Audi S4 moving from V8 to supercharge V6 in 2010

[SilverRex]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/2010_audi_s4_to_get_supercharged_v6_updated_with_mileage_estimates_car_news

So because of fuel economy as you say but really. do you guys think the main reason is to compete with all the other V6 out there in its class?

And I'm guessing this move would lower their S4 price as well in order to compete?

[heavyD]

I don't get it. If you can afford an S4 you can afford gasoline at any price and I'm sure that when you are spending that kind of money fuel economy is at the bottom of the list of priorities. Tree huggers drive smart cars not S4's.

[R-Audi]

Dissapointing... most were hoping for a rebirth of the potent 2.7T powerplant...

[treg50]

20% gain in fuel efficiency! That's awesome :eek:

I like the S4 and trees and I wouldn't spend more on gas if I didn't have to.

[benyl]

Originally posted by heavyD
I don't get it. If you can afford an S4 you can afford gasoline at any price and I'm sure that when you are spending that kind of money fuel economy is at the bottom of the list of priorities. Tree huggers drive smart cars not S4's.

It has nothing to do with the customers. It has everything to do with the new CAFE regulations. All companies have new targets to meet for lower consumption.

FI cars use less fuel during EPA tests because the car hardly ever goes into boost.

This CAFE shit is so bad, that there are rumours that BMW is monitoring their cars for mods, not for warranty purposes, but for emission violations.

[treg50]

Originally posted by benyl
This CAFE shit is so bad, that there are rumours that BMW is monitoring their cars for mods, not for warranty purposes, but for emission violations.
Weird, why would BMW care about enforcing the law on it's customers? Unless of course that's a new requirement that's been put upon the manufacturers.

[Xtrema]

BMW also hinted M series will go toward I6 turbo route.

It's inevitable.

[benyl]

Originally posted by treg50

Weird, why would BMW care about enforcing the law on it's customers? Unless of course that's a new requirement that's been put upon the manufacturers.

Liability.

It is the same reason why you need to change your cluster when importing a BMW. They have to make sure you can never turn off your Daytime running lights.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by treg50
20% gain in fuel efficiency! That's awesome :eek:

I like the S4 and trees and I wouldn't spend more on gas if I didn't have to.

You know what... I like trees too, and that's why I drive cars with internal combustion engines. So I can provide trees everywhere with lots of CO2, which they need for photosynthesis.

There, I'm doing my part! :thumbsup:

[bspot]

Well I sort of hope it will end up being twincharged like they suggest. After driving a supercharged car, it's fun and all, but the power band is a little to Honda-ish. You really need to keep your revs up there. Not an issue at all with the current v8.

If it's twincharged it will have good low end still, but tuning will be more difficult.

Either way, the new S4 will be much more tuneable than the current one, and there should be some rockets around shortly after they come out.

[Redlyne_mr2]

I like seeing small displacement FI engines making a resurgance. NA V8 cars are nice but I love boost, I find it to much more fun to drive.

[nd54]

So it has worse fuel economy and performance than the BMW 335i, but it will cost more? Since when has Audi had that kind of brand power?

[obliterate8]

Originally posted by heavyD
I don't get it. If you can afford an S4 you can afford gasoline at any price and I'm sure that when you are spending that kind of money fuel economy is at the bottom of the list of priorities. Tree huggers drive smart cars not S4's.
Not true. I had to sell my S4 simply because I could not afford to drive it daily and I wanted to. Some people buy the cars because they are so passionate towards them, others because they have money and just want status, just 'cause you have it doesn't mean you can fully afford it :(

[gpomp]

Originally posted by nd54
So it has worse fuel economy and performance than the BMW 335i, but it will cost more? Since when has Audi had that kind of brand power? the RS4 is $95k, the M3 is $70k... i dunno what audi is up to

[heavyD]

Originally posted by obliterate8

Not true. I had to sell my S4 simply because I could not afford to drive it daily and I wanted to. Some people buy the cars because they are so passionate towards them, others because they have money and just want status, just 'cause you have it doesn't mean you can fully afford it :(

If you can't afford it you never really had it. I like trees but I'm not retarded. I know it really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things how much my car pollutes.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Xtrema
BMW also hinted M series will go toward I6 turbo route.

It's inevitable.

I've owned at least 6 cars from different manufacturers with turbocharged I4 engines and have never got gas mileage as good as a medium size V6 engine. Manufacturers can make the emissions & fuel economy numbers look great on paper with a turbo engine but really most north americans don't drive at part throttle all the time and as soon as you step on the gas on a turbo I4 mileage & emissions go out the window.

[mikestypes]

Turbocharged and Supercharged engines require a higher BSFC than an NA engine. In order to make the same hp numbers, FI engines actually get WORSE mileage. However, since EPA fuel economy testing never actually gets the engine into boost, they look better on paper. It is just yet another clue showing that published fuel economy numbers are a joke when compared to real life.

Full throttle testing should be a mandatory part of fuel economy testing.

[Fuji]

Originally posted by gpomp
the RS4 is $95k, the M3 is $70k... i dunno what audi is up to


RS4 is not in production anymore and they are about 85K base if you can get your hands on one (there's a non-advertised MSRP discount). Well at least that was the case in Feb..

[treg50]

Originally posted by heavyD
If you can't afford it you never really had it. I like trees but I'm not retarded. I know it really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things how much my car pollutes.
lol wow why so jaded and pessimistic? I know you want to get into an argument, about why you think things are unchangeable and one car doesn't matter, I don't. I think things can change and it starts on the individual level.

Currently I'm sure hundreds of thousands if not millions of people think just like you --- saying it doesn't matter how much my car pollutes? When consider your car with those hundreds of thousands of others cars how can the pollution from hundreds of thousands of cars not matter?

It's because of old/stuck-in-their-ways mentalities like that, that the overall scheme of things might look like it can't be changed or that it's bleak. Change that mentality and things can look better. You're responsible for your own decisions, if you decide to make your world less healthy there's no one to blame but yourself. The fact is that you (by that I mean everyone) can still do your part.

[benyl]

Originally posted by heavyD


I've owned at least 6 cars from different manufacturers with turbocharged I4 engines and have never got gas mileage as good as a medium size V6 engine. Manufacturers can make the emissions & fuel economy numbers look great on paper with a turbo engine but really most north americans don't drive at part throttle all the time and as soon as you step on the gas on a turbo I4 mileage & emissions go out the window.

A 4 banger is different as to get any power it is producing boost. Even at part throttle, there is usually positive manifold pressure. With a 6, not so much.

The 335 gets way better mileage than the STi and produces the same power on paper as an example.

[dimi]

Originally posted by benyl

The 335 gets way better mileage than the STi and produces the same power on paper as an example.

I can't comment on an Sti since I haven't driven one, but when I drive the 335xi cruising @ 80 km/h it gives me 8.0L/100km, cruise control turned on. As soon as I come to a stop and have to get the car going again at a reasonable rate that number jumps to 12-14. When I floor it, it gets very bad. Over the last tank it averaged 13.5L/100km and it was never taken over 4000 rpm so I don't get why you claim it is so efficient. Some of this might be due to the fact that it is still in the break in period. Its more efficient than its competition but not by much. I think a better choice for us would have been a 330xi if they still made that.

[benyl]

I get 16L/100 km in the STi as a daily driver.

I get 11.9L/100km in the 335 as a daily driver. The 335 has 6000kms on it. It used 13L/100km for the first 1500kms.

[dimi]

Originally posted by benyl
I get 16L/100 km in the STi as a daily driver.

I get 11.9L/100km in the 335 as a daily driver. The 335 has 6000kms on it. It used 13L/100km for the first 1500kms.

Yes but from what I have read in other threads your sti is far from stock.

Either way lets hope the fuel economy gets better with time.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by treg50
It's because of old/stuck-in-their-ways mentalities like that, that the overall scheme of things might look like it can't be changed or that it's bleak. Change that mentality and things can look better. You're responsible for your own decisions, if you decide to make your world less healthy there's no one to blame but yourself. The fact is that you (by that I mean everyone) can still do your part.

I'm certainly not blaming myself for the situations on this planet. I blame governments and corporations for that. I recycle and do my part I just don't believe that the car I drive really makes a difference outside of owning a major gass guzzler like a Hummer or Expedition, etc.

You must be young and full of piss and vinegar thinking you can actually make a difference. Once you get to middle age (or close like me) you tend to realize that what you or 100 or 1000 people do really doesn't matter. Rich folks driving Porsche Cayenne's and Hummers to their government or executive jobs are making the decisions that alter climate, not me. Greed is destroying the earth and IMO since it's inherent in all humans there's no way to reverse the trends.

[bspot]

Originally posted by Fuji



RS4 is not in production anymore and they are about 85K base if you can get your hands on one (there's a non-advertised MSRP discount). Well at least that was the case in Feb..

The last RS4 that Glemore Audi had was listed at $105,000. Pretty sure they didn't let that sucker go for much less than $100K if at all.



Originally posted by benyl
I get 16L/100 km in the STi as a daily driver.

I get 11.9L/100km in the 335 as a daily driver. The 335 has 6000kms on it. It used 13L/100km for the first 1500kms.

That right there proves why the S4 has to change. The 335 is faster, cheaper, and MUCH better on gas. As soon as you drive in heavy traffic with the current S4, your fuel economy goes to hell. I've hit almost 19L/100km from downtown to RockyRidge before, and a good 80% of that drive is on Crowchild cruising at 100.

On the way to work, coming in when there is no traffic I've hit as low as 12.1L/100km, but that is really really rare, and about the best it ever gets.. including highway.

I know it's not in the same category at all, but the Cobalt SS got me 9.6L/100km consistently, driving it with the throttle open quite a bit, and in heavy traffic. Really good economy for it's performance level proving superchargers can be decent in this department.