Review: M3 vs C63 vs IS-F

[Aleks]

It always seems the BMW is on top no matter what, and the Lexus finishes last. Even if there are biased writers out there there must be some truth to these articles:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison


1st Place
BMW M3
Speed, balance, and athleticism converge in today's best compact, high-performance sport sedan.

2nd Place
MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG
A solid, emotive machine that works as everyday transport-and accelerates like a first-gen Viper.

3rd Place
LEXUS IS F
Lexus's first effort in this category is a good one, lacking in only the finest of details.

[gpomp]

grab a seat and wait for the mercedes and toyota fanboys to show up. ie, rage2 and redlyne_mr2

[treg50]

Why did they omit Audi?

[Aleks]

Originally posted by treg50
Why did they omit Audi? .

My guess is it's not as new as these 3?

[treg50]

If they're comparing 2008 models, there is a 2008 Audi RS4 (http://www.wheels.ca/article/34513) which would have loved to compete. 420-hp, 317 lb-ft. ready to go. It's one of the oldest rivalries in recent auto history... and they leave out Audi, a classic big player?

WTF, do all these publications get paid off by BMW?

Just remember which sedan was best when going up against the M3 coupe. It's pretty ironic.
:thumbsdow

[gpomp]

Originally posted by treg50
Just remember which sedan was best when going up against the M3 coupe. It's pretty ironic.
:thumbsdow did you even read the article? that's a 4 door m3

[heavyD]

IMO these cars have so much to offer that you can't lose no matter which one you prefer.

[treg50]

Originally posted by gpomp
did you even read the article? that's a 4 door m3
Yup, I read it. I don't think you understand what you quoted from me though. I said M3 coupe, in reference to the dozens of reviews that compared the M3 coupe to Audi sedans and Mercedes sedans a recently as last year --- pre M3 sedan.

One thing I will say the M3 is the lightest by far. The RS4 would have weighed in between the IS-F and C63. Interestingly, the IS-F gets better mileage than the M3. For it's price though, the IS-F is pretty awesome.

[Hakkola]

I have to say I am surprised by those IS-F numbers, I would still chose the M3 (coupe) or the C63 over it though. I'm not liking the look of that M3 sedan.

[rage2]

I'm waiting to drive all 3 before posting. I have driven 0 of 3, so there's no arguing at all at this point haha.

[benyl]

Can you really argue the numbers though?

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_26z+sports_sedan_comparison+race_chart.jpg

[rage2]

I don't get why in *every* review they slide the C63 out so much. Obviously, that's not the fast way around the track. Definately the most fun tho :).

I'll still reserve judgement till I drive 'em all.

[SilverRex]

beside how many who drives these will push it to the limit and have nail biting sharp corner turns where 1/2 matters fo the driver?

from a practicality stand point, Basically I would put them in the similar ball park for performence.

so most deciding factors for buyers will most likely be the price, style and comfort/features.

This will make the ISF more and more attractive, better milage, Lexus quality and performence aint bad.

but if I have 70k, I would find a part time job, make the extra 10k and get myself the GTR

[benyl]

Originally posted by rage2
I don't get why in *every* review they slide the C63 out so much. Obviously, that's not the fast way around the track. Definately the most fun tho :).

I'll still reserve judgement till I drive 'em all.

Too much power?

I like how the IS-F understeers... haha (based on the biggest slip angles in the pic I posted)

[bigbadboss101]

Originally posted by SilverRex


but if I have 70k, I would find a part time job, make the extra 10k and get myself the GTR

Better talk to the wife first :whipped:

Hard to get little one out of the back.

[gpomp]

the m3 got 19.1 mpg and the lexus got 17.9 mpg. the bmw is more fuel efficient. what other advantages the lexus fanboys come up with?

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101


Better talk to the wife first :whipped:

Hard to get little one out of the back.

thats where the 94 accord sedan comes in for family time.

[Fuji]

Originally posted by benyl
Can you really argue the numbers though?

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_26z+sports_sedan_comparison+race_chart.jpg


You just love all these reviewsbecause you've turned into the biggest BMW fanboy on beyond ;P

[tentacles]

Only the M3 has LSD?

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by gpomp
the m3 got 19.1 mpg and the lexus got 17.9 mpg. the bmw is more fuel efficient. what other advantages the lexus fanboys come up with?
reliability will always save us :rofl: There is no competing against the M3, its a great car, its been around since the 80s so BMW has had lots of time to develop it. The ISF concept was an after hours hobby that made it into production. For Lexus's first attempt they did a good job but it will take more tweaking before they can take out the m3.

[dino_martini]

The RS4 was left out because the sedan is not in production any more. I think only the Cabriolet is.

I dont know how to choose between these three. They are all just about as good as sedans get.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by tentacles
Only the M3 has LSD?

THe C63 comes with LSD if you get the performance package...

Kind of funny that there is a such thing as an optional performance package on an amg. :banghead:

I wonder how it would have done with LSD. :dunno:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by tentacles
Only the M3 has LSD?
So does the ISF and C63 as Hakk mentioned.

[rage2]

IS-F does not have LSD. It's also not known if the sport package for the C63 would be available in north america yet.

[tentacles]

All these reviews here also say ISF doesn't have LSD.

Here (http://www.clublexus.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=455&Itemid=171) and here (http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/first_steer/Motive_First_Drive_2008_Lexus_IS-F.shtml)

I don't know who to believe. :nut:

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

So does the ISF and C63 as Hakk mentioned.

I should clarify that the C63 tested did not have the perf package.

[Eleanor]

According to this thread (http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3352366) it doesn't have a mechanical LSD. I don't know how accurate the source is though.

[5hift]

C63 AMG.

Who cares if its not a track car, most the people here mentioning the AMG's handling as a negative probably have never tracked a car in their life.

Viper-like accleration off the line and ridicoulous stopping power make for a much better (fun) daily driver IMO. And to the guys comparing fuel consumption ... we are looking at 400 HP+ V8 sport sedans that run 70K+, pretty sure none of the actual buyers in this segment give a fuck about a few more mpg of fuel efficiency.

Too bad I'd have to sell everything I own just to be able to even finance one of these nazi sleds.

[Altezza]

IS-F does not have a true LSD.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Altezza
IS-F does not have a true LSD.
Just talked to Lexus Canada and they confirmed what is in that forum thread, the VDIM works like an LSD but the car does not have a true mechanical LSD. When it does burnouts though both wheels spin. We'll see how it performs at race city this summer.

[herragge]

Originally posted by heavyD
IMO these cars have so much to offer that you can't lose no matter which one you prefer.

Finally something we can agree on.

[Fuji]

VDIM actually sucks compared to a true LSD... :(

[max_boost]

Originally posted by heavyD
IMO these cars have so much to offer that you can't lose no matter which one you prefer.

True. :werd:

Plus how many owners of high performance vehicles actually track their cars or drive them hard enough to make use of all the dynamic features that differentiate each vehicle? haha I know I don't lol but not sure if I'm in the minority or the majority.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by max_boost


True. :werd:

Plus how many owners of high performance vehicles actually track their cars or drive them hard enough to make use of all the dynamic features that differentiate each vehicle? haha I know I don't lol but not sure if I'm in the minority or the majority.

Personally I would take the M3 even though I think it's the ugliest of the three. Performance FTW! As someone else said already for this money I would rather move up to a GTR.

[gd3_kid]

hey, i just realized.... has anybody compared these to the new 2009 cts-v?

Its pushing out ridiculous numbers, and for people actually considering m3, amg, or is-f...wouldn't the cts-v be another viable choice?

[gpomp]

cts-v is an m5/e55 competitor.

[gpomp]

cts-v is an m5/e63 competitor.

[962 kid]

cts-v is an m63/e5 competitor.

[treg50]

Originally posted by gd3_kid
hey, i just realized.... has anybody compared these to the new 2009 cts-v?

Its pushing out ridiculous numbers, and for people actually considering m3, amg, or is-f...wouldn't the cts-v be another viable choice?
Probably not. These were just 2008 models. But that would make a good future comparison.

CTS-V vs. M3 vs. IS-F vs. C63 vs. RS4 :drool:

In the end though, if I were to get anyone of those cars for my everyday driving I'd be a happy car owner.

[treg50]

^ Probably not. These were just 2008 models. But that would make a good future comparison.

CTS-V vs. M3 vs. IS-F vs. C63 vs. RS4 :drool:

In the end though, if I were to get anyone of those cars for my everyday driving I'd be a happy car owner.

[gd3_kid]

yeah, the cts-v is supposed to an m5 fighter, but isn't it priced in the same range as an m3?
The reviewer make a note of that here:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/211785/cadillac-cts-vs-bmw-535xi/

I've never seen an american car I would take over its import competition, but for me, the cts-v would be the first choice in this category.

[treg50]

Yup, like the article from that thread you noted, the CTS is priced like a 3-series but powers & performs like the more expensive 5-series. That's pretty amazing. It attacks price and performance.

The CTS kills the 3-series because for the price of a 3-series you get a car with 5-series performance. Kills the 5-series because you get 5-series performance for 3-series price. Talk about learning, progressing, and improving -- Cadillac has made a CTS that's right in there with the other luxury leaders. The 2009 CTS seems like a hands-down winner, it should be VERY interesting to see how it translates to the CTS-V.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by treg50
The CTS kills the 3-series because for the price of a 3-series you get a car with 5-series performance.

if by 5-series performance, you mean slow as hell, then you are correct.

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent001/SNAG-1120.jpg

[ricefarmer]

Originally posted by gpomp


if by 5-series performance, you mean slow as hell, then you are correct.

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent001/SNAG-1120.jpg

except he is talking about the CTS-V

[Aleks]

Originally posted by ricefarmer


except he is talking about the CTS-V

No he isn't he's saying the CTS is a 3 series killer then going on to say CTS-V should be even better.

Beyond is getting sooo anti BMW. How else can you explain that statement above? :dunno:

[gpomp]

Originally posted by ricefarmer


except he is talking about the CTS-V
no he's not, but he did mention it briefly.


Originally posted by treg50
Yup, like the article from that thread you noted, the CTS is priced like a 3-series but powers & performs like the more expensive 5-series. That's pretty amazing. It attacks price and performance.

The CTS kills the 3-series because for the price of a 3-series you get a car with 5-series performance. Kills the 5-series because you get 5-series performance for 3-series price. Talk about learning, progressing, and improving -- Cadillac has made a CTS that's right in there with the other luxury leaders. The 2009 CTS seems like a hands-down winner, it should be VERY interesting to see how it translates to the CTS-V.

[ricefarmer]

whatever... 2008 Enzo Ferrari will own them all

[treg50]

Originally posted by gpomp

if by 5-series performance, you mean slow as hell, then you are correct.

Ummm, no. I said it's priced like 3-series but competes with the 5-series. As in the article in that other thread comparing the CTS DI to the 535xi. (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/211785/cadillac-cts-vs-bmw-535xi/) Maybe depending on what you consider "value" the CTS is a 5 for the price of a 3.

Here's what I was saying but in different words:

From the article in the other thread
A Cadillac CTS or BMW 5 Series, which one is the better car? It's a close race, but in value for money it's no contest...

Wait, isn't that a mismatch? Isn't the CTS priced to sell against the cheaper 3 Series? It may well be, but the interior space, engine displacement, and amenities are all stacked rather nicely against the 5 Series. Call it the silver lining to the weak-kneed U.S. dollar.

That's what I'm saying :)

[962 kid]

Originally posted by ricefarmer
whatever... 2008 Enzo Ferrari will own them all

no such thing ;)

[gd3_kid]

Plus, how is that comparison even slightly relevant?