Cadillac CTS vs. BMW 535xi

[Destinova403]

this is a good read, it looks like General Motors finally has their heads out of their asses and is making something worth looking at.

its also surprisingly unbiased which helps a lot.

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/mar2008/bw20080314_713158.htm?chan=autos_autos+--+lifestyle+subindex+page_top+stories

[Xtrema]

??

CTS = 3
STS = 5
DTS = 7

Why are they comparing different model level and say CTS wins because it's cheaper?

[Destinova403]

did you even read it?

he explains that in like the first paragraph.

[benyl]

CTS is a 5 series competitor.

The new CTS-V is aimed directly at the M5.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Destinova403
did you even read it?

he explains that in like the first paragraph.

Yeah. I guess.

But it's almost like saying a Hyundai is better than a Honda. In the end, it's what the tiny difference is worth to individuals.

[treg50]

^ For those intangibles and tiny differences, the difference you'll be paying is about $15,155.00 more for the BMW.


As you can see, for the dough you really can't vote against the Cadillac. The BMW is an excellent driver's car, but is it worth that much more?

By the way, fuel economy is nearly dead even for these two vehicles, with the BMW at 17 mpg city/25 mpg highway and the Caddy at 17/26. Bonus: The CTS drinks blue-collar regular while the BMW wants blue-blood premium.
Good article. Quite the eye-opener --- so much so that I think I'll give the CTS a test drive. It's good to know I have more options out there for my money. I used to think Cadillacs meant bad mileage, gaudy interior, and floaty handling buuuut it looks like that's all changed... this isn't the Cadillac I used to know

This is cool, personally I love the angular lines and the new front end on the CTS is killer and the rear is clean. A white CTS was stopped at a red light, facing me across an intersection and I thought "W in TF is that sexy beast?" Good looking car for sure, now with much improved game.

[Moe Man]

HAHA this really shut up beyonders. this is the only post that compared a GM product VS a German product and only lasted 6 posts.


hahaha whats wrong beyonders cant find something wrong about the CTS???:rofl:

[Xtrema]

Because this thread doesn't involve a Honda.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Because this thread doesn't involve a Honda. :werd:

[Inzane]

Originally posted by treg50
Good article. Quite the eye-opener --- so much so that I think I'll give the CTS a test drive. It's good to know I have more options out there for my money. I used to think Cadillacs meant bad mileage, gaudy interior, and floaty handling buuuut it looks like that's all changed... this isn't the Cadillac I used to know

ONE article and you've completely flipped? :dunno:

[treg50]

Read the original article and you might get it: the car is worth looking at.

I say I'm willing to consider a much improved vehicle which sounds like it's smashing old brand stereotypes annnnnd that means I've "completely flipped"? Oooookay...

[blownz]

I think there are lots of American cars that are worth a close look compared to thier Japanese/German competition.

You can often get 95% of the car for 80% of the price and to many people that is more than enough to put them in the car. Especially now that the reliability gap is becoming smaller all the time. And I wouldn't blame most people if that is what they are looking for.

Same reason lots of people like lots of Japanese cars over German cars. Good bang for the buck. You sometimes pay a lot for that last 5%.

But as always there will be lots of people that are more than happy to pay for that last 5% in order to have the best car in the class. :thumbsup:


That said I haven't driven the new CTS yet, but from what I have seen so far I wouldn't try to talk anyone out of one if that is what they wanted. It seems like a really solid offering by GM. :thumbsup:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Lots of cool american cars out there, the fit and finish still just isnt up to par with their competitors.

[blownz]

^ for the most part yes, but there are starting to be some exceptions and also some where the difference is pretty negligible.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by treg50
Read the original article and you might get it:

Oh, I did.



I say I'm willing to consider a much improved vehicle which sounds like it's smashing old brand stereotypes annnnnd that means I've "completely flipped" Oooookay...

No, the language you used in your previous post suggested you're totally convinced based on reading that one article.

Why don't you at least wait for some consensus in the automotive press, or until you've driven the car for yourself in the context of directly comparing it with its competitors, before you decide that "that's all changed".

Yep, sure sounds like it has based on that one journalist's opinion. Hmmm...

[b_t]

I'd get a CTS based on styling alone. Same with Cadillac's two door, the XLR... I'd take it over a Corvette because it is one of the most fantastic looking vehicles I have ever seen.

[A790]

Originally posted by b_t
I'd get a CTS based on styling alone. Same with Cadillac's two door, the XLR... I'd take it over a Corvette because it is one of the most fantastic looking vehicles I have ever seen.
100% agree. The CTS is a fantastic looking car, as is the XLR. Something about the XLR screams hardcore sex appeal.

I test drove a CTS this morning for shits and giggles and was quite impressed. It felt solid, well put together, and the engine has enough grunt to keep me happy. The best part is that you don't see the CTS everywhere, and it's styling does have impact.

I'd get one for sure if I was in the market for this kind of vehicle.

[treg50]

Originally posted by Inzane

Oh, I did.

Really? Well from the "language you used" it didn't seem like you did, because you still sound completely ignorant of what the author said.

Originally posted by Inzane
No, the language you used in your previous post suggested you're totally convinced based on reading that one article.

Why don't you at least wait for some consensus in the automotive press, or until you've driven the car for yourself in the context of directly comparing it with its competitors, before you decide that "that's all changed".

Yep, sure sounds like it has based on that one journalist's opinion. Hmmm...
:rolleyes: LOL that journalist actually had a very unbiased opinion.

But as we can tell, you think that the very idea of a North American car actually providing some competition to the imports is a preposterous idea and a person is 'flipped' for thinking so. That's a pretty severe bias you got there.

Also, I'm totally convinced about what? My "language" that I used was "Good article. Quite the eye-opener --- so much so that I think I'll give the CTS a test drive. It's good to know I have more options out there for my money. Yup, I'm 'totally convinced' that I would consider the CTS as an option for me in this class.

As far as consensus goes, if you like to follow what everyone says, I don't. Consensus is nice, but I don't like to wait for everyone to catch on to something that's actually good before I look into it myself.

[bspot]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Lots of cool american cars out there, the fit and finish still just isnt up to par with their competitors.

Have you been in a new CTS?

I've driven the last generation several times, and had the new version in my possession for a couple days. The fit and finish of this newest generation blows away anything else I've ever seen by GM. I was shocked at how big of a leap they made. It's not just better than the old ones, it's actually very very good.

Check one out, you might be surprised ;)

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by bspot


Have you been in a new CTS?

I've driven the last generation several times, and had the new version in my possession for a couple days. The fit and finish of this newest generation blows away anything else I've ever seen by GM. I was shocked at how big of a leap they made. It's not just better than the old ones, it's actually very very good.

Check one out, you might be surprised ;)
:werd:
Plus cts-v :drool:

[Inzane]

Originally posted by treg50
Also, I'm totally convinced about what? My "language" that I used was "Good article. Quite the eye-opener --- so much so that I think I'll give the CTS a test drive. It's good to know I have more options out there for my money."[/i] Yup, I'm 'totally convinced' that I would consider the CTS as an option for me in this class.

You missed the part of your quote I was referring to. Below vvv


I used to think Cadillacs meant bad mileage, gaudy interior, and floaty handling buuuut it looks like that's all changed... this isn't the Cadillac I used to know

Sounds like you completely bought into what the guy has said.

How do YOU know that's all changed. How do YOU know the CTS isn't the Cadillac you used to know? Because HE said so? :dunno:



As far as consensus goes, if you like to follow what everyone says, I don't.

You missed my point. I didn't mean consensus of what people buy. I mean a consensus of reviews. You seem convinced this a great car based on ONE automotive journalist's opinion. Why not wait for a few more data points? That's all....

[HIDStop]

I have also driven both the current and last generation CTS - and yes, GM has definately taken a huge jump in quality, fit & finish.

The direct injection version of the vehicle has enough pep to keep most drivers happy, and has more than enough power for merging and passing on the highway. It definitely doesn't have that 'put you in your seat, and put a smile on your face' power - but being a NA V6, you shouldn't go into the car expecting that.

I believe it has a 25/75 front/rear power split at most times, until any sort of slip is detected - whereby it transfers more power to the front wheels. I cant confirm this, but the car has a very nice road feel and drive.

The seats are super comfortable, and the dash is well laid out - with good finish materials. The individual climate controls on each side of the centre console are a neat touch (I believe it was climate controls - I cant quite remember now).

I am a huge fan of the front end of the car - absolutely gorgeous (with the DI option, foglights, chrome trim etc.).
From the front fenders to the back of the car - it looks beautiful when moving, though when looking at the car still, I feel like it lacking something. Still a great looking car, none the less.

What got me interested in the car - was first experiencing some friends new GM trucks (LTZ models) and a Buick Rendezvous. The interiors of these cars are stunning - and I am very happy to see that carried on throughout the GM line.
I used to be a import fanboy, but with first hand experience with new GM products - I am a convert! :D

[Mitsu3000gt]

I agree that the Caddy's are better than before, but in my opinioin they still have a ways to go. Also I have no idea why everyone loves the Malibu so much, sitting in it at the car show, I'd of guessed the price tag to be $25,000 max.

I found this line interesting:

"If there's a hiccup in the system it's that BMW's autobox will allow manual downshifts within 500 rpms of redline, whereas the GM transmission would balk if the rev range was too high. How often do you find yourself at the racetrack with your CTS, though?"

A LOT of people track their BMW's, and the article suggests you wouldn't want to take your CTS to a racetrack. I found that to be interesting if the cars are indeed such close competitors. Just the writer's opinion, I guess.

I also found it interesting that the fuel economy is about the same, but the 335i has 2 turbos, and a substantial torque advantage.

I've driven the 540/535/545/550/M5 (535xi around race city) as well as the caddy and in my opinon the CTS doesn't compare in power or build quality to the 535. I'm sure the CTS-V, however, has plenty of power and would be a fun drive. I still feel as though they've taken too much from the cobalt parts bin (fit and finish, feel of controls, etc.) and that it costs half as much to build a CTS as compared to a 5 series or similar. Also caddy's have a history of depreciating mighty fast, but the CTS probably will hold its value better than the big caddys like the STS (kindof like how the BMW 3 and 5 series hold their value better than the 7 series). I think the new G35 S is a much better comparison to the caddy (similar size, both N/A ~300HP V6), and I still personally prefer the G35. Based on my personal experience, I would definitely say the 535 is $15,000 more car.

All that said, GM is definitely going in the right direction with their new vehicles. They are ahead of all the other American manufactuers IMO. Hyundai is another manufactuer that is REALLY stepping it up lately, so much so that I would equate some of what they make with the Japanese based on what I saw at the car show.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
"If there's a hiccup in the system it's that BMW's autobox will allow manual downshifts within 500 rpms of redline, whereas the GM transmission would balk if the rev range was too high. How often do you find yourself at the racetrack with your CTS, though?"

A LOT of people track their BMW's, and the article suggests you wouldn't want to take your CTS to a racetrack. I found that to be interesting if the cars are indeed such close competitors. Just the writer's opinion, I guess.

Why would you be downshifting within 500rpms of redline? You're just going to break something. I have yet to see a BMW at racecity, I know that might not be the case elsewhere, but it is here in Calgary. I haven't seen any Cadi's at the track either, other than the supercharged Escalade.


I also found it interesting that the fuel economy is about the same, but the 335i has 2 turbos, and a substantial torque advantage.

EPA means nothing, you aren't boosting, you aren't eating gas, you aren't making any power.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Eleanor


Why would you be downshifting within 500rpms of redline? You're just going to break something. I have yet to see a BMW at racecity, I know that might not be the case elsewhere, but it is here in Calgary. I haven't seen any Cadi's at the track either, other than the supercharged Escalade.


Yeah I know nobody would downshift 500rpm from redline, I was more pointing out that the author keeps saying how well it compares to the BMW, then goes on to say nobody would want to take it on a race track. I just found that amusing, thats all. I don't mean to say the caddy is not capable on the track, I just found it interesting for the author to make a statement so contrary to the message he was trying to get across. As for the BMW's at race city, the last time I was at race city for one of those sports car days, half or more of the cars there were BMW's, including regular 5 series' and some quite old BMW's. Lots of people track them. Even if you take BMW's driving school, many programs require you to use your own BMW. They are definitely one of the most track-worthy "regular" cars that you can buy. Also BMW hosts driving events at race city on a regular basis; that is how I got to take a 535xi on the track and compare it back to back with all relevant competition.