investing in New Brunswick

[Subwoofah]

Is this the next big boom city? I'm thinking of going to Saint John, NB and buying some rental property there. Anyone else doing the same?

[ScottysZ]

Why do you think that? Just curious if im missing something?

[88CRXGUY]

Maybe it because we never thought that Sask would have a boom, so I guess anything is possible.

[Subwoofah]

lots of jobs, HUGE oil refinery, proposed 2nd refinery, US is hungry for more oil and prefers Canada over most other nations, and lastly very cheap housing

[1boy]

Here's my quick 2 cents on NB:

I just went to MLS.ca and found a random listing for a duplex in Saint John:

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=&SearchURL=%3fPage%3d3%26Mode%3d0%26vs%3dResidential%26ret%3d300%26sts%3d0-0%26beds%3d0-0%26baths%3d0-0%26bt%3d2%26aid%3d3450%26MapURL%3d%253fAreaID%253d3450%26mp%3d0-0-0%26mrt%3d0-0-4%26trt%3d2%26of%3d1%26ps%3d10%26o%3dA&Mode=0&PropertyID=5921967

Interest rates are between 3.5-6.25% (in my opinion are pretty low and makes the properties there pretty affordable.)

Ref: http://www.canequity.com/mortgage_services.stm
-(I’m not sure how accurate the site is nor how up to date it is)

Anyways, according to the mls listing... lets just round the price of the home to 100k. Assuming you don't want to deal with CMHC, you put 25% down... which is a 25K investment.
You get a mortgage for 75k at let's say 6.25% (highest rate found on the referenced site) your monthly payments turns out to be: $494.75 on a 25yr amoritization.

The upper floor rents for 500 and the lower floor for 800... that means you net $1350/month

Minus property taxes and maintenance fee's (I'm just guessing a number around $300/month) you walk away with over $550 per month... that's a $6600/yr if it's rented out year round. (26.4% ROI!)

Being less optimistic and let's say you only get 8/12 months occupied you still end up with 4400/year +/- (cashflow) that alone is a 17.6% ROI… (and that's not even including possible appreaciation of the property or the principle you pay off your mortgage) which is huge- compared to mutual funds.
Unemployment rate as of Oct 07 is 5.1% which is still less than the national average at 6.1%... which means that there are jobs that are pulling more people into the area...
Ref: http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/citytrend.pdf
(calgary is at 3.2 or 3.1)
I’m not familiar with the economics there, so I wouldn’t know how much you would expect to gain/lose with respect to appreciation.
But by just looking at the possible cashflow alone your making 18% ROI… in that sense I think it’s definitely a good investment… unless you’re expecting Real estate in the area to drop by 7% anytime soon. But like you said you are expecting more oil refineries… so appreciation should be above inflation rate.

Looking at other properties… they all look pretty profitable.

All in all… Saint John’s NB looks pretty good place to me.

... could you maybe expand on why you think there will be more jobs, and what sources you are using about the oil refineries and such and such...
let me know. thanks,

sht, i just noticed
I forgot to include realtor fees... and I'm not sure what the laws is about renting over there... so that's something you should definitely look into if you are planning to put money in.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by 88CRXGUY
Maybe it because we never thought that Sask would have a boom, so I guess anything is possible.

Yeah I'd put my money on Estevan first, I think it has potential to be Sask.'s "Fort Mac" but without the northern remote community associated problems. :dunno:

[Jlude]

Originally posted by 1boy
[B]All in all… Saint John’s NB looks pretty good place to me.



I grew up in Saint John... It's a hole... I'm not just saying that because I grew up there... I'm sayint that because the weather is terrible (fog most of the summer) and the city is literally FULL of drugs... it's terrible.

However, there is a TON of work coming up... they're building another refinery (the first one was at one point the largest in North America), also there will be a new power plant being built.

I don't think that it's going to be a BOOM city...there will be steady work...

IMO... it's a good place to buy investment property (I've already purchased one), the amount of workers that are going to come into the city to build the refinery will be insane and the rental rates are gonna skyrocket.


If you have any questions about the city or anything, I'd be happy to answer them, doubt there's anyone else on beyond from SJ.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
Is this the next big boom city? I'm thinking of going to Saint John, NB and buying some rental property there. Anyone else doing the same?

West to East. Saskatchewan you're too late for if you want to get in at ground level. Maybe try Manitoba...

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by 1boy
......
The upper floor rents for 500 and the lower floor for 800... that means you net $1350/month
...


IMO this is where your argument falls apart.

good lucking renting places for that much out there where unemployment is so high.

Those are average to high prices in Vernon and your basement suit is about $300.00 less than calgary prices. (I pay 925 in Bridgeland near the bridges development for an apartment on the top floor with a balcony that looks to the CT and Bankers hall)

I think you could rent the WHOLE house for 8 or 9, and then you have to make sure you go out and take care of the place.

[Tik-Tok]

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's going to be a boom city, it'll just employee everyone already there (in 6 month shifts of course, nobody in NB wants to work more than they have to to get their EI again)

[Jlude]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Yeah, I wouldn't say it's going to be a boom city, it'll just employee everyone already there (in 6 month shifts of course, nobody in NB wants to work more than they have to to get their EI again)

100% Correct sir.

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by Jlude
If you have any questions about the city or anything, I'd be happy to answer them, doubt there's anyone else on beyond from SJ.

I grew up in NS not in SJ NB but I have spent quite some time there as I have lived in Sussex NB for quite a while as well. So I should be able to shed some light on SJ as well..

[Subwoofah]

I'm buying a house this Jan... 5% tax should help right?

Oh and are there any good property managers to recommend?

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
I'm buying a house this Jan... 5% tax should help right?

Oh and are there any good property managers to recommend?

http://lennyboudreau.point2agent.com/New_Brunswick/page_2510.html

Get in touch with Lenny, he would know the market real well, I know lots of people that have bought homes through him. I am sure he will be more then helpful with anything you need to know..

EDIT: Lenny is a real estate agent, but again I am sure he can help with anything you need to know.

[Jlude]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
I'm buying a house this Jan... 5% tax should help right?

Oh and are there any good property managers to recommend?

don't know any... just have family look after everything!

[Subwoofah]

:)
\\\The oil company///
http://www.irvingoil.com/company/erock.asp
:thumbsup:

[Jlude]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
:)
\\\The oil company///
http://www.irvingoil.com/company/erock.asp
:thumbsup:

Irving is brutal...

They own New Brunswick...

[Subwoofah]

Originally posted by 1boy

... could you maybe expand on why you think there will be more jobs, and what sources you are using about the oil refineries and such and such...
let me know. thanks,


lets just say i'm waiting for 2009-2010... and certain reports and maps to finish.

[1boy]

Originally posted by brendankharris



IMO this is where your argument falls apart.

good lucking renting places for that much out there where unemployment is so high.

Those are average to high prices in Vernon and your basement suit is about $300.00 less than calgary prices. (I pay 925 in Bridgeland near the bridges development for an apartment on the top floor with a balcony that looks to the CT and Bankers hall)

I think you could rent the WHOLE house for 8 or 9, and then you have to make sure you go out and take care of the place.


Like I said earlier, I got those numbers straight from the mls listing itself... if you check my post I referenced the mls listing. From the description it clearly says that the property is a Duplex and that the upstairs currently rents for $500 and lower unit rents for $850.

I didn't believe it at first either... before I saw this thread, I never even looked into NB. With that being said I don't know whether or not the economy will bring the values in the are up or down in the near future. But based on doing some quick and dirty research on mls.ca, the rent is actually pretty high and you can really profit from cashflow.

Every city is different, you can't compare the rent from one geographic area to the next. It just doesn't make sense.
In the end of the day it's not what you think the property its worth it's what the market thinks. And the best way to do that is just research I guess.

like this Triplex selling for $125,000...based on the description it's net income is $1877.

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=&SearchURL=%3fMode%3d0%26Page%3d1%26vs%3dResidential%26ret%3d300%26sts%3d0-0%26beds%3d0-0%26baths%3d0-0%26bt%3d3%26aid%3d6370%26MapURL%3d%253fAreaID%253d3450%26tte%3d1%26tt%3d1%252c2%26mp%3d0-0-0%26mrt%3d0-0-4%26trt%3d2%26of%3d1%26ps%3d10%26o%3dA&Mode=0&PropertyID=6268880

if you put 25% down, your mortgage payment would be at most will be $620, depending on the interest rate.
Minus property tax and maintaining the property your still going to make a good return.

[ScottysZ]

Originally posted by 1boy

Every city is different, you can't compare the rent from one geographic area to the next. It just doesn't make sense.
In the end of the day it's not what you think the property its worth it's what the market thinks. And the best way to do that is just research I guess.

like this Triplex selling for $125,000...based on the description it's net income is $1877.

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=&SearchURL=%3fMode%3d0%26Page%3d1%26vs%3dResidential%26ret%3d300%26sts%3d0-0%26beds%3d0-0%26baths%3d0-0%26bt%3d3%26aid%3d6370%26MapURL%3d%253fAreaID%253d3450%26tte%3d1%26tt%3d1%252c2%26mp%3d0-0-0%26mrt%3d0-0-4%26trt%3d2%26of%3d1%26ps%3d10%26o%3dA&Mode=0&PropertyID=6268880

if you put 25% down, your mortgage payment would be at most will be $620, depending on the interest rate.
Minus property tax and maintaining the property your still going to make a good return.

Sorry dude, but i dont believe that for a second. You might be just posting what youre seeing, but if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

[Jlude]

Originally posted by 1boy



Like I said earlier, I got those numbers straight from the mls listing itself... if you check my post I referenced the mls listing. From the description it clearly says that the property is a Duplex and that the upstairs currently rents for $500 and lower unit rents for $850.

I didn't believe it at first either... before I saw this thread, I never even looked into NB. With that being said I don't know whether or not the economy will bring the values in the are up or down in the near future. But based on doing some quick and dirty research on mls.ca, the rent is actually pretty high and you can really profit from cashflow.

Every city is different, you can't compare the rent from one geographic area to the next. It just doesn't make sense.
In the end of the day it's not what you think the property its worth it's what the market thinks. And the best way to do that is just research I guess.

like this Triplex selling for $125,000...based on the description it's net income is $1877.

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=&SearchURL=%3fMode%3d0%26Page%3d1%26vs%3dResidential%26ret%3d300%26sts%3d0-0%26beds%3d0-0%26baths%3d0-0%26bt%3d3%26aid%3d6370%26MapURL%3d%253fAreaID%253d3450%26tte%3d1%26tt%3d1%252c2%26mp%3d0-0-0%26mrt%3d0-0-4%26trt%3d2%26of%3d1%26ps%3d10%26o%3dA&Mode=0&PropertyID=6268880

if you put 25% down, your mortgage payment would be at most will be $620, depending on the interest rate.
Minus property tax and maintaining the property your still going to make a good return.



I'll just throw something at ya...

To start, the building is 100 years old... you're gonna be going through repairs like crazy.. you're gonna have tenants complaining to get EVERY little thing fixed.

Growing up I had friends buying dope from that building... that just tells you what kind of tenants you're gonna have. Of course not EVERYONE is going to be like that, but for that area, most likely yes.
Like a couple people have posted, the city has a high unemployement rate. You're going to have difficulties/headaches trying to collect rent. You may wanna go through a property manangement company which will help but also cut into your return.


Best advice I can give you is buy a decent little house or duplex in a decent neighbourhood that will attract a better tenant.


I do agree that you will be able to make money with a rental property in Saint John. I bought mine 6 months ago and I've been very please... and I only bought a 3 bedroom townhouse for 60k.

The tripex you're referring to is a bad idea, if you're very serious about this and would like advice about where to buy in the city, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

[1boy]

Originally posted by ScottysZ


Sorry dude, but i dont believe that for a second. You might be just posting what youre seeing, but if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Hey Scotty,

I totally understand where you're coming from... I felt the same way about it... but unless somebody can prove to me that it's rent is not really as good as it seems (with some sort of solid evidence) I'll have to trust the statistics.

According to CMHC the average rent for a Two bedroom in 2007 is:
Saint John: $570
Moncton: $650
Fredericton: $710


Ref (pg4-6):
http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/collection_2007/cmhc-schl/nh12-229/NH12-229-2007-2E.pdf

(Subwoofa- you should give this pdf a read too if you are really serious about NB)


Jlude,
I totally agree with you too. The properties there are pretty dayumm old... so I wouldn't doubt that there will be need for repairs.

The Triplex I referred to was just an example I grabbed randomly from mls.ca, however if you look at it, there is definitely potential to make money. Is NB the best place to invest? Probably not. But is there a possibility to make a high return? I think there's definitely potential.

But yeah, I'd also vote for something like a single family home or a duplex... any bigger than that it'll probably become too much of a hassle.

[Subwoofah]

Is there something about Saint John South that would make the rent there more expensive? Safer? Better conditions?

[Jlude]

the south has some upperscale streets... but then two blocks over you've got crack dealers on every corner.

Germain street would be a good place to buy... but pricey.

[Subwoofah]

Seems like the best places to buy are the South and West... the East sounds diirrttty.

[Schwa]

Why would someone be interested in selling a house that provides so much alleged cash flow?

[Subwoofah]

bad investors?

[Jlude]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
Seems like the best places to buy are the South and West... the East sounds diirrttty.

Dude... The whole city is dirty...

you have a MASSIVE oil refinery polluting the entire city! Not to mention the pulp mill and the other industrial area polluting the water/air.

[ekguy]

if your going to invest I would suggest Moncton over Saint-John....no one lives in St John unless they work for Irving. Moncton is booming right now as much as it can for a city in NB.

[Jlude]

Originally posted by ekguy
if your going to invest I would suggest Moncton over Saint-John....no one lives in St John unless they work for Irving. Moncton is booming right now as much as it can for a city in NB.

This is very true... moncton has grown bigger than Saint John.

If you live in Saint John you either work for irving or in a call center.

[ekguy]

Originally posted by Jlude


This is very true... moncton has grown bigger than Saint John.

If you live in Saint John you either work for irving or in a call center.

when i lived in Moncton it had over 50 call centers for a population of a little over 100,000. I believe we had more call centers than Saint John but Saint John is disgusting and polluted so no one like's living there and plus Shediac which is very close to moncton has oppertunities for beach side rental properties which will easily rent for 1000 a week if it's decent. Look it up

[Subwoofah]

It is dirty and the city is less desirable than others around the area. But, I am banking on the major projects and construction in the city. I am also looking at waterfront property and I like Shediac for its location.

[Jayson]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
Is this the next big boom city? I'm thinking of going to Saint John, NB and buying some rental property there. Anyone else doing the same?

Actually i know a few families that have moved out there to invest expecting a boom in the next five years... I could see it

[Supa Dexta]

wow I missed a lot in here, but I will agree with what the locals have been saying. Not going to be a great investment.. The only thing I can see happening down east, is the number of ppl that will move back and retire there when they are done in mcmurray.. And that won't be into the cities, it will be out in the country on a lake or the coast..

I've been watching houses down around home for over a yr, and always "trick" myself into saying "WOW look at that price, on a 3000sq ft new house, with a bunch of acre's!"

But then I realize hey, it's priced that way for a reason, ain't shit going on down there.. I will however move back, I'll just continue to work out here likely, perhaps 6mths a yr or so.. :bigpimp:

There are things abuzz down there though, more and more rigs are moving down there, I just heard today nabors is sending 6 down.. I'm curious as to where they are going to end up.. And I want to work on them.. ha.. Maybe some coal bed methane or something, also heard brutal sour gas though.. not sure what they are finding.. Drilling rigs are sposed to return offshore NS this yr too (08)

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
wow I missed a lot in here, but I will agree with what the locals have been saying. Not going to be a great investment.. The only thing I can see happening down east, is the number of ppl that will move back and retire there when they are done in mcmurray.. And that won't be into the cities, it will be out in the country on a lake or the coast..

I've been watching houses down around home for over a yr, and always "trick" myself into saying "WOW look at that price, on a 3000sq ft new house, with a bunch of acre's!"

But then I realize hey, it's priced that way for a reason, ain't shit going on down there.. I will however move back, I'll just continue to work out here likely, perhaps 6mths a yr or so.. :bigpimp:

There are things abuzz down there though, more and more rigs are moving down there, I just heard today nabors is sending 6 down.. I'm curious as to where they are going to end up.. And I want to work on them.. ha.. Maybe some coal bed methane or something, also heard brutal sour gas though.. not sure what they are finding.. Drilling rigs are sposed to return offshore NS this yr too (08)

get on an offshore based out of NL, I met a guy at Schlum that did that and lived in NL and had a kick ass house

[Rockski]

newfound land and all the eastern provinces are gonna get super busy when the new refinery over there starts, we're already hearing about the wages and the L.O.A and what not and it sounds really good... its going to create a whole lot of jobs for the newfies and they're all gonna leave here and go back home

[Subwoofah]

http://www.emera.com/investors/Investor_presentations.shtml


now everyone should buy these stocks

[walperstyle]

^aka, you just purchased, and now hope others will push the price up so you can sell?

[Subwoofah]

muhuhahaha

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by Rockski
newfound land and all the eastern provinces are gonna get super busy when the new refinery over there starts, we're already hearing about the wages and the L.O.A and what not and it sounds really good... its going to create a whole lot of jobs for the newfies and they're all gonna leave here and go back home

does that mean esso (I think it was) just spent all that money to move their office to calgary, and now the east is booming and they will move it back??

haha

[Subwoofah]

Esso won't move their head office from Calgary that's for sure.

I just believe the East of Canada will become a major energy hub for the entire East Coast of North America.

[Jlude]

Irving will not let Esso move their head office to Saint John... that's for sure.

[Subwoofah]

Irving owns Saint John.

[doublepostwhore]

who wants to invest in property that is the home of the series : trailor park boys?

Do you want bubbles to be your realtor?

On a serious note. Time for some research!

[brucebanner]

Originally posted by doublepostwhore
who wants to invest in property that is the home of the series : trailor park boys?

Do you want bubbles to be your realtor?

On a serious note. Time for some research!

Wrong, guess again. The home of the series is just outside of Halifax, NS.

Get your facts straight:D

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by brendankharris


does that mean esso (I think it was) just spent all that money to move their office to calgary, and now the east is booming and they will move it back??

haha

No. Esso will stay where people actually work

[Jlude]

Originally posted by doublepostwhore
who wants to invest in property that is the home of the series : trailor park boys?

Do you want bubbles to be your realtor?

On a serious note. Time for some research!

TPB is filmed in Nova Scotia!:thumbsup:

[Jlude]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


No. Esso will stay where people actually work

You think people in the east coast don't work?

care to elaborate?

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by bruceod


Wrong, guess again. The home of the series is just outside of Halifax, NS.

Get your facts straight:D
The true home of the trailer park boys is the Woodbine Trailer park in Beaverbank NS. LOL
To the OP,you would be better off investing in some property in NS as the rental rates are pretty damn high. I moved out here and am now paying about 3-400 less than I would for an equivalent place back home. For a place like that in the right part of Halifax you could likely get 800-1000 for a three bedroom flat and likely about 650-800 for a 2 bedroom. Property is still relatively cheap .

[Bimmer88]

I hear the east is going to boom due to off shore oil exploration and discovery?

Is this true?, and if so... maybe we should invest in land and realstate there.

[johnboy27]

Originally posted by Bimmer88
I hear the east is going to boom due to off shore oil exploration and discovery?

Is this true?, and if so... maybe we should invest in land and realstate there.
I don't know about all of the east booming. Newfoundland maybe but that would spill over somewhat into NS and PEI as well as NB. There are companies drilling natural gas wells in NS and NB. They have been drilling in NB for quite a few years. the company I work for has been trying to get some contracts on the east coast for the spring. The jobs would be multimillion dollar jobs for us. Hopefully we get them so I can volunteer to go back home for a couple weeks at a time .

[Jlude]

Originally posted by johnboy27

I don't know about all of the east booming. Newfoundland maybe but that would spill over somewhat into NS and PEI as well as NB. There are companies drilling natural gas wells in NS and NB. They have been drilling in NB for quite a few years. the company I work for has been trying to get some contracts on the east coast for the spring. The jobs would be multimillion dollar jobs for us. Hopefully we get them so I can volunteer to go back home for a couple weeks at a time .

I've heard that there are Oil Rigs now in Sussex, N.B. and I do know my hometown is building another oil refinery (the first one was for a short time the largest in North America) next to the current one. I was living there when the first was built and it gave the city a little boom, I would expect this boom to be bigger.

Still, we have to be realistic... it's not gonna be boomin' like good ol' Alberta!

[Supa Dexta]

theres currently 3 rigs in NB, 2 running 1 sitting..

1 sitting in NS,

1 running in NF and 2 sitting..

1 in que

1 in ont
= 9 total

Alberta 221 up, 450 down.. = 671