Honda s2000

[Anschutz_93]

Well im currently a 2G dsm addict; love the car but I am always working on it or just sucking up whatever problem it seems to aquire... Im definatly keeping the car over winter because of the awd factor but this spring/summer im going to get something newer and specifically a "summer only" car. Next year i begin university and will not be need my own car over the school term. I have decided that i will not go the turbo/sc route this time and i have a pasionate dislike for fwd cars. Through a couple hours of online research i've decided what i am interested in, a Honda s2000. It seems perfect: relatively cheap, reliable and displays reasonable performance. I wont be doing much for modifications other than intake, exhaust, cams and a stand alone system with a decent tune. This will be my only car for the next 4+ years of schooling and i definatly wont be putting many miles on it, or driving it over winter, so im hoping to pick up a *mint* example of this car with very low miles; and keep the car that way. I will be buying the car out of Arizona.
Now with all that said I still have a few questions about importing and the car itself.
1. Is there any modifications that must be done to a s2000 to import it (other than the standard day time running lights). I did check the list of admissible vehicles and it says i should be good to go.
2. Are there any specific areas i should be concerned with this car? I am looking specifically looking at 2000-2003 models. I was told that 2000 models had an issue with cylinder 1 being oil starved under hard driving/cornering if oil levels were low. Any other flaws?
3. I understand that in '02 a redesigned F20 the (F22) engine was thrown in to improve low range torque, is it a much better engine? (ei. would this car with the same mileage and condition of a 2001 model be worth an extra $3000)
4. Can you, and would you recomend removing the soft top completely out of the car, and instead just either use the car top down, or hardtop? how long does it take to install the hard top?
5. *unrelated to s2000* Would i have any legal issues arise if i insure this vehicle under my parents name for full coverage for the four months/year it would be insured? Im 17, no accidents, no tickets but i work too hard for my money to bend over and take it from some 6grand/year insurance rate. Would a refusal of payout be possible if an insurance company could prove i was the sole primary driver of the vehicle?
Well if you have read to this point thank you for your time, as always any thoughts/insight/knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. Im always willing to learn something new. (But being on a car forum theres always some wise-guy that will flame, chances are somebody will bring up the issue of a 17year-old punk buying a s2000 so before that issue arises: "no, mommy and daddy's money will not be involved in the purchase of this car"

[7thgenvic]

wrong engine to begin with.........you mean F20C for a S2K. that is my starting point before this thread gets going

[4doorj]

Originally posted by Anschutz_93

1. Is there any modifications that must be done to a s2000 to import it (other than the standard day time running lights). I did check the list of admissible vehicles and it says i should be good to go.
2. Are there any specific areas i should be concerned with this car? I am looking specifically looking at 2000-2003 models. I was told that 2000 models had an issue with cylinder 1 being oil starved under hard driving/cornering if oil levels were low. Any other flaws?
3. I understand that in '02 a redesigned F20 the (F22) engine was thrown in to improve low range torque, is it a much better engine? (ei. would this car with the same mileage and condition of a 2001 model be worth an extra $3000)
4. Can you, and would you recomend removing the soft top completely out of the car, and instead just either use the car top down, or hardtop? how long does it take to install the hard top?
5. *unrelated to s2000* Would i have any legal issues arise if i insure this vehicle under my parents name for full coverage for the four months/year it would be insured? Im 17, no accidents, no tickets but i work too hard for my money to bend over and take it from some 6grand/year insurance rate. Would a refusal of payout be possible if an insurance company could prove i was the sole primary driver of the vehicle?


1. just the day time running lights like what u said

2. clutch buss, 00-01 has plastic window thats the one thing i didnt like, thats why i upgraded to the 02. look for tears in the softtop

3. the 10 more tq motor 2.2 liter was brought out in 04 not 02, including new headlights/tailights/bumpers, and other stuff, 00-03 is ap1 04+ is ap2. but u loose the 9k rev in the ap2 which i love

4. i think the soft top removal and re install is 8 hour list job, so 4 hours probably just to take it off, too much of a hassle. are u planning on making this a complete track car??? if not i would leave the soft top there. ive never installed the hardtop kit in a s2000 before... but taking it on and off is a simple quick job

hope that helped, let me know if u have any other questions

[GTS Jeff]

The F22C comes in the 04+ with a better powerband, shorter gearing, and more HP and TQ (though Honda didn't officially announce it)..making it fun and peppy around town. I originally wanted an AP1 with a F20C since it's cheaper, but having driven many of those around, I found them unstreetably slow. The AP2 is much faster on the street. I'll sell you mine and pass on the USDM discount too.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
wrong engine to begin with.........you mean F20C for a S2K. that is my starting point before this thread gets going


wrong Jonny...

[AVA]

PM'd if you're even thinking of buying GTSJeff's car. Lulz

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by AVA
PM'd if you're even thinking of buying GTSJeff's car. Lulz Too pussy to troll on me publicly? :rofl: What more can we expect from TNation? Oh wait, I know...for him to come crawling back after he's been banned 16 times...

[finboy]

jeff takes crazy good care of his cars, why you thinking of getting rid of it jeff?

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I'd buy GTS Jeff car. S2000 = Sexy

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by finboy
jeff takes crazy good care of his cars, why you thinking of getting rid of it jeff? Can't really afford owning two new cars as a student haha. :D

[AVA]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Too pussy to troll on me publicly? :rofl: What more can we expect from TNation? Oh wait, I know...for him to come crawling back after he's been banned 16 times...

um no. I wouldn't buy a car from Edmonton thats been driven by a student. I'd rather get a car fresh from Arizona, corrosion free.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by AVA


um no. I wouldn't buy a car from Edmonton thats been driven by a student. I'd rather get a car fresh from Arizona, corrosion free.

Why not? The depreciation hit was already taken, the warantee is GUARANTEED, no need for lots of paperwork. A local car thats almost brand new would be MUCH better.

[finboy]

Originally posted by AVA


um no. I wouldn't buy a car from Edmonton thats been driven by a student. I'd rather get a car fresh from Arizona, corrosion free.

...you idiot, he bought it this summer and they haven't even started salting the roads

[AVA]

well Jeff's lawyers, at the end of the day, he wants a " *mint* example of this car with very low miles; and keep the car that way. I will be buying the car out of Arizona. "
not Deadmonton lulz. Is there an Arizona in Edmonton? Just wondering, correct me if I'm wrong ;)


Originally posted by finboy


...you idiot, he bought it this summer and they haven't even started salting the roads

how was I supposed to know that? c'mon chump, not everyone is 4th gear beyond4lyfers

[toomuchb00st]

your a goof ^^

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by AVA
well Jeff's lawyers, at the end of the day, he wants a " *mint* example of this car with very low miles; and keep the car that way. 4 month old car with 9500km, 6500km are highway miles from the drive from Socal. :dunno:

[heavyD]

Anyone notice that the author of this thread is banned?:dunno:

[gpomp]

Originally posted by heavyD
Anyone notice that the author of this thread is banned?:dunno: i noticed that tnation got banned for the 20th time.

[DJ@work]

isn't the the thread title asking for a 2000 to 2003 S2K, not a 2007 S2K?

[rc2002]

Wow you have a new account already? That was fast!

[tawheed]

best car ever - get an '02 or '03

[finboy]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Wow you have a new account already? That was fast!

his hatred of jeff runs deep :rofl:

[DJ@work]

TNation is also a Second Gear member who posts w other accounts. We both get sick of how arrogant Jeff can be, therefore Jeff provides lots of lulz for all the hellishly boring History/Bio/English classes for us.

[Tuner1]

Honda S2000s get a big :thumbsup: from me!

Don't stress too much about the year, just buy the best car that you can afford. Sure the 2.2L cars might be better but don't pass up buying an S2000 or put yourself into big debt to get one because a good 'ol 2000 or 2001 is still a hoot to drive.

These are one of the only true sports cars still available in North America.

Rob

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DJ@work
TNation is also a Second Gear member who posts w other accounts. We both get sick of how arrogant Jeff can be, therefore Jeff provides lots of lulz for all the hellishly boring History/Bio/English classes for us. Come on Tyler, has your anger driven you to madness and schizophrenia now?

Lulz! Lulz! Lulz! :rolleyes:

[Fadi]

AP1FTW

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by jdmsp33d
AP1FTW

because they are slower?

[gpomp]

no, because they have snap oversteer

[A790]

...

lulz?

[Fadi]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


because they are slower?


nah i just like the more raw feel of the AP1...thats just my opinion....and they are pretty comparable in speed....

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by jdmsp33d



nah i just like the more raw feel of the AP1...thats just my opinion....and they are pretty comparable in speed....

You mean the raw feel of no torque, ammirite?

[shadowz]

I wish I could have both :(

[arian_ma]

Where is the "AP1 = AP2, STFU" picture when you need it?

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


You mean the raw feel of no torque, ammirite? No he means the extra 800rpm...AP2 might as well be a Buick with only 8200rpms to rev to.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma
Where is the "AP1 = AP2, STFU" picture when you need it?

why? because its not true?

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


why? because its not true?

:rolleyes: good one, all on your own that time too eh?
EDIT:
DuTtLYhFJT4
Pretty even there...no?

It's personal preference, you can keep talking out of your ass if you want to though.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma


:rolleyes: good one, all on your own that time too eh?


It's personal preference, you can keep talking out of your ass if you want to though.

hmm, so you are basing this argument on one video.. ok. I see that the AP2 with the F22C is in front... the whole way....hmmm

either way, AP1 =/ AP2. Thats all im saying. I do perfer the AP2 over the AP1, and they are not the same. period.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by arian_ma
Pretty even there...no? Exactly, they're even when driven at the limits at the track by professionals. But on the street, when driven by amateurs, the AP2 is faster in a straightline with more power and better gearing, corners more predictably, all that....and more comfortable riding too!

There's a reason why AP2s are worth more...

[gpomp]

[insert comment about ap1 > ap2 l haven driven neither]

[Toms-SC]

Seeing how this thread is shit already. gpomp if you really are in Texas I could use you to bring me back some Mexican food. :hitit:

[gpomp]

sure dude, you want something from on the border or don pablos?

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


because they are slower?

I was merely commenting in regard to Team_Mclaren's constant and almost always idiotic comments in every thread. Slower? Well, I showed you a video proving they are not. The AP2 was ahead at the launch, and yes, it has more straight line acceleration, but it never pulled away from the AP1. I agree with you Jeff, I would rather own an AP2 as well, but faster on the streets? Faster to what? The 60 km/h speed limit? faster at cornering through Edgemont?

Like I said, I agree with you that the AP2 is more comfortable and I'd rather own one because of the luxuries offered with that MY, but that is only mine (and your) personal preference. Neither is a "better" car per-say, just different.


Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


hmm, so you are basing this argument on one video.. ok. I see that the AP2 with the F22C is in front... the whole way....hmmm

either way, AP1 =/ AP2. Thats all im saying. I do perfer the AP2 over the AP1, and they are not the same. period.

Yeah, and I agree with you, I just don't get why some of your comments are contradictory.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma


I was merely commenting in regard to Team_Mclaren's constant and almost always idiotic comments in every thread. Slower? Well, I showed you a video proving they are not. The AP2 was ahead at the launch, and yes, it has more straight line acceleration, but it never pulled away from the AP1. I agree with you Jeff, I would rather own an AP2 as well, but faster on the streets? Faster to what? The 60 km/h speed limit? faster at cornering through Edgemont?


more straight line acceleration is faster... right? or does that mean slower?

[arian_ma]

Better cornering could also mean "faster", or even better braking could lead to better lap times...
Also, yes, I am basing all my judgment on one video, I just don't know what you're basing yours on...

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma
Better cornering could also mean "faster", or even better braking could lead to better lap times...

so is the AP1 better at braking? or faster around the corners?

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


so is the AP1 better at braking? or faster around the corners?

You're a smart guy, why don't you think about it for a second.
AP2 accelerates faster, but at the end, their lap times were almost identical. WHAT HAPPENED?!

[Toms-SC]

:rofl:

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma


You're a smart guy, why don't you think about it for a second.
AP2 accelerates faster, but at the end, their lap times were almost identical. WHAT HAPPENED?!

but the F22C s2k is in front... and posts a faster laptime...? isnt that faster>?
actually, both cars were AP2s... one with F22C, one with F20C.... so the F22C is faster no? or does that make your "proof" irrelevant...?

your videos means fuck all because if you look closely, they are both AP2s:rofl: :rofl:

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


but the F22C s2k is in front... and posts a faster laptime...? isnt that faster>?
actually, both cars were AP2s... one with F22C, one with F20C.... so the F22C is faster no? or does that make your "proof" irrelevant...?

your videos means fuck all because if you look closely, they are both AP2s:rofl: :rofl:

Actually, if you look closely, you will notice that the F20 actually posted the faster lap times. I'm not sure if you're familiar with numbers, but a smaller number means faster average speed. Anyways, your argument is not really about the AP2 as a whole I don't think, as well, Jeff said that the car is more streetable. The suspension tweaks are mostly minor and the AP2 is the heavier of the two cars, so if anything, the engine is going to make the most impact, and in that video, I showed you that they are essentially the same. I don't know why you are still arguing about this...

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma


Actually, if you look closely, you will notice that the F20 actually posted the faster lap times. I'm not sure if you're familiar with numbers, but a smaller number means faster average speed. Anyways, your argument is not really about the AP2 as a whole I don't think, as well, Jeff said that the car is more streetable. The suspension tweaks are mostly minor and the AP2 is the heavier of the two cars, so if anything, the engine is going to make the most impact, and in that video, I showed you that they are essentially the same. I don't know why you are still arguing about this...

that proves nothing, because the argument is between an AP1 to and AP2... where the video has two AP2s. Regardless of what you say about weight and all that bench racing BS. It doesnt prove that AP1 = AP2... or that AP1 > AP2.... or that AP2 > AP1

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


that proves nothing, because the argument is between an AP1 to and AP2... where the video has two AP2s. Regardless of what you say about weight and all that bench racing BS. It doesnt prove that AP1 = AP2... or that AP1 > AP2.... or that AP2 > AP1

Did you even read my posts?


Originally posted by arian_ma

Like I said, I agree with you that the AP2 is more comfortable and I'd rather own one because of the luxuries offered with that MY, but that is only mine (and your) personal preference. Neither is a "better" car per-say, just different.


Also, bench racing? What? Have you even driven an S2K?

[Team_Mclaren]

so you contradicted yourself when you say "AP1=AP2"?

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren
so you contradicted yourself when you say "AP1=AP2"?

In terms of trackability, I will still stand by that comment.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma


In terms of trackability, I will still stand by that comment.

basing on A video? that an AP1 wasn't even present? or your personal experience on the track?

[LUCKYSTRIKE]

oh lord.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by LUCKYSTRIKE
oh lord.

lol, :werd:

im just bored

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


basing on A video? that an AP1 wasn't even present? or your personal experience on the track?

I don't know man, that video's all we've got, and it shows a whole lot more than anything you've tried to prove. Where is your personal experience from the comments you have made before? 5 minutes of driving someone else's S2000? or YOUR personal experience from the track?

[Skyline_Addict]

Subaru ftw! lol...good thread.

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
Subaru ftw! lol...good thread.

Hey man...blood pressure's up, don't make me come over there and kill you.
:rofl:

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by arian_ma


I don't know man, that video's all we've got, and it shows a whole lot more than anything you've tried to prove. Where is your personal experience from the comments you have made before? 5 minutes of driving someone else's S2000? or YOUR personal experience from the track?

my point is, they are different cars which behaves differently, track or street. This is basing on my 5 mins in someone else's s2000 and many others experience on the track. so in conclusion, AP1 =/ AP2

[GTS Jeff]

Hot Version Vol 2 - Battles at 10,000 rpm

Watch this and see how the AP2 schools the AP1. This is a true AP2 vs AP1 comparison and the AP2 is much faster. Pulls away from the AP1 at every corner.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren

but the F22C s2k is in front... and posts a faster laptime...? isnt that faster>?
actually, both cars were AP2s... one with F22C, one with F20C.... so the F22C is faster no? or does that make your "proof" irrelevant...?

your videos means fuck all because if you look closely, they are both AP2s:rofl: :rofl:



Originally posted by Team_Mclaren

that proves nothing, because the argument is between an AP1 to and AP2... where the video has two AP2s. Regardless of what you say about weight and all that bench racing BS. It doesnt prove that AP1 = AP2... or that AP1 > AP2.... or that AP2 > AP1



Originally posted by Team_Mclaren

so you contradicted yourself when you say "AP1=AP2"?



Originally posted by Team_Mclaren

basing on A video? that an AP1 wasn't even present? or your personal experience on the track?




Is it just me, or in these posts is Vince's ENGRISH top notch for him at least hahaha...

[4doorj]

Damn gts jeff and team mclaren, you guys are sooo annoying.
Who cares if they like their ap1's better then ap2's.
Sure maybe you did prove them wrong, but u guys are sooo cocky and annoying.

The ap2 isnt even that much faster, i know people that like the looks of the ap1 better then ap2. I love the 9k rev, does that make me dumb??
Sure I love the appearance better on the ap2. I love the ap1 and ap2 equally.

They have their own opinion.,
especially gts jeff i see u just pissing everyone off here on beyond.
your one of those damn annoying cocky people!

[Fadi]

Originally posted by 4doorj
damn gts jeff and team mclaren, u guys are sooo annoying...
who cares if they like their ap1's better then ap2's...
sure maybe u did prove them wrong... but u guys are sooo cocky and annoying

the ap2 isnt even that much faster... i know people that like the looks of the ap1 better then ap2... i love the 9k rev... does that make me dumb??
sure i love the appearance better on the ap2.. i love the ap1 and ap2 equally

they have their own opinion...
especially gts jeff i see u just pissing everyone off here on beyond
your one of those damn annoying cocky people


true that !.....i just said it was my opinion no need to cut me up over it.....ur buick analogy really sucked balls too.....

[brandon]

HA Guy's!
A+ Thread!! Would read again!

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by 4doorj
Damn gts jeff and team mclaren, you guys are sooo annoying.
Who cares if they like their ap1's better then ap2's.
Sure maybe you did prove them wrong, but u guys are sooo cocky and annoying.

The ap2 isnt even that much faster, i know people that like the looks of the ap1 better then ap2. I love the 9k rev, does that make me dumb??
Sure I love the appearance better on the ap2. I love the ap1 and ap2 equally.

They have their own opinion.,
especially gts jeff i see u just pissing everyone off here on beyond.
your one of those damn annoying cocky people!

Cry some more.

[stevo 27]

i dont know why you guys are all arguing all honduhs suck period :devil:

[4doorj]

Originally posted by stevo 27
i dont know why you guys are all arguing all honduhs suck period :devil:

:rofl: :rofl:

[shadowz]

Originally posted by stevo 27
i dont know why you guys are all arguing all honduhs suck period :devil:

Thanks stevo, i honestly didnt know what i was thinking buying a honda :confused:

[Eleanor]

arian, what i think jeff meant by more streetable is that on the streets you don't really want to rev the shit out of your car all the time, which is where the "torque" (if you want to call it that :D) comes in.

As for the AP1 vs. AP2, try and drive them both and see which one suits you better. you can check out S2ki.com as well for debates and more info on all MYs. Can't we all just play nice? :angel:

And BTW mods, please do an IP ban on TNation cause beyond must be running out of user names by now :rofl:

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by 4doorj
Damn gts jeff and team mclaren, you guys are sooo annoying.
Who cares if they like their ap1's better then ap2's.
Sure maybe you did prove them wrong, but u guys are sooo cocky and annoying.

The ap2 isnt even that much faster, i know people that like the looks of the ap1 better then ap2. I love the 9k rev, does that make me dumb??
Sure I love the appearance better on the ap2. I love the ap1 and ap2 equally.

They have their own opinion.,
especially gts jeff i see u just pissing everyone off here on beyond.
your one of those damn annoying cocky people!

huh?opinion and fact are two very different things. We're arguing facts. Sure you can think that a 1986 civic is the greatest car in the world, but fact is its a pos, doesnt matter how you look at it. There's nothing cocky about an argument btw.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


huh?opinion and fact are two very different things. We're arguing facts. Sure you can think that a 1986 civic is the greatest car in the world, but fact is its a pos, doesnt matter how you look at it. There's nothing cocky about an argument btw.


WTF why you gotta pick on my Civic??:D

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by 4doorj
Damn gts jeff and team mclaren, you guys are sooo annoying.
Who cares if they like their ap1's better then ap2's.
Sure maybe you did prove them wrong, but u guys are sooo cocky and annoying.

The ap2 isnt even that much faster, i know people that like the looks of the ap1 better then ap2. I love the 9k rev, does that make me dumb??
Sure I love the appearance better on the ap2. I love the ap1 and ap2 equally.

They have their own opinion.,
especially gts jeff i see u just pissing everyone off here on beyond.
your one of those damn annoying cocky people! Damn deala, why you gotta hate?

I don't think I came across as soooo annoying when all I did was explain to the OP the differences between AP1 and AP2. Shit didn't hit the fan til useless posts like "AP1 FTW!!" showed up. :dunno:

You love your 8900 redline, I love my 8200 redline. 700rpm is nothing to fight over brah. I got nothing but :love: :love: :love: for a fellow s2k driver.

[Fadi]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Damn deala, why you gotta hate?

I don't think I came across as soooo annoying when all I did was explain to the OP the differences between AP1 and AP2. Shit didn't hit the fan til useless posts like "AP1 FTW!!" showed up. :dunno:

You love your 8900 redline, I love my 8200 redline. 700rpm is nothing to fight over brah. I got nothing but :love: :love: :love: for a fellow s2k driver.


haha funny jeff because i didnt say anything about redline behind my reasoning.....u assumed i did.....i just said i like the more raw feel of the Ap1 because we all know they made the Ap2 more DD friendly....show me where i stated that ap1 was better than ap2 because of the redline...i reaaaaaaaaaaaaallly want to know...

[4doorj]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


huh?opinion and fact are two very different things. We're arguing facts. Sure you can think that a 1986 civic is the greatest car in the world, but fact is its a pos, doesnt matter how you look at it. There's nothing cocky about an argument btw.



Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Damn deala, why you gotta hate?

I don't think I came across as soooo annoying when all I did was explain to the OP the differences between AP1 and AP2. Shit didn't hit the fan til useless posts like "AP1 FTW!!" showed up. :dunno:

You love your 8900 redline, I love my 8200 redline. 700rpm is nothing to fight over brah. I got nothing but :love: :love: :love: for a fellow s2k driver.

hahaha
yeah... i must of just been drinking some hatorade yesterday...
ap1 and ap2
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[EK 2.0]

S2k's are S2-gh3y's...hahaha


I dunno everyone else was stirring the pot

[Redlyne_mr2]

Stay tuned for next weeks episode where the EP3 Sir and EK Sir will battle it out on the forums..both winners in their owners minds.. but only one will be crowned the true king of the streets.

[EK 2.0]

The "R"'s are SUPPOSED to be capital letters Ryan...geez...hahaha...

[vietdood]

stock for stock ap2's are faster then ap1's due to the shorter gearing. they are about 0.3s faster in the 1/4. however if you swap the ap2 tranny over to the ap1 then the faster car would be based on the driver.