Uk tp put new citizens on probation

[JRSC00LUDE]

Common sense or intolerance, let's hear your views.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=322419

[sexualbanana]

Seems kinda vague and subjective.

[Antonito]

Pay taxes? Speak English? What a bunch of Nazi Rednecks!!!

[icecreamvan]

We should put everyone on probation. Especially if you live in the NE.

[3g4u]

I think this is a great idea. The most important thing is preserving culture and heritage. If you dont want to learn english WTF are you moving to ENGLAND for? Kinda like if you dont want to wear a helmet on a motorcycle why are you moving to Canada? Or if you want to wear a dagger to class why move to USA where daggers are illegal in schools? Or if you dont want to show your face while voting maby you should rethink your new home. A one year probabtion is a great idea, it not only lets people know that they must integrate but also shows a positive example for the rest of the western world to follow.

[adam c]

Originally posted by 3g4u
I think this is a great idea. The most important thing is preserving culture and heritage. If you dont want to learn english WTF are you moving to ENGLAND for? Kinda like if you dont want to wear a helmet on a motorcycle why are you moving to Canada? Or if you want to wear a dagger to class why move to USA where daggers are illegal in schools? Or if you dont want to show your face while voting maby you should rethink your new home. A one year probabtion is a great idea, it not only lets people know that they must integrate but also shows a positive example for the rest of the western world to follow.

+1..

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by 3g4u
If you dont want to learn english WTF are you moving to ENGLAND for?

Is that what they speak there? Could have fooled me? :rofl:

[3g4u]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Is that what they speak there? Could have fooled me? :rofl:

Ya no doubt hey. lol

[TKRIS]

I'm torn on the "speak english" issue.
I can understand the idea that, by learning the language, one would be more likely, and better equipped, to integrate into society.
That said, should intergration be neccessary?
Why can't I keep to myself if I so choose?

I don't think anyone that doesn't speak english* should be admitted to school.
I don't think anyone who doesn't speak english should be eligible for social assistance, welfare, etc.

I don't think we should force people to speak the native language, but I do think we should require it in some instances. Leave it up to them.
Want to go to school? Learn the language classes will be taught in.
Having a tough time finding a job? Learn the language. If you're still having problems, then we'll talk about helping you out.
etc etc etc.

Not something I've given a ton of thought to, so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why a gainfully employed, productive member of society should be forced to learn a new language unless it's causing undue problems for the rest of society.

[retro-steve]

Originally posted by TKRIS
I'm torn on the "speak english" issue.
I can understand the idea that, by learning the language, one would be more likely, and better equipped, to integrate into society.
That said, should intergration be neccessary?
Why can't I keep to myself if I so choose?

I don't think anyone that doesn't speak english* should be admitted to school.
I don't think anyone who doesn't speak english should be eligible for social assistance, welfare, etc.

I don't think we should force people to speak the native language, but I do think we should require it in some instances. Leave it up to them.
Want to go to school? Learn the language classes will be taught in.
Having a tough time finding a job? Learn the language. If you're still having problems, then we'll talk about helping you out.
etc etc etc.

Not something I've given a ton of thought to, so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why a gainfully employed, productive member of society should be forced to learn a new language unless it's causing undue problems for the rest of society.

Umm maybe because it's the language of the country? Believe it or not, one of the conditions to becoming a Canadian citizen is being proficient in one of the national languages (english or french).

what you basically said is "if you want to live in the country, you don't have to be able to communicate with anyone, but if you want to work or get an education in the country you need to know the language" so work or go to school eh? last time i checked you need a job and education to function in any civilized country.

[Trini]

:werd: if you can't speak the national language you will run into trouble living in the country and have a harder time living there.

[01RedDX]

.

[littledan]

hmmmm... this is gonna end up like that children of men movie right?? keep all the immigrants locked in camps. that movie was really creepy.

[iceburns288]

Originally posted by TKRIS
Why can't I keep to myself if I so choose?
You can choose to do that... it's called staying where you are. Shit, I'm embarassed to go to Spain for a week without speaking Spanish, I'd feel very awkward moving there without speaking it at all.

[syeve]

Originally posted by 3g4u
I think this is a great idea. The most important thing is preserving culture and heritage. If you dont want to learn english WTF are you moving to ENGLAND for? Kinda like if you dont want to wear a helmet on a motorcycle why are you moving to Canada? Or if you want to wear a dagger to class why move to USA where daggers are illegal in schools? Or if you dont want to show your face while voting maby you should rethink your new home. A one year probabtion is a great idea, it not only lets people know that they must integrate but also shows a positive example for the rest of the western world to follow.

+2

[TKRIS]

Meh.
I just don't like the idea of forcing people do do something if they can demonstrate the ability to get by without it. A Nicaraguan (for the sake of continuity) machinist, working for a spanish speaking employer, pays the same taxes as an english speaking machinist at the shop down the street.

However, I will conceed that there are arguments, possibly overruling arguments, for the preservation of culture to be made as well.

[Antonito]

In theory, people could go to England and become shut ins and never, ever have to interact with an English speaking person in a meaningful way and everyone would be happy. In theory

In reality, not knowing English creates a situation for severe abuse. Working in construction in Vancouver, I was surrounded by people who couldn't speak a lick of English. Guess who was being paid below minimum wage and treated like slaves by people of their own ethnicity? I know lots of people that go to the immigration offices and find the people from the country they are from, and go "hey, I'm one of you, come with me, I'll give you a job...." and then stick them in shacks, charge them half their pay for rent and make them work 80 hours a week because no one is able to tell them that that isn't the way things are done in Canada. This isn't some isolated case scenario, this is rampant.

The other thing is safety, again this is a construction example, but it applies to other things (traffic, health awareness, etc). I'd be screaming at people not to walk underneath overhead workers or not to use ladders with one good leg or whatever, and they'd give me the old blank stare. There are times when communication is needed to keep everyone safe, end of story.

Lastly, and this is admitedly a selfish reason, but in my opinion no less valid, is simply efficiency. Try to get something done in Richmond, BC, and see how much longer it takes you because no one understands you. That's no way for a country to function.

[ralliart_girl]

Originally posted by TKRIS
That said, should intergration be neccessary?
Why can't I keep to myself if I so choose?

While I do totally understand your of view point, it appears to me that you may be forgetting something. There will be a time when that person will need to speak to someone that may only speak english eg. maybe a police office, you can't even tell a cop if something is wrong.

I was a claims adjuster for a while, and i got claims where people couldn't even tell me what happened in the accident. How am I suppose to fight liablity on there behave? Who am I going to get to fix their car, and provide them with a rental?

[TKRIS]

^ Good points.
However, the safety issue is purely the fault of the employer. The same arguments could be said about hiring a deaf worker in a scenario where you need to listen to do your job safely. It's the employers responsibility to ensure his employees are capable of doing their jobs, and the neglect of that responsibility, as well as the exploitation of his employees, should be harshly punished.

I will, however, completely agree on the matter of simplicity. It's taken me 15 miinutes to buy a pack of smokes in Whitehorn before...

I'll take this time to retract my original arguments.
The negatives outlined above far outweigh the personal infringment issues I originally objected to.

[dino_martini]

I think this is a good idea. Essentially your making sure they have the basic skills to survive in a new country. Makes sense to me.

[max_boost]

This is a tough issue. My parents came to Canada knowing very little to zero English. All they were concerned about was working two jobs, putting food on the table, and sponsoring their family.

20 years later, my mom speaks enough to carry simple conversations and my dad's has improved a lot but he still misses out on all the sarcasms and has a very limited/simple vocab.

In theory, it makes sense. You adapt to the country, not the other way around.

[ralliart_girl]

Originally posted by TKRIS
It's taken me 15 miinutes to buy a pack of smokes in Whitehorn before...

LOL..dude, I was talking to a girl from rogers today, who clearly spoke english, and i was on the phone for like 30 mins and got nothing done...lets just say that when it comes to customer service...the lack of speaking the english language is not always the problem.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by TKRIS

Having a tough time finding a job? Learn the language.

Makes sense, but remember that they could live on welfare, paid by those who made the effort to learn, instead of becoming productive.

That being said, welfare-dependent chumps exist regardless of language proficiency.

I think the biggest issue behind the "speak the native tongue" debate is really the idea that a functioning society is based upon communication. Canadian laws are written in English, thus a proficiency in the language makes a person able to educate themselves on how the law governs their lives. (As we're all aware, "I didn't know that was a law" is rarely accepted as a reason for breaking one.) Most documentation for government agencies is in English, although I understand there are provisions for other languages. If your family member becomes injured, sick, or has a preexisting medical condition, you have to be able to communicate the problem to the EMS personnel, doctor, surgeon, etc. 99% of the time, they speak English and gesticulating wildly will only go so far towards describing the problem to them.

There's lots of examples out there, but my stance is that it's a person's responsibility to integrate themselves into society, not segregate themselves from it. Canada is a (theoretically) bilingual country, and if you don't understand one of those languages it's not society's responsibility to cater to your problem. I've come across hundreds of people that had difficulty communicating with me, and I will always do my level best to make things work, but sometimes it can't happen. I can't give technical explanations by pointing at things.

Now, all that being said, I have the utmost respect fot people that are trying their best to adapt and learn the language as they go. It's a monumental task. It's the ones that have no desire to improve that bother me.


Edit: Haha, TKRIS retracted his statement while I was typing that. :rofl:

[TKRIS]

I should add:
Judging by some of the people I've had the pleasure of working with/going to college with, the policy of requiring a proficiency of national language is loosely enforced at best, if not ignored all together.

Berserker:
I try not to make a habit of skating uphill.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by TKRIS
^ Good points.
However, the safety issue is purely the fault of the employer. The same arguments could be said about hiring a deaf worker in a scenario where you need to listen to do your job safely. It's the employers responsibility to ensure his employees are capable of doing their jobs, and the neglect of that responsibility, as well as the exploitation of his employees, should be harshly punished.


2 things:

1. Safety isn't always a static thing, there are always times when conditions change and the employer won't always be there to hold the guys hand. Sometimes my job would be specifically to stand there to say "you might not be able to see it, but there is a danger, please move/don't do that/whatever". That and signage. Just a few months ago I saw a guy working in an electrical closet that had been activated, and the only way to know that it had would be to read the sign. When the employer had been telling the guy (in their language) that it was ok to go and work around all the wires, he wasn't looking at that specific location, and had no reason to believe that they would be activated (the job was months away from being ready to be "energized"). Signage is relied upon heavily on jobsites to notify people of danger. And no, not every hazard can be explained pictorally

2. For someone who hates the government babying people, you sure put a lot of onus on employers :poosie: :D

edit: 3: Lots of employers fucking hate safety. Period. It takes away their profits. This is another one of those theory vs reality things. Sure, you can then go punish the employer after the fact, but you still have someone dead, just because we didn't want to infringe on someones "right" to remain ignorant

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Antonito


2. For someone who hates the government babying people, you sure put a lot of onus on employers :poosie: :D


Agreed on everything.
I just wanted to touch on this:
I'm against the government telling me what I can and can't do to myself. I'm NOT an anarchist.
I am NOT anti-government.
Most of my arguments come from a perspective of personal ownership and freedom.

Exploiting people and putting their lives at risk is the exact opposite of what I stand for, and, if I had my way, would be much more strictly enforced and punished.

Please don't ever confuse my political stance to be that of "laissez faire" indifference.

[adam c]

dont immigrants have to take tests after a few years to become citizens or else they get deported? (canada)
and isn't one of the requirements being able to speak english/french, sing the national anthem and name political figures?

how do some people become citizens if they can't even speak one of the languages?

[kertejud2]

Countries in the European Economic Area, 30 states, most of whom are EU members, will be exempt from the plans.


Basically it will cover the asian immigrants, but not the Eastern European immigrants (who are supposedly causing all sorts of trouble in the communities they've overtaken).

Kind of a useless change in the grand scheme of things, unfortunetely the EU and ECC mess up such legislation. The ones that continue to move there to take advantage of the social services provided will continue to move there without trouble, but at least it keeps those damn muslims out (please note, that is sarcasm).

Britain has a huge immigration problem and unfortunetely for them, they need to both limit the number of immigrants (EU troubles again) as proposed by the Conservatives and closely watch all social and economic aid available to new immigrants (why work when the government gives you everything you need for free even though you haven't paid a single dime in taxes).

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by TKRIS

Berserker:
I try not to make a habit of skating uphill.

Oh, I'm with you on that. Sorry if it looked like I was laughing at you, I was laughing because my post was so far after the fact it looked like I hadn't read half the thread. :nut:

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by 3g4u
I think this is a great idea. The most important thing is preserving culture and heritage. If you dont want to learn english WTF are you moving to ENGLAND for? Kinda like if you dont want to wear a helmet on a motorcycle why are you moving to Canada? Or if you want to wear a dagger to class why move to USA where daggers are illegal in schools? Or if you dont want to show your face while voting maby you should rethink your new home. A one year probabtion is a great idea, it not only lets people know that they must integrate but also shows a positive example for the rest of the western world to follow.

I approve of this post. :thumbsup:

[old&slow]

Unfortunately I see Canada being 5 or ten years behind Britain.
Our laws and social programs seem to be getting twisted to suit every group. Can't please everyone. We gotta step up and draw a line!

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by old&slow
Unfortunately I see Canada being 5 or ten years behind Britain.
Our laws and social programs seem to be getting twisted to suit every group. Can't please everyone. We gotta step up and draw a line!

Quebec tried to do it. But everybody called them intolerant Frenchies who should go back to France.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by Antonito

The other thing is safety, again this is a construction example, but it applies to other things (traffic, health awareness, etc). I'd be screaming at people not to walk underneath overhead workers or not to use ladders with one good leg or whatever, and they'd give me the old blank stare. There are times when communication is needed to keep everyone safe, end of story.


Ie. Russian fellow in the airport (Vancouver Airport, correct?) that didn't speak a lick of English and didn't understand police commands. Though to be fair, he was allegedly totally off his hinges.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by max_boost
In theory, it makes sense. You adapt to the country, not the other way around.

At least your parents and most Chinese IMO will try to adapt.

But look at all the Muslims, Africans and Arabs, they are still sticking to their ideals and want to change the country they immigrate to adapt their laws and lifestyle. In the end, you end up with a separate cell of people who don't integrate/interact with the rest of the community.

That's bullshit.

We should just send them back home if that's what they want.

[TKRIS]

^^ Ohh noes...

[forkdork]

Originally posted by Xtrema


At least your parents and most Chinese IMO will try to adapt.

But look at all the Muslims, Africans and Arabs, they are still sticking to their ideals and want to change the country they immigrate to adapt their laws and lifestyle. In the end, you end up with a separate cell of people who don't integrate/interact with the rest of the community.

That's bullshit.

We should just send them back home if that's what they want.

What about Chinatown? Last time I checked we didn't have a Polishtown, Zimbabweantown, or Irantown.

StatsCanada also shows that the Chinese have a lower percentage of their population who are able to converse in an official language (which would put them as the people who least adapt IMO):

Chinese:
In 2001, 85% could carry on a conversation in at least one official language, while 15% could not converse in either English or French.
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-621-XIE/89-621-XIE2006001.htm

South Asian:
93% can carry on a conversation in one or both official languages, while only 7% cannot speak either English or French
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-621-XIE/2007006/highlights.htm

Arab:
In 2001, 96% reported they could converse in one or both official languages, while only 4% could not speak either English or French.
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-621-XIE/89-621-XIE2007009.htm

African:
Indeed, in 2001, 98.5% could conduct a conversation in one or both official languages, while only 1.5% of the African population in Canada could not speak either English or French
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-621-XIE/89-621-XIE2007010.htm


Maybe the problem with the other groups who seem to be so obsessed with changing the country (IE from when they fought for the right to vote up until they fought to have equal rights) is that they can speak the language. Perhaps it is less of a cultural problem but more related to the fact that a higher percentage of the Chinese population cannot converse in an official language to bring light to their views.

The same applies for integration into the community. How do you integrate if you cannot communicate?

[forkdork]

Back to the UK. It is great that this has been implemented, however the fact that EU Migrants are not included within this makes it practically useless.

Everytime you try to get anything done in any major urban centre you will still have to deal with the Polish who couldn't be bothered to speak or learn English (they are exempt!). And when you consider the demographics of the immigrants to the UK (IE primarily from EU states now) I really doubt it will make much of a diference.

[randedge]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Quebec tried to do it. But everybody called them intolerant Frenchies who should go back to France.

A lot of people on the "agree with UK" part bring up valid points.

It's just that, the same side is populated by questionable characters who take up prejudiced positions first before informing themselves of the facts.

Take the Helmetless Sikh motorcylist thread for instance.
Many people commented on "Mid East", one guy even mentioned "Mosque and State". The amount of ignorance is staggering to the point that, although I agree with some points, I'm afraid of being identified alongside some of those morons.






Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to comment from the perspective of an immigrant. I am a visible minority. My family moved here back in 1997 - before I was even close to being 18. We were all naturalized as citizens three years after that, 2000.


Here's something that sometimes surprises some born, raised, and bred white Canadians: No one would probably take a stronger stance for toughening our immigration laws more than my parents. They also hate refugees, I'm almost ashamed to admit.

The thing is this: Ten years ago, before this economic boom, my parents had to jump through hoops just to pass the immigration screening process. There is a list and there is a point system where you are ranked against to see if you pass or fail.

As far as I remember, special points are awarded for:

-level of educational attainment. DO they possess good intellect worthy of being Canadian? My Dad and Mom have a Masters and a Bachelor's degree respectively. High points for that.

-liquid assets. Do they have enough money to bring in to the country to be able to survive for six months without being employed (just in case employment was hard to come by). They had to get some kind of auditing. For those who didn't have enough money, they were instructed to first liquidate all their assets. For us we didn't have to sell our house back home - we only did so after a few years when we realized there was no coming back.

-There was also a non refundable fee we had to pay to the Canadian Consulate back in the motherland just so we could go through this whole process, by the way. I forgot the fee, but i do remember that it was enough to make my parents flinch since it was non-refundable. Should they have changed their mind, it was money gone forever.

-Communications skills. I think this kinda fell into the level of educational attainment. I'm not sure. There was an interview, that much I remember.

-Relatives already here. Just in case things really go bad in that there are no jobs and we lose everything, would there be someone who could take us in for at least a few days? At the very least, is there someone from here that we already know who could somehow be there to help and instruct us in the whole process of being Canadian?

-Criminal record check and a psychological check. No brainer - Canada doesn't want to import criminals or complete nutjobs.

-Dependents: How many dependents are they bringing, and are any of them 'permanent' dependents? (Minus points for this) As in, is there anyone going to be completely dependent on constant support and care. ie. special needs children.

-Previous experience travelling abroad. High Points given to my Dad who's been to the Mid East and All over Asia.


-A Medical exam. When I joke that we "had to bend over and spread ass cheeks" just to get to Canada, I'm not lying.
That was part of the medical to screen for STD's and other shit. Blood samples, stool samples, urine samples were also taken...
Basically, we were screened for infectious diseases, terminal diseases, and other crap that could potentially tie up the health care system.




I'm sure I am forgetting many things, but it was an arduous process that we had to take just to GET to live in Canada. My parents especially with the personal financial questions and interview felt like they had to "prove" they were worthy. This is why I do not criticize them for being vocal against Canada taking in refugees and the relaxation of immigration laws.

Being a Canadian citizen was easier; you just put in your time and take a test.





Now, since we went through all that, I don't blame my parents when they sometimes feel a bit uneasy, with a hint of bitterness, when they encounter other newcomers who they think as 'less than qualified'.

It turns out, the immigration process isn't set in stone and it changes as per the needs of Canada. As I have mentioned, when we moved here during the late 90's, the economy wasn't as hot, so the process they went through was very THOROUGH AND at times even a INSULTING. At its core it was asking, "are you good enough for us?"




Fast Forward to today and the need for immigration is higher and as such, the limits have been laxed. Apparently Canada needs people to staff its workforce and power its economy.


But you know what? I personally am not bitter about 'unqualified' people coming to Canada. They may have little potential of assimilation and they went through less just to get here, but I do not lay blame to them. I feel that I'd be a jerk if I did.

1.

When I think really really hard about it, who's fault is it? Who's fault is it that we seem to need such a high amount of bodies just to staff our workforce that we're left scraping the barrel of potential migrants?


You know who? We. Us.

We should blame no one else but ourselves. We do nothing but consume and we do nothing but fucking create, develop, and ask for more more more.

When we have to line up at Tim Horton's and the drive through lineup is stacked 20 cars (each of them with only one passgenger) we get ticked off because the service isn't good. We say. "The service is too slow" "Why the fuck are they so understaffed?", we complain.

And then, when someone who has English as a second language greets us on the intercom, we still complain!? "Oh, can't they put an english speaking person there?" we ask.

Multiply this through every sector in the service and manufacturing business and you get the idea.


We have nothing else to blame but our relentless pursuit of development and economic growth. As well, add to that our uncompromising NEED to be attended to and pampered by the service sector. If we all just reduce our consumption by a bit, we might not have this staffing problem.

But no, that isn't an alternative is it?


2.

The second reason why I believe I don't deserve to have any ill will against anyone who got here with less than passing marks on the same "Points System" they used for us, is this:

With all the screening that the Canadian consulate back in the motherland put us through, we were somewhat half expecting some sort of utopia populated with nothing but healthy, wealthy, industrious, and intellectual people.

Boy, were we fucking wrong. Not to mention a bit disappointed.

Level of educational attainment? They dared to ask my folks how high their level of education is when a lot of the people born here, already in the workforce are hardly highschool graduates? Like, fuck, with that question, you'd expect everyone to be educated and that the colleges, universities, and technical schools here to be FULLY subsidized for those who are qualified and willing. Sweden's is like that, as far as I know.

Criminal Record Check? You'd think that when you get asked this, they'd have a zero tolerance policy against crime and a tough stance against criminals. This obviously isn't the case.

Physical Exam? Being asked if I carried infectious diseases or whether I could potentially tie up the health care system was an alright question which I felt was justified at the time. But, like the other things I've already cited, we got here and saw for ourselves that no, not all Canadian-born Canadians are healthy. A lot of people, due to their lifestyle, dietary habits, and indiscretions, and possibly just inferior and weak genes suceptible to diseases are tieing up the health care system.

Travel Experience? Potential ability to assimilate? Hah! A lot of Canadian Born Canadians haven't even been outside this continent and they dare ask my Dad if he's sampled many cultures outside of our motherland.

This is what I mean by somewhat insulting. I mean, it wasn't insulting when we were undergoing through the tests. It seemed all nice and fair - no different had it been for a job. You go through the process to see if you're qualified, and you expect everyone who's already IN the job to have the same level of qualifications. But then for us, we got in, and realized that some already have full privileges of getting to stay in Canada without working for it...

Ok, so maybe inheritance is inheritance, and that being born someplace you are entitled certain things.


Still, my point stands: if I feel the need to be prejudiced against any new migrant coming in whom I feel was "less than qualified" to reside in Canada, it just wouldn't be fair.

I have a LOT more beef against those who've put in nothing, yet are Canadian by default.




Hey, here's an idea. We definitely SHOULD have a Canadian test. It should have an Audit, a Physical exam, Criminal background check, knowledge test (both canadian and international) among others....

Anyone who fails will be labeled as Un-Canadian and will be punted out. Those who have no country they can identify with outside of Canada will be put on a barge, which will then be towed to open ocean, and then sunk in the most spectacular and explosive fashion. Basically, it follows the same philosophy suggested in this post - earn your place in Canada. If you fail, you're out. The only difference is that I believe it should be all-encompassing. And that instead of being a one time affair, it should be something that you'd have to do once during adolescence, again during adulthood, and one last time before you hit senility. Being born here counts for nothing.

[anhsicun]

Originally posted by adam c
dont immigrants have to take tests after a few years to become citizens or else they get deported? (canada)
and isn't one of the requirements being able to speak english/french, sing the national anthem and name political figures?

how do some people become citizens if they can't even speak one of the languages?

as long u answer all the question correctly in english or french ur fine u don't have to sing the national anthem but u most know who are prime minister is. also u don't get deported if u don't want to become a citizen, u can always be a canadian permadent resident its like a green card in teh U.S.A but if u commint a crime they can deport if ur not citizen.

[randedge]

Funny anecdotal story told around Asian circles.

I don't know if it's true, but hey it could happen.


A Very OLD and small diminutive asian man walks into a post office and asks a question in some other language.

The English speaking attendant says he'd have to speak English because that's all he understands.

The Asian man then says more and talks more and gets more exasperated as no communication happens, despite his hand gestures. To the attendant, it seemed as though the asian man was doing nothing but point his finger and stuff.
Finally, after five minutes of this, the asian man leaves, very disappointed.

The English Speaking attendant then mutters to no one in particular but himself. Still,the small lineup that has formed behind the man heard him say, "Geez, if you're going to be in Canada, you should speak our language".


The next person in line then says, "I think he was actually speaking in French. At least it sounded like it to me. What's for sure is that he was pointing at the French side of your, 'Please fall in line sign ' "

Turns out the man was Vietnamese and because he lived through the latter parts of the French colonial period in Vietnam, could speak French very well.

[randedge]

^^^^

I have heard variations of this story adapted for other cultures like... Black Africans who were from French African Colonies, French Moroccans etc....

I'm sure somewhere, someplace, this is a common occurrence in the more Rednecky western provinces.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by randedge

With all the screening that the Canadian consulate back in the motherland put us through, we were somewhat half expecting some sort of utopia populated with nothing but healthy, wealthy, industrious, and intellectual people.

Boy, were we fucking wrong. Not to mention a bit disappointed.

So basically you're pissed off because Canada tries to increase the quality of it's population with it's voluntary immigration rather than decrease it? Fascinating.

[randedge]

I fail at recognizing insinuations. Sorry. You'd have to elaborate and expand on you accusations.



Also, I think I wrote enough for people not to mis read or mis interpret anything I was trying to say.

Although i do feel it is a little long and for that I apologize.

Cliff notes:
-We, my family, went through a lot just to get here.

-Apparently, not everyone goes through that same level of screening nowadays due to the boom and the 'Hot' economy; Canada needs people that badly, I am told.

-In Short, the hot economy is to blame for the drastic need for manpower is to blame for the laxing of immigration standards.


-As such, I don't believe anyone who got here despite being a "less than ideal type of migrant" (whatever that is) deserves my scorn. It's not their fault they got in - this IS a great country, it's flattering to think that I live someplace other people want to be in on as well. No, it's the fault of whoever let them in...

-So why did they have to be let in? Who's fault is it that we have such a hot economy anyway? can't we have a slightly cooler one and still survive? No, apparently that thought is unbearable to us. We want our fastfood to remain fast, our industries to keep toiling and producing and everything else to expand grow and sprawl. It's our fault as consumers.



-Part II seems like I'm bragging. Maybe I am.
But it's more like this: GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES.
Again, it's a matter of me prioritizing who to scorn. If I am to feel prejudice against any newcomer who has less the qualities of the ideal Canadian, I feel I must first scorn those who were already born here, and had every access to every social advantages of being a permanent resident and citizen right from the get go, yet still fail at life.

No, I do not criticize policies that encourage us to let in those who are better qualified. In fact, I would support such a move. All I'm saying is that this nation is as capable of producing fuck ups, screwups, assholes, losers, and lazies, and nutjobs just like any other. Let's have a cap in immigration and tougher and tougher standards if we must. Just never ever forget the fact that within our borders are people already born here yet still fail at being Canadian.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by randedge


-Part II seems like I'm bragging. Maybe I am.
But it's more like this: GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES.
Again, it's a matter of me prioritizing who to scorn. If I am to feel prejudice against any newcomer who has less the qualities of the ideal Canadian, I feel I must first scorn those who were already born here, and had every access to every social advantages of being a permanent resident and citizen right from the get go, yet still fail at life.

No, I do not criticize policies that encourage us to let in those who are better qualified. In fact, I would support such a move. All I'm saying is that this nation is as capable of producing fuck ups, screwups, assholes, losers, and lazies, and nutjobs just like any other. Let's have a cap in immigration and tougher and tougher standards if we must. Just never ever forget the fact that within our borders are people already born here yet still fail at being Canadian.

Our high horses? WTF? Yes, we are quite aware that there are retards here in Canada, that's how we know who to screen for in the immigration process, because we say "don't let the Chinese equivalent of Cletus in". Do you think we like the stupid people that we are forced to put up with because they were born here? No. Where you got that idea, I have no idea. But it's doubly frustrating when not only is someone dumb, but we actually had the chance not to have to deal with said person. That's why people are more vocal about immigrants. We long ago realized that we have to put up with Canadian born dumbasses and assholes, so we just accept it and move on. With immigrants, the number that are stupid can actually be affected by policy changes

[randedge]

Originally posted by Antonito


Our high horses? WTF? Yes, we are quite aware that there are retards here in Canada, that's how we know who to screen for in the immigration process, because we say "don't let the Chinese equivalent of Cletus in". Do you think we like the stupid people that we are forced to put up with because they were born here? No. Where you got that idea, I have no idea. But it's doubly frustrating when not only is someone dumb, but we actually had the chance not to have to deal with said person. That's why people are more vocal about immigrants. We long ago realized that we have to put up with Canadian born dumbasses and assholes, so we just accept it and move on. With immigrants, the number that are stupid can actually be affected by policy changes



Ok, I guess that was tactless in my part. I re-read only this post again and I must say people were more civil in this one.

It's just that, in my defense, I was reading the Helmetless Sikh Motorcyclist in another Tab as well. Also, there are the numerous other posts on beyond dealing about immigration and related topics regarding that subject.
And everytime this is brought up, there are a consistent amount of people who make blanket statements about all migrants, all members of whatever minority group was being discussed, and then as a solution make suggestions that sounds like something Nazi Germany would have done (short of extermination)

Make arguments all you can, so long as your reasons are pragmatic and practical. This post is actually clean, I now realize. I guess I should have paid more attention to that.

That "Get off your high horses" statement was a culmination of all my reactions to every bigoted poster on beyond I guess. If it sounded like I'm knocking their egoes down a notch, I probably was.

[Antonito]

^^It's an internet car forum, what do you expect?

[randedge]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Let's not forget what a country like England is founded on - imperialism. They took no consideration of other cultures, values or languages when they colonized and plundered the rest of the world for its resources and now that they've opened up the borders, they realize others are trying to do the same! D'oh!


This is one of the best posts ever regarding this subject - and any other subject relating to the migration of people from developing countries to industrialized ones like ours.

To extend that idea:
If you feel strongly against other new cultures - that are different from those of the Canadian pioneers - gaining a foothold and possibly moving up to majority status in Canada (and perhaps the western world in General), then I can only hope that you feel just as strongly about the reverse.

Consider: McDonalds and other fastfood franchises are everywhere. Nike is all over the globe. Coca Cola is widespread. Starbucks is brewing all over. And the movies, Music, and television shows of Hollywood are exported to a global audience. Colonial Imperialism may have died, but only to make way for corporate imperialism. Not only are they there spreading western ideals, they are also there killing cottage industry and to some extent, indigenous culture and ideals.

But no, sadly very few people recognize that this is happening. And if they do, they call it as a fair byproduct of globalization. "It's their fault they can't compete and it isn't our problem that our products and production techniques are superior", they might say.

[Toms-SC]

Read the article and it makes sense. :dunno: Basically it is setting up the 'would be Canadian' to succeed. I think the time period of one year is kind of bunk but everything else is ok.

[WiltonKillz]

ITS ABOUT FU*KING TIME !

[PremiumRSX]

i think i agree with that article

[3g4u]

Originally posted by randedge



Consider: McDonalds and other fastfood franchises are everywhere. Nike is all over the globe. Coca Cola is widespread. Starbucks is brewing all over. And the movies, Music, and television shows of Hollywood are exported to a global audience. Colonial Imperialism may have died, but only to make way for corporate imperialism. Not only are they there spreading western ideals, they are also there killing cottage industry and to some extent, indigenous culture and ideals.

But no, sadly very few people recognize that this is happening. And if they do, they call it as a fair byproduct of globalization. "It's their fault they can't compete and it isn't our problem that our products and production techniques are superior", they might say.

Cocacolonization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocacolonization)