Strathmore Investment/Development Opportunity

[ZorroAMG]

Fellow Beyonders/Investors/Real Estate tycoons/E-Ballers!

I have been posting a bit about our development in Strathmore in that Fort McMoney2 thread and some RRSP threads lately and thought I'd finally offer up the whole information to those of you looking for a serious return investment opportunity.

I have generated a lot of interest already from a few of you on here and one of your beloved mods has already invested. Here are the main points summarizing our development.

------ We (Cancorp Property Group, www.cancorppropertygroup.com) have 226 acres of land in Strathmore, Alberta, located 40 km east of Calgary. We bought the land 2 years ago and will have the development permits this July, where we will be breaking ground immediately afterwards. This is the last quality piece of land to be developed in the town limits.

------ We are raising $19.5 Million ($9 million already raised since January '08) to service phase one into 462 lots to sell to the builders eager to get into Strathmore. It has a population of 13,000 with infrastructure for 40,000 including a full hospital and many bigger city amenities minus the negatives.

Here is the site plan:

http://web.mac.com/markghanime/WildflowerRanch/overview_files/Strathmore.jpg


Here is the current aerial photo of the actual land. The space next to our site is the golf course:

http://web.mac.com/markghanime/WildflowerRanch/overview_files/droppedImage.jpg

------ The 19.5 Million is being raised through a syndication of private investors (you). Minimum investment is $10,010; A $10,000 rsp eligible, land secured 5yr bond at 8% and $10 in shares of the development totalling 35% of the profit. Total return is conservatively projected at 27%/yr or it's also broken down as follows:

$10,010 investment will net you $23,758 total, including initial investment. This is a %137 ROI over 5yrs including the 8%/yr returning bond. Again, an annual rate of return of 27%

------ There are 3 ways to invest:

1. Transfer existing rsp's to our bond. This way there is no major cash drain and it's the easiest way to begin investing

2. Make a new rsp contribution.

3. Cash investment. This is the best way if you want your return AND initial investment to be accessible for future investing


TAX BENEFIT

This investment also has a tax benefit as the shares are taxed as a dividend income at a top marginal rate of 14.6% instead of your standard income bracket.

TIME FRAME

We are syndicating Phase 1 and although the bond maturity date is 5yrs, we are in the ground this summer and are more realistically looking at a 2-3yr term.

DEADLINE FOR INVESTMENT

Obviously this is a pressure-free opportunity, the only deadline being once we've raised the full 19.5 Million, the opportunity is closed. That is for Phase 1. I would not recommend waiting for Phase 2 if you have the means to invest in the first as we may not even require additional funding to servive phase 2. We will be self sufficient with the revenue/profit generated from this current phase.

STRATHMORE

Sleeper communities are becoming much more desirable as Calgary grows and with all the new industrial development east of Calgary, many employment opportunities will present themselves. Strathmore is prime real estate for this influx and the builders recognize this. We haven't committed to the interested builders as we want to maximize the value of the land before selling to them. This is in the best interests of ours and the investors. It also allows us to plan how we release the lots as we do NOT want to flood the market. The community is working side by side with us to make this happen quickly, properly and efficiently as they are in NEED of lots and growth. Visit www.strathmore.ca for more info and to see what a great community it is shaping up to be!

FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES

Many of our investors have been following us from past projects and they continue to roll profits over and over. This is a perk we are offering as we always have new deals/developments in the works. Hassle free investing is what people have come to expect from us. Returns may vary from project to project but quality profitable developments have been our M.O. from day one.

PAST DEVELOPMENTS
Here are a few other residential developments we have done in Alberta that many of you will recognize:

Penhold Army Base Development near Red Deer
http://web.mac.com/markghanime/WildflowerRanch/past_projects_files/Springbrook.jpg

Paradyme Condos 15th Ave and 9th St. SW

http://gallery.mac.com/markghanime/100011/Paradyme/web.jpg

205 Riverfront condos in Eau Claire

http://gallery.mac.com/markghanime/100011/205-20Riverfront/web.jpg

For more details, again visit www.cancorppropertygroup.com where you will also find information on our company, all of our past projects and the principals involved.

If you have personal/private finances questions or need flexible investing methods, feel free to PM me.

[lint]

Fellow Beyonders/Investors/Real Estate tycoons/E-Ballers!

I have been posting a bit about our development in Strathmore in that Fort McMoney2 thread and some RRSP threads lately and thought I'd finally offer up the whole information to those of you looking for a serious return investment opportunity.

I have generated a lot of interest already from a few of you on here and one of your beloved mods has already invested. Here are the main points summarizing our development.

------ We (Cancorp Property Group, www.cancorppropertygroup.com) have 226 acres of land in Strathmore, Alberta, located 40 km east of Calgary. We bought the land 2 years ago and will have the development permits this July, where we will be breaking ground immediately afterwards. This is the last quality piece of land to be developed in the town limits.

------ We are raising $19.5 Million ($9 million already raised since January '08) to service phase one into 462 lots to sell to the builders eager to get into Strathmore. It has a population of 13,000 with infrastructure for 40,000 including a full hospital and many bigger city amenities minus the negatives.

Here is the site plan:

http://web.mac.com/markghanime/WildflowerRanch/overview_files/Strathmore.jpg


Here is the current aerial photo of the actual land. The space next to our site is the golf course:

http://web.mac.com/markghanime/WildflowerRanch/overview_files/droppedImage.jpg

------ The 19.5 Million is being raised through a syndication of private investors (you). Minimum investment is $10,010; A $10,000 rsp eligible, land secured 5yr bond at 8% and $10 in shares of the development totalling 35% of the profit. Total return is conservatively projected at 27%/yr or it's also broken down as follows:

$10,010 investment will net you $23,758 total, including initial investment. This is a %137 ROI over 5yrs including the 8%/yr returning bond. Again, an annual rate of return of 27%

------ There are 3 ways to invest:

1. Transfer existing rsp's to our bond. This way there is no major cash drain and it's the easiest way to begin investing

2. Make a new rsp contribution.

3. Cash investment. This is the best way if you want your return AND initial investment to be accessible for future investing


TAX BENEFIT

This investment also has a tax benefit as the shares are taxed as a dividend income at a top marginal rate of 14.6% instead of your standard income bracket.

TIME FRAME

We are syndicating Phase 1 and although the bond maturity date is 5yrs, we are in the ground this summer and are more realistically looking at a 2-3yr term.

DEADLINE FOR INVESTMENT

Obviously this is a pressure-free opportunity, the only deadline being once we've raised the full 19.5 Million, the opportunity is closed. That is for Phase 1. I would not recommend waiting for Phase 2 if you have the means to invest in the first as we may not even require additional funding to servive phase 2. We will be self sufficient with the revenue/profit generated from this current phase.

STRATHMORE

Sleeper communities are becoming much more desirable as Calgary grows and with all the new industrial development east of Calgary, many employment opportunities will present themselves. Strathmore is prime real estate for this influx and the builders recognize this. We haven't committed to the interested builders as we want to maximize the value of the land before selling to them. This is in the best interests of ours and the investors. It also allows us to plan how we release the lots as we do NOT want to flood the market. The community is working side by side with us to make this happen quickly, properly and efficiently as they are in NEED of lots and growth. Visit www.strathmore.ca for more info and to see what a great community it is shaping up to be!

FUTURE OPPORTUNITIES

Many of our investors have been following us from past projects and they continue to roll profits over and over. This is a perk we are offering as we always have new deals/developments in the works. Hassle free investing is what people have come to expect from us. Returns may vary from project to project but quality profitable developments have been our M.O. from day one.

PAST DEVELOPMENTS
Here are a few other residential developments we have done in Alberta that many of you will recognize:

Penhold Army Base Development near Red Deer
http://web.mac.com/markghanime/WildflowerRanch/past_projects_files/Springbrook.jpg

Paradyme Condos 15th Ave and 9th St. SW

http://gallery.mac.com/markghanime/100011/Paradyme/web.jpg

205 Riverfront condos in Eau Claire

http://gallery.mac.com/markghanime/100011/205-20Riverfront/web.jpg

For more details, again visit www.cancorppropertygroup.com where you will also find information on our company, all of our past projects and the principals involved.

If you have personal/private finances questions or need flexible investing methods, feel free to PM me.


I didn't see anything on the site regarding past projects except for pictures of buildings and locations. Any numbers on projected vs realized returns for past projects?

[Jlude]

Originally posted by lint
I didn't see anything on the site regarding past projects except for pictures of buildings and locations. Any numbers on projected vs realized returns for past projects?

+1

[ZorroAMG]

The developments in the past projects section have either been Cancorp-internal acquisition-hold-reno-re lease situations or bank financed/Joint Venture developments. These were not syndications with investors outside of Cancorp's principals and the banks and therefore the information on profit/return is not public information.

The past projects section does not exist for us disclose what those non-investor projects generated for returns, but merely to demonstrate the scope of work Cancorp has been involved in. We are no strangers to large developments, as shown in our Springbrook/Penhold/Red Deer development

These projects were all in the black, generated positive return and that's what Cancorp is focused on.

Thank you for the inquiries!

[blownz]

So why this method this time? If it was a good project the banks would lend you money at less than 27% would they not?

If Cancorp has a decent credit history they should be able to borrow without a personal guarantee (which seems to be what you are avoiding) for under 20%. Personal guarantee should drop it by half.

I just don't understand why this system. I was involved with a small 10mil project 2 years ago. And we had no money and the 3 owners did not want to provide personal guarantees and we were able to borrow at less than 15%. I know the rates have gone up to about 20% were we borrowed since then due to recent events but that would still seem like a better way to go. :dunno:

[Canmorite]

"Paradyme Condos 15th Ave and 9th St. SW"

I live very close to this place, and I've seen some units for sale inside of it. Super nice. I think Zorro had a place in there :bigpimp:

More info on the bonds if you have any. 8% paid semi? Annually?


Originally posted by blownz
So why this method this time? If it was a good project the banks would lend you money at less than 27% would they not?

If Cancorp has a decent credit history they should be able to borrow without a personal guarantee (which seems to be what you are avoiding) for under 20%. Personal guarantee should drop it by half.

I just don't understand why this system. I was involved with a small 10mil project 2 years ago. And we had no money and the 3 owners did not want to provide personal guarantees and we were able to borrow at less than 15%. I know the rates have gone up to about 20% were we borrowed since then due to recent events but that would still seem like a better way to go. :dunno:

If things go sour in the way your are suggesting, wouldn't Cancorp be responsible for all the money lost? If units are sold off to investors, I think less of the risk would lie on Cancorp's shoulders. If Cancorp could get a loan for less then ~20% they would most likely go that way, since their margins would be larger.

Correct me if i'm wrong Zorro...

[ZorroAMG]

Syndicating investment capital is becoming a new trend for growing development companies.

We are in GREAT standing with the banks and have borrowed from them in the past and will borrow in the future. At the moment, banks do not lend on vacant land, which is what we have. We are raising capital to service the land. The banks have many restrictions, want monthly interest and they also want pre-sales of lots. Again, bare land, no lots, no banks. Pre sale also creates an issue with builders wanting lower prices for the lots and they try to take advantage of us, we have to cave because we need presale and that translates to less profit.

This way, WE control the situation, not the bank and its guidelines. We can sell when we are ready to the builders, for a higher price. This means more profit for us and the investors.

That being said, we are not just doing this one project, we have numerous developments in Montreal and Alberta and this is ANOTHER way to raise capital. Don't think of it as an either or scenario, they go together. We bought the land outright 2 years ago. Our goal has been to amass a following of investors that trust we will make them good money and they will roll their earnings into future projects time and again.

It's about growth for us, not simply padding the bank's pockets :)

Canmorite, the bond is 8% annually and yes, I did own at the paradyme for a period.

[The_1]

platinum equities has something similar but in Langdon, AB but with a minimum investment of 25K
im not sure if you have looked at this but I would like to know what makes this a better investment?
I am looking into one or the other
Please let me know

Thanks

[ZorroAMG]

I am not about saying our product is better than another. It's different. That being said, comparing project to project without all their info is tough.

Platinum equities stuff is decent, we are just offering the highest return at the moment. Considering our project is a $100 million deal, even if their percentage of profit return was higher, you still make more money in Wildflower.

Main points:

First off, the langdon development is "sold out" according to their site.

10k minumum vs 25k. Makes investing a lot more accessible to more people.

Most other syndications are put together before they've even ACQUIRED the land, pushing completion dates to more like 7-10years instead of 3-5 like ours since we bought the land 2 years ago. Nevermind all the planning and applying for permits that takes years....we will have ours this july.

If you have a particular project in mind, pm me and I can go over the pros and cons of both...

[Canmorite]

So go to the bank and borrow at prime (hopefully. Maybe go for a HELOC) and then put that money into this project. 8% interest from the bond will cover your interest expense on the investment loan, then write off the interest expense on your tax return.

I'm missing something...

[ZorroAMG]

No, actually you aren't. That is common practice these days.

Also don't forget you are taxed as a dividend income on this investment...only 14.5% instead of your usual tax bracket...

[Blue Thunder]

Zorro, send me an email. I'm a contractor in Calgary who as also developed two subdivisions in Strathmore. Maybe we can strike a deal over construction costs. [email protected]

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by Canmorite
So go to the bank and borrow at prime (hopefully. Maybe go for a HELOC) and then put that money into this project. 8% interest from the bond will cover your interest expense on the investment loan, then write off the interest expense on your tax return.

I'm missing something...

the part ur missing is how u get raped if the project doesnt go quite as hoped, and doesnt yield the projected returns

[TYMSMNY]

Originally posted by turbotrip


the part ur missing is how u get raped if the project doesnt go quite as hoped, and doesnt yield the projected returns

Then you get raped both ways!

It's exactly the same thing if you borrowed at 5% and invested it into a National Bank Bond paying 8+%. Doesn't seem so risky as you're just using leverage. Buy this in a margin account and depending on the equity, use it as margin and buy more! It all goes back to risk tolerance

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by turbotrip


the part ur missing is how u get raped if the project doesnt go quite as hoped, and doesnt yield the projected returns

Where does the rape happen?

If he doesn't want to go into the profit participation and is worried about "the market" he gets his loan at 6 or 7%, goes in on the 14% flex bond of our development with no profit sharing and has a nice, low risk day.

Or he can get his loan and do our 11% with quarterly payments..

I don't see the issue. This is strathmore. They NEED lots...the town MUST grow to support all the new infrastructure and we WILL develop this land. We have over 100million in unencumbered land in our portfolio, we aren't about to let a 20mil investment go sideways, seeing as we've owned and worked this deal for nearly four years.

This is not your run of the mill syndication where people make ridiculars claims before the even OWN the land let alone set the project in motion via development permits etc.

We are completely transparent and I urge you all to ask me anything you need to know...even come by our office...

Mark

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by turbotrip


the part ur missing is how u get raped if the project doesnt go quite as hoped, and doesnt yield the projected returns


Yup -- there is no free lunch and that's exactly the reason banks won't lend on raw land -- because the risk is way too high for them. LOTS of things can go wrong between land acquisition and development. The risks are super high which is why land developers make so much moola.

[ZorroAMG]

Exactly. That is why we bought the land 4 years ago and did the extensive due dilligence to make sure the project was a viable one for our company and the investors. We have the cash, we don't need the banks for this project and syndication is just the best way to be able to have a diverse portfolio and grow.

Again, this isnt in Calgary with all the competition, ABUNDANCE of product and shoddy workmanship. Strathmore absolutely NEEDS the lots and we are going to be super aggressive with the pricing to keep the absorption steady.

PS banks DO lend on raw land to companies with our track record....we just didn't want to pad their pockets anymore ;)

[TYMSMNY]

edit: I see you're paying out 8% on the bonds. Cheap capital. :D

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Exactly. That is why we bought the land 4 years ago and did the extensive due diligence to make sure the project was a viable one for our company and the investors. We have the cash, we don't need the banks for this project and syndication is just the best way to be able to have a diverse portfolio and grow.

Again, this isnt in Calgary with all the competition, ABUNDANCE of product and shoddy workmanship. Strathmore absolutely NEEDS the lots and we are going to be super aggressive with the pricing to keep the absorption steady.

PS banks DO lend on raw land to companies with our track record....we just didn't want to pad their pockets anymore ;)


Originally posted by ZorroAMG
[B] At the moment, banks do not lend on vacant land, which is what we have. We are raising capital to service the land. The banks have many restrictions, want monthly interest and they also want pre-sales of lots. Again, bare land, no lots, no banks.

Let me reiterate -- the chartered banks don't lend on raw/vacant/undeveloped land that has no initial work done -- like municipal approvals and pre-sales -- which is where the huge risk lies.

You are sort of presenting this opportunity as a cakewalk -- it isn't. I worked in land development financing/commercial hard money mortgages for quite a few years.

This investment is plain and simply high risk. With a big emphasis on the high part. I'm not saying it's a bad investment -- but that it is not an investment for your average joe who cannot afford to lose the money.

I'm even interested a little myself.

Where is it at in terms of entitlement? (Are any municipal approvals in place yet for this project?)

Is the land already zoned appropriately for your project?

Does your company own the land outright or is there a charge against it? Who holds the mortgage if there is one.

Is ground broken at all yet? where is it at:

Geoscience?, Environmental? Surveying? Groundwork/Grading? Deeps?

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by D. Dub




Let me reiterate -- the chartered banks don't lend on raw/vacant/undeveloped land that has no initial work done -- like municipal approvals and pre-sales -- which is where the huge risk lies.

You are sort of presenting this opportunity as a cakewalk -- it isn't. I worked in land development financing/commercial hard money mortgages for quite a few years.

This investment is plain and simply high risk. With a big emphasis on the high part. I'm not saying it's a bad investment -- but that it is not an investment for your average joe who cannot afford to lose the money.

I'm even interested a little myself.

1. Where is it at in terms of entitlement? (Are any municipal approvals in place yet for this project?)

2. Is the land already zoned appropriately for your project?

3. Does your company own the land outright or is there a charge against it? Who holds the mortgage if there is one.

4. Is ground broken at all yet? where is it at:

Geoscience?, Environmental? Surveying? Groundwork/Grading? Deeps?


Yeah I should have elaborated that the Chartered banks don't LIKE to lend on raw land and usually don't. They HAVE made exceptions though ;)

This is by no means a cakewalk for the development standpoint and for the investor even though there is risk, this particular investment (not grouping us into other syndications) is as low as they come.

I do appreciate your background/knowledge and I love the different questions...

I've pm'd the answers since the technical stuff is over most people's heads.

If anyone else wants these answers, I will be happy to PM you.

[TYMSMNY]

^ I'll take the info. thanks. ;)

[ZorroAMG]

PM'ing

[djayz]

Me as well...

[LowRiderHD2000]

Ill take any info on this project also.

Thanks

[max_boost]

If it matters, but probably not, I invested in this project :D

and

if things weren't so low on the TSX, I would increase my positions too!:thumbsup:

[blownz]

^ Nothing is guaranteed though, especially in realestate lately. I would be a little concerned that their website is now blank. lol

[ZorroAMG]

The website is blank because it was one that I built for marketing purposes before the marketing company started work on the project. It is now just being held until the construction starts and we will use the site for builder packages etc.

If you need a site to peruse, www.cancorppropertygroup.com

:)

Sam, there are new opportunities available, quarterly payments etc so when your cash position allows, let me know!

The rest of you requesting info, I will now PM ya!

[Khalil.e]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG



Yeah I should have elaborated that the Chartered banks don't LIKE to lend on raw land and usually don't. They HAVE made exceptions though ;)

This is by no means a cakewalk for the development standpoint and for the investor even though there is risk, this particular investment (not grouping us into other syndications) is as low as they come.

I do appreciate your background/knowledge and I love the different questions...

I've pm'd the answers since the technical stuff is over most people's heads.

If anyone else wants these answers, I will be happy to PM you.

Please PM the answers to me as well :)

[ExtraSlow]

Zorro, awful tunage on that site.

[2000impreza]

I've been involved/worked with mutiple companies that has raised capital in the same fashion. Most investors do not realize the risks involved and are a bit blinded by the high interest rate paid out. IMO "due dilligence" 4 years ago is a poor pitch used to justify risk to potential investors.

How long has cancorppropertygroup been around? How are the packaged debt investment products better than the competitors offerings:

http://www.frplfinance.com/index.html
http://www.sci.ca/
http://www.waltoninternational.com/

[2000impreza]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


PS banks DO lend on raw land to companies with our track record....we just didn't want to pad their pockets anymore ;)

Not sure if I follow your logic. If borrowing from banks were a option, why would Cancorppropertygroup not go this route? It would be a smarter financial decision as the interest would be lower allowing the company in increase its bottom line. Not to mention avoid paying sales commissions, transfer fees, etc associated with the bond offering.

[ZorroAMG]

Re-read my posts and check out the sites I posted, I don't care to reiterate everything I've said for those people that are too lazy to read :)

Banks want pre-sales. Pre-sales = us selling lots way below market value to make banks happy. Private investors don't ask for presales because when we sell the lots to the builders at market value, the profit goes to the investors. I find it hard to believe you have worked in this industry and aren't aware of this simple concept.

As far as 4 years due diligence being a poor pitch, I'm afraid I dont follow. You are saying you'd rather some fly by night developer comes in, buys land and then claims they will may XXX return for an investor?

I appreciate your questions, but your approach with negativity and criticism when I have ALREADY answered most of the questions publicly here leads me to believe you are not as informed as you say you are.

PM me for any further questions.

[ZorroAMG]

I will address the competitor offerings though by one statement:

Get all the project offering memorandums from each developer ( not the glossy sales packages, the legal documents) put them side by side and compare and I CAN say our offering is the strongest and most transparent.

It's a lot of reading, so enjoy!! :)

[bwling]

Can you please PM me the answers as well? Thanks!

[ZorroAMG]

Hey everyone!

Just a heads up to all that have invested in the First Offering 8% + profit sharing:

The offering memorandum for this one expires on Oct 31, 2008 so any of you still on the fence need to pull the trigger. The new OM will be released in November when we receive the approvals and of course at a reduced rate of return seeing as the risk once the development is approved will be significantly lower.

Also, we rolled out the new Flex Bond offering on the new land component purchased in the development. This offering has a flat return of either 14% annually or 11% quarterly return. This new offering has no profit sharing component, simply a great interest rate with the two payment options. This is great for those hesitant investors since there is no interference with their return from the market.

Min investment in either is $10,000, of course both are land secured, RRSP eligible.

PM me if you are interested!

[Bimmer88]

Only if I had money right now... stupid mutual funds...

[ZorroAMG]

Well, we will be reducing the min investment to 5000 in Jan when the new tax free savings account goes in to effect...start saving! :)

[Bimmer88]

5K! I think I can afford that! lol sounds awesome.

Is the ROI still going to be the same though? or less because your only investing 5K?

[ZorroAMG]

As per the post directly above you, ROI will change Oct 31. Returns are the same regardless of investment amounts

We are about to get approvals, thus removing the majority of the development/investment risk.

Risk/reward.

The 14% and 11% quarterly bonds will remain though...still fantastic returns for such low risk.

Let me know...

[cosmok]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
As per the post directly above you, ROI will change Oct 31. Returns are the same regardless of investment amounts

We are about to get approvals, thus removing the majority of the development/investment risk.

Risk/reward.

The 14% and 11% quarterly bonds will remain though...still fantastic returns for such low risk.

Let me know...
You mind sending me some of these details? Thanks

[Bimmer88]

Check PM

[ZorroAMG]

No YOU check PM!

:D

[max_boost]

Hey Z,

Question on the flex bonds, either quarterly or annually but once we hit that mark, you just send us a cheque with the interest earned on our principal amount?

So $10K at 11% quarterly so 2.75%= $275 or 14% annually so $1400 payment?

Just like that?

Better than the bank. We would get the principle back once the project is complete? :dunno:

[ZorroAMG]

Yeah Maxy, it's the exact same thing you are in but no profit sharing and different rates...it's a bond so at maturity you get it back.

Thinking of topping off? Deadline for more in on the original is tuesday and the flexbond has a year left.


For the "annual" 14%, just like your 8%+prof shar is actually paid out once lots are sold, not annually. So if it takes 3 years to sell the lots completely and pay back the bond, you get 14% x3....

Let me know what your thoughts are.

[max_boost]

Yeah I'm thinking haha

So with the 11% quarterly, we actually receive quarterly interest payments? Unlike the 14% or 8%+profit sharing, we don't have to wait until till project ends, units sold right?

Hmmm...interesting, then the cash can cover the interest on a loan. I think it was mention earlier on pg.1 :D

[ZorroAMG]

Exactly. Every 3 months from the day you get the bond, you get a cheque. Call me on my cell today, I am at the office.

[djayz]

Can the quarterly bond payments be reinvested?

Also what kind of rough timeframe is there to sell the lots on the 14% annual bond?

[ZorroAMG]

Yes you can reinvest but keep in mind it only makes sense if you are investing a decent amount. Reason:

10k investment yields $275 every three months. Reinvesting each time requires a fixed 70$ fee with Olympia trust, making your profit only 205 every 3 months.

The more you invest, the more that method makes sense so 50K pays 1375 -70$ you feel the hit a lot less.

We will have lots for sale by spring/early summer '09. - that applies to both the 14% annual and the 11% quarterly.

Hope that helps!

[realazy]

I think you should keep updating Beyond on the status so I don't have to bug you or wait for the update reports.

[TYMSMNY]

If initial investment is in a RSP, where do the payments go...

good thing to note down for potential investors.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by realazy
I think you should keep updating Beyond on the status so I don't have to bug you or wait for the update reports.

Did you not get my email updates?? I sent them out as soon as you requested them!

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by TYMSMNY
If initial investment is in a RSP, where do the payments go...

good thing to note down for potential investors.

If you are doing an RRSP investment in the original bond with profit sharing that some here have bought, the 8% goes into the rrsp but the profit sharing is outside the rrsp and taxed as a dividend income (14.6%) Deadline to get in on the profit sharing, again, is Oct 31, 2008 (meaning the deal has to be sumitted to Olympia trust no later than the 29th.

Those wanting to purchase in the flexbond 14% or 11% quarterly options, if they do rrsp, all the payments go into the rrsp.

Thanks for the reminder to post that info!!

[realazy]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG


Did you not get my email updates?? I sent them out as soon as you requested them!

haha yes I did, but it's so much easier on Beyond. :D

[ZorroAMG]

Ohhhh, I thought you were miffed cause you didnt get the updates or something!

If your parents or you want to top up your investment before Oct 31 deadline, let me know...did they get their funds from the "other guys"?

[realazy]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Ohhhh, I thought you were miffed cause you didnt get the updates or something!

If your parents or you want to top up your investment before Oct 31 deadline, let me know...did they get their funds from the "other guys"?

It took me a second to get what "other guys" you were referring to. lol

Unfortunately, those funds will come in mid November. I may be interested when I return to Calgary with the other options you have though.

[ZorroAMG]

See what maxboost is contemplating above...it's a smart play to make someone else's money make you money :)

[Canmorite]

Zorro what are your thoughts on the current real estate market? Will the currently (And possbily future) declining property values effect the ROI? Is there a deposit guarantee?

[ZorroAMG]

The current market in Calgary does not reflect what is happening in Strathmore. Even Calgary's market isn't TERRIBLE, it's just normal now.

Declining property values from when? The freakshow anomaly of 2006? Property values since the beginning of real estate have grown and will always grow....don't take a flattening of a freak market as the sign of the end of the world. :)

Strathmore is more like Airdrie 10-15yrs ago, steady population growth etc but strathmore is better poised. There is FANTASTIC infrastructure, as I've mentioned...a huge amount of money has been put in the town and combined with the steady demand of people moving away from calgary looking for larger lots (25ft vs strathmore min lot size of 50ft), safer town, full amenities and lack of product, the demand is on the rise.

Our master planned development is going to be the first one in strathmore, we have 60% of the land available for res. dev. and we are doing a proper plan to roll out an eventual 1800 lots on 280 acres.

No investment can be guaranteed but the way we have planned this project for the last 4 years, combined with the number of lots total, we are going to turn a solid profit. Lot sales initially for the first PORTION of the first phase (of 3) may have to be priced aggressively to stave off this market slowdown but overall for the 1800 lots, returns will be impressive.

Keep in mind the following:

Our initial projections and offering memorandum were based on $150,000/acre as value of land...this month when we get our approvals that value will be jumping to over $350,000/acre and then go up as construction progresses. That is not speculation either. That is market. RAW land market...not "damn my house in riverbend was affected" market.

Your deposit is secured against the land. Land that will more than double in value very soon. There is no bank to pay. It's you and us as a "partnership" in the investment. Fairly decent value increase and security, don't you think? :)

Those of you interested in getting in before the Oct 31 deadline, PM me...and those that have pm'd, you've got mail!

[adamc]

Is there (forgive me if I'm using the incorrect verbage) "putability" with this type of bond investment.

I suppose the real question is - what happens to my investment if the 19million is not raised and the project goes in another direction (sold off, held, etc).


I would like to dip my toe in the land investment sea, but will spend a long time educating myself first.

[ZorroAMG]

We don't NEED to raise all the money at once....we've already raised 12 of the 19 and will proceed ahead. We are putting out 48 lots by late spring and that will generate substantial revenue to fund ourselves if we weren't able to raise the rest through syndication. The beauty about syndication is that if money is slow to come in (for a slow market like today's for ex), we enhance our terms. We don't need to, as it stands currently.

If you have more Q's let me know!

[1997GSR]

:werd: I work out in Strathmore maybe two times a month with work and that place is great. Friendly people, easy access to everything. It is going to be the place to be for folks who want to get out of Calgary as it grows.

[roopi]

How did this end up working out for you guys who invested? I considered this but then decided not too. Now I'm thinking about a similar investment opportunity but I'm curious for some feedback on how this one worked out for people.

[Strider]

Originally posted by roopi
How did this end up working out for you guys who invested? I considered this but then decided not too. Now I'm thinking about a similar investment opportunity but I'm curious for some feedback on how this one worked out for people.

Pretty sure max_boost said somewhere that he still hasn't seen his money back... Can't find the thread though

[TYMSMNY]

no initial investment nor any interest paid if i recall. postponed/rolled over?

[corsvette]

There is a brand new development that just broke ground on the eastern edge of town :dunno:

This is the first new project given the green light since Strathmore got on City water in 2010 ish.

The old water system could not handle any new development or growth, so many projects were shelved untill the new water system was in full swing.

[Cos]

.

[max_boost]

Nope. Nothing yet for the Wild Flower Ranch project but homie ZorroAMG has assured me, it's all good. lol I hope so!

Anyway, I actually haven't driven by that project but AFAIK it's there for sure. But long story short, I guess people aren't moving to Strathmore? People aren't buying that development?

Anyway, my initial investment was $10K.

8% bond/5years. So I've paid taxes on that $800/year T5 but without actually seeing any money in my pocket.

At the time, I was told my $10K ------ > $23K at the end of 5 years if things went well.

At this point, I be happy with my $10K back. haha

http://www.wildflowerranch.ca/

Damn 5 years goes by fast! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[InRich]

lol... wow.

[roopi]

Originally posted by max_boost
Nope. Nothing yet for the Wild Flower Ranch project but homie ZorroAMG has assured me, it's all good. lol I hope so!

Anyway, I actually haven't driven by that project but AFAIK it's there for sure. But long story short, I guess people aren't moving to Strathmore? People aren't buying that development?

Anyway, my initial investment was $10K.

8% bond/5years. So I've paid taxes on that $800/year T5 but without actually seeing any money in my pocket.

At the time, I was told my $10K ------ > $23K at the end of 5 years if things went well.

At this point, I be happy with my $10K back. haha

http://www.wildflowerranch.ca/

Damn 5 years goes by fast! :eek: :eek: :eek:

So since you are paying taxes you are receiving the interest payments? I'm a little confused. If you aren't receiving payments why would you be paying taxes?

:confused:

[G]

Fishy as hell

[max_boost]

Haha I dunno Roopi.

No money paid out. But definitely declared $800/year in investment income.

As of right now I believe I am owed $10k. Plus 4000 in interest. That $14k is being converted to trust units. Whatever that means lol hope for the best haha

[G]

If you go back and read the thread again it sounded like a snake oil sales pitch right from the start. Questions asked but lots of run around answers. Only reason a conventional bank wasn't used is because banks have all the resources to do the due diligence properly....guess what that means. Real estate syndication is the biggest scam out there. Look at Concrete, Platinum, Harvest and all the rest. Same shit different pile.

[max_boost]

Lol yea doesn't look good G. Hahaha just finished reading it lol

At least Calgary real estate prices haven't disappointed :D

[G]

Exactly you could've used that money on another rental and made a crap load more. But you choose this because you thought it will be a sure win with your homie. But there is a Chinese proverb only eat those you know.

[triplep]

Originally posted by G
But there is a Chinese proverb only eat those you know.

:poosie:

[Type_S1]

I would be breaking kneecaps if I was in max_boost's position. You got scammed hard for sure and I bet the salesman is just laughing away in his Mercedes and 500k home bought with scammed $$. No better than someone mugging you on the street.

[blitz]

Originally posted by max_boost
At the time, I was told my $10K ------ > $23K at the end of 5 years if things went well.


Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Total return is conservatively projected at 27%/yr or it's also broken down as follows:

$10,010 investment will net you $23,758 total, including initial investment. This is a %137 ROI over 5yrs including the 8%/yr returning bond. Again, an annual rate of return of 27%

:rofl:

If you have a 27%/year guaranteed investment opportunity, you don't need to go looking for $10k investments on a car forum :rofl:

[BigMass]

what ever happened to ZorroAMG ... he hasn't posted in almost a year

[triplep]

Originally posted by BigMass
what ever happened to ZorroAMG ... he hasn't posted in almost a year


Probably in Cuba on the beach

[Type_S1]

Does anyone know him personally? It so, please kick him in the nuts about 10,000,000 times.

[BigMass]

I thought he was a mod and an OG forum member. I remember him from way back. I also thought many here knew him IRL so I find it odd someone like that, in such a position, would have the nuts to do something intentionally fraudulent without fearing some sort of community wide repercussions. I mean look at all the other threads where someone go scammed on a relatively minor level and the huge backlash. I've seen zero backlash against ZorroAMG. (if what people say is true)

[G]

Well to be fair it hasn't been proven to be a scam yet. He probably didn't fully understand what it was at the time either.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by G
Well to be fair it hasn't been proven to be a scam yet. He probably didn't fully understand what it was at the time either.

While not every real estate syndication is a scam, I've seen too many spectacular fails in my career to EVER invest in one.

[roopi]

Sorry guys I didn't mean to bring this up in an attempt to start bashing Zorro. I have actually met him many times and he is a good guy. I'm pretty sure a lot of people on this forum know him personally as well.

I believe he's actually an actor now in Vancouver or California. :dunno:

[TYMSMNY]

Originally posted by G
Well to be fair it hasn't been proven to be a scam yet. He probably didn't fully understand what it was at the time either.

I think his Dad is the investor behind the scenes. The head on the investment product.

[realazy]

I bought into this as well 5 years ago, but I'm not too worried. The actual development is happening and there's updates every quarter.

The real estate market is not the greatest and the sales of the lots are slower than expected.

It's not the worst thing in the world.

My parents bought into the development of the Evanstan area (Symons Valley) with Walton 20 years ago and they only started paying out a few years ago.

[roopi]

Originally posted by realazy

My parents bought into the development of the Evanstan area (Symons Valley) with Walton 20 years ago and they only started paying out a few years ago.

So how does that work? Are they paid for all those years when they received nothing?

[max_boost]

Zorro is quite busy with his acting career but still took the time to answer my questions regarding the investment.

It's unfortunate it hasn't worked out so far (meeting the deadline/payouts). The investment made sense to me (at least) at the time so that's why I jumped in.

Well, time will tell where it goes!

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by triplep



Probably in Cuba on the beach you can only live off $10k for so long, even in Cuba

[realazy]

Originally posted by roopi


So how does that work? Are they paid for all those years when they received nothing?

That one in particular is paying profits on the development based on working interest. The principle has been paid off and we get payments every year based on profits. This one isn't really the greatest investment, but I'm not sure of the rate of return as we're still getting payments as Evanston develops. There should be a lump sum once Evanston is completely developed.

Another example is a plot of land we had in the SE industrial area where it sold as a whole, every working interest owner just got paid x% of the sale price. This one worked out to be about 600% ROI in ~15 years.

It's definitely not an investment for people who need cashflow, it's more of a put it away and not think about it type of investment.

[sabad66]

Classic beyond... Hang the guy before even listening to his side of the story.

[01RedDX]

.

[max_boost]

Don't think anyone is really throwing him under the bus here. End of the day the project hasn't met its deadlines and promises. Even right now there's not really a time frame on things either. With that said, I didn't really know what I was getting into and I'm sure many others can relate. Too easy I suppose and there's no free lunch. Although I am a bit more optimistic after what realazy posted haha

[KappaSigma]

Originally posted by max_boost
Nope. Nothing yet for the Wild Flower Ranch project but homie ZorroAMG has assured me, it's all good. lol I hope so!

Anyway, I actually haven't driven by that project but AFAIK it's there for sure. But long story short, I guess people aren't moving to Strathmore? People aren't buying that development?

Anyway, my initial investment was $10K.

8% bond/5years. So I've paid taxes on that $800/year T5 but without actually seeing any money in my pocket.

At the time, I was told my $10K ------ > $23K at the end of 5 years if things went well.

At this point, I be happy with my $10K back. haha

http://www.wildflowerranch.ca/

Damn 5 years goes by fast! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Wtf. Why are you paying tax or getting a t5. Just like a bonus, dividends or interest you should only be getting a t slip when actual cash is paid and received....not accrued.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


You'll notice his last post was in February, but he deleted it last month, which is kinda weird. How often do you go back to delete a post you made a year ago?


With the thread context... probably on the advise of a lawyer. :rofl:

[roopi]

Originally posted by KappaSigma


Wtf. Why are you paying tax or getting a t5. Just like a bonus, dividends or interest you should only be getting a t slip when actual cash is paid and received....not accrued.

This is what I was assuming too. Seems really odd to pay tax on money you are receiving. I don't understand why they would be even issuing you a T5. So weird...

[max_boost]

Originally posted by KappaSigma


Wtf. Why are you paying tax or getting a t5. Just like a bonus, dividends or interest you should only be getting a t slip when actual cash is paid and received....not accrued. You guys believe me right. I don't need to post the T5 slips do I lol :nut: :dunno:

[Kari_310]

Per the CRA, "You have to prepare T5 slips each year for all investment contracts acquired after 1989. You have to prepare these slips annually even if you did not pay the interest. "

I've also called the CRA asking about this as well, you have to included the accrued interest in the year it was earned regardless if it was paid to you or not.