Caddy CTS-V... Fastest sedan on the 'ring?

[Destinova403]

"fastest documented lap time" for a production sedan

um... wow. it did the ring in 7:59.32

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/09/green-hellraiser-caddy-cts-v-storms-nordschleife-in-7-59-32/

EDIT: some perspective

just to show where this stands... take a look at these other numbers.

8:13 BMW M5 E60
8:09 BMW M6 E63
8:05 BMW M3 E92
8:03 Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2005)
8:02 Mercedes CLK 63 AMG - Black Series
8:01 Nissan Skyline GT-R R33
7:59 Dodge Viper SRT-10
7:59 Porsche 997 Carrera S
7:56 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale

[treg50]

Aw fuck! As soon as I saw that first pic, I was like oh shit that is badasss.

CTS-V is looking good! And some idiots around here said the CTS-V had zero chance of being any good, LOL.

:clap:

[hampstor]

Originally posted by treg50
[zB]Aw fuck! As soon as I saw that first pic, I was like oh shit that is badasss.

CTS-V is looking good! And some idiots around here said the CTS-V had zero chance of being any good, LOL.

:clap: [/B]

<sarcasm>
That's impossible for an American car. American cars are low tech fat and ugly vehicles. This HAS to be a rebadged Honda. :devil:
</sarcasm>

That car is awesome, I'd take this over the ZR1 any day. The window in the hood to see the blower is just tacky.

[01RedDX]

.

[max_boost]

Nah man, it's GM......I would never consider it.....:D

[Eleanor]

CTS-V FTMFW!!!!!!!!!!!! :drool:

[Justing]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
I love the CTS-V. You'd have to be a hardcore douchebag fanboy to buy an M5 now.

that's true, as people who buy large four door luxury sedans are primarily concerned with how fast it goes around a race track in Germany.

[5hift]

Originally posted by Justing


that's true, as people who buy large four door luxury sedans are primarily concerned with how fast it goes around a race track in Germany.

yah crazy things like image, reliability and resale have no factor at all in decision making when purchasing a full size luxury sport sedan

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Justing
that's true, as people who buy large four door luxury sedans are primarily concerned with how fast it goes around a race track in Germany.


What I Drive: e36 M3

:rofl:

LOL, if it were the M5 sporting a crazy lap you'd be in here talking about the "Ultimate Driving Machine"

People who buy these kinds of cars are concerned about performance, otherwise they wouldn't be buying a luxury sport sedan :nut:

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by 5hift
yah crazy things like image

BMW's are a dime a dozen in this city, it's not that impressive anymore :dunno:

[dino_martini]

:drool:

[Justing]

Originally posted by Eleanor




:rofl:

LOL, if it were the M5 sporting a crazy lap you'd be in here talking about the &quot;Ultimate Driving Machine&quot;

People who buy these kinds of cars are concerned about performance, otherwise they wouldn't be buying a luxury sport sedan :nut:

I don't see how what i drive has anything to do with this

lol i just found it funny that he said you'd have to be a douchebag fanboy to buy a m5.
nothing against the caddy, its a nice looking car with great performance, but different strokes for different folks.
i dont think the cts-v is going to be the end of the m5, e63 rs6 etc.

besides, isn't the cts-v supposed to be a competitor for the m3, c63 etc?

[E46..sTyLez]

Originally posted by Justing


that's true, as people who buy large four door luxury sedans are primarily concerned with how fast it goes around a race track in Germany.


:rofl: that made me laugh

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Justing


I don't see how what i drive has anything to do with this

lol i just found it funny that he said you'd have to be a douchebag fanboy to buy a m5.
nothing against the caddy, its a nice looking car with great performance, but different strokes for different folks.
i dont think the cts-v is going to be the end of the m5, e63 rs6 etc.

besides, isn't the cts-v supposed to be a competitor for the m3, c63 etc?

no the CTS is aimed directly at the 5 series... in price its comparable to a 3 series but in size and engine choice its much closer to the 5 series.

caddy doesnt have anything that can compete with the 3 series right now... namely the 335i coupe... the CTS coupe will MAYBE fall into this category depending what caddy decides to do with it.

[Destinova403]

Oh lord... here come the BMW fanboys...

this thread is NOT meant to bash any BMWs... mearly to point out that "Domestic Crap" isnt really crap anymore... and as CAR enthusiasts we should be able to appreciate a nice car no matter where it comes from or who makes it.

[schocker]

I am waiting to see the comparo when all of the equivalent cars are out. CTS-V, E90 M3, B8 RS4, IS-F, C63

[Moe Man]

hahah what a sick car man, unreal looks they couldnt have made it look better.

where is the window in the hood to see the blower????

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Moe Man
hahah what a sick car man, unreal looks they couldnt have made it look better.

where is the window in the hood to see the blower????

I was refering to the ZR1 and how im glad the CTSV does not have it :)

[Inzane]

Originally posted by E46..sTyLez
:rofl: that made me laugh

x2.

[BigMass]

Ughhh these times make my head hurt. Do you realize how much difference drivers make on these timed runs? Especially on such a long course like the Nurburgring. Tires, weather conditions, driver could make a 30 second difference on these cars. Some of those times are just worthless. For example, no way the same professional driver cant run a faster time with an SRT10 Viper than with a CTS-V

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by 5hift


yah crazy things like image

Wait, everyone assuming you're a douche is a good thing? :D


Joking aside, that's one impressive Caddy.

[5hift]

yeah good thing about the Caddy is if you wait 3 years you can get it at 50% of what it will cost brand new this year.

[inline6turbo]

which is believed to be the "fastest documented lap time" for a production sedan. Even if that turns out not to be the case,


Casually missed the "believed to be part"? lol

looks hot though :drool:

[gd3_kid]

Originally posted by 5hift
yeah good thing about the Caddy is if you wait 3 years you can get it at 50% of what it will cost brand new this year.

Thats exactly why I'm excited about this car...its actually obtainable for younger people (if you can wait a couple years), unlike its competition (M5, IS-f, etc.)

And given the increased quality of recent caddy's, which again, is unlike its competition, IMO its a better buy on the used market too

[Mitsu3000gt]

That looks fairly badass, unfortunately performance isn't everything.

It will be interesting to see what these cost in 2-3 years, as mentioned before, should be very affordable/appealing to the younger crowd :thumbsup:

[Canmorite]

Ya...I'd still take an M5 over it haha.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Ya...I'd still take an M5 over it haha.

Damn straight.

[arian_ma]

That car is amazing but I would still take the M5 any day.

[treg50]

Wow, I just saw the laptimes edited in. That is extremely impressive. When compared to their respective competition the CTS-V is like the GT-R: it crushes every competitor around it.

More pics and an estimated 50 more HP than the M5:
http://jalopnik.com/385548/2009-cadillac-cts+v-to-produce-567-hp

:burnout:

[Inzane]

So, the brand of choice of retired Saskatchewan prairie farmers may finally become cool again afterall...

:D

[treg50]

Originally posted by Inzane
So, the brand of choice of retired Saskatchewan prairie farmers may finally become cool again afterall...

:D
If BMW and Audi can do it... :thumbsup:

[snowboard]

i love that car
wow, i love how the interior has so many buttons, it looks so, cool.

[01RedDX]

.

[A790]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Yeah, they are forever cursed to be known as the 'geezer' brand.

But I think they are working hard to shake off that image.
They're trying to pull a Lexus, and it looks like it's working.

[4DoorGTZ]

Originally posted by 5hift
yeah good thing about the Caddy is if you wait 3 years you can get it at 50% of what it will cost brand new this year.

:) I got mine 2.5yrs old 16k km and $10k in aftermarket ugrades for 1/2 the original sticker price. If you add in the aftermarket goodies to the sticker I only paid 41% :clap:

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by 4DoorGTZ


:) I got mine 2.5yrs old 16k km and $10k in aftermarket ugrades for 1/2 the original sticker price. If you add in the aftermarket goodies to the sticker I only paid 41% :clap:

and only have 41% of the diff left right? :rofl: J/K

[Destinova403]

The video made it up!

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/14/video-cadillac-cts-v-takes-to-the-ring-pummels-into-submissio/

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Damn, with an automatic no less. That seemed to be a very smooth lap, as well.

[A790]

Nicely done.

[4DoorGTZ]

Originally posted by Eleanor


and only have 41% of the diff left right? :rofl: J/K

Yeah, that was a concern.... Major selling piont was the fact that there was 1000mi on the newly replaced diff (06 model put in, not much better but best available) 1st owner blew the first diff in 8500mi :)

[Destinova403]

Official HP and TQ numbers are in.

556 HP... :drool:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/09/2009-cadillac-cts-v-will-officially-make-556-horsepower/

PS: it was designed to DESTROY the M5

[schocker]

:drool:
that is going to be one beastly sedan. 12s quarter mile:thumbsup:

[nd54]

550bhp and it's only 5 seconds faster than the 414bhp M3? To me that makes the BMW more impressive.

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by nd54
550bhp and it's only 5 seconds faster than the 414bhp M3? To me that makes the BMW more impressive.

its faster than anything BMW has to offer and a fraction of the price of the car its competing against... try to put your fanboyism aside and give credit where credit is due.

[5hift]

I'm not a BMW fanboy and will give credit when it is due but I see it like this: Anyone can make a hugeass powerplant. Not everyone can put it in a reliable car.

There is a reason these things lose half their value in a few years.

[b_t]

Originally posted by 5hift
I'm not a BMW fanboy and will give credit when it is due but I see it like this: Anyone can make a hugeass powerplant. Not everyone can put it in a reliable car.

There is a reason these things lose half their value in a few years.

You are at least five years out of date with the unreliable comment. For fuck's sakes, do you people not read the fucking news anymore?

[nd54]

The CTS is the smallest car in the Cadillac lineup, and although it has larger dimensions it really competes with the 3 Series BMW. How do you know the CTS-V is a fraction of the price? Nothing has been released yet. Looks like you're the fanboy. An M3 sedan is under 70k list, if the CTS-V is cheaper than that I will be the first to congratulate Cadillac for raising the bar.


Originally posted by Destinova403


its faster than anything BMW has to offer and a fraction of the price of the car its competing against... try to put your fanboyism aside and give credit where credit is due.

[b_t]

Originally posted by nd54
The CTS is the smallest car in the Cadillac lineup, and although it has larger dimensions it really competes with the 3 Series BMW. How do you know the CTS-V is a fraction of the price? Nothing has been released yet. Looks like you're the fanboy. An M3 sedan is under 70k list, if the CTS-V is cheaper than that I will be the first to congratulate Cadillac for raising the bar.



Alright, so the CTS-V will cost the same as an M3, but then absolutely destroy the M5? Why would you get the M3 then? Your new comparison here just makes the BMW look even worse.
They already are bland, downright ugly even, especially when compared to the Caddys, and now they will be getting smoked performance-wise for less money. What ultimate driver's machine?

[NickGT]

What a stellar luxury sport sedan. Wish I had a few bucks kicking around for this CTS-V :drool:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by NickGT
What a stellar luxury sport sedan. Wish I had a few bucks kicking around for this CTS-V :drool:

Just wait a few years.

After reading that the black book value of a 2004 CTS-V with 96,000 kms is $13,000-$16,000 in that other thread (car sold for $24k I think), I think you would have to be retarded to buy one new assuming things stay the same. The good news is for the 16 year olds 4 years from now who have a 500HP alternative to the Honda Civic they were probably considering in the first place, and they can save a few grand to boot lol.

[benyl]

Originally posted by nd54
The CTS is the smallest car in the Cadillac lineup, and although it has larger dimensions it really competes with the 3 Series BMW. How do you know the CTS-V is a fraction of the price? Nothing has been released yet. Looks like you're the fanboy. An M3 sedan is under 70k list, if the CTS-V is cheaper than that I will be the first to congratulate Cadillac for raising the bar.



Every review I have seen of the new CTS-V compares it to the M5, not the M3.

The M5 is a $120K car. The CTS-V will come in way below that.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Eleanor


BMW's are a dime a dozen in this city, it's not that impressive anymore :dunno:
Word. Anywhere else they turn heads though. Particularily Saskatoon. :dunno:

I'm quite interested in this... But I'll probably end up with a Tesla roadster just of the green factor, or that "Volt" concept that probabaly will never make it onto an assembly line:thumbsdow

This is an amazing car though. The ZR1, and this... things keep getting better. :D

[boxer23]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Just wait a few years.

After reading that the black book value of a 2004 CTS-V with 96,000 kms is $13,000-$16,000 in that other thread (car sold for $24k I think), I think you would have to be retarded to buy one new assuming things stay the same. The good news is for the 16 year olds 4 years from now who have a 500HP alternative to the Honda Civic they were probably considering in the first place, and they can save a few grand to boot lol.

oh yeah its only the V-series with a low black book value:rolleyes:
read up on the trade in value for an S4...$19K..oh my not the might german sports saloon

[Destinova403]

Autoblog took it for a ride... vids and more info here

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/11/autoblog-exclusive-burning-rubber-in-the-2009-cadillac-cts-v-w/

EDIT: also a lot of technical info on the car.
EDIT EDIT: also a short review of the car...

sorry... i posted this as i was reading it.

[treg50]

2009 CTS-V is predicted to be about $60k-$65k.

556-hp & 551 lb-ft.


Even at a hefty curb weight estimated to be 4,300 pounds, the CTS-V rocks the best power-to-weight ratio in its class. And this engine also punches out 551 pound-feet of torque at 3,800 rpm.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by treg50
2009 CTS-V is predicted to be about $60k-$65k.

In Canada or the US?

If that's Canada's MSRP in CDN$ that's the price range of a loaded 335i.

[treg50]

^ That was U.S.

[ekguy]

badass is the only word to describe that car. Simply amazing.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by boxer23


oh yeah its only the V-series with a low black book value:rolleyes:

You're right, it's not just the V-series. It includes all expensive american cars, but especially cadillacs. Compare any used Caddy or similar to the same value vehicle of any different brand using the same year and KM and tell me what you find.


Originally posted by boxer23
read up on the trade in value for an S4...$19K..oh my not the might german sports saloon

Not sure what year S4 you looked at but comparing the same model year and 96,000 KM, a 2004 S4 has ~$7000- $10,000 higher black book value than a CTS-V, ~%85 more. Of course this is all trade-in value, and no matter what car it is you can get more for it with a private sale.

Nobody is saying other brands don't depreciate a lot as well, just that expensive american cars pretty much are the worst possible investment in the car world when compared to all other competition of equal "value". German cars depreciate reasonably fast too, especially the really big, expensive sedans (I.E. A8, S Class, 7 series).

Had a look at Corvettes. I picked 2005 model years so I could see what a few years of depreciation can do. A 2005 Z06 vette with 50,000km comes in at around $29-$32K blackbook. New it was $90,000 according to Canadian Driver in 2005. I'd hate to be the guy who paid $60,000 to drive a vette for 3 years. Now lets have a look at a 2005 BMW M3. It's $15,000 cheaper when new. Blackbook on a 2005 M3 with 50,000km is $46-48K. That's almost a $20,000 higher value from a car that costs $15,000 less in the first place. The BMW is worth ~65% of its purchase price after a few years, and the vette only ~30% of a much higher value to begin with. You could do this all day long, and I know the prices/percentages will vary depending on the exact models chosen to compare, but the bottom line is if you buy an expensive american car, you are going to lose a stupid amount of money when you sell it a few years later.

Again I would like to stress that I am not trying to say that I think all american cars are crap by any stretch of the imagination, and I am not trying to say jap/german cars don't depreciate either (some do quite a bit, especially the A8, S class, 7 series). I'm just saying that if you take any 2 cars, similar in price and purpose, the american one is pretty much always going to be worth way less when it comes time to sell it or trade it in. This is no real secret at all, and I think anyone would tell you that. That means there are some awesome deals available on the used market, for example that CTS-V that sold in the other thread.

[A790]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


You're right, it's not just the V-series. It includes all expensive american cars, but especially cadillacs. Compare any used Caddy or similar to the same value vehicle of any different brand using the same year and KM and tell me what you find.



Not sure what year S4 you looked at but comparing the same model year and 96,000 KM, a 2004 S4 has ~$7000- $10,000 higher black book value than a CTS-V, ~%85 more. Of course this is all trade-in value, and no matter what car it is you can get more for it with a private sale.

Nobody is saying other brands don't depreciate a lot as well, just that expensive american cars pretty much are the worst possible investment in the car world when compared to all other competition of equal &quot;value&quot;. German cars depreciate reasonably fast too, especially the really big, expensive sedans (I.E. A8, S Class, 7 series).

Had a look at Corvettes. I picked 2005 model years so I could see what a few years of depreciation can do. A 2005 Z06 vette with 50,000km comes in at around $29-$32K blackbook. New it was $90,000 according to Canadian Driver in 2005. I'd hate to be the guy who paid $60,000 to drive a vette for 3 years. Now lets have a look at a 2005 BMW M3. It's $15,000 cheaper when new. Blackbook on a 2005 M3 with 50,000km is $46-48K. That's almost a $20,000 higher value from a car that costs $15,000 less in the first place. The BMW is worth ~65% of its purchase price after a few years, and the vette only ~30% of a much higher value to begin with. You could do this all day long, and I know the prices/percentages will vary depending on the exact models chosen to compare, but the bottom line is if you buy an expensive american car, you are going to lose a stupid amount of money when you sell it a few years later.

Again I would like to stress that I am not trying to say that I think all american cars are crap by any stretch of the imagination, and I am not trying to say jap/german cars don't depreciate either (some do quite a bit, especially the A8, S class, 7 series). I'm just saying that if you take any 2 cars, similar in price and purpose, the american one is pretty much always going to be worth way less when it comes time to sell it or trade it in. This is no real secret at all, and I think anyone would tell you that. That means there are some awesome deals available on the used market, for example that CTS-V that sold in the other thread.

Saleen S7 debunks your whole theory :P

Jokes aside, you have it bang on right now. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing within the next few years as the market has to readjust itself.

[Destinova403]

^^ as much as you are right... the whole view that a car is an investment is flawed... a car is much more of a liability. expensive cars (of any brand) are a luxury item, not an investment... i wouldnt buy a car because i could turn it around and sell it for more than the guy next to me...

i buy a car because i want to drive it.

99.9999 percent of the time you will lose money on a new car (exceptions being cars like the Enzo... worth more now than when it was new, and holding cars for a long time until they become collectors items (although given the amount of time it would take for this to pay off... id stick to a high intrest account))

im also talking about personal cars not company cars which would be a capital investment and a tax writeoff...

[b_t]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

just that expensive american cars pretty much are the worst possible investment in the car world

You can't look at a car as an investment, dipshit.
You should have said "any expensive car is pretty much the worst possible investment in the entire world."

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by b_t


You can't look at a car as an investment, dipshit.
You should have said &quot;any expensive car is pretty much the worst possible investment in the entire world.&quot;


:rofl: Been to the beach recently?

I'm pretty sure there are some Enzo, Veyron, and classic car owners that would disagree with you. I realize those cars weren't the topic of discussion, but if you want to get technical, if you're going to say any expensive car, you're wrong. I should have perhaps used the word "purchase" instead of "investment" but everyone still knew what I meant. I have a habit of equating the terms "spending" a lot of money with "investing" a lot of money, even though I realize they are completely different things. I'm terribly sorry.

[ZorroAMG]

Mitsu3000gt for the reach!

WTF are you talking about SUPERCARS for? Limited run, highly desirable exotic supercars do not support your claims, they make you look like an idiot. We are talking about GM's here.

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt



:rofl: Been to the beach recently?

I'm pretty sure there are some Enzo, Veyron, and classic car owners that would disagree with you. I realize those cars weren't the topic of discussion, but if you want to get technical, if you're going to say any expensive car, you're wrong. I should have perhaps used the word &quot;purchase&quot; instead of &quot;investment&quot; but everyone still knew what I meant. I have a habit of equating the terms &quot;spending&quot; a lot of money with &quot;investing&quot; a lot of money, even though I realize they are completely different things. I'm terribly sorry.

did you even read my post?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Destinova403


did you even read my post?

I was wondering the same thing. I specifically stated "I realize these cars weren't the topic of discussion". Not sure where the confusion is :dunno: I was simply making a point after b_t's global comment about ALL cars being bad investments. You're all very quick to point out every minute technical flaw in my post but you should read the other ones too. Saying that "Any expensive car is the worst investment" is equally as ridiculous.

I read your post and it makes perfect sense, that is why I cleared up the fact that I used the term "investment" incorrectly.

I don't want to get in an arguement here, I think what used to be friendly discussion is now heading in the wrong direction. I think I struck a nerve here and that certainly was not my intent, so I apoligize.

[benyl]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Mitsu3000gt for the reach!

WTF are you talking about SUPERCARS for? Limited run, highly desirable exotic supercars do not support your claims, they make you look like an idiot. We are talking about GM's here.

And most of those supercars still depreciate.

[tentacles]

I picked 2005 model years so I could see what a few years of depreciation can do. A 2005 Z06 vette with 50,000km comes in at around $29-$32K blackbook. New it was $90,000 according to Canadian Driver in 2005.

This is pretty hard to believe. I looked on autotrader and there aren't even any regular 2005 Vettes for less than $45k, and you are telling me a Z06 is only worth $30k? I didn't see any 2005s, but all the 2007s are asking $75K+, which is not bad considering the US price (and I bet all the ones for sale here are US cars - you would have to be an idiot to buy it in Canada) for the Z06 fully loaded is only around US$75k

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by tentacles


This is pretty hard to believe. I looked on autotrader and there aren't even any regular 2005 Vettes for less than $45k, and you are telling me a Z06 is only worth $30k?

That's blackbook, not what they sell for. I mentioned that in my original post as those were the values we were discussing, and not what they actually sell for on the used market.

[dimi]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


That's blackbook, not what they sell for. I mentioned that in my original post as those were the values we were discussing, and not what they actually sell for on the used market.

Who the fuck cares about blackbook. Show us a 2005 corvette Z06 for $29,000.

[tentacles]

I don't have a black book in front of me, but if that's way it works, then how much does a 2005 M3 sell for on the market? $75k?

[tentacles]

Originally posted by dimi


Who the fuck cares about blackbook. Show us a 2005 corvette Z06 for $29,000.

Pm it to me because I will buy it today. :thumbsup:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by dimi


Who the fuck cares about blackbook. Show us a 2005 corvette Z06 for $29,000.

Did you even read the original post?

That was not the point of the original discussion. Where did you read anyone saying you could pick up a 2004 19K S4 or a 2005 $30K Z06? The person I was replying too was showing me blackbook values for an S4 and in order to compare apples to apples I also provided some examples of blackbook values. This was explictly stated in the OP. Also, if your not going to be selling your car privately, blackbook starts to matter a bit more.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by tentacles
I don't have a black book in front of me, but if that's way it works, then how much does a 2005 M3 sell for on the market? $75k?

I have no idea, check autotrader. Never once was anyone ever discussing what the cars ACTUALLY sell for on the used market. The entire discussion was centered around blackbook values, but it seems to be heading elsewhere now lol. :drama:

[bspot]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


I have no idea, check autotrader. Never once was anyone ever discussing what the cars ACTUALLY sell for on the used market. The entire discussion was centered around blackbook values, but it seems to be heading elsewhere now lol. :drama:

I thought your whole point was the cost of ownership of a vehicle, which you calculated using new price and then blackbook price.

It seems to me such a calculation would only be accurate if you used both the purchase price and the selling price. But hey, that's just me.

:goflames:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by bspot


I thought your whole point was the cost of ownership of a vehicle, which you calculated using new price and then blackbook price.

It seems to me such a calculation would only be accurate if you used both the purchase price and the selling price. But hey, that's just me.

:goflames:

Just a friendly debate about blackbook prices, then everyone else jumped in and interpreted it their own way :thumbsup: Purchase price and blackbook price are 2 very relevant pieces of information if your trading a vehicle in. A lot of people want nothing to do with the "hassle" of selling a used car. Even if you wanted to use purchase price and private selling price, I think you would find the results to be similar, only perhaps less dramatic. No dealer is going to give you what you could sell a car for privately on trade-in.

[tentacles]

So just out of curiosity, what's the black book on a regular 2005 Corvette?

[ZorroAMG]

I have a black book...its the owner's manual to my black amex.

Anyone up for a $1000 lunch?

[RATM]

Somewhere, Nissan engineers with furrowed brows are shoving the GT-R's 3.8L V6 into a G35 sedan...

lawl

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by RATM
Somewhere, Nissan engineers with furrowed brows are shoving the GT-R's 3.8L V6 into a G35 sedan...

lawl

IMO it isnt the GTR's engine which makes it so fast... its the advanced AWD drive system.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Destinova403
IMO it isnt the GTR's engine which makes it so fast... its the advanced AWD drive system.

It has to have a good engine to haul its 3900lb fat ass around :rofl: