Tom Ford from Top Gear comments on the m3 vs. isf vs. c63. vs rs4 comparison

[Redlyne_mr2]

The way these cars operate and handle makes you want to Frankenstein the ultimate super-saloon from various bits because, though all are brilliant, none is perfect.

So who wins?

Well, after much deliberation, endless circular conversation and several pints of strong cider, the answer is: nobody. There is no ‘best’ in this group. I’ve tried to isolate a winner, but it just can’t be done. Each has strengths and weaknesses, some that you’d be prepared to live with more than others, but they’re not necessarily deal-breakers.

For me it goes like this: I want a C63 to play with, because it makes me feel like a 17-year-old, but it’d tire me out if I drove it everyday. I want an RS4 day-to-day, but think I’d hanker after something more throttle-adjustable now and again. The M3 is the best all-rounder, but I’m not really into the M3 image and ubiquity.

So there’s the Lexus. Brilliant, exciting, slightly mad Lexus. It’s flawed. It’s not for the hardcore among us. But for some reason I’m drawn to it. Drawn to the technology, drawn to the fact there’ll only be 150 in the UK per year. Drawn to its oddness.

Somethint to think about if you're in the market for any of these cars.
http://thepassionatepursuit.com/images/weblog/08-04-20-lexus-is-f-vs-bmw-m3-vs-mercedes-c63-vs-audi-rs4.jpg

[Xtrema]

So he picked it because it's rare and ODD? :dunno:

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Xtrema
So he picked it because it's rare and ODD? :dunno: sounds like he should be on beyond.

edit: wait, isn't tom ford on fifth gear?

[5hift]

sounds like someone pushing his product

[tentacles]

I want a C63 to play with, because it makes me feel like a 17-year-old, but it’d tire me out if I drove it everyday.

A Mercedes with a slushbox would tire him out if he drove it everyday? :rolleyes:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by gpomp
sounds like he should be on beyond.

edit: wait, isn't tom ford on fifth gear?
He writes for Top Gear magazine, Im not sure if hes still on fifth gear.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Xtrema
So he picked it because it's rare and ODD? :dunno: Yeah, kinda like when kids here pick Lancers and Accents because Civics are too common. :rofl: And ironically, though they may be rare in the UK, they're supposed to sell more than 5000/year in North America.

And realistically, the Lexus isn't that distinctive, it's not fast in a straight line, it's not fast through corners, it doesn't have AWD, it's autotragic, the quad exhaust isn't functional, and it doesn't really look great...

The only thing I really like about the IS F is the fact that it represents Toyota trying to put a bit of performance back into their line up.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by tentacles


A Mercedes with a slushbox would tire him out if he drove it everyday? :rolleyes:

Ever driven a car with that much low end torque in traffic? I'm going to guess not.

[Fuji]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Yeah, kinda like when kids here pick Lancers and Accents because Civics are too common. :rofl: And ironically, though they may be rare in the UK, they're supposed to sell more than 5000/year in North America.

And realistically, the Lexus isn't that distinctive, it's not fast in a straight line, it's not fast through corners, it doesn't have AWD, it's autotragic, the quad exhaust isn't functional, and it doesn't really look great...

The only thing I really like about the IS F is the fact that it represents Toyota trying to put a bit of performance back into their line up.


Have you driven one ? Everyone who has driven one and saw it in person has said the contrary. At least thats what i hear. It does definitely look better in person.

At the end of the day any of theses are good

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by 5hift
sounds like someone pushing his product

LOL, every post by redlyne is check out this awesome lexus :rofl:

[Fuji]

Originally posted by Eleanor


LOL, every post by redlyne is check out this awesome lexus :rofl:
well that IS his job lol

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Fuji

well that IS his job lol

Doesn't he need to pay to be a sponsor? :D

[Fuji]

Originally posted by Eleanor


Doesn't he need to pay to be a sponsor? :D

He never actually said come to lexus and buy this car. he just posted some article on opinions on the car.

[IScarecroW300]

The IS-F is my no means slow, its right up there with the M3. The C63 is faster than them both in a straight line. The auto in the F is really fast. I cant even tell its shifting. It shifts faster than you could ever dream of shifting manually. The gearing is great as well. I haven't found a single thing I dont like about mine other than the gas milage. The quad exhausts dont connect to the rear tips, big deal. There are quite a few cars out there worth a lot more than mine which share the same characteristic. There are still 4 exhaust tips behind the bumper. Also, neither the M3 or the C63 are AWD, so whats your point.


For me personally, there all great cars and no car is #1 of the 3. All those tests, the cars are being driven at there limits and no where in calgary are you going to even come close to that. Straight line performance is all you might use, but 3 will get you in trouble really fast. In the end, it will come down to you.

[dino_martini]

The IS-F is probably the one I would choose. Its the first Lexus I like. In Blue with the light colored interior...its amazing.

[JAYMEZ]

Tuff choice , I like all of em... but at my age , I would probably go with the Merc.

And Redlyne can do what he wants :rofl:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Eleanor


LOL, every post by redlyne is check out this awesome lexus :rofl:

I posted this article because I felt it wasn't biased towards Lexus, I hate biased articles. I mean the begining of the article starts with "there is no best". I love m3's, I love anything AMG (except the G's, ML's, and R's), not a fan of the RS4 but that's beside the point. I just thought it was an interesting view and I know many people appreciate the Top Gear opinions which is why I posted it. I have lots of Lexus propaganda I could post from work if you really want to see some one sided material. :)

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Fuji



Have you driven one ? Everyone who has driven one and saw it in person has said the contrary. At least thats what i hear. It does definitely look better in person.

At the end of the day any of theses are good


LOL no I haven't driven one. I'm not in the market for a car like that at all, nor could I afford one right now, so I'm not gonna go waste their time test driving it just so my webbernet opinion holds a bit more substance.

But I have seen and sat in one in person, the blue one whored around the auto shows. It's looks alright, but it's not jaw dropping like the M3, not stupid fast like the Merc, nor practical like the RS4. I do like what it means about Toyota finally wanting to make sporty cars again.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Xtrema
So he picked it because it's rare and ODD? :dunno:

I was going to say... he didnt pick the m3 because of how it... looks? I think it looks gorgeous and looks is all a persons own perspective. Thats like saying "The veyron is shit because it looks funny" :rolleyes:

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2


I posted this article because I felt it wasn't biased towards Lexus, I hate biased articles. I mean the begining of the article starts with "there is no best". I love m3's, I love anything AMG (except the G's, ML's, and R's), not a fan of the RS4 but that's beside the point. I just thought it was an interesting view and I know many people appreciate the Top Gear opinions which is why I posted it. I have lots of Lexus propaganda I could post from work if you really want to see some one sided material. :)

I know, all in good fun. :angel:

[SilverRex]

if you care about image I'll take the M3
if you care about realibility and resale I'll take the ISF
if you care about numbers, HP and raw power I'll take the C63
if you dont want the added attention then get the RS4

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by SilverRex
if you care about image I'll take the M3
if you care about realibility and resale I'll take the ISF
if you care about numbers, HP and raw power I'll take the C63
if you dont want the added attention then get the RS4
:werd:
You should be an automotive journalist, it's such a simple concept yet none of the magazines seem to be able to comprehend that.

[Fuji]

Originally posted by SilverRex
if you care about image I'll take the M3
if you care about realibility and resale I'll take the ISF
if you care about numbers, HP and raw power I'll take the C63
if you dont want the added attention then get the RS4


I'd agree with you except on the RS4 - you can spot that thing a mile away and it still gets a lot of attention - it's prob abou the same as the c63, isf in terms of that.

at the end of the day they are all so close for 98% of any driver that you're really splitting hairs and personal preference here.

[treg50]

Originally posted by SilverRex
if you care about image I'll take the M3
if you care about realibility and resale I'll take the ISF
if you care about numbers, HP and raw power I'll take the C63
if you dont want the added attention then get the RS4
BMW = image? What image would that be? :rofl:

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by treg50

BMW = image? What image would that be? :rofl:

rhymes with... ooshbag?

[x.staygold.x]

i would take the audi RS4

[Kloubek]

Disagree with that Fuji. The RS4 is by far the most tame looking car in the lineup. People who don't know what it is would never suspect it has the kind of peformance it does.


Originally posted by Fuji

I'd agree with you except on the RS4 - you can spot that thing a mile away.



I'd take any of them. Probably the Benz if I really was given a choice. But the Audi would be a very close second.

[bspot]

In an ideal world I'd be rich enough that the RS4 would be my winter beater and I'd have something better than all of those.

Realistically I'll be lucky if I can afford any of those. I really wish the C63 had some different transmission options and I'd be all over it.

Living in Calgary though, if you are only going to own one car, RS4 is by far the best winter car out of all of those.

[JGerke]

would really prefer the C63 but the auto only option really kills that...are there any manual trannys available aftermarket or oem for that car or even the C55 anywhere in the world? anything that might mate up?

[nookmumracing]

Originally posted by SilverRex
if you care about image I'll take the M3
if you care about realibility and resale I'll take the ISF
if you care about numbers, HP and raw power I'll take the C63
if you dont want the added attention then get the RS4

When it gets down to this money bracket, any of those cars are great cars. You will always find something that you like or dislike about each ride I'm a huge Yota Lexus junkie because I worked around them and been around them and seen how reliable they are. Thats a higher priority on my list over power or straight line times..... but I'll stick with good old VW 1.8T Jetta for now, has been a great reliable car as well....Knock knock on wood....

[rage2]

I don't get why people still want a manual transmission these days. I've driven and owned 'em all... SMG, DSG, good paddle shifting autos, Manual. I would never ever go for a manual tranny anymore. Way more fun in semi-autos. Better control of the car. And a billion times better clutch life. I swapped my M3 clutch with 40,000km on it, and it literally looks like there's only been 20% wear on it. People have been getting 160,000km's on M3 SMG's before needing a clutch job, and it's the exact same clutch/tranny as the manual.

Manual trannys... so 1990's lol!

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by rage2
I don't get why people still want a manual transmission these days. I've driven and owned 'em all... SMG, DSG, good paddle shifting autos, Manual. I would never ever go for a manual tranny anymore. Way more fun in semi-autos. Better control of the car. And a billion times better clutch life. I swapped my M3 clutch with 40,000km on it, and it literally looks like there's only been 20% wear on it. People have been getting 160,000km's on M3 SMG's before needing a clutch job, and it's the exact same clutch/tranny as the manual.

Manual trannys... so 1990's lol!

lol

I know i do not speak for everyone, I use to think auto was the easier way out until I realize one day I just couldnt live with one since some reason I tend to fall asleep driving automatic. Not good.

Now I can only imagine the semi-auto or ones with paddle shift would be just about right. And it's a great pitching tool to convince my wife we need one that has paddle shift so that she can drive it too.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by rage2
I don't get why people still want a manual transmission these days. I've driven and owned 'em all... SMG, DSG, good paddle shifting autos, Manual. I would never ever go for a manual tranny anymore. Way more fun in semi-autos. Better control of the car. And a billion times better clutch life. I swapped my M3 clutch with 40,000km on it, and it literally looks like there's only been 20% wear on it. People have been getting 160,000km's on M3 SMG's before needing a clutch job, and it's the exact same clutch/tranny as the manual.

Manual trannys... so 1990's lol!
I agree with what you're saying manual trannies are a thing of the past however I just find them to be much more enjoyable. The SMG, the 8 speed Lexus trannies, the DSG's, theyre fine and they work great but theyre not exciting.

30 years from now Im going to be that old dude going into a Porsche dealer to buy a car and paying the $5000 premium to get the optional manual transmission. Theyre going to have to factory order it and it's going to take 4 months to arrive.

I find auto's to be soo lazy..

[Inzane]

Originally posted by rage2
I don't get why people still want a manual transmission these days.

I would never ever go for a manual tranny anymore.

???? :dunno:

You better check with your Pharmacist Rage, I think your prescription's run out again. :nut:


Anyway, back on topic my pick of the four would still have to be the M3.