Working out without protein

[riced]

I wanted to get some personal opinions on this, most of what I found on the net were people who swear by protein and insist on taking it if you work out.

I'm about 5'5-5'6 and 145lbs. I don't consider myself super scrawny like the "typical" (don't mean to offend) asian, but I'm not super huge either. I work out 3-4 times a week for an hour each session.
I feel like I'm packing the fat, especially in the gut, but I'm not getting toned like I want.

At first, I was 125lbs and since then have gained the weight to what I am now and I'd like to tone the muscle. Is working out WITHOUT protein an effective way to do so? I know it builds muscle, but perhaps it's preventing me from becoming toned?
Should I just drink protein and not be so worried about it?

[adidas]

You packing on weight could be due to you eating alot. People who usually take protein are the ones who cant afford steaks and chicken breasts for every meal.

Taking protein will not get you toned, protein is usually used as a meal supplement or to gain weight.

If your lookign to get toned then re-evaluate your diet, and consider eating a little less so that you lose that weight.

[EG STyLeZ]

By toning muscle, you mean losing some body fat? If your main goal is to become more defined, I would be more worried about what you eat throughout the day than the protein shake after your workout.

[riced]

So a protein shake can act like a meal replacement at times?

Well, most of the body fat I'd like to lose is in the gut. I usually don't eat too much, 3 meals a day.. rice in the morning, rice at night.. and maybe a burger for lunch.

Thanks for the advice guys

[muse017]

Originally posted by riced
So a protein shake can act like a meal replacement at times?

Well, most of the body fat I'd like to lose is in the gut. I usually don't eat too much, 3 meals a day.. rice in the morning, rice at night.. and maybe a burger for lunch.

Thanks for the advice guys

My answer is No, Protein shake cannot replace your regular meal.
Working out doesn't make you tonned if you don't control your diet properly. Eat smart and do cardios

[4lti7ude]

Isnt Less weight more reps more tone
More weight less reps more size.

[ZorroAMG]

Rice is not going to help, especially if it's white rice. Simple carbs like white rice, bread, pasta etc are not your friend if you want to lose weight.....

Cardio FTW.

[Eclipse_Spyder]

if u wanna maintain ur regular weight and nothing else u need to have atleast 1gram of protein per pound of body weight, if u wanna get really muscular and big u need atleast 2 grams of protein for each pound of body weight

[Jerms]

you got to consider genetics and really importantly your diet..

but i do suggest you do higher reps with lighter weight and see where that takes you.. working out and goals are different for everhbody so start somewhere.. then change it up as you see changes in your body

but don't forget to sweat..

[dkmlam]

cardio burns fat and tones your body overall. i take protein after i work out because i find that it helps my body recover and you get faster gains in size and tone. if you want gains, you will need protein directly after your workout (when your body needs it the most). a whey isolate absorbs fast but is more expensive relative to a whey concentrate or whey blend (does not absorb as fast and is not as pure).

[max_boost]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Rice is not going to help, especially if it's white rice. Simple carbs like white rice, bread, pasta etc are not your friend if you want to lose weight.....

Cardio FTW.

Now I'm no expert on this stuff but it is that simple.

I'm also 5'5 145llbs LOL and have a gut but 30 mins on the cardio nightly is slowly shredding away the fat, but that's all for not because some nights I load up on the rice or go for late night fast food/pizza binges to satisfy cravings hahahaha. I can feel and see the effects it has. I figure since I was going to be eating this stuff anyway, at least I'm doing some cardio to combat it :D

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by max_boost


Now I'm no expert on this stuff but it is that simple.

I'm also 5'5 145llbs LOL and have a gut but 30 mins on the cardio nightly is slowly shredding away the fat, but that's all for not because some nights I load up on the rice or go for late night fast food/pizza binges to satisfy cravings hahahaha. I can feel and see the effects it has. I figure since I was going to be eating this stuff anyway, at least I'm doing some cardio to combat it :D


AHHHH! No late night eating , and pizza is SHIT!!

Eat your damn breakfast and eat through out the day , then you wont have the late night urges to eat!

Also eat 10-20mins after your work out !

Food and diet is so important to loseing weight!

[snowboard]

Originally posted by JAYMEZ



AHHHH! No late night eating ,

is it honestly that bad?
maybe i should cut it out lol...

[ZorroAMG]

YES, Jaymez is correct. As much as I LOVE pizza and poutine late at night, nothing could be worse for the fat battle.

CRAP high carb, high fat greasy food plus eating before bed where your metabolism is at its slowest is OF THE LOST.

But a pound or two of Fruit Creme or Pirate peanut butter cookies is ok, right Jaymez??

:D

[Rocky]

Protein should come with eating properly. If you're not eating properly then you should look at protein -- but most likely you won't need it. It's not a muscle growth formula like some people make it out to be.

You should be more concerned about how you're spending that hour in the gym. Are you doing an effective mix of different sets? Are you working each part of specific muscle groups? Are you doing too many or too few reps per set? These are the questions to answer if you're looking to get sizable OR toned.

For toning though, cardio is key. If you are having trouble with the weight battle, take up a sport. It's a much funner way of getting cardio, you'll meet people, and you'll diet better as a result of wanting to play better. Personally, my love of soccer has been great for me as I don't eat very healthily living as a student. For blasting the stomach, running is great & couple it with a lot of ab exercises at least 4x a week. Develop the muscles so they push outwards while cutting the fat so you can see them.

Oh, and my opinion: Throw out the scale. That number is based on water in your body, doesn't take into account that muscle weighs more than fat... IMHO it's a useless measure for a man. Get a full body mirror and make that your basis of judging how effective your working out is. Once you start seeing the improvement even a little, you'll be driven 5x as hard to eat right, exercise frequently, and hit the gym more.

[BenC]

Rocky basically summed it up. I'm in a somewhat same boat. im 5'6 at 205. i was 220 few weeks ago. and all i can say is CARDIO is key, half an hour everyday. You'll notice changes right away, my cardio is up alot and im so proud of it. Also Diet is HUGE!. Cut out all unnecessary carbs like white rice, and white bread. Cutting consists of at least 70% diet.

[riced]

wow thanks for the great info guys

I guess I'll try out the more reps, less weight thing
and try and fit in some cardio within the exercise

I do have a mixed set of workouts for each day, not just bicep bicep tricep bicep like I see most people doing. I've learned it's not the way to go

I'll try to watch my diet too.. :rolleyes:

[dharminder]

I would like to add couple of things regarding protein. This is just my personal experience, but so is working out what works for one does not work for all.
Like someone has mentioned, eat a good breakfast, lunch and keep it lean meat for dinner. But in between I take 3 shakes through out the day. With my shake I would have a fruit or veggie depending on the day and what I packed. To maintain your body weight 1g protein for body weight just adjust your shakes accordingly seeing your looking to maintain size but trim down. This will also help with the late night eating. Example would be
7am breakfast
10am shake fruit/veggies
1pm lunch
3pm shake
6pm dinner
9pm shake and tablespoon peanut butter.

Cardio is good, but the biggest that people forgot to mention is water. Drinking water will help alot. This will cut down on your eating but will help you drop weight also. Aim for 4L a day (working your way up to it)

[98type_r]

I for one have never taken protein, mainly because I've never really felt the need to. Through HS and university, I worked out regularily and saw decent gains without it. I stopped hitting the gym for a few years but just got back into it about a year ago.
At 6'0 and 195 lbs I think I'm a good size and really don't want to bulk up anymore at the risk of having to replace my wardrobe.
That being said, I do need to ramp up my cardio and watch my intake to get the rest of my goals. Like most others here, I have some excess fat in the midsection that needs to go.

[rx7boi]

For starters, you'll want to take protein just to replace materials that your body needs for growth. Different foods have different b.v's (biological value). The b.v. basically means how much of a food your body utilizes.

Bottom line, you NEED protein to grow.

By comparison, natural foods such as whole eggs have the most biological value (100%). Most protein powders have a b.v. of 125% - 150%. The reason they pack so much into it is because many people experience poverty of time in our busy society these days.

If you're still not losing the weight that you want, you may want to consider doing more cardio. Furthermore, you will want to research the difference between fat burning and caloric burning.

Don't worry about eating calories - you won't get fat if you keep it in check. Why? Because your body burns calories throughout the day. All you need to make sure is to keep a caloric deficit so you don't eat more than you can burn off.

Just one more thing, being cut/ripped also means you need to do your core exercises. You obviously know that cardio is important, but every muscle is the same - the more you work it, the more you bring it out. If you burn alot of fat, that's great, but you still need to pump your abs if you want them to show. Otherwise you'll have "skinny man" abs as opposed to "male model" abs.

Hope this helps.


- Marco

[kerry]

Originally posted by 4lti7ude
Isnt Less weight more reps more tone
More weight less reps more size.

Not necessarily. Only at extremes. You're best bet is to do a weight anywhere between 8-12 reps x 3 sets. That's where I personally found the best toning and lean mass building. I'm pretty damn proud of how my arms/back/shoulders now and that is how I did it. They're not huge, but they're pretty toned and hard.

[riced]

thanks guys
like 98type_r said, the only problem area is the gut. It's not overly big, or even noticeable.. but like most of you (I'd assume), I'm pretty self conscious about it. I'm not asking for washboard abs, but I don't want a small lump so I'm working to get rid of it.

I picked up so ISO XP protein today, and I'm gonna start mixing them with fruits to help get the nutrients up. I'll see how the cardio thing goes, my stamina has gone down drastically from high school.

would 15-20 minutes of running or biking at the gym be good and then weights for the last 40 minutes?

[TravisD62]

dude, just lift like you are now. try HIIT training, and do a half hour of cardio after your workouts, make sure you keep your protein intake up so you don't lose an excessive amount of muscle mass when you cut. obviously a proper diet is more important than a shake, but 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight is more than sufficient, and it doesn't hurt to make sure you get that. keep your carbs down, and still make sure you eat. ideally, you only want to cut 500 calories a day, 250 out of your diet, and 250 by excersize. eat at least every 3 hours, and train hard. this stuff takes alot of time. another thing, don't weigh yourself much. your bodyweight can fluctuate ~10lbs just from water weight. and, if it's abs your after remember the only way you see them is dropping your bf%. you could do all the crunches in the world and still see no results without a lower bodyfat, but it's impossible to just target one area for weightloss, so you have to drop your entire body at once.

[wintonyk]

I have read alot on protein requirements being .8 g/kg for the average person and up to 2.0 g/kg for resistance training. I know men's health recommends about 2 per pound. I have never noticed any difference between eating 160 g per day and 300 g per day. 2 g per pound is kinda outrageous if you think about it. But something works for everyone.

One thing I tried though was saving 3 oz of meat to eat right before bed. Most of you should know that the muscle repair occurs at night. I found this helped.

like most guys have said keep up with your lifting schedule just throw in more cardio. One thing worth trying too is circuits. If you can keep up your HR throughout your entire resistance training it will be just as good as the treadmill.

If you get a HR monitor try using that to gage your rest periods. Once your HR gets to 140 for example start the next set.

[mikestang]

you dont need protein supplements if you're not doing anything intense... and when I say intense I mean fucking gaining mass amounts of weight and expecting huge gains..

drinking those fucking booster juice shakes and shit is a waste... buying expensive protein powder is a joke... just goto superstore and get a cheap noname brand whey protein if anything....

if you're doing lots of cardio, make sure you do take enough protein and calories, and also get l-glutamin and vitamin b12, since those really help in muscle recovery and minimize muscle loss during cardio.

you don't fucking need 1g of protein for every lb.. jesus christ.. you do realize that the majority of powder protein you don't even absorb? it just passes through your system... not to mention when you take large amounts of protein at the same time - same shit, you don't absorb much into your body.

its the same as anything else, contiously eating throughout a day so your body continously gets the nutrients it needs effectively, since your muscles are always rebuilding and tearing, you need those nutrients continously... not twice a day.

I drink 1-2 protein drinks in a day... 1 in the morning because im half dead and too lazy to make anything, and 1 before or after a workout (before if im on an empty stomach) and after if i dunno when im eating. other than that.. during my bulk I eat a couple cans of tuna a day, have a triple from wendy's with a chicken on it, and once or twice a week i eat fucking mcdonalds breakfast, wendys triple chicken, mcdonalds for lunch, multiple tuna, couple protein drinks, pizza, jesus christ. thats also because when I bulk I train like a scary mother fucker lol.. im hungry 24/7


ps. straight protein powder isnt meal replacement. the shit has 130calories usually.. it helps when you're doing cardio because it fills you up for a few hours which is essentially when you're trying to only eat salad, which is why its recommended when doing cardio.

[riced]

thanks for the tips

no, I'm not trying to gain huge amounts of muscle, just to tone out.
My main goal at the moment is to put more cardio into my workouts and to cut out white rice, fast foods etc.
So far I've stuck to brown rice and lean meat at night.. during the day is fruit shakes and some protein powder.

mikestang, I've seen you posting about eating whatever, and working hard at the gym. I respect that, but I personally don't feel like I'm getting anything out of my workouts but a bad liver and some extra fat that I don't need.
I think it's different for everyone though, not everyone can eat mcdonalds and wendys everyday, go to the gym to work out like mad and still be in good shape on the outside. lucky you though

[mikestang]

im not saying for you to do that, im saying protein powder is essentially useless unless you work hard and really need that extra protein intake that you just cant do with eating regular foods.

tone = no fat.
to tone, you lose weight and you lose strength.. keep up with vitamin b12 and l-glutamine and just make sure you keep your protein intake sufficient... you don't need protein powder to do so, just include tuna salads and what not in your diet. 1 can of tuna is 30g... 2 cans of tuna goes a long way in a day

[CivicTunr]

i don't know, the way he is saying toning is like he wants to cut.

and I'm doing a hour of cardio a day, and i have been noticing changes definately more defined than i was before.

[riced]

an hour of cardio! wow you must be doing it for a long time for you to be able to stay that long. I'm working my way up and I'm able to do 15 minutes max before I need a break and going again.

[CivicTunr]

haha not heavy cardio, just fat burn. i want to get rid of my fat not muscle. if you do heavy cardio instead of just burning the fat, the body just trys to take supply from where ever it can, so muscle too instead of fat.

[Higgins]

Also what is the differance between protein and creatine? And is one better than the other in the way of supplements?

[jcrules99]

protein and creatine are completely different

protein helps repair tissues in your body and is therefore required if you want to build muscle, try to eat around 1 to 1.5 grams per bodyweight

creatine is found within your actual muscles and basically helps supply the energy to your muscles at the cellular level, creatine supplements basically allow you to keep going longer and get those few extra reps in

another important factor in gaining muscle is eating carbs! carbs are required for normal nervous system function because the brain uses glucose as energy, plus carbs help replenish your glycogen stores in the muscle, helping with a quicker recovery

No refined carbs, try to eat whole wheat and whole grain, try and eat carbs at breakfast and lunch so you can burn them off during the day, go low carb around dinner time, carbs are important because they are the body's main energy source and if there is a lack of carbs it will start going to other sources such as protein and fat,

to the original poster

start with a 5-10 min cardio warmup, try and do your weights first so you use up your body's muscle and liver glycogen stores, do cardio at the the end of your workout so it starts using your fat stores as a primary source of energy

[Turbojono]

This thread is unreal...from the "Less weight more reps more tone" myth to the "protein makes you bulk up nonsense."
IMO, protein supplements should be taken by every active person. It's definately not a meal replacement, protein shakes and weight gainers are not the same thing. It's a near perfect snack because it has so much nutritional content yet costs significantly less in calories and money than "real food." It should be taken inbetween meals (to keep your metabolic rate up through out the day) and directly after training (when your body needs it the most).

"A toned physic has more to diet, proper technique, and a variety of exercises so that the muscle developes more uniformly shaped. More weight=more work=better results. I've always been told the maximum amount of reps with the maximum amount of weight that your form allows is what works best. The only time you might explore slightly lowering or increasing weight/reps is to shatter lifting plateaus.
Try lifting for "bulk" on a cutting diet with HIIT cardio in the mix and see how tonned you'd get."

[hassanc21]

If you want a good resource for finding a balanced healthy diet that will help you avoid putting on weight around the middle (and lose the stuff you do have), Try a book called:
The G.I. Diet by Rick Gallop.
It's a great tool to help you decide what is best for you. It has an easy to read and follow format. It's more about choosing the right foods and meal planning.

As for protein, it will not make you fat. Protein is a building block for your body (everything from nails, hair, muscle, etc). Cutting out protein while weight training is denying your body the building blocks it needs to recover).

Don't use 'weight gainers' use a protein only supplement.

Consult a personal trainer to modify your workout to what you want to achieve. At least you know your getting advice from a trained professional.

[hassanc21]

Also, regarding your cardio before working out, reverse it. When you lift weights (at least moderately intense), you get your heart rate into the fat burning zone if not higher, and it stays this way for a longer period. When you finish it off with cardio your creating a synergistic effect on caloric burning.
You don't have to do cardio for very long either.
Try an interval cardio training system/program.

One minute at an easy/walking pace, one minute at an intense pace. Try it for ten minutes for the first week or two then move up to 15 then 20. You'll be surprised how much you can burn with the short periods of high intensity training.