meal followed 2 hours later with a small snack, 2 hours after eat another meal. You need to eat balanced meals and snacks, that means a proper mixture of protien, fat and carbohydrates. Yes, you need to eat all 3 for each meal/snack, eat the protein first (evens the release of the carbohydrates. I basically followed this

PER 9 GRAMS OF CARB
7 G of protien
1 G of Fat

Remember your body can only absorb about 30-45 grams of natural protien per sitting, anything more then that is just passed through your body(SHIT)

I took a nutrition course and was taught a lot about this program. It has worked great for me.

Btw.. ever heard of a product called Lantus? Its the next step in bolus dose insulin. No insulin spikes, no pronounced peaks. It really works for me, all the diabetics i know on it agree with me as well. Its new technology. Check it out.. http://www.lantus.com/

Seriously though, how the fuck do you drive if you havent seen a doctor in 5 years?

BTW.. whats your a1c levels? Be honest.

Pacman
12-22-2007, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by blueripper6


Btw.. ever heard of a product called Lantus? Its the next step in bolus dose insulin. No insulin spikes, no pronounced peaks. It really works for me, all the diabetics i know on it agree with me as well. Its new technology. Check it out.. http://www.lantus.com/



Lantus is a basal insulin

Graham_A_M
12-23-2007, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by blueripper6

Seriously though, how the fuck do you drive if you havent seen a doctor in 5 years?

BTW.. whats your a1c levels? Be honest.

Thanks for the tips, I'll check into that lantus thing right after I post this.

My A1c has been hovering around 6.9-7.1 for the majority of my years as a diabetic basically the last 8 of my 10 years;
I've never seen a doctor in the longest time since my understanding of the balancing act between insulin, activity & food is such that my doctor has nothing to teach me anymore.

I just know what to do, and how to handle everything, most people talk to their endocrinologist/diabeties specialist since they have questions of some sort. After I check out the link about that Lantus, maybe I'll then have some questions so for that I'll go see the doctor.... but every year I'd see him for the last three years I did, he'd just look over my blood sugar logbook, review my dosages and just smile and say "good job".
:dunno: ... okay... there wasn't too much point in taking half a day off work just to go downtown and year that every year, and since nothings really changed, why bother?
besides, I have a hard time taking advice or talking to people about the technicalities of Diabetes, when they dont have diabetes themselves.... I'm sure they were formally educated quite well about it, but since they dont ACTUALLY HAVE IT, I dont feel there is much I can earnestly learn from them, as a few times I was giving them the odd "well try this" sort of approach to dealing with other patients, the doctor didn't like being given advice about this patient complaining out in the hallway with some odd pattern of blood sugars, but he'd still listen eitherway :rofl: regardless if he wanted to or not
I had my A1c checked a year ago, and it was 6.8, and that was the first in some time...
:dunno:
But like you I still get my medicals done every year:)
but I dont count that as seeing a diabeties related doctor

blueripper6
12-23-2007, 10:14 PM
Wow.. You do have a good understanding haha.. I have been diabetic for about 4 years. Mine started around 10 for the first 2 years, then I realized that this is my life on the line, so I actually started caring lol.. They stay 8.2-7.5, Not great, time to get some bloodwork done, im sure this one will be the same. I know some diabetics who are rocking 10+ even 12, and thats years at these levels. Some people just dont get it, I know this guy who has had it since he was a little kid, had a heart attack months ago at age 19. He smokes a pack a day atleast and gets hammered every weekend.

The lantus is great, really. They dont even put kids on NPH or humalog anymore, thats outdated technology! No more thinking "damn.. did I mix it?????" I used to sketch about that all the time.