whats is more reliable to turbo b20 or b18 b ?

[honda/teg]

so like the tittle states i am looking for input from u guys on what i should put in my da b20 or b18 b turbo , so my main questions are what will make more hp and what will last longer on stock internals

i will be running rc 550 cc injectors, 3' full exaust, revhard log style manifold, skunk 2 intake manifold, 63, a/r , 70 trim garret turbo i belive , and i will be tuning with hondata s200b

EDIT got a new ramhorn style manifold

please feel free to give me any input that u feel i will need

[KRyn]

Another one of these threads.. Did you even try using the search button before you created this thread?

[honda/teg]

yeah i did it doesnt quite answer my questions , so dont post anything unless its helpfull please ,

[sr20s14zenki]

Im pretty sure honda manufactures most of their pistons/rods the same as far as strength is concerned, altho compression ratios are going to change of course. They are cast AFAIK. B20 would yield more horsepower, and more torque beacuse of the simple fact it is bigger. Reliability pretty much comes down to how good the tune is, weather its tuned well out of the range of detonation or not.

[Darkane]

B18B would be my guess. Although if you're running moderate boost B20 will hold just fine. Legendboy had a 400whp+ B20vtec on stock sleeves holding up just fine.

Boost a D15 is my vote :D

[sr20s14zenki]

I checked wikipedia, b18b has a higher compression ratio than b20, so b18 would make more power, but be less boost friendly IMO, b20 has lower compression, so more friendly to higher levels of boost, and more tunable without catastrophic errors

[Mr_ET]

it has been proven many times that a b18 can make over 300whp at our elevation reliably as long as it has good quality parts and a good tune.

I have heard many stories of b20's having much weaker sleeves and not lasting as long for the same power level. Personnaly I have never seen a b20 crack a sleeve here in Calgary.

Since I have seen some really nice b18 setups at Racecity and know some folks that built those setups I would say it's a great foundation to build on. I have seen one run 11.66 at 120 stock block and head and by the end of the night the only broken part was the clutch :P

[EK 2.0]

In THEORY the B18 will take more abuse...more bore to handle stress....

But as was mentioned...it's all in the TUNE.

[honda/teg]

yeah i am more on the side of the b18 because i did turbo a b18 before but my problem is now i cant find one so the only other option is b20 , thanks for the input keep it coming guys o yeah and also i am planing on running the most 12 psi

[Mr_ET]

on what turbo? psi means nothing by itself a t25 with 12 psi on a b18 will suck lol but a gt42 at 12 psi on the b18 will blow sh*t up :P

[honda/teg]

t3/t04 63 a.r /70 trim

[sr20s14zenki]

^^^good choice...i think the b20 will work just fine with that turbo. We are running a t3/t4 on my friend's sr20, makes 260 hp at 12 psi, were running it at 18 psi now....+50 shot of nitrous

[Mr_ET]

Originally posted by honda/teg
t3/t04 63 a.r /70 trim

that should work nicely on either motor why not a gt28rs? :)

[gpomp]

neither. get a b16

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by gpomp
neither. get a b16

sure, if you think torque is the enemy

:D

as Carrol Shelby said, "Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races"

[gpomp]

by "get a b16" i meant to turbo a b16. a turbo b16 should make more hp and torque than a turbo b18b/b20b, but what do i know.

[sr20s14zenki]

^^^ you are right, but with all due respect, wouldnt it reduce the spool time significantly?Nobody wants to wait for 5000 rpm for a turbo to fully spool (im probably exaggerating)

[honda/teg]

b16 gen one was my other chance because i love how the vtech valve cover looks lol, but has anyone on here boosted a b16 and what was the end result hp/torque? and also how reliable is this motor and how much psi can it handle because it does have higher compression then the b20 or b18 , 10-1 comp

[gpomp]

i bet it will make more power than any non-vtec motor.

[honda/teg]

ya but will it make enough torque and will it be reliable , and it cant take much boost right?

[962 kid]

Originally posted by gpomp
i bet it will make more power than any non-vtec motor.


Why do you bet that? Non vtec motors respond better to FI than vtec motors and on top of that, the b16 is lower displacement

[gpomp]

i flipped a coin. heads was vtec and tails was non-vtec.

vtec won.

[sr20s14zenki]

Unfortunately AFAIC, there is no replacement for displacement....the bigger motor will always win in the long run.

[dezinr]

Have you thought about going with a supercharger kit instead of turbo?

[962 kid]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
Unfortunately AFAIC, there is no replacement for displacement....the bigger motor will always win in the long run.

Not always true, especially when you're only talking about a few hundred cc. It would be nice if gpomp could back his claim, but I guess he can't stop being a douche for even a couple seconds. Oh well

[gpomp]

Originally posted by 962 kid


Not always true, especially when you're only talking about a few hundred cc. It would be nice if gpomp could back his claim, but I guess he can't stop being a douche for even a couple seconds. Oh well sure, right after you stop scamming beyond members on car repairs.

[frozenrice]

Not 100% sure how this happened, but from what I recall of the original story that came with the picture, it was a B20.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/frozenrice/broken-5.jpg


Another B20:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/frozenrice/cracked20sleeve203.jpg

[962 kid]

Originally posted by gpomp
sure, right after you stop scamming beyond members on car repairs.

What??

[IntegraG2]

again its not how much boost a motor can handle, its how much power it can handle. I love my turbo b20 it has torque when its not in boost so granny driving is still a blast. Whatever you pick you will be happy just get it tuned properly. Just get whatever is readily available.

PS - The setup you talk about in the original post is almost identical to my current set up turbo, mani, everything except im running the hondata s300

[freakin]

Originally posted by Mr_ET
it has been proven many times that a b18 can make over 300whp at our elevation reliably as long as it has good quality parts and a good tune.

I have heard many stories of b20's having much weaker sleeves and not lasting as long for the same power level. Personnaly I have never seen a b20 crack a sleeve here in Calgary.

Really? Here's mine....NA B20/VTEC, 11.5:1 CR....had a really shitty tune from a local 'tuner' shop. Cost me about 8 grand as a result of it.

http://members.shaw.ca/matteakin/acura/B20/teardown/cyl4crack.JPG

For what you get out of a B20 compared to a B18A/B, I'd just stick with a B18. Basically what it comes down to is thinner sleeves. The B18 has a 81mm bore and the B20 has a 84mm bore inside of basically the same size sleeve, giving you a thinner wall. I'm going to be running another B20/VTEC in my next setup, but that's just because I got the motor for cheap. I'm figuring if I blow it, then I'll just swap in a B18 block and do some internal work.

[freakin]

PS, that second shot that Frozenrice put up is also my cracked block. I know of others in town that have gone the same way.

As it was already mentioned though, a good tune goes a long way. But side by side, I'd go with the LS block. The rods and crank are identical, but the thicker sleeve will help.

Are you planning on doing any internal work, or just slapping on a turbo and dropping it in?

[honda/teg]

Originally posted by dezinr
Have you thought about going with a supercharger kit instead of turbo?

i have done a sc GSR before and didnt like it as much

[honda/teg]

Originally posted by freakin
PS, that second shot that Frozenrice put up is also my cracked block. I know of others in town that have gone the same way.

As it was already mentioned though, a good tune goes a long way. But side by side, I'd go with the LS block. The rods and crank are identical, but the thicker sleeve will help.

Are you planning on doing any internal work, or just slapping on a turbo and dropping it in?


looks like u know ur stuff , anyways i have a b18 a1 curently nothing wrong with it runs perfect no smoke but when i did the compression it read 160-165 psi so i thought it is low, but what i might do is just rebuild that ls block and put some new bearings and rings on the bootom end, what u guys think of that ?

[frozenrice]

If you do that and are planning on boosting anyways, you might want to consider, upgrading (or shot peening) the rods and getting forged pistons, head studs, and what not. Something to consider since you're in there anyways. That way you're more prepared for larger boost levels if you decide to go more.

[dj_honda]

i run 18psi on my stock block b20 :poosie: i trap 112mph. good tune? i tuned it myself....never tuned a car before haha.

stock vs stock, i would go b16 as well. it will make more power. why? the power comes from the better flowing head. also, vtec motors are built to handle more abuse than non-vtec motors so the internals will take more abuse. i believe the current record for a stock block b16 is 600+whp compared to 400ish for an LS.

[euro_racer]

it is no secret that a vtec motor will make more power than a non-vtec any day...overall better design and better flow Pwns non-vtec

[frozenrice]

^^agreed. Why would Honda have bothered with Vtec if it didn't work?
In the end boost has way more power potential than an all-motor vtec. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have don't think I've ever heard of a vtec making more that 250hp. I have heard of 500hp on boost though.

boost > vtec > non vtec

Aws4MGuoFCw

[sr20s14zenki]

I agree with the fact that a vtec engine could make more power in the long run, better flowing head, etc..... i saw a b16a in HCI make 400 horsepower before they cracked a ring land.

And frozenrice...I LOVE your signature....makes sense 110%

[frozenrice]

Thanks for the reminder to edit it. A lot of people don't know what it's referring to.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by frozenrice
^^agreed. Why would Honda have bothered with Vtec if it didn't work? i think he meant vtec + turbo will make more power than non-vtec + turbo.

[frozenrice]

LOL. Thanks for clarifying. I didn't read it that way originally. Makes much more sense now.

Turbo vtec> turbo non-vtec > vtec > non vtec.

[euro_racer]

percicely :D

[Aleks]

How much power are you looking for?

[Mr_ET]

^ now THAT is the right question

[honda/teg]

250-270 whp

[jdmloc]

NA FTW

whats with always boosting lol
build a strong na build
like throw a b16 head on your ls block
high comp pistons
stage 2 cams
valvetrain upgrade
bigger intake manifold
and individual throttle bodies
and a really good tune
and your engine will be screaming

^ you could have that kinda power with this na build
and you will have the nice b16 valve cover on it
or a type r head if you want haa

[dj_honda]

Originally posted by jdmloc
NA FTW

whats with always boosting lol
build a strong na build
like throw a b16 head on your ls block
high comp pistons
stage 2 cams
valvetrain upgrade
bigger intake manifold
and individual throttle bodies
and a really good tune
and your engine will be screaming

^ you could have that kinda power with this na build
and you will have the nice b16 valve cover on it
or a type r head if you want haa

ok thanks.

[sr20s14zenki]

^^^^good idea, but again, some of us like to have the power come on before 6000 rpm :D

[jdmloc]

ok then just bore out the b18 block to 2 litres
then you will have power throughout your rpms

[gpomp]

Originally posted by jdmloc
ok then just bore out the b18 block to 2 litres
then you will have power throughout your rpms oh yeah, the 10 extra horsepower will sure make a difference!

[sr20s14zenki]

Turbo is less expensive and more potent. You get MORE torque, and more horsepower throughout the rev range, starting pretty much depending on how big your turbo is. I bet a gt2871r on a b18b would make it haul mega ass, and come on full boost at around 3400 rpm and then carry all the way to over 6k.

I have nothing against NA, theres nothing like an engine screaming at 9000rpm, but on the street, i feel that low end power starting early in the revs is better, and more practical....and stealthy (=

[euro_racer]

Originally posted by dj_honda


ok thanks.

:rofl: :rofl: :banghead:

[jdmloc]

Originally posted by gpomp
oh yeah, the 10 extra horsepower will sure make a difference!

k buddy what do you mean ten horsepower
boring it out to 2 litres
means alot more low end power/torque
and more horsepower
and even if it was 10 horsepower thats alot
if you dont think it is
then you know nothign about building cars

[SNAATCH]

I Have had turbo B16 and turbo B20. The B16 was quicker in the top end but I loved having the torque at low rpm's with the B20. If I were to turbo again it would be B20 for sure. It would be difficult to find someone to tune a turbo Vtec motor properly as well. Its hard enough to find someone to do any sort of tuning.

[SNAATCH]

Originally posted by jdmloc
ok then just bore out the b18 block to 2 litres
then you will have power throughout your rpms
And wouldn't this be a B20?:dunno:

[honda/teg]

Originally posted by SNAATCH

And wouldn't this be a B20?:dunno:


technically yes it would be a b20

[riceeater]

Originally posted by jdmloc


k buddy what do you mean ten horsepower
boring it out to 2 litres
means alot more low end power/torque
and more horsepower
and even if it was 10 horsepower thats alot
if you dont think it is
then you know nothign about building cars

10 hp a lot :dunno: are you racing gokarts :dunno: i thought you cant even feel differences in power under 5hp, so 10 hp is a lot :dunno: that`s like what, adding a CAI and a larger diameter catback exhaust :dunno: powwwwwwaaaahhhh

[Mr_ET]

Originally posted by jdmloc
NA FTW

whats with always boosting lol
build a strong na build
like throw a b16 head on your ls block
high comp pistons
stage 2 cams
valvetrain upgrade
bigger intake manifold
and individual throttle bodies
and a really good tune
and your engine will be screaming

^ you could have that kinda power with this na build
and you will have the nice b16 valve cover on it
or a type r head if you want haa

so my guess is you've never done an n/a build at this altitude and/or you have never raced at Racecity right?

unless it's a fully built K series engine you will NEVER see 250-275 whp n/a out of the setup you just talked about. I say if your lucky the above setup will get you about 180-185 whp.

for the amount of power the OP wants it's either spend 10k on an n/a setup that will not reach his goals and not be streetable or spend 5k on a motor and a turbo kit and get that amount all day long reliably.

btw boring out a b18 to 2L is basically creating a b20 and will cost you much more than a b20. It will also have the same weak sleeves.

Please stay out of this thread as no info you have given has been of any value kthxbye!

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by jdmloc


k buddy what do you mean ten horsepower
boring it out to 2 litres
means alot more low end power/torque
and more horsepower
and even if it was 10 horsepower thats alot
if you dont think it is
then you know nothign about building cars This guy is so JDM, even his posts are in haiku. :rofl:

What's funny is that he got called on the larger intake manifold + ITBs by dj_honda, yet he doesn't know it. :rofl: :rofl:

[honda/teg]

i have already purchased my turbo kit and there is no way i will ever do a na build its not what i want so please stop posting things that are usless to me , all i want to know is which motor i should go with

[euro_racer]

ls/vtec :D (b16 head/ls block)

those heads are a dime a dosen and can be found for cheap, have best flow, and you already have a good block on your integra so you are good to go :thumbsup:

othar than that, just stick with the b18 ls and you dont realy need anything more than that for your goals

[Mr_ET]

Yeah for your power goal I would just go b18b1 and call it a day.

That way your stock internals can handle the power with a good tune no problem and if you want to go ls/vtec down the road you already have the block and only need the head.

[Primer_Drift]

http://www.roflcats.com/images/0219.jpg

I'm now selling my oversize B-series ITB manifold if anyone wants to buy it... it only fits the H22.

[Mr_ET]

giving up on the twin engine del sol Scott?

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by Mr_ET
giving up on the twin engine del sol Scott?

yeah I've decided to spend my time trolling beyond, posting random funny cat pictures.

[Mr_ET]

that sounds like a plan:thumbsup: