how to control ignition timing on a boosted honda?

[forced_eg]

i have a honda civic w/a b16, 450bluetops, pump and regulator, msd SCI ignition, boosting 7psi

bad thing is im using vafc2 to control my fuel, but what about ignition?? im suspecting slight pre-ignition at higher rpms, what can i do (base timing is stock)

[Primer_Drift]

Why not run a chipped ecu?

[forced_eg]

i will eventually, i wanted to start with vafc because i wanted to get the basics of tuning, plus i dont have a laptop!! big mistake

[JRSC00LUDE]

You don't require a laptop, it just makes it a bit more convenient.

If you just run uberdata on a chipped ecu, you'll find that it's very easy to work with and you will learn quickly. I think it's a better way to learn the basics of tuning than with a vafc. Also, a chip reader/burner is only about 60 or 80 bucks so you could realistically be tuning your own stuff for 300bucks or less.

That's how I've been fiddling with mine for the last two seasons (although initially it was tuned and tinkered with by Rage2). I think it's a good and easy way to learn, and then later you can make the jump to something a bit more technical like S300 or whatever once you've got the fundamentals down.

[forced_eg]

is there a way i can retard my ignition timing itself??

and... is the target (safe) afr for boost, 13.0:1?? i want to run methanol and crank up the boost

[Primer_Drift]

You don't need a laptop to start tuning with a chipped ecu, but it helps.

I'm guessing you don't have ANY datalogging capability right now? Are you running a wideband?

There are a few people here on beyond that can get you started with a decent basemap with a chipped ecu. Without proper dyno tuning you are running the risk of destroying that B16.. it's easy to do, trust me.

[rage2]

If you're running stock timing and 13:1 AFR, you're going to blow that shit up fairly quickly.

You'd want to target 12:1 AFR and 17-20 degrees of total timing at max boost. You don't want to run any lower than 17 degrees except for maybe a really small window at torque peak, otherwise say bye bye to your exhaust valves.

[Mr_ET]

Yeah with the money you've put into turbocharging the car and getting a b16 why not spend a bit more and make sure the engine is running safe.

the vafc is not a good starting point and timing is very important on a Honda engine if you want it to last.

My guess is you don't have a wideband either right?

also for boost 13:1 is marginal and will make the car run lean when it's cold outside. I would target 12:1, you will lose power but it will run safer.

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by forced_eg
is there a way i can retard my ignition timing itself??

and... is the target (safe) afr for boost, 13.0:1?? i want to run methanol and crank up the boost

Closer to 11 is safer.

More important in this case is controlling afr, exhaust temp and knock as a result of the ignition timing. Adding fuel is not necessarily safer, because AFR is dependant on timing as well.

[forced_eg]

i do have an autometer wideband system on there, no dataloging,

would a laptop allow me to make changes on the fly? or do i have to change, burn, check? i screw around with tuning out in strathmore so i dont wanna run back home to make changes...
(wanna get familiar with it before i rent dyno time)
who makes datalogging systems??

i guess the best bet would be to run uberdata eh? i dont know where to start with that, i have a p30 in there right now and havent heard the best about crome... ill need a chipped p28? chip reader and burner, what else??

edit* the b16 bottom end was sort of sacrificial... i have a 94 integra front clip sitting in my garage, i want to run a fully built b18b-T, non-vtec or ls-vtec-T, setup but hopefully i dont do any damage to the b16 head

[JRSC00LUDE]

^

I would replace that autometer with something better. PLX Devices/Innovate/AEM UEGO in that order imo.

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by forced_eg
i do have an autometer wideband system on there, no dataloging,

would a laptop allow me to make changes on the fly? or do i have to change, burn, check? i screw around with tuning out in strathmore so i dont wanna run back home to make changes...
(wanna get familiar with it before i rent dyno time)
who makes datalogging systems??

i guess the best bet would be to run uberdata eh? i dont know where to start with that, i have a p30 in there right now and havent heard the best about crome... ill need a chipped p28? chip reader and burner, what else??


There are options for on the fly tuning, most notably Moates ostriche II (eCTune), and Neptune RTP. In the event you do not have a laptop, there are widebands that come with a logger, like the Innovate LM-1.
If you have a laptop at your disposal the data logging options are endless..

Neptune is the newest, uberdata is a bit dated but still widely used, and Crome is what I like for very simple tuning.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by forced_eg
i have a honda civic w/a b16, 450bluetops, pump and regulator, msd SCI ignition, boosting 7psi

bad thing is im using vafc2 to control my fuel, but what about ignition?? im suspecting slight pre-ignition at higher rpms, what can i do (base timing is stock) msd btm. http://www.msdignition.com/tc_18.htm
retards up to 3 degrees of timing per pound of boost.

but chipped ecu > ghetto shit

[92gsr]

crome > uberdata, fuck hondata they are douchebags, go blundar.

[rc2002]

Crome has a much better GUI that is more intuitive and less finicky. But unless you buy the registered version, you miss out on a lot of functionality - can't change rpm points, no datalogging, etc. Uberdata gives you all that functionality for free but it's got a lot of bugs and is cumbersome to use.

Hondata has some questionable business practices - they shut down pgmfi with a BS lawsuit. But their product is better quality than the rest. You get what you pay for.

[92gsr]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Crome has a much better GUI that is more intuitive and less finicky. But unless you buy the registered version, you miss out on a lot of functionality - can't change rpm points, no datalogging, etc. Uberdata gives you all that functionality for free but it's got a lot of bugs and is cumbersome to use.

Hondata has some questionable business practices - they shut down pgmfi with a BS lawsuit. But their product is better quality than the rest. You get what you pay for.
If you are going to spend some money I would much rather run ecutune or neptune over hondata.

[Perceptionist]

I use eCtune and have no complaints so far. It's got a ton of features to play around with if that's what you're looking for.

As for ignition timing, do you guys add timing to the entire map when looking at the power curve on a dyno or just in select places?

[. o 69 o .]

if you are set on using the VAFC for a while, look up "VAFC hack" on Honda-Tech in the forced induction section archives.

I remember reading that stuff a few yrs ago before custom tuning was available. It will work if properly set-up