Chretien: Saying no to Iraq war was victory

[HondaRice]

Chretien: Saying no to Iraq war was victory

whatever happened to honorable leaders like him?

http://cfcn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/scfcn/CTVNews/20071122/chretien_interview_071122

[benyl]

Honorable?

I guess you missed AdScam.

[Supa Dexta]

he was crazy as hell, but he was alright in my books..

:thumbsup:

[finboy]

in spite of adscam, i am glad that he kept canada out of iraq

[rmk]

he is scum. although, he was right about iraq, and i admire his decision not to enter that war.

[benyl]

haha, being the skeptic I am, we probably stayed out of Iraq because we couldn't afford it. Adscam was taking all the money allocated for the military.

Not to mention the Business Development bank of Canada lending money to his friends...

[rc2002]

Originally posted by rmk
he is scum. although, he was right about iraq, and i admire his decision not to enter that war.

Exactly. One good decision doesn't excuse all the stupid ones and all the corruption and scandals. Goddamn liar said he would get rid of the GST too but nothing happened on that issue until the conservatives got in.

[01RedDX]

.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Let's not forget it was the conservatives who brought the GST in the first place.

After the Liberals increased the defecit exponentially....

[alloroc]

The price of some products did drop when the GST came in, and the price of most products should have dropped.

It was the retailers that took advantage of the tax and didn't lower prices to match the reduced taxes that they were paying (manufacturers tax)

Much like how retailers and manufacturers (especially in the automotive market) are currently taking advantage of the Canadian Dollar when in all fairness they should be lowering prices but they are not.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by benyl
haha, being the skeptic I am, we probably stayed out of Iraq because we couldn't afford it. Adscam was taking all the money allocated for the military.

Not to mention the Business Development bank of Canada lending money to his friends...

don't forget the gun registry

[HondaRice]

adscam? whatever he did, he didnt have the blood of a million people under his hands.

theres a difference between killing people or having a scandal or getting head by a 23 year old girl in an office.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by HondaRice
adscam? whatever he did, he didnt have the blood of a million people under his hands.

theres a difference between killing people or having a scandal or getting head by a 23 year old girl in an office.

So which do you think is worse, getting a BJ or wasting billions of tax dollars?

[benyl]

Originally posted by rotten42


don't forget the gun registry

Haha, totally forgot about that.

See, that is what time does. People forget and then think of him as an "honourable man."

[mark4091]

He's a moron, Yeah it was a good decision, but he had our military in shambles.

Not to mention the other shit his govenment did.

[Xtrema]

Taking credit for that is like me taking credit for the oil boom in Alberta.

[autosm]

The only correct thing he ever did in my eyes

[frozenrice]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Taking credit for that is like me taking credit for the oil boom in Alberta.

....and Al Gore for inventing the internet.

[jay42w8]

lol!.....give the kid a break...my guess is he's in grade 9 or 10...too young to remember what a fuckin dipshit Chretien was...and obviously brainwashed by the Anti-American bandwagon...good on him for being interested in world affairs though....keep reading son...you have a lot to learn.

[HondaRice]

ok honorable man or honorable decision .

notice the difference with harper?

[HondaRice]

Originally posted by jay42w8
lol!.....give the kid a break...my guess is he's in grade 9 or 10...too young to remember what a fuckin dipshit Chretien was...and obviously brainwashed by the Anti-American bandwagon...good on him for being interested in world affairs though....keep reading son...you have a lot to learn.

right...

I am not Anti American. I been interested in world affairs since I was a kid. 25 years ago.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Antonito


After the Liberals increased the defecit exponentially....

Who cancelled the order to buy all those helicopters in the 90's?

[jay42w8]

Originally posted by HondaRice


right...

I am not Anti American. I been interested in world affairs since I was a kid. 25 years ago.

you're over 25....damn....maybe you should go back to school....take an Intro International Relations course or something......:banghead:

[HondaRice]

Originally posted by jay42w8


you're over 25....damn....maybe you should go back to school....take an Intro International Relations course or something......:banghead:

i will get right to it!

i am just point out facts and my opinions. is that a crime on beyond?

[HondaRice]

Originally posted by HondaRice


i will get right to it!

i am just point out facts and my opinions. is that a crime on beyond?

and just because someone is educated makes them not an idiot?

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Who cancelled the order to buy all those helicopters in the 90's?

The Liberals.
Another stupid decision.
The helecopters that we were going to buy were going to be blackhawks or something similar and in larger numbers than the current amount of CH-146's we did acquire - see below...

Then the Liberals decided we really did need helicopters. By then they f'd up the budget so much the army had to buy griffins. Which are in my opinion total trash for well over half of the jobs we use them for. Not the least of which is that the Griffin (for reasons unknown) creates much larger amounts of static electricity than other helicopters when low to the ground. This is a real problem - especially with our special forces (jtf2)

[Toma]

When the modern wold realizes that what the US did in Iraq is nothing short of genocide approaching the scale of the holocaust.... they will thank old Creten for keeping us clean.

Several other studies now support the John Hopkins study....

1.25 million DEAD IRAQIS since the US invasion.


and 1 million dead between gulf 1 and gulf 2....

Crazy.

I hope history remembers this one correctly.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=14346

[alloroc]

Toma about the only thing you can do to change things is get a US citizenship, move south and get involved. Bitching about US politics on a Canadian web board will do you no good.

Yes to change things you must become what you hate ... an American.
<evil laugh>
MuuhaaaaaaMuaahaaa haaaa ahaahahahaaa.
</evil laugh>

Still doesn't change the fact that Chretien is also an idiot. I can say I did my part, he never got my vote.

[Toma]

^^^^
BULLSHIT.

This needs to be a HUGE story, so that next time we don't feel as torn, guilty...blah blah...

AND... the most important thing...
To Support Our Troops....
....by getting them the fuck out of another place we don't belong... Afghanistan.

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by Toma



AND... the most important thing...
To Support Our Troops....
....by getting them the fuck out of another place we don't belong... Afghanistan.

Stephen Harper is a follower, not a leader. ... He likes doing Bushes dirty work.. Harper and Bush seems to share the same roots in controversial philosophy....

[mark4091]

Yeah harper's such a warlord with his mass army of 2000 soldiers :rolleyes:

[rmk]

Originally posted by ICEBERG


Stephen Harper is a follower, not a leader. ... He likes doing Bushes dirty work.. Harper and Bush seems to share the same roots in controversial philosophy....

moron.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Toma
^^^^
BULLSHIT.

This needs to be a HUGE story, so that next time we don't feel as torn, guilty...blah blah...

AND... the most important thing...
To Support Our Troops....
....by getting them the fuck out of another place we don't belong... Afghanistan.

I'm not guilty. I still wish we had the resources to go To Iraq. That is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.

but that isn't what this thread is about.

This thread is about Chretien

I bet you didn't know that Canada did offer to help in Iraq before Chretien did his holier than thou crusade?
We did offer to help the US with planes and pilots. Only trouble is we ran out of smart bombs in Kosovo and we had no logistical support so the US politely said 'no thanks' It was then that Chretien starting spouting out what a great decision he made in not going. (What a standup guy hey?)

Being that you are such a believer in polls.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/10/18/afghan-poll.html
I believe this poll more than I do yours.
We belong in Afganistan.

[BigMass]

Chretien was a lying piece of shit scum that only made the decision to stay out of Iraq due to politics. If it was politically popular and financially advantageous to go to war in Iraq he would have sent his own mother to die over there.

I’m glad we stayed out of Iraq but I have no respect for Chretien as a person or for what he did as Prime Minister.

[TimG]

HRDC
adscam
gun registy
Shawinigate/BDC
GST


off with his head.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by BigMass
Chretien was a lying piece of shit scum that only made the decision to stay out of Iraq due to politics. If it was politically popular and financially advantageous to go to war in Iraq he would have sent his own mother to die over there.

Any politician with a hope of getting re-elected would fall into this category.


I’m glad we stayed out of Iraq but I have no respect for Chretien as a person or for what he did as Prime Minister.

I'm no J.C. fan, but nobody can retain their integrity as leader of this country. Regions will always be alienated or favoured, election promises will always be broken, scandals will always pop up. Its what makes it just so darn fun to watch. The only thing preventing Harper from looking like a complete idiot is the fact that he doesn't have a majority and needs to watch what he does. Hell, the only reason he's even Prime Minister is because PMPM just couldn't recover from the Liberals legacy of the 90s.

J.C. was a bad leader, Mulroney was a fuck up, Trudeau was the devil incarnate, the list just goes on and on, no prime minister can be respected.

[Toma]

Originally posted by alloroc


I'm not guilty. I still wish we had the resources to go To Iraq. That is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
.

True, you are entitled... but calling my stance an "opinion" is incorrect.

Your position is an opinion, since its founded in your beliefs, experience and upbringing (however faulty and crazy that may have been), mine is not, mine is a FACT since its based on sound moral, logical, and intelligently proven principles..... ie, an opinion stops being an opinion when it is proven and verified. :poosie:

[finboy]

Originally posted by alloroc


I'm not guilty. I still wish we had the resources to go To Iraq.


oh dear god :banghead: :rofl:

[Antonito]

^^ tell me about it. What do these people need to happen to realise that it's a failed clusterfuck?

[TimG]

maybe i'm interpreting this wrong, but he said that he wished that we had the resources to go to iraq, not that we were there.

I too wish we had the resources to be able to go to iraq (i.e. transport ships, planes, helicopters, etc).

[Antonito]

^^ you're interpretting it wrong

[mark4091]

Originally posted by Toma


True, you are entitled... but calling my stance an &quot;opinion&quot; is incorrect.

Your position is an opinion, since its founded in your beliefs, experience and upbringing (however faulty and crazy that may have been), mine is not, mine is a FACT since its based on sound moral, logical, and intelligently proven principles..... ie, an opinion stops being an opinion when it is proven and verified. :poosie:

Why don't you respond to his poll? oh....right, you're just going on and on about you're "facts".

[sputnik]

Originally posted by benyl
haha, being the skeptic I am, we probably stayed out of Iraq because we couldn't afford it. Adscam was taking all the money allocated for the military.

Not to mention the Business Development bank of Canada lending money to his friends...

Exactly.

Canada stayed out of Iraq because most of our soldiers were already in Afghanistan and on other peace keeping missions.

What were we going to send?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma
AND... the most important thing...
To Support Our Troops....
....by getting them the fuck out of another place we don't belong... Afghanistan.

I am curious. What is your opinion of Ron Paul?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by ICEBERG


Stephen Harper is a follower, not a leader. ... He likes doing Bushes dirty work.. Harper and Bush seems to share the same roots in controversial philosophy....

Got any examples or are you just talking out of your ass?

[BigMass]

Originally posted by sputnik


I am curious. What is your opinion of Ron Paul?

rofl loaded question. Why dont you start a new thread on that, i bet it hits 10 pages.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by sputnik


Exactly.

Canada stayed out of Iraq because most of our soldiers were already in Afghanistan and on other peace keeping missions.

What were we going to send?

We could've just done like the Americans and cut and run on Afghanistan.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

926,819 DEAD Canadians since the US invasion. Canada has a population of 33,390,141 and Iraq one of 27,499,638.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo07a.htm

Seems your 1.25 million has now been diminished to in and around 300,000. Probably less as the standard of living is much higher in Canada. This is still bad but not comparable to genocide or a holocaust by any means. In addition, there is no systematic murder of Iraqi's and most of those deaths are attributed to hate crimes between Sects.


Originally posted by Toma
When the modern wold realizes that what the US did in Iraq is nothing short of genocide approaching the scale of the holocaust.... they will thank old Creten for keeping us clean.

Several other studies now support the John Hopkins study....

1.25 million DEAD IRAQIS since the US invasion.


and 1 million dead between gulf 1 and gulf 2....

Crazy.

I hope history remembers this one correctly.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&amp;ItemID=14346

[alloroc]

This issue is complicated.

Do I think Iraq should never have been invaded (the second time) ... yes.

Knowing that the US was going in with or without us do I think that if we had the proper resources we would have made a difference had we gone? Yes.

Given our economic and military situation at the time I think staying out of Iraq was a good idea but staying out was not a decision made by the Liberals. They had no choice, see my points above. For them to call a decision they had no alternative to a "victory" is absolute bunk.

That said.

Make no mistake, if we had the resources to go at the time we would be involved (whether right or wrong). We have sent one Token officer to assist the Americans with logistics. Planning logistics is something we are very good at. We also sent some of our ships to assist in patrolling shipping in and out of the country. For several tours of Duty the Canadians were in charge of the whole operation. Why? Because of superior training, negotiating skills, and boarding tactics. We saved lives. We would have even done better if we had more access to better helicopters (see above)

The Americans were going into Iraq with or without help. No amount of bitching whining or complaining would have changed that fact. The number of bodies 'killed in action' by allied forces would not have changed one way or the other. BUT If we had gone with proper resources we would have made a difference (a small difference, but any positive difference is a step in the right direction). Our mobile water purifying technology is the best in the world. We would have saved lives, no question. Having more -non US- presence would have helped with partisan negotiations saving lives. Canadian military engineering assitance with broken oilfeild equipment would have helped the economy. Canadian assistance in police training would have made a difference, saving lives.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Antonito


We could've just done like the Americans and cut and run on Afghanistan.

WTF?
The americans did not cut and run in Afganistan.
They are still there.

[finboy]

Originally posted by alloroc


WTF?
The americans did not cut and run in Afganistan.
They are still there.

in extremely reduced numbers, most of them are in iraq :thumbsup:

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by alloroc

Make no mistake, if we had the resources to go at the time we would be involved (whether right or wrong).

It was a political move, we wouldn't have gone. The U.S. would have gladly taken moral support, we didn't give it.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by alloroc


WTF?
The americans did not cut and run in Afganistan.
They are still there.

They've left maintenance forces at best.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by finboy


in extremely reduced numbers, most of them are in iraq :thumbsup:

They have been reduced and replaced by allied Nato forces.
But they are still there.

Again more non US presence makes a difference with local warlords and the forces that are there are doing a VERY good job. Better than what the US would do alone with fewer deaths and more developmental progress. Which backs up my statements about involvement in Iraq.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by alloroc


They have been reduced and replaced by allied Nato forces.
But they are still there.

Again more non US presence makes a difference with local warlords and the forces that are there are doing a VERY good job. Better than what the US would do alone with fewer deaths and more developmental progress. Which backs up my statements about involvement in Iraq.

Wonderful idea. Lets sacrifice outselves to help bail out America. Because they sure were gracious when we didn't help them.

And they haven't been replaced. Reduced yes, which is kind of the point.

[Toma]

FREEDOM FRIES!

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Antonito


Wonderful idea. Lets sacrifice outselves to help bail out America. Because they sure were gracious when we didn't help them.

And they haven't been replaced. Reduced yes, which is kind of the point.

That is not the point of this thread.

but We are needed in afganistan. See the CBC poll.
I am glad the Taliban has lost control.

We did offer the US help in Iraq

In January of 1998 our military brass met with the US we offered planes and pilots, ships, troops and transport aircraft.
- Don't ask me how I know this ;)

The US accepted, ships, troops, and transport aircraft.
Chretien then announced he would send these ...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/crs/98-114.htm


Chretien then actually sent, ships and transport aircraft and politically denied involvement.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by alloroc


That is not the point of this thread.

but We are needed in afganistan. See the CBC poll.
I am glad the Taliban has lost control.

We did offer the US help in Iraq

In January of 1998 our military brass met with the US we offered planes and pilots, ships, troops and transport aircraft.
- Don't ask me how I know this ;)

The US accepted, ships, troops, and transport aircraft.
Chretien then announced he would send these ...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/crs/98-114.htm


Chretien then actually sent, ships and transport aircraft and politically denied involvement.

As has been said before in this thread, Chretien is a douche. And it still doesn't change that the war in Iraq is stupid, unnecesary, illegal.... I'm just glad we didn't validate this farce, whether Chretien meant to or not

[HondaRice]

Originally posted by Toma
^^^^
BULLSHIT.

This needs to be a HUGE story, so that next time we don't feel as torn, guilty...blah blah...

AND... the most important thing...
To Support Our Troops....
....by getting them the fuck out of another place we don't belong... Afghanistan.


best qoute ever. we dont belong there, well as peace keeping, is good but we switched roles.

[01RedDX]

.

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


no, the best quote ever is in my sig, but wtf we switched roles? when did that happen? i guess Toma has a new fanboy

I hope you do realize that this is not a peacekeeping mission anymore.... It is a war mission. Do a research on the Polls done by adult canadians, almost 60% of Canadians think this has turned into war mission and want the troops out of there.