Global warming over? Global cooling now?

[rage2]

I haven't kept up with the latest global warming news, because honestly, it's impossible to argue with billions of sheep :rofl:. But an interesting article I read at lunch today mentioned the founder of the weather channel wanting to sue Al Gore for global warming/carbon credits because global warming is a hoax, and that we're forced to pay all these carbon taxes, which makes it fraud.

So I dug a little deeper, and found some info about global temperatures in the last 2 years that really haven't made much mainstream media... probably because it'll make them all look stupid.

Apparently, 2006 global average temperatures was lower than the last 5 years:

http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/12/2006-probably-coldest-year-in-last.html

OK, so maybe it was an anomaly, and nobody picked it up. But then we look at 2007 now that it's over, and it turns out that it was the coldest year this century (ok so it's been 7 years haha):

http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/01/2007-warmest-year-on-record-coldest-in.html

The above article is pretty funny, lists out the mainstream media (umm, pretty much all of 'em) predicting 2007 to be the warmest year on record in Jan '07.

Here's a graph of temperatures in the last 20 years, broken down by month:

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/7390_large_hadcrut.jpg

Image is from this article (http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm), which has a lot of interesting tidbits.


Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases.
Something I've always said... solar activity's role in climate change.

BTW - 2007 was a brutally cold year... tons of deaths relating to cold weather. China pretty much was completely frozen. We've got record amounts of sea ice, below average # of hurricanes and typhoons... and oh ya... we got snow in Baghdad too :D.

DISCUSS!

[blueripper6]

I hate when there is like 3 nice weeks in winter, and people say OMFGGZZZ GLOBALZ WARMNIG!!11.. Wrong.. this is calgary. Global warming may exist.. but its probably just a facist scare tactic(like so many others) Keep the people afraid, easier to control. Thanks.. But 1 more thing
What happened to rage1?

[Redlyne_mr2]

global warming or no global warming Im still environmentally conscious, the brown cloud over the city isnt getting smaller.

[rage2]

Controlling pollution is one thing... Kyoto, carbon credits, and other forms of taking our money because of this pending global warming catastrophe could potentially be fraud.

rage1 never existed. Search and see where the name came from.

[01RedDX]

.

[kertejud2]

*Puts fingers in ears*

LALALALALALA!!! I'm not listening!



But on a serious note, I've always been skeptical of the global warming debate, my beef has always been on the effect of pollution and resource waste having negative effects on us as a species and planet, but since that is somewhat unrelated, I'll put my thoughts in another thread (should it come up).


Anyways, I don't really like the graph because it only goes back 20 years and its pretty good at hiding the average temperature change trends. But its such an imprecise science, its tough to make accurate conclusions one way or another (which is why we have the bitchfests).

The sun is of course accepted as the only force powerful enough to have large effects on the Earth's climate and the debate has always come as "we're making it worse" rather than being the cause, but its always been a pretty open issue. This is why there isn't a 'Theory of Global Warming Due to Human Intervention'


I'll be very interested in this as the research in it progresses.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
One isolated year of cooler avg temperatures a hardly a trend. Besides, an area of sea ice the size of Great Britain disappeared last year.

But at the same time other Antarctic ice is growing. The problem is of course using one isolated year as a trend, and a 20 year window to try and represent it better. El Nina has been breaking through and if its getting more intense, along with El Nino, then one can easily interpret that as definite signs of climate change.

THe main problem in the global warming debate is of course 'its cold where I am therefore global warming doesn't exist. And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe many parts of Australia are experiencing their warmest summer ever (or in a very long time).

[adam c]

correct me if im wrong, but i remember summers and winters being warmer when i was younger compared to now...

i remember a lot less snow back then compared to now and temps in the summer would always be higher 20's-30's...

i can only remember a couple days last year where we broke the 30C barrier

[rage2]

Originally posted by adam c
correct me if im wrong, but i remember summers and winters being warmer when i was younger compared to now...

i remember a lot less snow back then compared to now and temps in the summer would always be higher 20's-30's...

i can only remember a couple days last year where we broke the 30C barrier
We're talking about global warming, not Calgary warming :rofl:.


Originally posted by kertejud2
THe main problem in the global warming debate is of course 'its cold where I am therefore global warming doesn't exist.
Ya, that's why I've posted average temperatures from sensors around the world.

[Kloubek]

I'd like to see if we'd still be having this conversation in 10 years. One, two, maybe even three years of cooler weather is just a coincidence, I'm pretty sure. If you look at before and after pictures of glaciers, it's pretty obvious they are disappearing.

[01RedDX]

.

[adam c]

Originally posted by rage2

We're talking about global warming, not Calgary warming :rofl:.



:thumbsdow i live in calgary not the world :poosie:

[Antonito]

Originally posted by blueripper6
I hate when there is like 3 nice weeks in winter, and people say OMFGGZZZ GLOBALZ WARMNIG!!11.. Wrong.. this is calgary. Global warming may exist.. but its probably just a facist scare tactic(like so many others) Keep the people afraid, easier to control. Thanks.. But 1 more thing
What happened to rage1?

ok as someone who is new to Calgary, this is something I'd like clarification. Some people swear it's the same as always, but a lot of people swear that this is way better. Obviously it gets bloody cold here sometimes, but this year and last year (the 2 I've been here) I was relieved to see that we never got 3 feet of snow, which is something that used to be a common thing. That and the Chinooks that last for a week at a time, which apparently only used to last for a day.

Yay or nay?

[01RedDX]

.

[blownz]

My father-in-law has been working in Iran and Turkmanistan (sp?) this past year and they had snow on one of the sites he was at in January and that was pure desert. Granted they also had 9 days straight with temps over 50 degrees in February. :eek:

On the polution side, he says these countries don't give a rats ass about it. The new gas plants he is consulting on are very inefficient but they don't care because they only focus on low cost. Cheap parts and cheap 'slave' labour. He said they have break downs causing major injuries including death and they don't care because the governments think their people are expendable.

None of this really make a difference to anyone here, but I think it is interesting nonetheless.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I'd like to see if we'd still be having this conversation in 10 years. One, two, maybe even three years of cooler weather is just a coincidence, I'm pretty sure. If you look at before and after pictures of glaciers, it's pretty obvious they are disappearing.
So when do you determine it's a coincidence and not a trend? If you wanna put that way, we can say the last 100 years of warming was a coincidence too. Don't forget that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. 100 years isn't even a blip, it's more insignificant than a rounding error.

If you look at earth's history of warming and cooling, these periods span millions of years, the worst ice age spanning a billion years.

[treg50]

Toronto's 36 cms of snow away from breaking it's snowfall record. 6 weeks to go PLUS a decent snowstorm this weekend.

However, the previous 4 or 5 winters have been pretty green and mild and not white and cold. We get one colder than average winter, people think global warming is not real? 1 out of 5 is not good.

If anything it's good to nip global warming in the bud... then again it's already past the bud. It's already bad, they say it'll take 20 years at least with major pollution reduction to get the ozone and air quality back to safe levels. That means we have to make drastic change. Not gradual or procrastinating change. Why wait until the world is 95% critical?

LOL, I can't believe ppl want to argue against cutting back on pollution and cleaning up the air.
:banghead: :nut:

[rage2]

Originally posted by treg50
Toronto's 36 cms of snow away from breaking it's snowfall record. 6 weeks to go PLUS a decent snowstorm this weekend.

However, the previous 4 or 5 winters have been pretty green and mild and not white and cold. We get one colder than average winter, people think global warming is not real? 1 out of 5 is not good.

If anything it's good to nip global warming in the bud... then again it's already past the bud. It's already bad, they say it'll take 20 years at least with major pollution reduction to get the ozone and air quality back to safe levels. That means we have to make drastic change. Not gradual or procrastinating change. Why wait until the world is 95% critical?

LOL, I can't believe ppl want to argue against cutting back on pollution and cleaning up the air.
:banghead: :nut:
Again, GLOBAL WARMING, not TORONTO WARMING :rofl:. And it's been the last 2 years that there is a cooling trend.

Nobody's arguing against cutting back pollution. Talking about carbon tax, kyoto, shit that costs stupid amounts of money (and in kyoto's case, purely wealth redistribution with no regards to environment).

[Toms-SC]

Paging Toma

[bspot]

Originally posted by rage2
global temperatures in the last 2 years



Originally posted by blueripper6
I hate when there is like 3 nice weeks in winter, and people say OMFGGZZZ GLOBALZ WARMNIG!!11.. Wrong.. this is calgary. Global warming may exist.. but its probably just a facist scare tactic

Wow. The guy agrees with the person using 2 years as their reference, but hates the people that use 3 weeks.

Both are the same degree of lame. 2 years means nothing in this debate.

[adam c]

calgary warming ftw!

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Paging Toma


Paging GTS Jeff, please pick up the green courtesy phone.



Also, global warming scare tactics are crap, especially when they are used for nothing but sucking money out of the populace.

[mark4091]

serial?

[badatusrnames]

People are confusing weather with climate.

The factors that control climate are infinitely more complex than is presented in mainstream media.

What a lot of people don't realize is that solar output has a greater effect on climate than levels of "greenhouse gases" ever will. As mentioned, the history of climate on this planet is tied to solar output which varies on both small and large scales. We've experienced large-scale ice ages, so called mini ice ages and mini periods of heating and long periods of heating - all tied to the sun's output.

At the end of the 70's a great deal of scientists (Suzuki included, I believe) were all screaming about the Earth entering an ice age within a few decades.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
One isolated year of cooler avg temperatures a hardly a trend. Besides, an area of sea ice the size of Great Britain disappeared last year.

And re-froze to record levels this winter...

[jay42w8]

I believe in CLIMATE CHANGE and it is happening right now....we will basically see more and more and more FUCKED up weather....as for whether this is all caused by humans? I don't debate that as I think its irrelevant...shit is happening right now and there's nothing we can do to change it I don't think.

[Hash_man]

Yup... things are messed... my sister called me on monday telling me it was snowing in Dallas :eek: hahahah. I had a good laugh. Supposed to snow there again today or tommorow.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by treg50
LOL, I can't believe ppl want to argue against cutting back on pollution and cleaning up the air.
:banghead: :nut:

As long as it does hit my pocket book, I'm all for it.

[max_boost]

hahaha I don't know what to believe in anymore.:dunno::nut:

I watched Al Gore Inconvenient Truth documentary and was :eek: about things.

[01RedDX]

.

[JAYMEZ]

Hrmmm I dunno what to think lol...
When i was living in australia last year they had the worse draught in history , and broke tons of heat records... I guess it depends where ya are!

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by treg50

LOL, I can't believe ppl want to argue against cutting back on pollution and cleaning up the air.
:banghead: :nut:

I have no problem cutting back on pollution and increasing air quality. People seemed to get pollutants and green house gases mixed up. Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.

Air quality has actually increased in Calgary over the last decade due to low emission (cleaning burning) vehicles.

Believe it or not, a brand new Escalade emits less pollutants than a 20 year old civic that gets 40mpg. More carbon dioxide - yes. But more pollutants - no.

Examples of pollutants would be ozone, particulates and sulfur and nitrogen oxides, these compounds lower air quality, form smog and are harmful to breathe. Carbon dioxide on the other hand, does not lower air quality, it's negative effects are as a greenhouse gas. Inhaling carbon dioxide released by human activity is not harmful and regardless, it is a trace gas in the atmosphere and present in relatively minute amounts.

[DonJuan]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Paging Toma

LOL! :D

Waiting with references in hand!

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
Paging GTS Jeff, please pick up the green courtesy phone. Me arguing science here is as ridiculous as Tkris arguing libertarianism here on Beyond. Why bother when 99% of the people don't have the intellectual training to understand what you're saying? Why bother when those same people have already made up their uneducated minds?

This thread is a prime example. Rage2 thinks he's "arguing" with his "research" but as bspot pointed out, buddy thinks two years represents a meaningful trend! Rage2 - such small scales are called WEATHER, not CLIMATE. And his reference? A fuckin BLOG?! From Luboš Motl, a so-proclaimed "conservative physicist" no less? It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that politics should have just as much influence on science as religion does. I'd like to see rage2 defend a thesis with blog links. :rofl:

Leave a message at the beep.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Carbon dioxide levels are rising faster than at any time in Earth's history, except after rare events like impacts from asteroids. Natural influences cannot explain the increase in global near-surface temperatures. These are the real facts. Everything else is pseudo-science.

And you know these are real facts how? Have you pored over all of the data and examined evidence yourself? Or are you just parroting what we've all been told to think and say on the topic?

Correlation doesn't always imply causality.

Climate patterns and climate modeling is an infinitely complex science with an infinite number variables and a complex set of interactions between those variables. I just think that it's a shame that the argument surrounding climate change has been reduced and simplified to a single issue - when in reality, the subject is so much more complex.

There are more powerful factors that determine climate, but you don't hear people taking about the effect solar activity, albedo or other green house gases such as water vapor or methane for example.

I'm not naive enough to dismiss the thought of climate change out of hand, I just think we need to examine it from a more thorough and reasoned perspective and not just all jump on emotional bandwagons. Why do you think that Gore uses alarmist and emotional appeals during An Inconvenient Truth to draw people in? Because it would be difficult to sell his arguments to the general public if he told it in reasoned, logical and scientific terms.

Again, I'll refer to the alarmist proclamations during that 70's that the Earth was spiraling towards rapid global glaciation as the fallacy of rushing to conclusions. Thank god it wasn't just decided that on the basis of the "evidence" for global cooling, the international community embarked on some kind of devastating and misguided enterprise designed to make sure we all weren't buried underneath glaciers by 1992.

[djayz]

The sun is dying...period. We need a nuke to revive it.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that politics should have just as much influence on science as religion does.

Religion isn't science? Get outta town!

KdocQHsPCNM

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by badatusrnames
Why do you think that Gore uses alarmist and emotional appeals during An Inconvenient Truth to draw people in? Because it would be difficult to sell his arguments to the general public if he told it in reasoned, logical and scientific terms. :werd: This thread is proof that the general public cannot buy into logic, reason, and science. Although Gore's documentary was all alarmist bullshit, if I were trying to convince the uneducated, I would use the same approach too.

[Euro///Tuned]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat



Paging GTS Jeff, please pick up the green courtesy phone.



Also, global warming scare tactics are crap, especially when they are used for nothing but sucking money out of the populace.

Sucking money out of the populace? How so. Even if you are referring to buying energy efficient light bulbs and such its still an outlandish statement considering that all the "propaganda" is centered on cutting back and conserving. I don't fully agree with global warming by any means but your comment made me laugh. HA HA. :nut:

[vadeit]

Originally posted by mark4091
serial?

hahaha



"But guys, I am super serial"

[01RedDX]

.

[Ariakas]

Originally posted by rage2

BTW - 2007 was a brutally cold year... tons of deaths relating to cold weather. China pretty much was completely frozen. We've got record amounts of sea ice, below average # of hurricanes and typhoons... and oh ya... we got snow in Baghdad too :D.

DISCUSS! [/B]

I live in Hong Kong now and this winter was freakin cold... the news said it was the coldest winter in 40 years. Other media mentioned the changes in environment was causing hotter summer and colder winter. I didn't think I would break out my big winter coats here but man.. I use it more here than I was in Calgary.

[DayGlow]

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm

[Toms-SC]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x149/Surgardaddy4life/ManBearPig.jpg

[spikerS]

while i don't dismiss global warming out of hand, i also remember in the 80s when they were preaching about coming into another ice age.

now, i am not any kind of a scientist, nor do i read scientific journals, but from what I have read, I have formed my opinion on the matter.

I don't belive that the human race can cause global warming, are we contributing to it, absolutely, but are we contributing to it in such a way that if we stopped polluting, could we have any meaningful effect? i don't think so.

I got the jist of the solar flare theory, and find it beliveable.

A few other theories i have read about and find interesting are:

(my favorite) - with the constant shifting of the earth's tectonic plates, it changes the earth's balance. Most people belive that the earth is perfectly round, when in actual fact, the earth is shaped like an egg, with the polar regions at the top and bottom. With the plates shifting, it is changing the distribution of the earth's weight, thus putting the earth out of it's natural balance, as we know it. To illustrate this, go and grab a spinning top. when you spin it, the areas with the most mass are pulled to the outside of the radius, while the lightest portion goes to the top or bottom as this is the nature of centrifical force. Just like an egg, the fattest portion of it would become the equator. now if this equator where to shift, the polar regions would change. From what i have read and can recall, the polar regions "wobble" by as much as 4KM and magnetic north has apparently moved by 200m. i will try to find a referance link for you guys.

the other one has to do with the iron content in the earth's core and rotation and such, i don't know much about this theory, maybe someone else can shed some light on it.



*edit* found some links:

polar shift (http://www.livescience.com/environment/ap_051209_pole_shift.html)

another one for shifting poles (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/20/north.pole/)

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by spikers
now, i am not any kind of a scientist, nor do i read scientific journals, but from what I have read, I have formed my opinion on the matter. At least you KNOW your opinion is worthless, unlike some people. :rofl:

[spikerS]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
At least you KNOW your opinion is worthless, unlike some people. :rofl:

awww jeff, why you gotta be like that huh? that hurt my feelings.

but yeah, it is my opinion, and i do realize for the most part it is worthless, but i still say this globabl warming that humans are causing is bunk.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Carbon dioxide levels are rising faster than at any time in Earth's history, except after rare events like impacts from asteroids. Natural influences cannot explain the increase in global near-surface temperatures. These are the real facts. Everything else is pseudo-science.

Big deal. Humans contribute only 2% of total worldwide CO2 emissions. Oceans only release over 300 gigatons of CO2 a year while humans release a paltry 26 gigatons. Find me one shred of evidence that global warming is due to human caused CO2.

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by BananaFob


Big deal. Humans contribute only 2% of total worldwide CO2 emissions. Oceans only release over 300 gigatons of CO2 a year while humans release a paltry 26 gigatons. Find me one shred of evidence that global warming is due to human caused CO2.

Yes, but that 2% is a huge motherfucking margin when you're talking about a delicate system like CO2.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by arian_ma


Yes, but that 2% is a huge motherfucking margin when you're talking about a delicate system like CO2.

Delicate system my ass. Any year with large volcanic activity will more than skew the total amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, not to mention other natural causes of CO2 due to wildfires etc. Like others have said in this thread, output from solar activity>>>>>CO2 in terms of effects on global climate.

[Mixalot27]

Hopefully Global Warming is coming to an end, the Pirates are really getting out of hand:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2664/funnypiratesgraphav7.jpg

[asuth077]

Originally posted by Mixalot27
Hopefully Global Warming is coming to an end, the Pirates are really getting out of hand:


Out of hand as in substantially being reduced?
Chart reading 101 FTW.

[SilverRex]

yeah was in hk few weeks ago too and it was dam cold. then again I read somewhere that hk has one of the fastest rising temperature in the city. With that many people living in one spot, who couldnt believe it?

As far as the end of the world due to climate's concern, as a church goer, I dont think this earth will be retiring anytime soon as Jesus suppose to come back and rule the earth for at least a thousand years.

I'm more interested in the effects and how the rising sea levels will one day wipe out islands and coast like vancouver and Japan, now that would be breathtaking.

[heavyD]

Global warming is such a waste of time and resources. It's typical egotism of mankind to think that we determine or play a part in global weather trends. I wish the tree huggers would put their efforts into stuff we actually can control like preserving endangered species.

[rage2]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
This thread is a prime example. Rage2 thinks he's "arguing" with his "research" but as bspot pointed out, buddy thinks two years represents a meaningful trend! Rage2 - such small scales are called WEATHER, not CLIMATE. And his reference? A fuckin BLOG?! From Luboš Motl, a so-proclaimed "conservative physicist" no less? It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that politics should have just as much influence on science as religion does. I'd like to see rage2 defend a thesis with blog links. :rofl:
I'm not here to defend a thesis. I'm here to spark discussion and debate in regards to global warming. Sure the data's being discussed on a blog link, it doesn't make the data invalid. We hit 2 years of cooling and a flat temperature curve since 1998... that's a fact, regardless if it's mainstream media, blogs, whatever. It's raw data, and it's valid for discussion.

Mainstream media predicted 2007 to be a record hot year in Jan 2007 based on estimates from your "credible scientists". Here's an example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6228765.stm

Making a big deal out of a cold 2007 would make them look stupid, so obviously the news isn't as mainstream as global warming news. Everyone has an agenda... mainstream media historically has taken sides and is not going to tell the complete truth about everything.

An interesting observation... I like how the global warming folks have now adopted it as climate change. You know we hear of alarmists saying we're going through global cooling... once they were wrong, alarmists go off on global warming. So instead of being potentially wrong, it's now climate change, so they're never wrong! :rofl:.

In any case, cold changes in climate are much worse for humanity than warm changes. Look at how badly a cold year has affected us:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/COMMENTARY/10575140

Climate changes happen. It's happened through the course of earth's history, even during periods of relative climate stability before mankind was on this earth. We should be prepared, instead of trying to fight it, because its impossible.

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=164002

[rage2]

Oh ya, I found this little gem this morning. 1975 article on global cooling haha. Not that it's really relevant in this discussion, but it's a funny read.

http://denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

[ICEBERG]

Actually rage is right. I read somewhere that from 1998-2007 global average temperature did not increase there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero.

The problem here is not that of climate change per se, but rather that of the sophisticated scientific brainwashing that has been inflicted on the public about global warming...

[adam c]

i want my calgary warming dammit

[rage2]

Originally posted by ICEBERG
Actually rage is right. I read somewhere that from 1998-2007 global average temperature did not increase there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero.
The first graph clearly shows that :).

And to add a little more to the discussion, since we can't trust blogs, we can trust the general consensus... mainstream media reporting on behalf of respectable science? A history of freaking out over climate change:

http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2006/fireandice/fireandice.asp

[heavyD]

When will people learn that this whole global warming thing is nothing but politics. You want to run the country? Target the masses, the people of average or below average intelligence. Scare tactics have been used since the beginning of mankind. Vote for me or the corporations will continue to pollute the atmosphere. Vote for me and the weather will never change. Vote for me and the north pole will stop melting. Vote for me to save your children and future generations.

People such as Rage and myself understand that the only constant of earth is that it's always changing. Earth is over 4 billion years old humans have occupied the earth for only 2 million years. Supposedly one land mass separated to form the continents. There have been ice ages, heat ages, etc. We are talking massive changes over time. Dinosaurs and other reptiles, mammals, etc inhabited the earth for hundreds of millions of years more than man. We are nothing more than a small blip on the earth's radar. We could all nuke each other and obliviate the planet of life but the earth will go on. Over the course of years, new life forms will grow, landmasses will change, and weather will change.

I'm a smart independent thinker. Do you really expect me to believe that man has any sort of control of global weather?

Mankind should spend more time trying to rid our species of religion. Hatred and violence is inherent in our species but religion cultivates the hatred and breeds much of the senseless violence that has occurred over the history of mankind. I find it humorous and at the same time sad that mankind's science & technology has evolved exponentially over the years yet the majority of the world still abides by ideology and structure created hundreds of years ago by humans which didn't even have the intelligence to create electricity or power.

[01RedDX]

.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
But I also believe that humans are destined to destroy themselves one way or another, which makes this argument useless.

Exactly. Man kills man, man kills animals, man kills plants. Man won't kill life or the earth. Until all of mankind changes it's whole ideology of life this whole global warming thing is nothing but fluff.

[ianmcc]

Global warming is the new BIG LIE. Trust a capitalistic economy like the US and Canada to create an opportunity to make money trading carbon credits which don't actually reduce anything.
Global warming was created to make money pure and simple, from companies selling carbon credits to scientists using flawed and incomplete data and studies to conjure up more funding.

Fact- greenhouse gas emissions are comprised of:
Water vapor................................95.000%
Carbon Dioxide (CO2)...................3.618%
Methane (CH4)...............................0.360%
Nitrous oxide (N2O)......................0.950%
CFC's (and other misc. gases).......0.072%
Total..........................................100.000%

Fact-Man-made CO2 emissions are 3.225% of all CO2 emissions.

Fact-3.225% of 3.618% is .001166805 (let's call it 0.117%) so man-made CO2 emissions account for 0.117% of all CO2 emissions.

Fact-man-made greenhouse gas emissions account for 0.28% of all greenhouse gas emissions (note that the non-water vapor emissions listed above are not 100% man-made).

Fact-The Kyoto Protocol calls for mandatory carbon dioxide reductions of 30% from developed countries like the U.S.. So is the economic pain of the Kyoto protocol worth (30% of 0.117%) 0.0351% reduction in CO2 emissions?

People, listen up. One year in the geological sence of the earth's history is insignificant. So is a decade, a century, a thousand years. A thousand years is 0.0000002% of the earth's lifespan. Meteor strikes, ice ages, shifting poles and moving tectonic plates, the sun and it's solar flares, all natural events and there's not a damn thing we can do about them.
Now go fill up the H2 and stomp around K-country and stop worrying about global warming.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by Mixalot27
Hopefully Global Warming is coming to an end, the Pirates are really getting out of hand:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2664/funnypiratesgraphav7.jpg

Pirates obviously had a cooling effect on the globe. bring back the pirates!

[Eleanor]

You mean people don't have utter dominance over everything on the earth? :eek: :rolleyes:

[mx73someday]

We should all agree that global warming is still speculative and that it's premature for government to introduce legislation like carbon taxes. All the new legislation I hear about sounds like government believes global warming as fact, but rather than tax industry they have an easier time taxing individuals. It doesn't help that a lot of people have been scared into believing that global warming is fact and are willing to be taxed to prevent it.

Transport Canada for instance wants to make a made-in-Canada emissions standard for cars and light trucks. This is more of a calculated effort to further prevent individuals from importing US models (because they won't meet our emissions standard), only this time in the name of global warming (last year it was the Canadian immobilizer standard).

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by ianmcc
Global warming is the new BIG LIE. Trust a capitalistic economy like the US and Canada to create an opportunity to make money trading carbon credits which don't actually reduce anything.
Global warming was created to make money pure and simple, from companies selling carbon credits to scientists using flawed and incomplete data and studies to conjure up more funding.

Fact- greenhouse gas emissions are comprised of:
Water vapor................................95.000%
Carbon Dioxide (CO2)...................3.618%
Methane (CH4)...............................0.360%
Nitrous oxide (N2O)......................0.950%
CFC's (and other misc. gases).......0.072%
Total..........................................100.000%

Fact-Man-made CO2 emissions are 3.225% of all CO2 emissions.

Fact-3.225% of 3.618% is .001166805 (let's call it 0.117%) so man-made CO2 emissions account for 0.117% of all CO2 emissions.

Fact-man-made greenhouse gas emissions account for 0.28% of all greenhouse gas emissions (note that the non-water vapor emissions listed above are not 100% man-made).

Fact-The Kyoto Protocol calls for mandatory carbon dioxide reductions of 30% from developed countries like the U.S.. So is the economic pain of the Kyoto protocol worth (30% of 0.117%) 0.0351% reduction in CO2 emissions?

People, listen up. One year in the geological sence of the earth's history is insignificant. So is a decade, a century, a thousand years. A thousand years is 0.0000002% of the earth's lifespan. Meteor strikes, ice ages, shifting poles and moving tectonic plates, the sun and it's solar flares, all natural events and there's not a damn thing we can do about them.
Now go fill up the H2 and stomp around K-country and stop worrying about global warming.

Source for these facts? I'm doing a presentation next saturday, and I'll either do it on the sham of global warming and hybrids etc. or the benefit of steroids in sports. :D

[old&slow]

Every few years people need something to go on about.
Vietnam,Womens right,peoples rights, the seal hunt,global cooling, middle east,another war,global warming...there's no end...give it a couple more years and this trend will fall from the top in favor of the next thing.

People get into political topics like clothing fashions...Politicians will take advantage, tax will go up but nothing will change...and folks wonder about voter apathy!!

[old&slow]

Originally posted by ianmcc
Global warming is the new BIG LIE. Trust a capitalistic economy like the US and Canada to create an opportunity to make money trading carbon credits which don't actually reduce anything.
Global warming was created to make money pure and simple, from companies selling carbon credits to scientists using flawed and incomplete data and studies to conjure up more funding.

Fact- greenhouse gas emissions are comprised of:
Water vapor................................95.000%
Carbon Dioxide (CO2)...................3.618%
Methane (CH4)...............................0.360%
Nitrous oxide (N2O)......................0.950%
CFC's (and other misc. gases).......0.072%
Total..........................................100.000%

Fact-Man-made CO2 emissions are 3.225% of all CO2 emissions.

Fact-3.225% of 3.618% is .001166805 (let's call it 0.117%) so man-made CO2 emissions account for 0.117% of all CO2 emissions.

Fact-man-made greenhouse gas emissions account for 0.28% of all greenhouse gas emissions (note that the non-water vapor emissions listed above are not 100% man-made).

Fact-The Kyoto Protocol calls for mandatory carbon dioxide reductions of 30% from developed countries like the U.S.. So is the economic pain of the Kyoto protocol worth (30% of 0.117%) 0.0351% reduction in CO2 emissions?

People, listen up. One year in the geological sence of the earth's history is insignificant. So is a decade, a century, a thousand years. A thousand years is 0.0000002% of the earth's lifespan. Meteor strikes, ice ages, shifting poles and moving tectonic plates, the sun and it's solar flares, all natural events and there's not a damn thing we can do about them.
Now go fill up the H2 and stomp around K-country and stop worrying about global warming.

In a sense, I think it's kind of arrogant that scientists flaunt global warming. With respect to the Earth's size and age I think they have enuf info to be dangerous. We as a race certainly have disrespected our world and could do better.
But a lot of that disregard for out planet is a small group of greedy people. Now the rest of us are asked to clean it up!

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Source for these facts? I'm doing a presentation next saturday, and I'll either do it on the sham of global warming and hybrids etc. or the benefit of steroids in sports. :D

Sham of hybirds? It is really a waste of the manufacturing resources to take an already efficient passenger car and try to squeeze a little more out of it, these resources should be devoted to improving the efficiency of inefficient vehicles. Even though it sounds nice that you can take a 30 mile per gallon car and double the mileage to 60 mpg, you actually save twice as much fuel increasing the mileage of a 10 mpg transport truck to 15 mpg, for example, the amount of fuel used for 1000 miles of travel for the truck:

10 mpg: 100 gallons
15 mpg: 66.7 gallons

So increasing the mileage of an inefficient vehicle by 5 mpg saves 33.3 gallons of fuel per 1000 miles of travel. So to take an already efficient passenger car at 30 mpg and optimistically double the fuel mileage by making it a hybrid:

30 mpg: 33.3 gallons
60 mpg: 16.67 gallons

The fuel savings are 16.67 gallons. You save twice as much fuel by increasing the mileage of the truck by 5 mpg in comparison to increasing the mileage of the car by 30 mpg.

What isn't understood by a lot of people is that the mpg gallon scale isn't linear, you get diminishing returns in the amount of fuel saved as the miles per gallon increase. A doubling of mileage doesn't lead to doubling the amount of fuel you've saved.

Hybrids are a sham to make people feel better about themselves or to trick them into thinking that they are saving tremendous amounts of fuel. With high gas prices and public obsession with global warming, it's just another marketing tactic for the manufacturers, not some altruistic business plan. In short, it's all just green-washing. Not to mention the ignorance of politicians who target the general public and force them to increase the mileage of their already efficient vehicles for minimal fuel savings, when in reality they should be targeting largely inefficient commercial vehicles such as large trucks. But it's easier to target and manipulate the general public and make them feel guilty if they don't drive a hybrid.

[ianmcc]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Source for these facts? I'm doing a presentation next saturday, and I'll either do it on the sham of global warming and hybrids etc. or the benefit of steroids in sports. :D

Here...
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

There is a lot of good info on here; I just presented some of the info regarding CO2 emissions.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by badatusrnames


Sham of hybirds...

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188


Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

I'm sure hybrids will be much better in the future. I only skimmed that article though and was thinking about recharging these batteries, where does the electricity come from? Coal plants?

Besides, the point of my presentation is to take something controversial and argue it, it doesn't have to be "right."

[randedge]

Global warming is something the west created to label the emerging Chinese economic dominance as evil, in order to keep them from catching up.

Goes along with all the other things that the Chinese aren't allowed to do, but it's ok when we do it - cuz we're so fucking righteous.

Chinese occupation of Tibet? EEEEVIL subjugation! Posturing towards Taiwan? EVIIIILL expansionist plans! Nevermind that this continent was founded on the subjugation of a pre existing Native culture and population.

Lackadaisical Chinese labour laws? Sweatshops? EEEEVIL human abuses! Nevermind that the industrial age was fueled in no small part by child labour.

Flooding of Three Gorges? Polluting of major estuaries in China? EEeEEEEVIIIL! Nevermind that once the River Thames was declared biologically dead.

We did all these in the past, but we've forgiven ourselves. But we get to browbeat anyone who does it to catch up to our standard of living.

China shooting down one of their sattelites? EEEEVIL Chinese plans to claim space for theirs! Oh, wait, we got our own anti-sattelite missiles to test. We'll go ahead anyway. It's ok when we do it. Only bad when Asians do.

[turbo4dr]

Well I hate to break it to you all but ... I am pretty sure global warming refers more to the water temp of the ocean..... not sure on the specs... but the ocean temp around the world has gone up 2 degries over the last few years and thats not good for the coral and marine life... I dont know how it effects Humans too much tho?? any thoughts????

[Kavy]

I am learned, well i know how to google anyways

Global warming is the increase in the average temperature of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans in recent decades and its projected continuation.

The global average air temperature near the Earth's surface rose 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.33 ± 0.32 °F) during the hundred years ending in 2005.

[HuMz]

For anyone whos really interested on the subject of "global warming", I challenge you to read Glen Becks new book "An inconvient book".

Aside from his view on how fucked up the world really is, theres a good portion with FACTS proving that Global warming is more of a scare tactic and a marketing tool for enviromentally friendly companies trying to get rich off of it. (Al gore being one of them)

[old&slow]

Originally posted by HuMz
For anyone whos really interested on the subject of "global warming", I challenge you to read Glen Becks new book "An inconvient book".

Aside from his view on how fucked up the world really is, theres a good portion with FACTS proving that Global warming is more of a scare tactic and a marketing tool for enviromentally friendly companies trying to get rich off of it. (Al gore being one of them)

I don't need to read a book to know that! I been saying that from day 1!!

[DonJuan]

I am so glad I havn't had to post anything on here! You guys have actually found much of the major evidence out there that is contrary to the Anthropogenic Global Warming theory.

There is so many people that actually did a little digging, and changed their opinion to and INFORMED opinion by thinking critically on the evidence that was presented and asking questions. Rather than what some alarmist douche bag says ERR exaggerates ERR makes up ERR fabricates in a movie.

and spikers has actually touched on a very interesting topic of Polar shift. Yes it does happen on a cycle, and it is believed (disputed) that it happens suddenly (in geologic terms) without much warning. All we really know is that we are overdue for a polar shift. So this is probably something that we should be worrying about more.

and Rage, you may laugh at the global cooling and the coming ice age warnings from the 70's but back then it was cutting edge science. Which is why this issue holds no water with anyone (except 1) in the Geology faculty. I'm not gonna name names, but the 1 is undecided.

[msommers]

I guess the ice shelves will start accreting since its gotten pretty nippy these last couples years.....

People still are not understanding a very simple concept of equilibrium. Whether it is not intuitive to them or they are just plain ignorant is another discussion. Sorry to break it to you guys but releasing toxins into the atmosphere is going to affect you somehow!

And while you're contemplating if hell is going to freeze over, think about this. Pole reversals and the reduction of the magnetic fields that surround the Earth, effectively allowing all solar radiation to bombard you!. Not only that, all electronics and possibly even the amino acids situated in your own body could go haywire! Oh the madness.

[boredengineer]

Originally posted by randedge
Global warming is something the west created to label the emerging Chinese economic dominance as evil, in order to keep them from catching up.

Goes along with all the other things that the Chinese aren't allowed to do, but it's ok when we do it - cuz we're so fucking righteous.

Chinese occupation of Tibet? EEEEVIL subjugation! Posturing towards Taiwan? EVIIIILL expansionist plans! Nevermind that this continent was founded on the subjugation of a pre existing Native culture and population.

Lackadaisical Chinese labour laws? Sweatshops? EEEEVIL human abuses! Nevermind that the industrial age was fueled in no small part by child labour.

Flooding of Three Gorges? Polluting of major estuaries in China? EEeEEEEVIIIL! Nevermind that once the River Thames was declared biologically dead.

We did all these in the past, but we've forgiven ourselves. But we get to browbeat anyone who does it to catch up to our standard of living.

China shooting down one of their sattelites? EEEEVIL Chinese plans to claim space for theirs! Oh, wait, we got our own anti-sattelite missiles to test. We'll go ahead anyway. It's ok when we do it. Only bad when Asians do.

:rofl: That's all I have to say about this post :P I don't think I have had such a good laugh about someone so misguided. I hope you are joking.

[Reap]

a campfire puts out three times the CO2 a Cadillac Escalade would use in two of its lifespans.
Humans don't create enough CO2 to cause the world to start "warming"
the world cools and warms over the centuries, its nothing to worry about.
I suggest you all to watch "The Global Warming Swindle"
absolutely amazing video.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Reap
a campfire puts out three times the CO2 a Cadillac Escalade would use in two of its lifespans.


Umm not so sure about that... I think you are getting carbon dioxide confused with pollutants...

[randedge]

Originally posted by boredengineer


:rofl: That's all I have to say about this post :P I don't think I have had such a good laugh about someone so misguided. I hope you are joking.

Am I? Not sur emyself :D

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by boredengineer


:rofl: That's all I have to say about this post :P I don't think I have had such a good laugh about someone so misguided. I hope you are joking.

I think he's kind of joking, but at the same time pointing out that China is no different then the west 100 years ago.