Why the heck do they put gravel on highways???

[luxor]

As per title why do they do that? I userstand using salt but why gravel rocks/pebbles? I mean they don't do jack shit for traction as they are either in between lanes or all settles on the sides of the highway. I guess they are good for rock chips. :thumbsdow

Gravel should only be used at icy intersections and roads 50km/h or under that do not get plowed. Do they not understand that or am i missing something here?:dunno:

[Toms-SC]

Do you have winter tires?

[nikka]

its rocks or salt. take your pick.

[Ihatetowait]

Winter tires should be mandatory in this city. I'm sick of seeing dipshits sliding around because they think all seasons cut it. Rocks wouldnt be necessary if everyone had winters and knew how to drive, the only time I think they should use rocks is at iced over points.

I actually saw a city truck salting/sanding bare pavement. It's ridiculous.

Random rock chips happen-whatever. But when someone rides the edge or rides the median unknowingly or intentionally spits up rocks, I'm going to plow in front of them and shower their car.

[4bier]

cancer or stonechips

[nikka]

if everyone had winters and knew how to drive

:rofl: :rofl:

[boredengineer]

:nut: Winters don't work when there is nothing but ice. That's why they spread gravel. Case closed?

[Ihatetowait]

How often does ice accumulate on in the centre divider of deerfoot? They need to ice small intersections not dry causeways>


Case closed, yes, city maintenance people guilty.

[theken]

i drive all seasons cause im not a shitty pussy driver, i dont slide all over the place, and have never been in an accident, i use common sense instead of wasting a 1000 bucks

[Ihatetowait]

So, when you're trying to stop on ice or snow, and you smash into someone, don't come bitch here?

[diggity]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait
How often does ice accumulate on in the centre divider of deerfoot? They need to ice small intersections not dry causeways>


Case closed, yes, city maintenance people guilty.

Deerfoot is bad on mornings after a snow storm or a really cold spell, and it's covered with packed down snow which turns to ice. This usualy doesn't dissipate until mid morning or sometimes early afternoon.

If you didn't work bankers hours, you might know this. Try not following so close, problems solved.

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait
So, when you're trying to stop on ice or snow, and you smash into someone, don't come bitch here?
OMG you must be the l33test driver with your winter tires...

But seriously are people really this ignorant when it comes to all seasons. They are not fucking summer tires. I can still stop on ice/snow no problems and Most times it is because of the driver not the tires.

[Maddog55]

Originally posted by luxor
As per title why do they do that? I userstand using salt but why gravel rocks/pebbles? I mean they don't do jack shit for traction as they are either in between lanes or all settles on the sides of the highway. I guess they are good for rock chips. :thumbsdow

Gravel should only be used at icy intersections and roads 50km/h or under that do not get plowed. Do they not understand that or am i missing something here?:dunno:

Salt is ineffective at temps below -5.

calgary's salt policy (http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_430406_0_0_18/Salt+Management+Plan.htm#1)

[ZorroAMG]

Oh WTF?? Are you new to winter? Don't like it, move. I am pretty sure the city has safety in mind over the prettiness of your honda.

Buy 3M film and quit bitching!

[fast95pony]

Maybe you can get away with using all-seasons in the winter.

Some people drive performance vehicles and like to use summer only tires during the summer and winter tires in the winter to get the best performance from their vehicles.

Speading gravel is a lot cheaper than snow removal.
And we have to pay for all of Bronco's trips somehow..

[4lti7ude]

Originally posted by theken
i drive all seasons cause im not a shitty pussy driver, i dont slide all over the place, and have never been in an accident, i use common sense instead of wasting a 1000 bucks

I hate it when people say they arnt gonna spend "1000" on winter tiers.
Seriously...i drive a ghetto CR-X and even I can afford winter tiers...
People just need to understand that these arnt like All-Seasons where you drive them around ALLLL the time.
All you need them for is the winter seasons and so if you dont drive them hard, they will last you a good amount of winter months to come. So in turn its Money WELL spent.

And hell if people cant afford new ones then try to find some used ones that are in good shape.

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by 4lti7ude


I hate it when people say they arnt gonna spend "1000" on winter tiers.
Seriously...i drive a ghetto CR-X and even I can afford winter tiers...
People just need to understand that these arnt like All-Seasons where you drive them around ALLLL the time.
All you need them for is the winter seasons and so if you dont drive them hard, they will last you a good amount of winter months to come. So in turn its Money WELL spent.

And hell if people cant afford new ones then try to find some used ones that are in good shape.
I can afford to buy them, I choose not too. I got brand new all seasons which are hella good. I would rather put that $1000 elsewhere.

[Strider]

I don't know where everyone is pulling $1000 as the cost of winter tires, but you can get them a lot cheaper than that.

Also, if you're switching between two sets of tires they'll last as long as using two sets of all-season tires back to back. So you're really not "wasting $1000" you're investing in two sets at once instead of buying one set of all-seasons now and replacing them when they wear out.

Winter tires in Calgary = no brainer

[theken]

225/55R17 97H
In Store Only $249.99 canadian tire 249.99x4=??? thats where my $1000 figure comes from, i didn't make it up.

I can afford winter tires, its not the money thats the problem, I would rather use driving skill then think i am unstoppable. its all the people that get them and think, hey i can tailgate and go super fast around corners cause i have winter tires, bet you over half of the accidents on the road is assholes with winter tires

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by theken
225/55R17 97H
In Store Only $249.99 canadian tire 249.99x4=??? thats where my $1000 figure comes from, i didn't make it up.

I can afford winter tires, its not the money thats the problem, I would rather use driving skill then think i am unstoppable. its all the people that get them and think, hey i can tailgate and go super fast around corners cause i have winter tires, bet you over half of the accidents on the road is assholes with winter tires

CBC and the rally car drivers would argue other wise
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/get_a_grip/
You don't even have to read, just watch the video

Its official, drive with winter tires and your a PUSSY!!!!!!


Originally posted by theken
i drive all seasons cause im not a shitty pussy driver, i dont slide all over the place, and have never been in an accident, i use common sense instead of wasting a 1000 bucks

[Palmiros]

Just thought I'd add my perspective when it comes to winter tires.
Winter tires are made for one thing, and one thing only; winter driving. They are NOT made for dry roads (hence the MAD tread wear on dry surfaces). I'm also aware that we live in Calgary, weather changes are frequent and swift. I don't know if anyone keeps track of how many days of the year it actually snows in Calgary, but whatever that number is, it does NOT add up to owning/having to buy winter tires. In my oppinion it is not worth buying winter tires if you're going to use them 3-4-5-6 times a year. Now you may tell me you use them more often then than; the only way you'd use them more often is if you don't take them off on the dry days. When it comes to snow and ice, the best winter tire will not work to your advantage if you drive like a dolt.
Winter tires offer BETTER traction/handling then all seasons; no doubt about it, but for the conditions Calgary has to offer it just does NOT make sense to have a designated set of winter tires. imo. (puts flame suit on)

[Toms-SC]

Is any of that based on fact Mr.Palmiros? Care to expand on how they are no good on dry pavement?

[962 kid]

It's only snowy 5 or 6 times a year in Calgary? Jesus I must live in the wrong end of town then :rolleyes:

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by Palmiros
Just thought I'd add my perspective when it comes to winter tires.
Winter tires are made for one thing, and one thing only; winter driving. They are NOT made for dry roads (hence the MAD tread wear on dry surfaces). I'm also aware that we live in Calgary, weather changes are frequent and swift. I don't know if anyone keeps track of how many days of the year it actually snows in Calgary, but whatever that number is, it does NOT add up to owning/having to buy winter tires. In my oppinion it is not worth buying winter tires if you're going to use them 3-4-5-6 times a year. Now you may tell me you use them more often then than; the only way you'd use them more often is if you don't take them off on the dry days. When it comes to snow and ice, the best winter tire will not work to your advantage if you drive like a dolt.
Winter tires offer BETTER traction/handling then all seasons; no doubt about it, but for the conditions Calgary has to offer it just does NOT make sense to have a designated set of winter tires. imo. (puts flame suit on)

watch the cbc video. Unless you live in Van or Victoria where it really doesnt get that cold. You need/want winter tires

[three.eighteen.]

Originally posted by theken
225/55R17 97H
In Store Only $249.99 canadian tire 249.99x4=??? thats where my $1000 figure comes from, i didn't make it up.

I can afford winter tires, its not the money thats the problem, I would rather use driving skill then think i am unstoppable. its all the people that get them and think, hey i can tailgate and go super fast around corners cause i have winter tires, bet you over half of the accidents on the road is assholes with winter tires

winter tires do not make anyone think they are unstoppable and gives them the right to drive like retards...it is the retard that causes this behaviour, regardless of tire choice

i guess it all depends on what you drive (amount of power, drivetrain layout etc), in order to determine how badly you need winter tires

since beyond is made up mainly of performance/sports (loose definition) car drivers, it inevitably creates a bias in the perceived need of winter tires in posts...with a sports car (often with rims) the typical beyond user likely wants a dedicated perf tire in the warmer months leaving the most logical choice for winter tires during the cold months

i found that while driving my bmw, winter tires were essential without traction control or lsd, but my tercel and integra would likely be fine with all seasons (though i have winters on my teg)

[fast95pony]

I'm on my fourth winter with the same set of Blizzaks.If you drive sensibly,they last.
1K for tires is a lot cheaper than a crash..

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by boredengineer
:nut: Winters don't work when there is nothing but ice. That's why they spread gravel. Case closed?

ahh, yes they do. What makes ice slippery isn't the ice itself, but the thin, micro-layer of water on top of it. Winter tires are more plyable in cold weather and more sips, so they flush away the micro-layer better than allseasons so that more of the tire makes contact with the surface of the road, thus providing more grip.

[stvtec]

My wife and I just got a 08 mazda 3 sport gt model and it had the 17" goodyear rs-a on it, we could barley get any where with those tires. I ended up putting a toyo winter tire on the car, and I can tell you they paid for themselves in the second day. Some dumbass in front of me slammed on their brakes on a snow/ice covered road and if it wasnt for the winters I just installed I would not have been able to stop and I know I wouldnt have.

[Palmiros]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Is any of that based on fact Mr.Palmiros? Care to expand on how they are no good on dry pavement?

Sure.

Take a popular winter tire; (Blizzak WS-50) and compare with an all season tire. (Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S)

Surveyed Averages 4 94 % 8.1 8.0 6.9 7.6 7.0 9.4 9.1 8.7 7.9 7.1 7.2 14,064,496 <--- Blizzak WS-50
Surveyed Averages 1 100% 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.2 8.9 8.1 7.4 7.4 8.9 8.6 8.9 3,745,214 <--- Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S
Source: TireRack.com
Bold represents cornering stability, dry handling & steering response

"Tires marked "M + S" ( "mud and snow" tires), also known as "all-season" tires, provide safe all-weather performance, but may not be suitable in heavy snow."
-Canada Safety Council (http://www.safety-council.org/info/traffic/snowtires.html)

Winter tires use a softer rubber . Sure it's good in the winter, but come around warmer temperatures + dry pavement, you'll notice accelerated tread wear & less control (handling). They will be noisier, and you will (depending on pattern/softness) get worse gas mileage, compared to all-seasons.

As previously mentioned, I'm not here to argue, I'm simply expressing my opinion. This is my point of view, and everyone is entitled to their own. I strongly believe A/S fit the type of environment we live in. It's up to you (and you driving style/vehicle) to decide what you need.

- Alex

[mikestang]

ok, so when you're trying to cross a road with all seasons - you need a LOT more time between vehicles than you would vs. winter tires..

im driving a rental car because my truck is in the body shop and it has all seasons - it's a fucking joke. it's god damn retarded how slow I have to take corners and how long of a wait it is to get out of my sub division.. with my truck in 2wd I can get out alot easier and I have almost no weight on my rear axles (nitto all terrains 33s-rated one of the best winter all terrains -not all season.. truck tires are different they naturally throw out slush and rain better) my friend has the same truck, but blizzaks and aswell i tell a huge difference vs mine on ice-but slush is about the same

saying all seasons is just as fine as winter if you're a smart driver is just ridiculous.. ok, let's spend 3x as long at intersections, take forever to accelerate, risk sliding while accelerating or losing traction in slushy sections and potetntially side swipping someone (you can't argue that fact, all seasons have horrible traction in slush vs. winter tires)

good winter tires are night and day vs. any all season - you're just too ignorant to buy those tires to realize the difference yourself.

the last week in edmonton alone has been shitty roads - so that means I would need 6 other months of dry pavement to not make it worth it.

ive had all seasons and winter tires on all my vehicles and I notice the difference... a very large difference. one of the only "all season" that could do a good job is goodyear triple tread, which is more expensive than a dedicated winter tire (and isnt as good)... so that defeats the purpose of saving money.

[mikestang]

oh yeah.. what happens when someone cuts you off and you're in your all seasons? oh snap you just braked and started drifing into that car beside you.

oh snap, you just sideswipped someone and the driver who cut you off got away so you have noone to blame and you're at fault.. oh snap.

it's called preparing for the unforseen.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Palmiros


Sure.

Take a popular winter tire; (Blizzak WS-50) and compare with an all season tire. (Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S)

Surveyed Averages 4 94 % 8.1 8.0 6.9 7.6 7.0 9.4 9.1 8.7 7.9 7.1 7.2 14,064,496 &lt;--- Blizzak WS-50
Surveyed Averages 1 100% 8.9 8.9 9.0 9.2 8.9 8.1 7.4 7.4 8.9 8.6 8.9 3,745,214 &lt;--- Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S
Source: TireRack.com
Bold represents cornering stability, dry handling &amp; steering response

-Canada Safety Council (http://www.safety-council.org/info/traffic/snowtires.html)

Winter tires use a softer rubber . Sure it's good in the winter, but come around warmer temperatures + dry pavement, you'll notice accelerated tread wear &amp; less control (handling). They will be noisier, and you will (depending on pattern/softness) get worse gas mileage, compared to all-seasons.

As previously mentioned, I'm not here to argue, I'm simply expressing my opinion. This is my point of view, and everyone is entitled to their own. I strongly believe A/S fit the type of environment we live in. It's up to you (and you driving style/vehicle) to decide what you need.

- Alex the "results" you provided are from buyer satisfaction surveys, which convey nothing about the actual performance of the tire itself.

[mikestang]

Originally posted by gpomp
the &quot;results&quot; you provided are from buyer satisfaction surveys, which convey nothing about the actual performance of the tire itself.

not to mention it was from 5 people LOL 4 for the blizzaks and 1 from the all season.

[theken]

Originally posted by mikestang
oh yeah.. what happens when someone cuts you off and you're in your all seasons? oh snap you just braked and started drifing into that car beside you.

oh snap, you just sideswipped someone and the driver who cut you off got away so you have noone to blame and you're at fault.. oh snap.

it's called preparing for the unforseen.
snap don't cut people off, I am not concerned while i drive, i know i am in control, i would rather have a good set of all seasons then a cheap set of winter tires, there really is no argument here, its all personal preference, i dont want to spend money when i dont have to, if i get in an accident that is my fault then its my fault, but that won't happen, cause i leave the recommended 4 seconds following distance, and when people cut in front of me i slow down and regain my following distance.

and to the guy that bought the mazda, they don't have all seasons on the mazda it is a summer tire, my wife had one

[Palmiros]

Originally posted by gpomp
the &quot;results&quot; you provided are from buyer satisfaction surveys, which convey nothing about the actual performance of the tire itself.

I thought the results were relevant, because they were buyer satisfaction surveys. Different people live in different environments, give different ratings corresponding to their level of satisfaction and tire performance, which in my opinion make for a well balanced survey.
If we're to analyze data provided by manufacturers, all tires would be "the same".

@mikestang: There are hundreds of reviews for each tire listed on tirerack. (you just have to expand the list by clicking more).

[A790]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Oh WTF?? Are you new to winter? Don't like it, move. I am pretty sure the city has safety in mind over the prettiness of your honda.

Buy 3M film and quit bitching!
BIZAM. TRUTH BE TOLD!

[luxor]

There are useful responses:


Originally posted by Maddog55


Salt is ineffective at temps below -5.

calgary's salt policy (http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_430406_0_0_18/Salt+Management+Plan.htm#1)

And USELESS responses:


Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Oh WTF?? Are you new to winter? Don't like it, move. I am pretty sure the city has safety in mind over the prettiness of your honda.

Buy 3M film and quit bitching!

Nice one troll and thats not my car as stated in my profile anymore, my 335i can easily buy 3 of your car idiot.

[Strider]

Originally posted by theken
225/55R17 97H
In Store Only $249.99 canadian tire 249.99x4=??? thats where my $1000 figure comes from, i didn't make it up.

I can afford winter tires, its not the money thats the problem, I would rather use driving skill then think i am unstoppable. its all the people that get them and think, hey i can tailgate and go super fast around corners cause i have winter tires, bet you over half of the accidents on the road is assholes with winter tires

Fine, you got me on that one... If you're smrt enough to go pay full price @ crappy tire instead of supporting one of our many sponsors who try their hardest to match tirerack.com pricing. Then yes, it'll cost you $1000.

You'd rather use driving skill? What makes owning winter tires and using driving skill mutually exclusive?? Why not use your "driving skill" in conjuction with winter tires... Sure you can keep yourself out of an accident using all-seasons, I'm not disputing that... but if you can stop, accelerate, and corner better (not to mention avoid accidents from those other jackasses with winter tires), then it really is a no-brainer. Would you go to the track with bald tires just so you can show off your magnificent driving skill? Didn't think so... so why drive around with less traction on icy winter streets?


Originally posted by theken
i dont want to spend money when i dont have to

You just contradicted yourself on the "it's not the money that's the problem". Seriously though... swapping between winters and all seasons (or summers) will still have the same life as two sets of tires back to back... so you're really not spending more.

But alas... to each their own. I just hate being behind that jackass who thinks he's elite on all seasons at the icy intersection spinning his wheels, not getting anywhere and making it even icier for the next guy.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by gpomp
the &quot;results&quot; you provided are from buyer satisfaction surveys, which convey nothing about the actual performance of the tire itself.

This. There is no science or testing behind personal opinion.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by luxor

Nice one troll and thats not my car as stated in my profile anymore, my 335i can easily buy 3 of your car idiot.

Troll? Elle Oh Elle.

Actually your common-mobile could buy about 5 of mine, but I'd STILL take my car instead of living Chez Mama.

Get 3M, AS I ALREADY SAID, a winter beater or quit bitching, "High Rolla"

:rolleyes:

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


CBC and the rally car drivers would argue other wise
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/get_a_grip/
You don't even have to read, just watch the video

Its official, drive with winter tires and your a PUSSY!!!!!!

that rally driver has nothing against the driving skillz of theken.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Palmiros
I don't know if anyone keeps track of how many days of the year it actually snows in Calgary, but whatever that number is, it does NOT add up to owning/having to buy winter tires.

You should be keeping track of the number of days the temperature is lower than -7c because that is when your all seasons will start losing its effectiveness.


Originally posted by Strider
You'd rather use driving skill? What makes owning winter tires and using driving skill mutually exclusive?? Why not use your &quot;driving skill&quot; in conjuction with winter tires... Sure you can keep yourself out of an accident using all-seasons, I'm not disputing that... but if you can stop, accelerate, and corner better (not to mention avoid accidents from those other jackasses with winter tires), then it really is a no-brainer. Would you go to the track with bald tires just so you can show off your magnificent driving skill? Didn't think so... so why drive around with less traction on icy winter streets?

:werd: That pretty much sums it up. There is no point in trying to convince theken otherwise since he has already stated his personal opinion on the matter.

[dimi]

Most people claiming they don't need winter tires haven't had winter tires on. This is my first winter on winter tires and like others have stated its a day/night difference. Plus I just got the new Blizzak WS-60 from tirerack + mounting and balancing at Walmart = $600. They do tend to slide a lot more than summers but still hold a steady line, not that you should be pushing these hard in the winter. I still maintain a Winter/Summer tire combo is the best of all worlds.

[heavyD]

Back to the gravel part. I understand gravel at icy intersections but as someone already said, they gravel dry sections as well. In fact the city gravels whether the roads need it or not at the slightest trace of snow which is what drives me crazy. I also think people don't realize how much it costs to have the entire city gravelled every day. It costs alot of $$$$ in manpower and OT. The city is so obsessed with graveling in the roads they even use it in the summer when it rains heavily as I have seen first hand trucks gravel John Laurier in July.

Even Edmonton doesn't use as much gravel as Calgary and being the windshield capital of North America is telling in itself. IMO the majority of graveling is a major waste of taxpayer money.

[adam c]

My Life & Safety > New Windshield

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by adam c
My Life &amp; Safety &gt; New Windshield
:werd:
And if you are getting a shower of gravel, maybe you are following too close....?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by adam c
My Life &amp; Safety &gt; New Windshield

If you think a few (I say a few because 95% get sprayed into the sides after initial vehicles pass) chips on the road is the difference between life and death, you are delusional.

[adam c]

Originally posted by heavyD


If you think a few (I say a few because 95% get sprayed into the sides after initial vehicles pass) chips on the road is the difference between life and death, you are delusional.

really cause there were a few roads that were almost impassible due to the fact of no traction, and i have winter tires.. ie anderson and barlow on friday night

[heavyD]

Originally posted by adam c


really cause there were a few roads that were almost impassible due to the fact of no traction, and i have winter tires.. ie anderson and barlow on friday night

If you read my earlier post I said I understant gravel at intersections or hills for traction but once you are rolling the gravel serves no purpose but reduce tire contact with pavement. I have winter tires on a deuce which is probably one of the worst vehicles you could drive in the winter and haven't had one instance all winter where I haven't had traction or lost traction.

Bottom line: I understand in poor weather it's required but the city dumps it even in mild weather.

[Rat Fink]

.

[Mr_ET]

All I will say is intelligent people will by winter tires regardless of the car if they need to winter drive their car.

Others are the reason why we have so many accidents when it snows and gravel is used liberally everywhere.

What gets to me is I do the right thing, have good winter tires, drive safe and addapt to the conditions yet I still have to pay for a new windshield every year because other people can't have the same decency.

Cars are expensive, if they are too expensive that you can't afford proper tires, take the bus.

[cloud7]

Originally posted by theken
bet you over half of the accidents on the road is assholes with winter tires

You got the data to back that up?

[whiskas]

Originally posted by Strider

But if you can stop, accelerate, and corner better (not to mention avoid accidents from those other jackasses with winter tires), then it really is a no-brainer. Would you go to the track with bald tires just so you can show off your magnificent driving skill?


Track tires don't go bald, they get corded.

Sure I can corner/accelerate better with winter tires but I don't need to. I drive like an absolute granny during winter, and all seasons despite not providing the grip I'm used to are sufficient because I have the experience to compensate.

I've been driving for years through winters on the same shitty, near bald all season tires from Canadian tire that came with my car. Combine that with a stiff suspension and a ridiculous amount of negative camber at my drive wheels, you could say the odds are against me. Sure I've had some butt clenching moments, but talent always pulled me through :D

If you're the type of person that starts pissing their pants when they lose traction then by all means get winter tires, but some of us are used to it and know precisely what to do, there's no sense grouping us with inexperienced drivers and forcing us to buy stuff we don't need.

[98brg2d]

Sodium salt actually helps until -18°C not -5°C as earlier posted. The City of Calgary just chooses not to use it at temperatures lower than -5°C and uses gravel and sand instead.

[rage2]

These winter tire debates are hilarious.


Originally posted by whiskas
Sure I can corner/accelerate better with winter tires but I don't need to. I drive like an absolute granny during winter, and all seasons despite not providing the grip I'm used to are sufficient because I have the experience to compensate.

I've been driving for years through winters on the same shitty, near bald all season tires from Canadian tire that came with my car. Combine that with a stiff suspension and a ridiculous amount of negative camber at my drive wheels, you could say the odds are against me. Sure I've had some butt clenching moments, but talent always pulled me through :D
I'll bet you $100 I can out drive you in the same car at a lapping day or an autoX. And I'll still buy winter tires for winter. I will admit, driving on all seasons in the winter when I was younger and inexperienced taught me a lot about driving and car control, but at the end of the day, if I was driving and some idiot does something stupid in front of me, winter tires will complement my driving skills to ensure that both me and my passengers remain safe. The extra traction that winter tires give in winter (yes, even DRY winter roads because of temps) could mean the difference between avoiding an accident or being part of an accident... even if you're Michael Schumacher.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by gpomp
that rally driver has nothing against the driving skillz of theken.

theken knows all. theken sees all. Do not question theken.

[whiskas]

Originally posted by rage2
These winter tire debates are hilarious.

I'll bet you $100 I can out drive you in the same car at a lapping day or an autoX.

They are hilarious, especially when people start bench racing.

If you're serious though, you're welcome to message me later this year when secret street is on, I could use an extra $100. Not to spend on winter tires though :D

[atgilchrist]

Again back to gravel,

I understand its use, it just bugs me because I can't ride my bike safely until May :cry:

[msommers]

Originally posted by theken
i drive all seasons cause im not a shitty pussy driver, i dont slide all over the place, and have never been in an accident, i use common sense instead of wasting a 1000 bucks

Did you just move here from the States?

[theken]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


theken knows all. theken sees all. Do not question theken. damn right, im not saying they aren't useful, i have been on winter tires, i am saying i don't need them, if you people want them buy them, i won't buy them. perhaps if my car was rwd i would have them, if i drove my old 300 in the winter i would have them, on a jetta i have no need for them, i drive 8 km to work.

I am aware they help on ice and all that shit so there really is no debate, you don't NEED winter tires

[Ihatetowait]

Lets chart this out here:

We've established winter tires in the range of 500-1000 dollars. So for an average of 750 (Basic guess) you get:

- better stopping distance
- better traction
- better grip in all conditions especially below zero
- the ability to help prevent an accident in an upredictable situation by being fully prepared
- safer driving in general.


Or, from the arguments posted with all seasons you get:

- 1337 driving skillz.

Are you fucking serious? I drive a 2004 WRX. It's equipped with ABS, EBD, I have a good set of winter tires, and I'm causious on the roads. If there was more I could do in winter to protect my 22,000 dollar investment, I would.

Wait, I did. I bought mud flaps to protect the paint and 3m'd front (well, it came with it when I bought it)

Theres no such thing as being too careful in winter when the roads are slick and theres 75 percent of all people attempting to get traction on all seasons.

End of argument. Winters are safer, winters offer more performace, and anyone who thinks their 1337 driving skillz will help them stop when a deer pops out and you have to brake hard, they're just ignorant.

[Destinova403]

whether or not you have winter tires is not being discussed here... its whether or not the government should pour the gravel and sand on highways which generally clear very quickly...

personally i am inclined to believe that it is only really needed on intersections and hills...

that said, id rather have the stones than salt any day.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by Destinova403
whether or not you have winter tires is not being discussed here...

Did you read past post #2?

[Mr_ET]

We are talking winter tires because this is all a snowball effect. The city adds gravel and sand because studies were done telling them more accidents happened without it. Since most accidents seem to happen on Deerfoot after a snowfall they use heavy gravel and sand there. Because of the volume of traffic, roads clear up fast and then it's just on the ground ready to crack another windshield.

The reality is if everyone had winter tires on their cars in the accidents would still happen cause people suck at driving here but I am sure the numbers would be greatly reduced and perhaps less gravel and sand would be needed...


For all the people that drive around with all seasons, no matter how good you think you drive and how happy you are you saved a little bit of money, you'll spend 3X as much to replace your front bumper when you rear end the guy in front of you some day.

[Stealth22]

While we're on the subject of winter tires...

I drive an '07 Corolla with all seasons...I know that winters are just better, but never got the chance this winter to change my A/S tires to winters. I've had a few gut-wrenching moments this winter too. Just a few days ago, I'm closing in on an intersection to make a right turn. The road was reasonably dry with a bit of snow. What I failed to notice was the patch of black ice, and when the car in front of me (I had quite a bit of following distance...he was second in line to turn, the guy in front of him was stopped yielding to traffic) slowed down a bit quicker than I thought he would, and I had to push on the brakes a bit firmly.

Before I know it, my car isn't slowing down and sliding back and forth, straight towards this guy's back bumper. Luckily I had enough sense to shift down while I had some distance left. The engine did 90+ percent of the braking for me, and I didn't hit him, but the car was slipping and sliding, and almost climbed the curb in the process!

My question is...is it worth it (since we're getting midway through February) to go out and get a set of winters now? The weather is warming up so I don't see a whole lot of point in getting em now. Two other things: How long is the backlog usually for a place like Crappy Tire to change the tires to/from winters and vice versa? And lastly, to find space at my place to store 4 all-seasons while I'm driving on the winters...any ideas?

EDIT: As I said, my car is an '07 model...I remember getting a brochure from the dealership a few months ago about getting winter tires installed by the dealer...lost it, don't remember the price. Is it better to go through them? The website says some dealerships offer a tire storage service, so that would solve the one concern I had...

[Ihatetowait]

Dealer will cost you an arm and leg. Get winters for now, stash the old tires, and come spring you can throw them on.

Mounting tires is cheap. An 07 corolla isn't. Then, come next season you can just take the tires you already have and put them on again. Get the expense out now.

[Stealth22]

Yeah I'll do some shopping around. I expected the dealer would be higher; I remember looking at that brochure they sent me and losing it or chucking it out after scoffing at the price. Explains why I couldn't find it today :rofl:

Any recommendations on brands or where to get em relatively cheaper? How much can I expect to pay for em? Someone said $1000, but then someone else said thats if you pay full price at crappy tire?

[pome902]

What we need guys, Is Calgary spending more money on snow removal,
ottawa spends 8 million i belive a year
we spend not even one million.
we have more snow here but they say the chinook will clear the roads,
not always true , in toronto they have litterally streets lined with snow removal trucks
because they can loose millions in business , whats wrong with calgary !!!!!

[Strider]

Since you're on all-seasons and not performance summers, I think you should be okay for the remainder of the winter... just gotta keep on driving like a granny. You'll probably have a damn hard time finding any tire shops with anything left at this point anyways... so you may as well wait until fall, when some of beyond's sponsors start putting out their winter wheel and tire packages... Do yourself a big favor and don't go to Canadian Tire. CMSJason at Contemporary set me up with a good deal on some winters last month, so I definitely recommend them. Get them mounted on steelies, and you can change them yourself.


Originally posted by Stealth22
My question is...is it worth it (since we're getting midway through February) to go out and get a set of winters now? The weather is warming up so I don't see a whole lot of point in getting em now.

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by Stealth22


My question is...is it worth it (since we're getting midway through February) to go out and get a set of winters now? The weather is warming up so I don't see a whole lot of point in getting em now. Two other things: How long is the backlog usually for a place like Crappy Tire to change the tires to/from winters and vice versa? And lastly, to find space at my place to store 4 all-seasons while I'm driving on the winters...any ideas?



Why not? It is going to snow again next year, and tires are useful for more than just one season....

[pome902]

Originally posted by Strider
Since you're on all-seasons and not performance summers, I think you should be okay for the remainder of the winter... just gotta keep on driving like a granny. You'll probably have a damn hard time finding any tire shops with anything left at this point anyways... so you may as well wait until fall, when some of beyond's sponsors start putting out their winter wheel and tire packages... Do yourself a big favor and don't go to Canadian Tire. CMSJason at Contemporary set me up with a good deal on some winters last month, so I definitely recommend them. Get them mounted on steelies, and you can change them yourself.





Dont forget to torque those bad boys !!!!
so ur new tires and steelies dont fall off =D

[luxor]

now that my thread has turned a debate over winter tires, which i thought was a no brainier for winter, i will add my input.

As for the people who say all season's are fine they obviously haven't used winter tires before or are too cheap to buy some. Example: i use to own a FWD Honda which i thought would be decent enough with all seasons for winter, and after the first snow fall those all seasons were off my car so fast for a nice set of 4 winters. The difference is literally night and day. I didn't have to worry about slipping and sliding, getting stuck on inclined hills or taking 500 feet to stop from 50km/h. I am now a firm believer for winter tires and from that day on i am still using winter tires for winter on all my vehicles and would recommend them to everyone. Seeing as my new car is rwd winter tires are definitely mandatory but don't forget just because you got winter tires it doesn't mean you are invincible you still have to be very careful as any winter tire (unless studded) is almost useless on ice.

Let me break it down a bit more:

Summer tires in winter = Totally USELESS
All seasons in winter = Basically USELESS

Winter tires in winter = your best bet
Winter tires + studs in winter = best you can get

I don't care how mad your driving skills are because all season rubber were not designed for -25 degree roads, physics > you no matter what.

Last but not least, if your winter tires can save you from one accident, just one, you money has been well spent.

[luxor]

Originally posted by adam c
My Life &amp; Safety > New Windshield

WOW just wow! even if you were joking you FAILED miserably, i think you should just walk from now on, oh wait you might turn into a snowman if it all of a sudden decided to snow or drown if a car drove by and splashed you.

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/6026.jpg

[fast95pony]

Originally posted by whiskas


They are hilarious, especially when people start bench racing.

If you're serious though, you're welcome to message me later this year when secret street is on, I could use an extra $100. Not to spend on winter tires though :D


I'll bring the popcorn....

[Mr_ET]

Originally posted by Stealth22
While we're on the subject of winter tires...

I drive an '07 Corolla with all seasons...I know that winters are just better, but never got the chance this winter to change my A/S tires to winters. I've had a few gut-wrenching moments this winter too. Just a few days ago, I'm closing in on an intersection to make a right turn. The road was reasonably dry with a bit of snow. What I failed to notice was the patch of black ice, and when the car in front of me (I had quite a bit of following distance...he was second in line to turn, the guy in front of him was stopped yielding to traffic) slowed down a bit quicker than I thought he would, and I had to push on the brakes a bit firmly.

Before I know it, my car isn't slowing down and sliding back and forth, straight towards this guy's back bumper. Luckily I had enough sense to shift down while I had some distance left. The engine did 90+ percent of the braking for me, and I didn't hit him, but the car was slipping and sliding, and almost climbed the curb in the process!

My question is...is it worth it (since we're getting midway through February) to go out and get a set of winters now? The weather is warming up so I don't see a whole lot of point in getting em now. Two other things: How long is the backlog usually for a place like Crappy Tire to change the tires to/from winters and vice versa? And lastly, to find space at my place to store 4 all-seasons while I'm driving on the winters...any ideas?

EDIT: As I said, my car is an '07 model...I remember getting a brochure from the dealership a few months ago about getting winter tires installed by the dealer...lost it, don't remember the price. Is it better to go through them? The website says some dealerships offer a tire storage service, so that would solve the one concern I had...

Get winter tires man unless you want another possible scare like that one you describe. As mentioned they will last many seasons and I'd always rather pay for tires than bodywork.

Crappy tire sells.. crappy tires talk to cms or bob from ubran expressions on here, they will get you a good deal.


Originally posted by pome902
What we need guys, Is Calgary spending more money on snow removal,
ottawa spends 8 million i belive a year
we spend not even one million.
we have more snow here but they say the chinook will clear the roads,
not always true , in toronto they have litterally streets lined with snow removal trucks
because they can loose millions in business , whats wrong with calgary !!!!!

Contrary to what you seem to believe it snows quite a bit more in Ottawa and Toronto than it does here. That justifies the bigger budget they allocate to snow removal there.

Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you want higher property taxes, the snow removal budget won't grow. You got to pay to play..

I feel that snow removal is adequate in the city right now and I would prefer they used less sand and gravel. With that said I might feel that way because I drive around with winter tires:dunno:

[HPR]

winter tires FTW :) if you want an inexpensive yet great tire, I recommend the Kumho KW19. I have it on my vehicle and my gf's vehicle and it's a night and day difference over all season tires. stop and go driving has never been easier in the ice or snow with them on. unfortunately, none of our cars we own have ABS :(

[Mr_ET]

I also recommend it. I have it on our 2006 Accord and it is great in the snow. Ice traction is better with my goodyear ultragrip ice tires but for the price can't go wrong with the kuhmos. They are about the same price as all seasons yet they offer much better performance in the winter.

[Moe Man]

the only all season tire, is a winter tire :thumbsup:

btw i think calgary should use sand, and they should clean up the rocks earlier than may :thumbsup:

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Moe Man
the only all season tire, is a winter tire :thumbsup:

btw i think calgary should use sand, and they should clean up the rocks earlier than may :thumbsup:

we sometimes get snow right up until april.

and yes, i am using winter tires, Mich x-ice on my stick rims... it is definately a noticable difference...

[Moe Man]

Originally posted by Destinova403


we sometimes get snow right up until april.

and yes, i am using winter tires, Mich x-ice on my stick rims... it is definately a noticable difference...

true but is it nessary to cover the entire city with gravel in april?

[Trini]

Originally posted by pome902
What we need guys, Is Calgary spending more money on snow removal,
ottawa spends 8 million i belive a year
we spend not even one million.
we have more snow here but they say the chinook will clear the roads,
not always true , in toronto they have litterally streets lined with snow removal trucks
because they can loose millions in business , whats wrong with calgary !!!!!
have you seen the amount of snow Toronto and that region gets? They have no choice but to spend so much on snow removal.
I do agree that Calgary should do a bit more snow removal when there actually is snow.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by fast95pony
1K for tires is a lot cheaper than a crash..

:werd:

[rc2002]

Originally posted by heavyD
Back to the gravel part. I understand gravel at icy intersections but as someone already said, they gravel dry sections as well. In fact the city gravels whether the roads need it or not at the slightest trace of snow which is what drives me crazy. I also think people don't realize how much it costs to have the entire city gravelled every day. It costs alot of $$$$ in manpower and OT. The city is so obsessed with graveling in the roads they even use it in the summer when it rains heavily as I have seen first hand trucks gravel John Laurier in July.

Even Edmonton doesn't use as much gravel as Calgary and being the windshield capital of North America is telling in itself. IMO the majority of graveling is a major waste of taxpayer money.

When it comes to snow removal, we're spoiled in Calgary and people STILL manage to complain about it.

I was in Edmonton during the big snowfall and -30 cold snap a couple weeks back - and that didn't even prompt snow removal on some of the smaller and medium sized streets. Most streets didn't have gravel and you couldn't even see lane markings on some of the roads.

Even so, the people still managed. And there were hardly any accidents because people were more careful and more vigilant when driving. Calgary drivers are a bunch of babies.

[86_lude_86]

the part that bugs me about the gravel is as happened today....
some douche in a black bmw was turning right and i was goin straight both stopped at a red light... buddy decides he is goin to floor it around the corner.
for about 5 seconds i hear nothing but the sound of spinning tires and rocks hitting everywhere on the side of my car and then moving to the window.
honestly your spinning so let up. not fucking try harder.
my paint isnt new so its not that bad but still now i have chips everywhere down the side.

[pome902]

Originally posted by Mr_ET


Get winter tires man unless you want another possible scare like that one you describe. As mentioned they will last many seasons and I'd always rather pay for tires than bodywork.

Crappy tire sells.. crappy tires talk to cms or bob from ubran expressions on here, they will get you a good deal.



Contrary to what you seem to believe it snows quite a bit more in Ottawa and Toronto than it does here. That justifies the bigger budget they allocate to snow removal there.

Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you want higher property taxes, the snow removal budget won't grow. You got to pay to play..

I feel that snow removal is adequate in the city right now and I would prefer they used less sand and gravel. With that said I might feel that way because I drive around with winter tires:dunno:



From what ive been told they do not have more snow than we get in calgary,
in niva scotia when i just visited, last year they had one. only one. snowfall, they had a huge strom in december knocked out power but, the streets were filled with snow removal trucks,
some used sand in the inner city but in places not so down town they haddent.
I dont think that paying more property tax is what it is or us paying more, nova scotia is by far not well off,
i think its just the way *they* spend our money.

[pome902]

Originally posted by Trini

have you seen the amount of snow Toronto and that region gets? They have no choice but to spend so much on snow removal.
I do agree that Calgary should do a bit more snow removal when there actually is snow.



But have you seen how many people are involved in collitions here
because of the streets, all i have to say realy is that from seeing how they go about
thier snow removal. we are pathetic. and i had already stated they need to because of
business but what more important life. or money.
obviously money now days.
people are in accident here every snowfall.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Moe Man
true but is it nessary to cover the entire city with gravel in april?

As I said before they even gravel in the summer during heavy rain. Someone high up with the city has a hard on for the stuff.

[me&you]

Originally posted by heavyD


As I said before they even gravel in the summer during heavy rain. Someone high up with the city has a hard on for the stuff.

I have NEVER, not once, seen the City gravel (sand?) the roads in the summer due to rain. Are you sure the rain didn't simply wash some gravel off the medians?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by me&amp;you


I have NEVER, not once, seen the City gravel (sand?) the roads in the summer due to rain. Are you sure the rain didn't simply wash some gravel off the medians?

I was following the truck. LOL!

[rc2002]

Are you sure it was a gravel truck? Or was it a street cleaner?

I've been sprayed by rocks by the street cleaners before. :banghead:

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by theken
i drive all seasons cause im not a shitty pussy driver

So... I must be a shitty pussy driver then. With more traction than you.