Demerits

[89coupe]

Has anyone tried to go down to the courts lately to remove demerits from a traffic ticket? Is it possible anymore?

[The Cosworth]

IIRC you can no longer completly have the demerits removed, just reduced

[rc2002]

Nope not possible. The last time I tried it, I still wound up with one demerit point.



Ticketed drivers can't avoid demerit points
Last Updated: Friday, July 7, 2006 | 12:10 PM MT
CBC News

Albertans hit with traffic tickets will no longer be able to bargain their way out of the demerit points that can lead to driver's licence suspensions and costlier insurance.

Drivers have been able to plead guilty to a lesser charge that included a fine, but no demerits. Alberta Justice put a stop to that practice, starting this week.

"Demerit points are an important part of highway safety," said David Dear, spokesman for Alberta Justice.

"It's a way of removing bad drivers from the road, ultimately, and we don't think you should be allowed to avoid those when we can prove that you were at the wheel."

Thousands of traffic violations

On Alberta roads, 42,000 traffic tickets are handed out every month.

Drivers can get demerit points for each violation, such as three points for failing to halt at a stop sign. Fifteen or more points in under two years means a licence suspension of between one and six months.

Companies can also up vehicle insurance rates on the basis of demerit points.

Some drivers choose to fight the ticket by heading to a First Appearance Centre, where they can speak with a provincial Crown prosecutor with no appointment.

About a third plead guilty and manage to negotiate a lesser charge with the prosecutor, avoiding demerit points.

Changes introduced Tuesday in Calgary and province-wide this week mean drivers can still bargain for a lower fine and fewer demerits, but the province is outlawing the practice of removing the points entirely.

More drivers taking tickets to trial

In Calgary, Crown prosecutor Richard Parken said the change will help prosecutors better track repeat offenders.

However, even in its first week, more drivers are now wanting to take their tickets into courtrooms, he said. Drivers are pleading not guilty, taking a chance on winning a trial and avoiding the demerit points.

Courtrooms will get even busier as more people find out about the new rules and plead not guilty, said Charlie Pester, who helps people fight their traffic tickets.

"If you're looking at trying to keep the points off your record, the bottom line is you can forget about going to the [First Appearance Centre]," he said.


*edit*

More discussion here:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137507

[BlkMaxima]

Yeah, I had one that was going to be 3 points and $172. He knocked it down to 2 points and $86. Which was good but not great.

Also, those traffic defense guys are a waste of money unless you don't have the time to be in court. Or have a really bad ticket.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

The only way is to fight the ticket completely off and get it ripped up. IE go to court..

[89coupe]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
The only way is to fight the ticket completely off and get it ripped up. IE go to court..

Yeh, I hired a lawyer. I'm too lazy to go myself.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Lawyers won't always fight it off. They'll usually just get it down to the minimum. Honestly, the best bet is doing it yourself, and getting disclosure.. (Evidence) such as the records on the radar/laser guns, making sure everything was calibrated at the time, etc..

But if you want to hire a lawyer, that's your call.

[FiveFreshFish]

There used to be a defensive driving course you can take that reduces your demerits by 2 or 3. Not sure if this is still the case.

[dropdat]

Not true. I recently got a ticket for 17 over and it was supposed to be 3 demerits. I spoke to the crown and he marked it as a registered ticket. Demerits stayed the same, he just told me I had to pay the fine in full while I was down there, which I was more then willing to do.

[fcuk_it]

Originally posted by dropdat
Not true. I recently got a ticket for 17 over and it was supposed to be 3 demerits. I spoke to the crown and he marked it as a registered ticket. Demerits stayed the same, he just told me I had to pay the fine in full while I was down there, which I was more then willing to do.

what did you say to him to get it marked as a registered ticket??

[FlamingC19]

Originally posted by FiveFreshFish
There used to be a defensive driving course you can take that reduces your demerits by 2 or 3. Not sure if this is still the case.

Yea there still is, I took it a couple of weeks ago. Its usually a 1 day 8 hour class costs about $100-120 and you get 3 demerits off your license if you pass the class. This class is worth it for anyone who has even 1 ticket because it will save you so much money in insurance. You can only do it every 2 years though!

[dropdat]

Originally posted by fcuk_it


what did you say to him to get it marked as a registered ticket??

Nothing really, I simply told him that I didn't know that I was speeding (went from an 80 to a 60 zone and I must have missed the sign) and that I am more then willing to pay the entire fine but would like to do something to keep my demerits.

[cdnsir]

Easter fcking Monday and I have to come to work... And in return, I got pulled over for speeding this morning! Fck!

I got a "115(2)(p)Speeding", got clocked at 89 on a 60km/h zone. So the ticket saids $255, and from the Sticky post, looks like I'll get slapped with 3 points as well.

I used to go speak to the crown in the morning to talk my way out of the demerit points. Now from what I read here, looks like they stopped doing that since last summer.

My questions is, did anybody here do anything to reduce the demerits/fine recently? Or am I SOL and should just do the Voluntary Guilty Payment, and take all the penalties as is?

[rc2002]

^ Did you even read what the guy above you posted? He got his reduced to a RO charge. Might as well try it.

Don't plan on pleading not guilty if you get a bad plea bargain though. Last time the crown prosecutor refused to remove all my demerit points and threatened to write a really bad note on my file if I tried to plead not guilty.

I ended up with a ticket on my record for 1 demerit (10km/h over the limit).

[cdnsir]

Yeah, I just wanted to see how did other people handled their tickets lately that's all. Because the new rule from July 07 sounded really strict when it comes to the crown letting you off with a deal...

I used to just go in, the crown would simply read my ticket and give me a decent offer in exchange for me pleading guilty completely hassle-free. I was really easy, and totally worth the time.

Now, I'm just wondering what kind of approach should I take when I go down there. Go with the old, yes I'm guilty, and hope he'll give me a deal? Or should I take a firmer not-guilty stance and be prepared to fight?

[v2kai]

bump i need advice on this too

[danno]

i got my first ticket in 7-8 years, does anyone know if it will affect my insurance. 83 in a 50, it was down hill. whoops.

[liquidboi69]

Originally posted by danno
i got my first ticket in 7-8 years, does anyone know if it will affect my insurance. 83 in a 50, it was down hill. whoops.

I was told by my insurance company, after 5 years, the ticket does not affect your insurance premiums for my accident that I got into

[n03l]

lol that's great, I just got my first ticket today too. 84 in a 60 zone, also going down hill!. 147 bucks 2-3 demerits she said... I don't think it'll effect my insurance.

[cdnsir]

OK, here's what ended up happening with me this month.

Got in, sat with the Crown. She explain some additional details on my ticket. I explained why I speed. Then she showed me which bracket I was in, in terms of speeding penalties. (29km/h over = $225 + 4 demerits)

She then proceed to say "Here's what I can do for you.", and said she can only bump it down to one bracket down to $124 + 3 demerits. She went on with explaining possible insurance implications, and how to get rid of the demerits through defensive driving courses.

At the end, I accepted and paid for my ticket there. So the conclusion is, the following post regarding the new policy is not as strict as it might sound.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137507

[JRSC00LUDE]

Demerits would make your insurance go up what, $500 bucks? $1000? Just don't go out for lunch next tuesday, problem solved!






(jk's, hahaha.... me so funny) :D

[rc2002]

Originally posted by cdnsir
OK, here's what ended up happening with me this month.

Got in, sat with the Crown. She explain some additional details on my ticket. I explained why I speed. Then she showed me which bracket I was in, in terms of speeding penalties. (29km/h over = $225 + 4 demerits)

She then proceed to say "Here's what I can do for you.", and said she can only bump it down to one bracket down to $124 + 3 demerits. She went on with explaining possible insurance implications, and how to get rid of the demerits through defensive driving courses.

At the end, I accepted and paid for my ticket there. So the conclusion is, the following post regarding the new policy is not as strict as it might sound.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137507

4 demerits to 3 demerits, and a reduction of 50% is pretty strict in my books. It used to be that you would get all 4 demerits stricken plus a reduction in the fine.

[benyl]

I got an RO ticket after the changes. But that is because the officer failed to write down my DL number on the back of the ticket. CP said, you pay the whole fine now with no demerits or come back to court and fight it. He said I would win in court and not have to pay, nor have any points.

I paid the ticket as I didn't want to come back.

[cmodem]

Originally posted by richardchan2002


4 demerits to 3 demerits, and a reduction of 50% is pretty strict in my books. It used to be that you would get all 4 demerits stricken plus a reduction in the fine.

:werd: before you didn't even need to do anything just go and say i'll pay but i don't want any demerits. Then off you go.

Last ticket i went to pointts they got it off for me. Was a 150 bucks more then charge of ticket. IMHO i'd rather pay an extra 150 then have the insurance know about the ticket for 3 years.

3 years = 1095 days
150/1095 = 13 cents a day.

Insurance will never know.

[cdnsir]

True, but I was under the impression that I'll be there on my knees and she won't care at all. She did mention that it's up to the insurance company to check if their clients got a ticket every year, the court actually never sends them the info. So there's a good chance that some tickets do slip through unnoticed.

The 3 Demerits do sck I must admit, but I'm all right with that. The thing is, my broker offered me a wavier "coupon" when I first signed up. It was so that my first ticket can be waived off my records if I ever get one. If they find out about this ticket, I guess it'll get used. I just gotta see if I can negotiate another coupon next year I guess...

[zipdoa]

I was driving in a friends skyline through tuscany a few weeks ago when my friend in the passenger seat tells me there's a COP across the median... I check my speed and make sure I'm doing the limit, and luckly my radar detector doesn't go off... However, the COP proceeds to pull a U-Turn and pull me over, stating that I was doing 75km/h in a 50 zone. I ask him to see the proof on the Radar gun but he says "the information has already been erased from the screen". This, combined with the fact that my Passport 8500 X50 didn't go off, makes me think he just pulled me over being in a Skyline. I know they're COP magnets anyway, so I don't speed, especially in residential areas.

Any advice? Think I could win this in court?

[Grogador]

zipdoa: If you weren't speeding, plead not guilty and take it to court, especially if he refused to show you the readout. Was he driving or parked? Did he even have the dash-mounted mobile radar in his vehicle? Usually only RCMP and ghost cars have them, and the numbers don't get magically cleared off his screen.

For other tickets, go talk to the JP and get the fine/demerits reduced. If you don't feel like wasting a half day of work, call up:

Nadeau & Associates
#1, 3500 27th St. N.E.
Calgary, AB
T1Y 5E2

403.271.2849

For $20 or $40 depending on the ticket, he'll go down and get it reduced. Saves you wasting half a day of work. Got my (yellow, not red) 50 over down to 30 over ($180 savings and one or two less demerits) and failure to present down $50.

[Grogador]

Oh and the cop doesn't have to show you his readout, and the judge will always believe him over you... so best of luck. Sounds like you might have a solid case though, he may not even show up.

Only thing the cop has to do for you is show ID.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by Grogador
zipdoa: If you weren't speeding, plead not guilty and take it to court, especially if he refused to show you the readout. Was he driving or parked? Did he even have the dash-mounted mobile radar in his vehicle? Usually only RCMP and ghost cars have them, and the numbers don't get magically cleared off his screen.

For other tickets, go talk to the JP and get the fine/demerits reduced. If you don't feel like wasting a half day of work, call up:

Nadeau & Associates
#1, 3500 27th St. N.E.
Calgary, AB
T1Y 5E2

403.271.2849

For $20 or $40 depending on the ticket, he'll go down and get it reduced. Saves you wasting half a day of work. Got my (yellow, not red) 50 over down to 30 over ($180 savings and one or two less demerits) and failure to present down $50.

He was parked, and my friend said he looked to be working on his laptop (he could see the light from the screen), but I couldn't tell you if he had a dash mounted unit set up or not because it was took dark. I booked a court date for October, so I better win!!!

[GQBalla]

^^ you could win,

and if you werent speeding than fight it till the end.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by cmodem


:werd: before you didn't even need to do anything just go and say i'll pay but i don't want any demerits. Then off you go.

Last ticket i went to pointts they got it off for me. Was a 150 bucks more then charge of ticket. IMHO i'd rather pay an extra 150 then have the insurance know about the ticket for 3 years.

3 years = 1095 days
150/1095 = 13 cents a day.

Insurance will never know.

Your joking right? Insurance will still know.

Insurance doesn't give a flying fuck about the demerits you have. It's the amount of convictions. If you have a ticket w/ no demerits, but there was still a fine. It's a conviction, and it WILL count. They usually won't increase premium's until 3 tickets, but it depends entirely upon the insurance company.

EDIT: Didn't read you got the ticket thrown out. Sorry.

But my point still stands, if you still get convicted (with or without demerits) it still stands against you in your insurer's eyes.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Your joking right? Insurance will still know.

Insurance doesn't give a flying fuck about the demerits you have. It's the amount of convictions. If you have a ticket w/ no demerits, but there was still a fine. It's a conviction, and it WILL count. They usually won't increase premium's until 3 tickets, but it depends entirely upon the insurance company.

EDIT: Didn't read you got the ticket thrown out. Sorry.

But my point still stands, if you still get convicted (with or without demerits) it still stands against you in your insurer's eyes.

That's actually not true. A conviction that gets reduced to zero demerits does not show up on your abstract so your insurance company will not find out about it.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I had a conviction that was 0 demerits, and my insurance company definitely knows about it.

I had points fight it. It was a $120 fine, and 0 demerits

AND it does show on my abstract

[rc2002]

Even if it shows on your abstract, it carries no points and won't affect insurance rates.

[v2kai]

i recently went down to fight a ticket. crown was nice, got rid of all the demerits. i just explained myself nicely and asked what he could do for me.... its all up to them and their judgement i guess:thumbsup:

[Joe-G]

What was the ticket for?

[Catfishrah]

Was just in traffic court yesterday. The guy I talked to was a mean and abusive jerk, but I was able to get my fine reduced, but keep the 2 demerits.
Now, my bf and I share the car (and thus, the insurance), and he got a ticket with 2 demerits earlier this year. So now together we have 4 demerits on our car insurance. Is this likely to increase our rates, assuming our insurance co. checks every year (I'm pretty sure they do)? We also have one at-fault collision each within the last 6 years.
We had both been driving for 15 incident-free (no tickets or accidents) and now we seem to have had a run of bad luck. :facepalm:

[benyl]

Why don't you call your broker instead of asking people on Beyond who have no idea?

[Crymson]

You can get demerits removed by taking a defensive driving course.

[CUG]

I'm paying lawyers to handle this now. It sucks that traffic piglets can force you to defend bullshit charges.

[adam c]

demerits don't go on cars or a shit load of people would have them for photo radar tickets or any ticket that the police can't prove the owner was driving...

demerits go on YOUR record not anyone else!

[Catfishrah]

Originally posted by benyl
Why don't you call your broker instead of asking people on Beyond who have no idea?

Because in case they don't check our driver's abstracts yearly, I'd rather not tip them off about it.

Don't assume no one will know. Many people ought to have experience with how two tickets have affected their insurance. But thanks anyways for the unhelpful and hostile response.

[Crymson]

Last i hear, and this was a few years ago, from a defensive driver instructor was that three "normal" tickets, will result in a +25% surcharge.

[Catfishrah]

Originally posted by adam c
demerits don't go on cars or a shit load of people would have them for photo radar tickets or any ticket that the police can't prove the owner was driving...

demerits go on YOUR record not anyone else!

No, but being that there are two drivers listed on our insurance for the ONE car, all driving record info gets combined. For example, even if I am the only one that drives the car, because I live with another licensed driver that doesn't have his own insurance on a seperate car, it is assumed he will be driving my car and thus I pay premiums based on our combined driving history. So even if I only have one ticket, if he has 5, I'll be paying premiums based on 6 tickets.

My insurance company told me a few months ago that our insurance rates would actually be cheaper if we got a 2nd beater car, because then we could qualify for a multi-vehicle discount, plus it would be cheaper cuz his infraction would be applied to one vehicle and mine on the other; therefore no vehicle would have more than one infraction applied to it. Although this is tempting, it's not feasible once you factor in maintenance costs, etc.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Catfishrah


Because in case they don't check our driver's abstracts yearly, I'd rather not tip them off about it.

Don't assume no one will know. Many people ought to have experience with how two tickets have affected their insurance. But thanks anyways for the unhelpful and hostile response.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Tip them off? That is a good one.

No one will know as they don't know you claim history and the amounts of those claims. Generally speaking, you should be allowed one ticket.

But since I am not an insurance broker, I am talking out my ass like any one else on here who responds and is not a broker.

Call your broker, not the insurance company. There is a difference.

[realazy]

There has been suggestions that somehow your demerits are linked to your insurance premiums.

So I just want to ask, does the number of tickets or the number of demerits affect your premiums? or both?

For example,

2 tickets at 2 demerits each worse or 1 ticket at 4 demerits?

Also, does taking the defensive driving course actually lower your premium?

I understand it removes 3 demerits off you, but your ticket history is still there.


Anyone know?

[Catfishrah]

Originally posted by benyl
No one will know as they don't know you claim history and the amounts of those claims.
...
Call your broker, not the insurance company. There is a difference.

As I understand it, Insurance co's can and do see your claim history. Even when tickets and claims "fall off" the record, from what I understand, it just means that they are not taken into account anymore. They are still on your record. It happened, and you can't change the past.

I am not sure what you mean by my broker. I never went through a broker/middleman. I have insurance with a particular co. wouldn't I just call them?

[adam c]

Originally posted by Catfishrah


No, but being that there are two drivers listed on our insurance for the ONE car, all driving record info gets combined. For example, even if I am the only one that drives the car, because I live with another licensed driver that doesn't have his own insurance on a seperate car, it is assumed he will be driving my car and thus I pay premiums based on our combined driving history. So even if I only have one ticket, if he has 5, I'll be paying premiums based on 6 tickets.

My insurance company told me a few months ago that our insurance rates would actually be cheaper if we got a 2nd beater car, because then we could qualify for a multi-vehicle discount, plus it would be cheaper cuz his infraction would be applied to one vehicle and mine on the other; therefore no vehicle would have more than one infraction applied to it. Although this is tempting, it's not feasible once you factor in maintenance costs, etc.

you can get 100 tickets in a year and it won't affect you until your insurance is up for renewal.. so that whole tipping the broker/insurance company off is a stupid excuse. they can see your record anytime they want, especially when it's time for renewal

it's also simple, when they ask if anyone else will drive your car, say no... i don't let anyone drive my car

btw. if you don't know how insurance works, why are you driving a car?!

[Catfishrah]

Originally posted by adam c

you can get 100 tickets in a year and it won't affect you until your insurance is up for renewal

it's also simple, when they ask if anyone else will drive your car, say no... i don't let anyone drive my car

btw. if you don't know how insurance works, why are you driving a car?!

No, you can't get 100 tickets in a year. As soon as you get 15 points, your license is up for suspension.

Simple? They don't ask if you will "let" anyone else drive your car. They ask if there are any other licensed drivers in the household. So you are saying I should lie.

As for not knowing how insurance works, I know quite a bit, but I am not so ignorant as to claim I know everything. There are always factors that people don't know about. New issues, changing laws. I'm not sure why you are being so condemning and rude. As I said, I have been driving for 15 years (steady) and this was my first infraction so this is a new issue to me that I have never had to consider before. It's fair that I want to have a simple discussion in an open forum. That's what this forum is here for. If you have nothing constructive or informative to contribute, I ask that you do not respond to my posts.

[kenny]

Originally posted by Catfishrah


Because in case they don't check our driver's abstracts yearly, I'd rather not tip them off about it.

Don't assume no one will know. Many people ought to have experience with how two tickets have affected their insurance. But thanks anyways for the unhelpful and hostile response.

My insurance was unaffected after multiple tickets. I'm guessing since insurance companies must pay for getting driver's abstracts that they only pull it every few years or if they're digging for a reason to pump up your premiums.

[dannie]

It 100% depends on your insurance co. Mine doesnt pull my abstract at renewal. They only pull abstracts on clients if there is a major change in policy like..... if I normally drive a pinto and buy a lamborghini. Or if I move from Calgary to Edmonton or if I add another driver to the policy.

If I were you, I would just leave it. If they request your abstract at the time of renewal, then so be it. If they increase your premiums, you can always shop around a little.

[foreverchina]

Time to bump this...I just got a ticket for doing a right turn when I wasnt supossed to from 4pm-6pm ( i think) the ticket was $172 but was not mentioned if it had taken off any point. This was Garry Crescent NE turning right onto Trelle DR NE (the uphill turn behind Dennys and A&W by mcknight and edmonton trail). Possible demerits? If so is there any lawyers that can take them off?

[TurboD]

Originally posted by foreverchina
the ticket was $172 but was not mentioned if it had taken off any point.

police don't have to tell you the truth about demerits, they can lie to you and say it's no demerits.
the court also doesn't care about this, even if you got an audio recording and or video of it happen.

you have to investigate for yourself about how many demerits it is.
90% of the time its not a good idea to trust police.

[legendboy]

I got a fail to stop at a stop sign. 3pts adn $287.

I went and talked to the crown to try to get 0pts. I told him i was willing to pay double the find for no points and he said the govn't did alow them to give less then 2.

So i got 115 and 2pts.

Better go down early tho, was 40 people at 7:30 (was 1st in line at 7:15)


Only way is the plead ng and go to court

[foreverchina]

isnt there a way to pay lawyer so points aren't taken off?

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by TurboD
you have to investigate for yourself about how many demerits it is.
90% of the time its not a good idea to trust police. If you really want to investigate for yourself, you can check this link: http://canlii.org/en/ab/laws/regu/alta-reg-331-2002/latest/alta-reg-331-2002.html

Scroll down below the actual regulation to Schedule I, it lists the demerits for all offences from most demerits to the least.

[Disoblige]

This is quoting myself from a thread a while ago.


But luckily I got a great cop to help me. I ran a red light in December while it was incredibly slippery and he gave me a ticket. Of course I had to bring it to court because of the circumstances and he understood, especially it's a HUGE fine and demerits. I dunno if anyone recalls going to court, but there's a person who sits in court who signs you in and helps you "reduce your fine" (counselor?). There was a grumpy bitch there today who literally said I was an idiot for coming to trial and you should just pay it off and told me to sit down and wait for trial if you must. I was respectful to her and told the cop in the courtroom she didn't offer anything and he could tell she was a total bitch. So he was nice enough to run out and find me another person who could reduce it for me (because judges have no say in that matter in terms of demerits). Went to find an older GUY who didn't have nasty menopause temper and he offered me a ticket in Section 160(1) of the Traffic Safety Act where the "registered owner" of the vehicle will get charged. In other words, it's a photo radar ticket that has no record on my file or demerits

So it is possible to get 0 demerits depending on who you get. They just change it to a photo radar ticket, but they don't say it directly to you. They just say we'll change the ticket so the "registered owner" of the vehicle gets charged and you should take the hint haha

[dexlargo]

Originally posted by Disoblige
So it is possible to get 0 demerits depending on who you get. They just change it to a photo radar ticket, but they don't say it directly to you. They just say we'll change the ticket so the "registered owner" of the vehicle gets charged and you should take the hint haha Your experience is not normal. I know that the prosecution policy is to not change tickets to be as against the registered owner without a legitimate reason for doing so. Maybe the prosecutor had a problem with his proof of who was driving for your ticket - I don't know.

No one should expect the ticket to be changed, and I wouln't bother asking unless there is a good reason why the registered owner should be charged, and not the driver.