Mac user with PC purchase questions

[ZorroAMG]

Ok, so it's been a long time since I used, let alone BOUGHT a PC but my dad needs a new laptop. His office computer crapped out and now he wants to get ONE good laptop to take occasional to the house but always on business trips etc.

Are there brands to stay AWAY from? Money is no issue but smart purchasing is the theme. Dell? Toshiba? HP? Sony seems overpriced for what you get but it's cause I know what you get in a Mac for sony money. What about warranties, programs pre-installed etc. He obviously needs Office and probably will NOT want the PISSta OS - XP?

Recommendations? Stores to buy from, stores to run from? Thoughts? Also, no he doesn't want a Mac cause his office network is PC....I tried, trust me haha!

He needs the computer ASAP so the sooner you all can help, the better :)

Thanks in advance!

[roopi]

I've only had Sony notebooks and I've never had an issue with any of them. They are more expensive for what you get but worth the reliability (that I've had with them).

I'd stay away from HP. I know someone who had 3 of them in the past year (on product replacement plan) because they kept failing.

[brabus190e]

Toshiba is usually a safe bet...I've never had any problems with mine

[sputnik]

I would get a Lenovo Thinkpad if it is for business.

Everything else is consumer grade crap.

[ZorroAMG]

Sputnik:

Pops is still rather old school, not UBER tech savy so would the Lenovo be better than a dell if he needs it for internet, email, business card sync, outlook, photos, basic Office docs etc?

Particular Lenovo model?

[The Cosworth]

memory express can build some pretty bad ass notebooks for a good price,

otherwise I was actually quite impressed with my dad's new dell he got. His first dell desktop was a POS so I hated them ever since, but his new one was something like 1600 and pretty decent for the money.



Sell him on a MBP with XP dual boot ;) :D

[picmerollin]

i have had a compaq presario v2000 since 2004 and i have never had a problem.

my brother has an acer and it has been sent away 3+ times for repair in 1 year.

so given my experience compaq might do the trick for your dad, i got mine @ future shop for like $1600 almost 4 yrs ago.

i think im gonna get a macbook pro now, but at the time some of the programs i needed for school were easier to get on a PC, but schools done!!! forever.

[badatusrnames]

Get a mac with parallels or bootcamp. Of course you'll have to find copies of XP & office with activation codes. My dad has an iMac that he runs XP on with bootcamp for his business...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=87lZa8EiEqc

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Also, no he doesn't want a Mac cause his office network is PC....I tried, trust me haha!





Guys...come on. LOL


I had a V2000 for work a couple of years ago and while it was good I didn't have much to compare it to.

Thoughts on Dell VS Lenovo?

[badatusrnames]

I read that, but would he have problems using a mac running XP on his network? Are there some hardware issues? The laptop would be running windows natively if he was using bootcamp, wouldn't it be, for all intents and purposes, a PC? I'm no expert though...

I would recommend a MacBook Pro just based on the quality of the fit, finish and design, my dad bought his iMac for those reasons and maybe has used OSX perhaps twice in the last year, and XP daily.

Although of course, a big drawback is he would be paying extra for windows + any other software that is normally bundled with a windows notebook.

[sputnik]

Zorro

If his demands are simple. A Dell Vostro 1500 will be just fine and he wont look like he is using a laptop marketed for kids (it has a simple black design... very low key). I have one and I use it on a daily basis as my "company laptop". I bought it because I was too cheap for a Lenovo and was rather impressed.

Just get an upgraded screen and a pile of RAM.

Should be come in under $1500.

Buying Lenovo (formerly IBM) is a good idea too. However I haven't been following the models lately since switching jobs.

[ZorroAMG]

Thanks dude....will look into them....

[ga16i]

If it's for business use, perhaps stick to the business line of laptops and get the docking station as well. The home ones tend not to have these. Just plop into station at work and you're ready to go, no more crawling around for plugs and stuff.

[eb0i]

I would go with Sputnik on the Lenovo thinkpad suggestion. They are durable...not the prettiest out there but quite durable. I suggest having a look at the x61. It's small and would be perfect for a traveling business man :thumbsup:

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/x-series

[googe]

dell and ibm/lenovo are both good choices. I wouldn't prefer one brand to another really, at that point just look at price, features, form factor, etc. No one is going to be able to say conclusively that one is better across the board.

[ZorroAMG]

Going with a Dell Inspiron 1520:

Components
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (4MB cache/2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB), English
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition, English
Jet Black Color with Matte Finish
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch display (1680 x 1050)
Integrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam
3GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (1GB x 2GB)
250G 5400RPM SATA HDD
128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Essentials
Microsoft® Office Small Business 2007- Home+Student and Outlook, more, English
Dell Wireless 1390 802.11g Mini-Card
Please contact me with more details
PC-Cillin Internet Security 30-day trial, English
DataSafe Online Backup 3GB (included with price)
Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)
1 Year Return to Depot Service and Technical Support
56 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
High Definition Audio 2.0
Accessories
Also Includes
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.08


$1,729.00

Thoughts?

[googe]

Those are pretty good bang for buck for your average user. I would upgrade the wireless card to a draft-N wireless, like the new macbooks have. You should be able to choose one that supports both 802.11g and 802.11n.

Not sure if dell allows it on those but Id also upgrade the 5400rpm to a 7200rpm. Though it will run a bit hotter and draw more power.

If high security is a priority, Id suggest going with an ibm or lenovo though and use the fingerprint scanner or bios/hard drive password. Theyre the only laptop drives on the market that Im aware of that you cant read the data without having the password, even if you put it in another computer. If thats not a concern though, the dell is a good choice.

[Khyron]

Toshiba is good because the warranty repairs can be done in town. Dell has next day service techs that repair on site.

I strongly recommend staying with Windows XP - vista is not there yet.

Get a 7200 rpm drive! - the speed difference is night and day IMO.

9 cell bat lasts longer but sticks out a bit from the laptop in the front (at least on the 630).

1G of ram is plenty for standard office comp but 2 is fine as well.

We got latitude 630s cause of weight and size - you can always buy a nice 21 inch lcd for dual monitor/office setup. 830 is nicer for the bigger screen. Latitudes include 3 year next day service/parts. Big deal when your life is your laptop.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Khyron
Toshiba is good because the warranty repairs can be done in town. Dell has next day service techs that repair on site.

I strongly recommend staying with Windows XP - vista is not there yet.

Get a 7200 rpm drive! - the speed difference is night and day IMO.

9 cell bat lasts longer but sticks out a bit from the laptop in the front (at least on the 630).

1G of ram is plenty for standard office comp but 2 is fine as well.

We got latitude 630s cause of weight and size - you can always buy a nice 21 inch lcd for dual monitor/office setup. 830 is nicer for the bigger screen. Latitudes include 3 year next day service/parts. Big deal when your life is your laptop.

I would agree staying with Xp but remember turbo memory doesnt like XP neither does AHCI which is where you get a LARGE performance boost.....that however is offset with how bad vista hogs resources.

The battery sticks out and sticks out alot, not worth it IMO.

Note on the 7200 drive over the 5400, dont waste your money the difference on the laptop is .08ms read time, is .08ms worth 300 more dollars to you, you cant even blink in that time. (numbers taken from www.notebookreview.com)

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Kavy

Note on the 7200 drive over the 5400, dont waste your money the difference on the laptop is .08ms read time, is .08ms worth 300 more dollars to you, you cant even blink in that time. (numbers taken from www.notebookreview.com)

Lay down the crack pipe. Upgrading is 40-100 bucks if you stick between 100 and 200 gigs (should have an external for backup anyway).

There is huge diff between 5400, 7200 and 10,000 rpm drives. You might be looking at SEEK time which is close, but actually pulling the data off or putting it back is in the ballpark of 25-30% faster. I don't know about you, but mp3s, mpgs, os page files are all pretty big and loading them 30% quicker makes sense.

Between 7200 (65meg/second write) and 10,000 (85megs/sec) and reading should be even faster.

For me it's one of the most noticable upgrades you can do, definately worth getting less proc to pay for it if needed. A bit higher power consumption is true though.

[Kavy]

Originally posted by Khyron


Lay down the crack pipe. Upgrading is 40-100 bucks if you stick between 100 and 200 gigs (should have an external for backup anyway).

There is huge diff between 5400, 7200 and 10,000 rpm drives. You might be looking at SEEK time which is close, but actually pulling the data off or putting it back is in the ballpark of 25-30% faster. I don't know about you, but mp3s, mpgs, os page files are all pretty big and loading them 30% quicker makes sense.

Between 7200 (65meg/second write) and 10,000 (85megs/sec) and reading should be even faster.

For me it's one of the most noticable upgrades you can do, definately worth getting less proc to pay for it if needed. A bit higher power consumption is true though.

Read the whole thread before you start making comments like "lay down the crack pipe". The HDD option he requested is a 150 option, 300 if he wanted to upgrade the 2 HDD's that the configuration CAN come with :) i was giving him the options not the cheapest option.
I was referring to a 5400 DRIVE WITH TURBO MEMORY VERSUS A 7200 DRIVE WITHOUT (as the turbo memory option doesn't come on a 7200 drive i know because my company bought 12 brand new 1720's 6 of which with 7200's)

Seriously man learn to read before you start making cuts and name calling that behavior is uncalled for. State your OPINION but don't trash on others for soing the same.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Kavy
[B]

Read the whole thread before you start making comments like "lay down the crack pipe". The HDD option he requested is a 150 option, 300 if he wanted to upgrade the 2 HDD's that the configuration CAN come with :) i was giving him the options not the cheapest option.
I was referring to a 5400 DRIVE WITH TURBO MEMORY VERSUS A 7200 DRIVE WITHOUT (as the turbo memory option doesn't come on a 7200 drive i know because my company bought 12 brand new 1720's 6 of which with 7200's)


I read exactly what you wrote originally and it's wrong. It's not an opinion.

You said:


Note on the 7200 drive over the 5400, dont waste your money the difference on the laptop is .08ms read time, is .08ms worth 300 more dollars to you, you cant even blink in that time. (numbers taken from www.notebookreview.com)

Quoting seek times? Why? You said that upgrading from 5400 to 7200 was a waste of money with no benefit, also quoting an absurd price (7200s are on average about 25% more expensive)

Then you backpedal elaborating about some option combination quirks with the dells your company bought... and I was supposed to just somehow know that's what you were thinking?

http://www.realworldtech.com/includes/images/articles/ATA-5400-vs-7200-fig2.gif

5400 - 25mb/sec dropping down to 15ish.

http://www.realworldtech.com/includes/images/articles/ATA-5400-vs-7300-fig3.gif

7200 - 34mb/sec, sustained.

Now you elaborate about comparing turbo memory (flash memory cache) vs the 7200 - well again, maybe with the particular dell model that's the case but the speed of the drive has nothing to do with whether you can get the flash memory or not. Ideally you'd get both.

http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/turbomemory/index.htm

I didn't call you a retard or an idiot - I said you'd have to be on crack to not want 7200 speed over 5400 all else being equal. Which I still say.

Stay tuned for more "When nerds clash" after the break.

[Kavy]

I like how you feel you visit one website and that the hard drives they tested applies to all hard drives on earth, so in YOUR logic each company builds things to the exact same specs as one another with the same performance.
So then a 2.2L engine from BMW makes the same power as a Kia 2.2L engine according to your logic.

I was quoting about the particular dell model (Inspiron 1520) according to tests run, on that particular model (Inspiron 1520). I wasn't quoting tests on a Desktop hard drive either like you did, why you ask? because this thread is about laptops not about desktops.

I would go around the internet and post pictures to back up what im saying like you did but its clear you know how to use google, and im sure if you would have googled more then 7200 vs 5400 you would have found a more accurate representation. Laptop hard drives get hot, as they do performance decreases. I find it hard to believe that how every test I have read (ABOUT LAPTOP HDD'S) shows a large decrease in performance as the drive gets hot and how 7200's run WAYYYY hotter then a 5400 that performance decreases more on a 5400 then on a 7200.

Yes on a desktop HDD i completely agree with you that the performance difference is much larger. Why? I will explain it for you.

Its all about disk size (surface area not capacity), do me a favor and google what the SIZE of a Desktop's HDD disk is then do the same for a Laptop's HDD. You will realize that OMG they are not the same (in most cases as you can buy smaller Desktop HDD's). A disc that has a larger surface area will greatly benefit from a faster rotation speed then a disk of a much smaller surface area, regardless of if its measured in rpm's because it takes less rpm's to get to the same block sector on a smaller drive (disc size not capacity) then it would on a larger drive (disc size not capacity) thats just simple math.

And I didn't backpedal I just thought I would not have to explain every single aspect to you which i was mistaken, and for that I apologize.

[Destinova403]

to the OP. i used to sell computers (at BB) and by far the most we saw come back broken were HPs. every single brand had their own faults.

i would recomend probably a sony, they cost more but they use a higher grade product in their stuff. Warranty is the same in every brand except Toshiba... Toshiba gives international coverage with their computers and none of the other brands do.

dont buy any extended warranties or service plans especially from BB/FS... having worked there i know they are a rip-off and we basically never do anything for you and they dont cover soft-ware problems which are easily 90 percent of peoples problems.

Vista isnt that bad honestly, as far as the use of the computer, basicly home-office stuff you should be ok with it, try and use the new office (2007) with it and you shouldnt have any problems. i know there are a lot of people saying its crap, but bear with it... its in the same stage that XP was when it came out... XP is almost 6 years old now and drastically out-dated especially considering the shift to Vista has been happening right now.

for Anti Virus... run somthing light... i wouldnt recomend anything by Norton, Mcaffie is pretty good, and dont run any other programs such as Spysweeper or Adaware its completely not needed with the built in Windows Defender and you would just be wasting your money and computer resources.

hopefully that helped a little bit... most of the brands are the same, IBM or Lenovo as they are now known are very good for buisness machines and thats what my dad uses and he has never had any problems. I use a Mac but i also have a Sony and it serves me quite well so i would recomend one of those two brands.

if you have any questions PM me and ill try my best to answer them.

[Redlyne_mr2]

HP is garbage, Compaq is trash, Dell is good until it breaks and youre dealing with some dude in India who you cant understand. Toshiba are the most apple like PC's in terms of hardware and they have great warranties.

[narou]

Originally posted by brendankharris
memory express can build some pretty bad ass notebooks for a good price,

otherwise I was actually quite impressed with my dad's new dell he got. His first dell desktop was a POS so I hated them ever since, but his new one was something like 1600 and pretty decent for the money.



Sell him on a MBP with XP dual boot ;) :D

Haha I was gonna say he should try building one... :P

[Khyron]

Originally posted by Kavy
I like how you feel you visit one website and that the hard drives they tested applies to all hard drives on earth, so in YOUR logic each company builds things to the exact same specs as one another with the same performance.
So then a 2.2L engine from BMW makes the same power as a Kia 2.2L engine according to your logic.

I quoted the first one I found because they will all show the same thing. If you think a faster rotational speed will somehow make the drive slower, nothing I can say will change that. If you were correct, who would EVER buy a 7200/10K rpm?

As for your poor car analogy (different brands wtf) my logic is saying that a wheel spinning at 7200 rpm will cover more ground in a given time than the same wheel spinning 5400. How can you even try to dispute this? It's physics. Whether the wheel is 20 inches, or 3.5 inches, as long as both are the same size, the faster spinning one covers more ground. Of course if you're comparing a slow spinning 20 inch wheel to a 2.5 inch fast wheel it's different, but we're talking apples to apples - same size vs same size. Your whole desktop vs laptop comment is worthless. If I say a 1.5 GHz processor is faster than the same processor at 1GHz it doesn't matter whether I'm talking about a desktop/laptop/mac/widget as long as both are the same.

The only CONS to using faster and faster drives are increased heat, noise and power consumption, and less longevity - all of which were mentioned and I agree with. However nowadays most 7200s have such minimal heat and power differences that it just comes down to money.


I was quoting about the particular dell model (Inspiron 1520) according to tests run, on that particular model (Inspiron 1520). I wasn't quoting tests on a Desktop hard drive either like you did, why you ask? because this thread is about laptops not about desktops.

Actually you were half quoting that, then you starting ranting about how your work laptops get turbo ram with 5400 but not 7200 (which is complete bullshit), then you quoted the price increase for DUAL harddrives in your work laptop (??), and now your saying that all the harddrive makers and laptop makers are idiots for selling SLOWER (7200) notebook drives for MORE money, and you're the only guy that "gets it". Dell is conning the world by charging upgrade fees for (to you) slower drives? Riiiight.

I also read your attempted explanation about disk size, blah blah - it's WRONG. Compare notebook to notebook or desktop to desktop - if everything else is equal the FASTER ROTATING DRIVE WILL BE FASTER.

I'll draw you a simple example. Assume you have a 10 meg unfragmented block of data to read, and that data is in a big long solid string coiled on the disk. Each rotation holds an averge of .5 megs (yes as it gets smaller, less towards the middle, more towards outer edge, but assume an avg). It's going to take 20 rotations to read that data once you're head is in position. Remember, drives are identical so it doesn't matter how many platters, how much data the head can read - THE SAME. A drive spinning 1 rotation a second will take 20 seconds to read that file. A drive spinning 2 rotations a second will take 10 seconds. And so on.

Find me anything that disputes this. Hell, find me perpetual motion while you're looking.

I'll even quote your own site, with their definitive "7200 vs 5400 notebook thread"

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=59053

Max, min, avg speeds:
My 5400 reads 33, 22 and 28 MB/s. I wonder how faster is 7200.
My 7200rpm Hitachi is 49, 23, 37.5 MB/s.

You can debate whether it's worth the added tradeoffs, but NOONE will say it's slower/equal. Hell, even the heat comment is debated as some manufacturers have 7200s that run cooler than 5400s - especially seagates.

Keep going with this and I'm sure the fail/owned pics are going to start popping up.

[Kavy]

You win, your dad can beat up my dad.

Side note don't put words into my mouth and try to misquote me its a sad attempt and gathering people on your side, believe it or not but people on here are not sheep.
While you were searching im sure you also saw all the threads and tests of the 5400 drives that had mopped the floors with 7200's. Build quality has a tonne to do with performance no one argues that, Why can you not see that a well made drive can perform better then a poorly made one?

Your wheel example was not even close, no moving parts in a wheel, no lasers to read data, no buffers etc. RPM does not mean everything in a HDD.

Why dont you read up on the drives that come in the 1520. Which is what I was referring to in the beginning but you turned on your blinders. I never said they were faster I said the difference versus the money was not worth it....IMO which means IN MY OWN OPINION. I can have my OPINION as can you and everyone else.

Try to have an adult conversation, name calling and attempted to assault my character only shows your immaturity, i expected more from a 4 year member.

Please misquote me further as you have done a great job so far.

[Khyron]

You are aware that I'm using the forum quote function and just taking exactly what you post previously?

This isn't about being a bully and beating you up over an opinion. If you said "Hey I don't find the speed really worth the money", that's fine.

But you said, in response to MY comment about the 7200 being awesome:



Note on the 7200 drive over the 5400, dont waste your money the difference on the laptop is .08ms read time, is .08ms worth 300 more dollars to you, you cant even blink in that time. (numbers taken from www.notebookreview.com)

followed by:


I was referring to a 5400 DRIVE WITH TURBO MEMORY VERSUS A 7200 DRIVE WITHOUT (as the turbo memory option doesn't come on a 7200 drive i know because my company bought 12 brand new 1720's 6 of which with 7200's)

But we've already addressed that gem.

Anyway I did look at the Dell.ca page for the Inspiron 1520, and it doesn't specify the brand of HD because Dell is constantly switching suppliers for their low end models. Upgrading for the same size drive was 75 bucks. Could be a better brand, might be worse - you won't know. You want consistant brands, you should look at a Latitude.

Though I will still bet that the "worst" brand Dell sells still has to pass enough performance/warranty tests that they aren't selling crap generic no name drives either.

Hell, you might be right that somewhere out there is a really shitty made 7200 that is slower than a super expensive well made 5400. But that's not really the point is it?

Summary - if you can afford the cost, get the 7200. :D

[sputnik]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Going with a Dell Inspiron 1520:

Components
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (4MB cache/2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB), English
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition, English
Jet Black Color with Matte Finish
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch display (1680 x 1050)
Integrated 2.0M Pixel Webcam
3GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (1GB x 2GB)
250G 5400RPM SATA HDD
128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Essentials
Microsoft® Office Small Business 2007- Home+Student and Outlook, more, English
Dell Wireless 1390 802.11g Mini-Card
Please contact me with more details
PC-Cillin Internet Security 30-day trial, English
DataSafe Online Backup 3GB (included with price)
Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)
1 Year Return to Depot Service and Technical Support
56 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
High Definition Audio 2.0
Accessories
Also Includes
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.08


$1,729.00

Thoughts?

Have you tried pricing out the same thing in the Vostro 1500 line (is in the small business section)?

[A790]

Well this thread turned into a debate about whether 5,400 rpm drives are better than 7,200 rpm drives?

I dunno, would you rather drive a Kia or a Porsche?

[Lagerstatten.ca]

At my office I've only purchased Dell Latitude D620/D30 (14.1" Wide LCD) and the larger D820/D830 (15.4" Wide LCD) and they're awesome in my opinion.

The build quality is very good and the sound that the lid makes when you close it is just very secure sounding. It's a very solid machine and not bulky at all.

We have ordered one of the new Dell XPS m1330 laptops (13.3" Wide LCD). It was a bit pricy after all the options ($2500) but I think its worth it just for the ultrabright glossy LCD screen. I can't stand those dark standard LCD's.

I'm a Mac user at heart, but at work we only use Dell's and they've been great to handle and use on a daily basis.

[soupey]

Dell is great for warranty workk if your worried about something goiing wrong, but for build quality i'd go with toshiba or IBM, sony is there but way too overpriced for what it is.

[Splooge]

toshiba ftw

[ZorroAMG]

thanks, thread whores.

Sputty, I ordered him the one i quoted to you

[dragonone]

i've read many forums and laptop user reviews and on more than one occasion ppl felt their 7200rpm 2.5" upgrade is much zippier. This does not take into account system uptime, temperature, cache ... etc. Users in general just feel that the OS responds faster. I'd take a 7200rpm over a 5400rpm one anyday, but only if it has a good battery. it'll require more power to spin faster and to maintain the same temp.

and costco's $133.xx deal on the Mybook 2.5" 250gb is the best 2.5" deal if you can find a BEV (8mb cache) version. I wouldn't be surprised if the dell's ship with hd that only has 2mb cache tho. so I say go for a lower capacity hd, and upgrade it yourself for a lot less money