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sexualbanana
08-19-2003, 02:07 AM
I seem to be doing a lot of these recommendations lately, but this was a great movie/documentary. A bit propogandic (don't know if that's actually a word) but what documentary isn't.

Very informative and parts were quite disturbing. There was even a part where Michael Moore goes into a bank where he can open an account and get a free rifle from the bank which also happens to be a licensed firearms dealer.

Dope Dealer
08-19-2003, 02:14 AM
Yeah, I saw that movie in the theatres when it first came out. I like it a lot. Charton Heston seems like a big asshole and so does Dick Clark. Marilyn Manson seemed like a cool guy though, although I hate his music and his style.

4wheeldrift
08-19-2003, 06:42 AM
Going to pick up a copy on DVD today after work, was just released.

Redlyne_mr2
08-19-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
Going to pick up a copy on DVD today after work, was just released.
I love that movie...they need to play it in every classroom in america...4wheedrift who in town sells it Ive been looking to buy it for my dad..thans

MYKN
08-19-2003, 10:00 AM
Seen it at futureshop

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 10:24 AM
I personally think that from what i saw of the movie (which i admit was not all) i thought it was pretty stupid, and i think Michael Moore is a complete jackass. As for his whole stance against guns..whatever....he s entitled to his opinion. But i fail to understand where america/canada is going with this whole logic that "guns are bad".....please. Not once in history has a gun pulled its own trigger to kill someone....ya sure there have been accidents etc, where maybe a gun has fallen and went off, but that wasn t the guns fault. Society has convinced itself that gun are the enemy......that couldn t be further from the truth. Its the people and the lack of education thats the problem. When do people see guns these days? Well lets see.....you see them in movies, you see them on tv, you see them in newspapers, and magazines. And how do you see them? Usually as murder weapons, or at least people being shot with them. A whole generation is growing up not knowing what their intended use was for......hunting and protection. All we see are 10 year olds in the middle east waving around AK-47's like they were water guns and we think "oh thats sad" and ya it is..... but society s view of guns are now warped. I was 12 when i got my first .22. I was taught to respect it, and i was shown what it was capable of. I was taught its uses, and what it was NOT meant for. The problem i think, is that the only thing people learn about a gun today, is how to pull the trigger. And the only exposure to guns is in the media. People like Michael Moore and Rosie Odonnell who are so dead set against guns, are people who just need a cause, something to get them in the spotlight, they know no more about guns that i do about making movies or being fat and obnoxious. They both blame Columbine and kids playing with guns, on the guns themselves....... try blaming the parents and the lack of guidence instead. In canada the law was passed to "register" all firearms...what a joke. There is no way that ALL the firearms will ever get registered....they said "it will allow the police to know if there is a gun inside the building if there is an altercation". What a load of crap..... so what if the cops think there is no firearms, and they storm in......they storm into a loaded arsenal of guns pointed directly at them...... talk about UNprepared....... thats even worse than not knowing.... And then there s the billions that its cost us the taxpayers..... Good thing there are no people starving in Canada that we need to sink billions into the gun registry...

K271
08-19-2003, 10:39 AM
That's a great documentary. Best is when they talked about gun deaths in Detroit then crossed the river into Windsor and the cop said Windsor had one gun death in 5 years and it was related to Detroit. It's a great doc.

AquamosH
08-19-2003, 10:47 AM
I loved this movie, esp. when he showed how the U.S. was tied with coups in Latin America, and other mass deaths to the tune of "What a Wonderful World".

kevie88
08-19-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
I personally think that from what i saw of the movie (which i admit was not all) i thought it was pretty stupid, and i think Michael Moore is a complete jackass. As for his whole stance against guns..whatever....he s entitled
*snip*
starving in Canada that we need to sink billions into the gun registry...

I think Mike Moore wasn't really attacking guns, he' s attacking the "gun culture" (ie shoot first, ask questions later).. He shows in the documentary that there are more guns in Canada per capita than in the states, and there is only a miniscule amount of gun crime. I think the show is more of a statement on American culture than it is guns.

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 10:55 AM
if people REALLY cared about saving lives in North America..... before banning guns (which isn t even on the top ten list of causes for death) I suggest banning cars, alchohol, smoking, french fries, etc. How so much time and money can be spent registering and banning guns and just plain talking about it.........:rolleyes:

kevie88
08-19-2003, 11:02 AM
here's some interesting stats on gun deaths in the states, before and after the "Brady Law" (ie a gun control law)

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/related_documents/112901c.pdf

Btw, I love guns, and have a gun safe full of them at home. Again, I think this documentary is more of a question of US culture than it is about guns.

*edit* if you look at the stats in the US, Homicides for the 18-30 age group are usually around the #5 leading cause of death, and firearm homicides make up 70% of those homicides.

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 11:03 AM
oops i forgot my main point....you want to get rid of violence in North America?...... ban TV, movies, and violent video games.... kids are growing up knowing violence as a part of life and are numb to it. Compare violence and murder number to the 50's when they didn t have exposure to what we have exposed our kids to..... Guns aren t the enemy, WE are the enemy, because we support it. We support it by accepting it, and believe me, i m as guilty as anyone....I love action movies, and ya i m even numb to violence on tv etc..... Now I don t have any numbers to back me up, but i would bet money that you could trace the rise of violence and murder with guns to the rise of those acts on tv and movies.

hjr
08-19-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
if people REALLY cared about saving lives in North America..... before banning guns (which isn t even on the top ten list of causes for death) I suggest banning cars, alchohol, smoking, french fries, etc. How so much time and money can be spent registering and banning guns and just plain talking about it.........:rolleyes: I sudgest that you watch the movie before spewing crap from you mouth. Its VERY informative on the topic of ^*'Gun Culture in America'*^. There was something like (from memory) XXX gun deaths in:

250 - germany
175 - france
140 - canada
17800 - USA

what does that tell you? Per capita, America is WAY more violent with their guns. Its a cultural mindset, not the actual firearms, so in that case you are right, its the person who pulls the trigger, but moore never said otherwise.

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 11:07 AM
BTW...the Brady Law was a great idea.....it chould even be longer as far as i m concerned (the waiting period)

Dr. Evil
08-19-2003, 11:08 AM
I have to agree & say that American culture denies the idea that WE (humans) are the problem and blame guns. As mentioned above, there are countries with higher gun per capita rates or more lax laws, and they have LOWER gun crimes.

For example, this movie could have been about the neglected oucast students & what we should do to not ignore youth in trouble... but NO, they focus on the guns. Guns were the symptom not the disease. I know I felt just like shit in high school because I was an outcast, so I rebelled and broke stuff. The teachers punished me which made it worse. If I actually asked for help, some old dude would just say "Oh, you're young... it will pass." What help is that?!

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 11:15 AM
"Spewing crap from your mouth"???? I thought we were discussing.....take it easy hjr.......I didn t realize Mr. Moore was your lover when i called him a jackass..... its an opinion, you have yours I have mine....everything was civil until you started in on this... and by the way..... you just said PER CAPITA.....do you know what that means? Mr. Moore DID NOT use the numbers on a PER CAPITA basis.......

as per http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2002/11/4589.php


In the film "Bowling for Columbine", Michael Moore provides statistics indicating the total number of gun murders in several countries but failed to provide statistics on a per capita basis. By comparing those numbers with the population figures for those countries from the CIA World FactBook 2002, I discovered the following:

A citizen of the U.S. is:
-- 8.7 times as likely as a citizen of Germany;
-- 9.3 times as likely as a citizen of France;
-- 7.7 times as likely as a citizen of Canada;
-- 35 times as likely as a citizen of the U.K.;
-- 11.9 times as likely as a citizen of Australia;
-- 129 times as likely as a citizen of Japan
to be murdered by a gun

Super_Geo
08-19-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
I personally think that from what i saw of the movie (which i admit was not all) i thought it was pretty stupid, and i think Michael Moore is a complete jackass. As for his whole stance against guns..whatever....he s entitled to his opinion.

Well, maybe you should watch the movie before forming such a adoment opinion about it.


But i fail to understand where america/canada is going with this whole logic that "guns are bad".....please. Not once in history has a gun pulled its own trigger to kill someone.... [/B]

Maybe it's because the gun is a tool used to kill things. I don't care if you're hunting (which I personally think is a pretty cowardly "sport." You can kill a deer with that big fucking rifle of yours, boy your dick must be big) or shooting Mary Jane down the street with it, its purpose is to maim, disable, or kill... that's why society as a whole doesn't have a favorable opinion of it. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Usually it's only used in last case scenarios (by the cops, in wars, etc), and it shouldn't be something that the average citizen has.

I don't want to branch off into hunting, which is a totally different can of worms, but who uses a handgun to hunt? Anyone? There arn't people out there busting caps in a moose's ass? Ok, so that rationale for owning a handgun is out... :rolleyes:

And there's statistics that show that, with a gun in the house, you're more likely to shoot someone innocent and NOT someone burglarising the house.

I personally don't understand why people want to keep guns in the house. And they act like some unbelieveble thing has happened when their little kid finds it and accidently shoots someone :rolleyes:

hjr
08-19-2003, 11:39 AM
sorry, that was harsh. My bizad. but that doesnt chang the fact that you didnt watch the movie, yet felt compeled to lable is a bad. If you did watch it you would see that he wasnt bashing guns, just the gun culture. Alrighty, im out.

accordboi_02
08-19-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
oops i forgot my main point....you want to get rid of violence in North America?...... ban TV, movies, and violent video games.... kids are growing up knowing violence as a part of life and are numb to it.

Time for rant:

Just so you know the whole learning from TV thing is absolute bullshit. I know people can cite thousands of studies that show kids who watch power rangers and shit are more aggressive, etc... but if this is true, how come there are no studies on other types of shows?? Will a girl watching Sex & the City want to go out and be a slut? Will a guy watching Will & Grace want to be gay and live with a female roomate? The answer: NO. The only reason why people use violence so much is that it is sensationalistic and it will get their papers published faster (espeically if its a Psyc paper - they'll publish anything).
If you want to know the real problem, it is the self control of the people who have the guns. If they have none, they will be idiots and shoot other people; if they do have self control (like you seem to have) they will be responsible, and use guns in the way in which they were intended. Eliminating violent shows/games, etc is not going to fix the problem. Teaching kids self control when they're young will. Not only should there be gun-registration, I think there should also be licensing for parents, so we can keep the poorly raised kids to a minimum.

---End of Rant---

air_mikey
08-19-2003, 01:06 PM
i personally hated this movie. it was so long and boring. ended up walking out of the theatre. the only part i found interesting was when they showed the footage inside of colombine. other then that it was really boring.

Melinda
08-19-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by accordboi_02


Time for rant:

Just so you know the whole learning from TV thing is absolute bullshit. I know people can cite thousands of studies that show kids who watch power rangers and shit are more aggressive, etc... but if this is true, how come there are no studies on other types of shows?? Will a girl watching Sex & the City want to go out and be a slut? Will a guy watching Will & Grace want to be gay and live with a female roomate? The answer: NO.
Actually it has been proven in MANY studies that people will psychologically start "identifying" with their favorite TV/movie characters...Sex and the city was one of the shows used in one of the studies...will and grace wasn't but u get the point...it was published a while ago in psycology today

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 01:12 PM
hey Smurf or Super Geo whatever.... I admitted i didn t see ALL of it....but i saw enough to form an opinion baed on what i DID see.... and i disagreed....hope thats ok with you. As for my opinions on hunting, don t put words in my mouth please. I too do not think hunting is a sport, but i don t see anything wrong with hunting..... like it or not we are part of the food chain .... man has not survived on beef and pork raised in a feedlot alone throughout time... And when did we start talking about HANDGUNS only.... i thought we were talking about guns in general..... first its GUNS that are the problem, now you are basically saying that its HANDguns that are the problem ya?
And as for the "kid that finds it and accidently shoots someone..." Well if you read what i first posted you wold see that thats the parents fault for not properly educating that kid on gun saftey etc. What do you think a kid who hasn t been taught is gonig to do when all he sees of a gun is on tv, people getting shot and then finds a real gun not knowing anything and thinks its a toy and blows away little brother...... is that the guns fault or the parents? i choose the latter. Sure you can say "well if the gun wasn t there he couldn t have shot little brother...." Ya and if the tree wasn t there he couldn t have climbed it and fallen and broke his neck either...... Its bout eduacting our kids and not relying on the tv to be a babysitter

Super_Geo
08-19-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
Well if you read what i first posted you wold see that thats the parents fault for not properly educating that kid on gun saftey etc.

What I'm wondering is why the gun is there in the first place. Why does there need to be gun in the house? What's with this buillshit mentality that it's everyone's right to carry a gun?

sexualbanana
08-19-2003, 01:27 PM
Do you think there's any merit in needing an M16 for for home protection or hunting?

But the whole issue of how kids get a hold of guns and their perception of guns is entirely preventable. How? Oh I dunno, how about a little something called parental supervision? The effects of TV aren't as bad as people say. I grew up watching ultra-violent movies like Robocop and Bloodsport. Never once have I wanted to go shoot things.

accordboi_02
08-19-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Melinda

Actually it has been proven in MANY studies that people will psychologically start "identifying" with their favorite TV/movie characters...Sex and the city was one of the shows used in one of the studies...will and grace wasn't but u get the point...it was published a while ago in psycology today

Identifying is not emulating.

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 01:34 PM
Umm...well, I would like to be the first to welcome you to North America..... First off, I d like to introduce you to a document called the Constitution.....now although this is the U.S Constitution.... this is where the "bullshit mentality that its everyones right to carry a gun" comes from...... its the second ammendment and it goes something like this.....
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes that the US Constitution......but i agree with it, and that where it comes from.....

Maybe you should have paid a little more attention in high school.

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 01:39 PM
and for the record..... No i don t think there s any need for an M16 for hunting or protection...... I don t believe that military weaponry has a place in private homes......

sexualbanana
08-19-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
and for the record..... No i don t think there s any need for an M16 for hunting or protection...... I don t believe that military weaponry has a place in private homes......

Don't guys think that they were slightly unbalanced?

SaskS14
08-19-2003, 02:42 PM
Just to make things interesting take a look at this link:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Now what does everyone think about this 'documentary'?

kevie88
08-19-2003, 02:59 PM
That website is just as biased as it says Moore is..

E36M3
08-19-2003, 03:45 PM
Did you actually watch the movie? I'm not sure where you got the guns are bad part from. Michael Moore showed that Canada has a ton of guns, but nobody uses them to kill people, and that it is *fear* that causes Americans to shoot each other.


Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
I personally think that from what i saw of the movie (which i admit was not all) i thought it was pretty stupid, and i think Michael Moore is a complete jackass. As for his whole stance against guns..whatever....he s entitled to his opinion. But i fail to understand where america/canada is going with this whole logic that "guns are bad".....please. Not once in history has a gun pulled its own trigger to kill someone....ya sure there have been accidents etc, where maybe a gun has fallen and went off, but that wasn t the guns fault. Society has convinced itself that gun are the enemy......that couldn t be further from the truth. Its the people and the lack of education thats the problem. When do people see guns these days? Well lets see.....you see them in movies, you see them on tv, you see them in newspapers, and magazines. And how do you see them? Usually as murder weapons, or at least people being shot with them. A whole generation is growing up not knowing what their intended use was for......hunting and protection. All we see are 10 year olds in the middle east waving around AK-47's like they were water guns and we think "oh thats sad" and ya it is..... but society s view of guns are now warped. I was 12 when i got my first .22. I was taught to respect it, and i was shown what it was capable of. I was taught its uses, and what it was NOT meant for. The problem i think, is that the only thing people learn about a gun today, is how to pull the trigger. And the only exposure to guns is in the media. People like Michael Moore and Rosie Odonnell who are so dead set against guns, are people who just need a cause, something to get them in the spotlight, they know no more about guns that i do about making movies or being fat and obnoxious. They both blame Columbine and kids playing with guns, on the guns themselves....... try blaming the parents and the lack of guidence instead. In canada the law was passed to "register" all firearms...what a joke. There is no way that ALL the firearms will ever get registered....they said "it will allow the police to know if there is a gun inside the building if there is an altercation". What a load of crap..... so what if the cops think there is no firearms, and they storm in......they storm into a loaded arsenal of guns pointed directly at them...... talk about UNprepared....... thats even worse than not knowing.... And then there s the billions that its cost us the taxpayers..... Good thing there are no people starving in Canada that we need to sink billions into the gun registry...

CelicaST-162
08-19-2003, 04:02 PM
i went to see it in the theatre, i didnt want to see it, but the girl i was with wanted to....let her have her way so i can get into her pants lol......well i hated it, it was so long and boring, like what air mikey said....it was a waste of my 12 bucks!!

Wildcat
08-19-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
Umm...well, I would like to be the first to welcome you to North America..... First off, I d like to introduce you to a document called the Constitution.....now although this is the U.S Constitution.... this is where the "bullshit mentality that its everyones right to carry a gun" comes from...... its the second ammendment and it goes something like this.....
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes that the US Constitution......but i agree with it, and that where it comes from.....

Maybe you should have paid a little more attention in high school.

US consitution was made well before your grandaddy was born, it has no merit now.... throw that arguement out the window.. its garbage...

secondly, whats with all this yipping about media influence and video games, bad parenting, etc.... what ever happened to just being fucking crazy??? please... videogames what a cop out.. :rolleyes:

lastly, the numbers dont lie.. america has a problem with killing each other whether you want to admit it or not... if you dont see a problem then you might as well stick that .22 to your chin...

accordboi_02
08-19-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat


secondly, whats with all this yipping about media influence and video games, bad parenting, etc.... what ever happened to just being fucking crazy??? please... videogames what a cop out.. :rolleyes:


:werd:

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 05:09 PM
when did i say that i don t think america has a problem with killing each other.....ya i think thats pretty obvious.... But the problem is not the guns..... its the people (gangs are a HUGE part of that) We are lucky that up here in Canada we don t have NEAR the gang problem they do down in the states nor the organized crime..... sure it exists up here but not like down there..... If you were to eliminate those two demographics, do you not agree that the death by firearm numbers would be vastly DEcreased? And if you agree with that, the i would venture to say that the guns are not the problem, but rather the people who are using them......gangs and mafia.
As for the US Constitution not having any merit? Are you really that stupid? Seriously..... i m not calling you names, but thats a pretty ignorant statement. So why even bother having laws..... why bother with a bill of rights? The Canadian bill of rights was written a long time ago..... you have the right to free speech on here...... or should we just say that it was written a long time ago, and say that it "has no merit" With the way our country is going, i m sure our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves...i know i would be.

And with regards to all my "yipping".... hey man, I play violent video games once in awhile, i watch violent movies once in awhile, and all that....... I m also a grown man.... some of the stuff thats on tv, a little kid should not be exposed to until they reach a certain maturity level of which they can understand..... Thats where the parenting comes in....... as far as "just being crazy" ya there are some of those people in the world...... but let me ask you this..... don t you think those shooters at Columbine MAY have had different lives had they grown up in a healthy family? They were outcasts man...... they had a lot of problems and they did some pretty psycho things..... was that an inevitable thing they would have done no matter their upbringing?? I doubt it.

Super_Geo
08-19-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
Umm...well, I would like to be the first to welcome you to North America..... First off, I d like to introduce you to a document called the Constitution.....
....
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Before you quote something next time, read it and try to understand it as a whole. Seeing as how you've obviously been in North America longer than I have (apparantly I just got here), which part of North America's security hinges on the general populous bearing arms? Can you name a few? Or even one?

B17a
08-19-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
but let me ask you this..... don t you think those shooters at Columbine MAY have had different lives had they grown up in a healthy family? They were outcasts man...... they had a lot of problems and they did some pretty psycho things..... was that an inevitable thing they would have done no matter their upbringing?? I doubt it.

I havent' followed this whole thread but I do agree with this point. I think that most of these kids gone bad shootings stories due to upbringings. I don't know the stats but I'd presume that 40 years ago the number of violent crimes by kids is not nearly where it is today. This would lead me to believe that "fucking crazy", yes they are, but why are they is a better question. Family life.

Super_Geo
08-19-2003, 05:21 PM
Wait, I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but could part of the reason the Columbine shooters went off be that they were constantly picked on??!! What about putting some of the blame on the assholes at the school? Push anyone far enough and they'll snap.

I'm not saying that what happend was normal, but I think having a group of people pick on you all the time will have one hell of a lot more impact on your outlook on things than a video game :rolleyes:

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 05:26 PM
smurf....

it says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

I didn t write it

And when exactly did i say that it was the fault of a video game entirely for what happened at Columbine? I used violent video games as an EXAMPLE of how society has become numb to violence...... NUMB TO VIOLENCE..... Violence has become the source of a GAME to us...... We get a kick out of shooting someone one a video game...even each other.... is it fun? Ya , i love playing Medal of Honor..... but that shows how we are numb to it all.....

Super_Geo
08-19-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
smurf....

it says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

I didn t write it


That's half a sentense... I'll say it again: stop reading only what you want to see and take the meaning of the entire sentence.


And when exactly did i say that it was the fault of a video game entirely for what happened at Columbine? I used violent video games as an EXAMPLE of how society has become numb to violence...... NUMB TO VIOLENCE..... Violence has become the source of a GAME to us...... We get a kick out of shooting someone one a video game...even each other.... is it fun? Ya , i love playing Medal of Honor..... but that shows how we are numb to it all..... [/B]

I didn't say that you said anything of the sort.

Wildcat
08-19-2003, 07:07 PM
guy... your really treadin uphill ont his subject... lemme break it down for ya..


Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
when did i say that i don t think america has a problem with killing each other.....ya i think thats pretty obvious.... But the problem is not the guns..... its the people (gangs are a HUGE part of that)

gangs have guns... not a strong argument, we both know that if guns were less accesible on the streets that there would be less deaths

We are lucky that up here in Canada we don t have NEAR the gang problem they do down in the states nor the organized crime..... sure it exists up here but not like down there..... If you were to eliminate those two demographics, do you not agree that the death by firearm numbers would be vastly DEcreased?

organized crime is the least of your worries... was columbine organized? i think not.... and if crime was really "organized" do you think you will ever hear about it on tv? of course not

And if you agree with that, the i would venture to say that the guns are not the problem, but rather the people who are using them......gangs and mafia.

now your just stereotyping...

As for the US Constitution not having any merit? Are you really that stupid? Seriously..... i m not calling you names, but thats a pretty ignorant statement.

Christ almighty...the only reason that POS was written was to protect the settling american citizen from french invasion because a strong militia was not yet formed so the average american citizen was given rights to take justice in his owns hands as a backing to defending the newly formed and growing country

So why even bother having laws..... why bother with a bill of rights? The Canadian bill of rights was written a long time ago..... you have the right to free speech on here...... or should we just say that it was written a long time ago, and say that it "has no merit"

so off topic im not even going to bother... this is not applicable in any way to gun laws

With the way our country is going, i m sure our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves...i know i would be.

we live in different times... i cold give a fuck what some guy in his grave thinks...

And with regards to all my "yipping".... hey man, I play violent video games once in awhile, i watch violent movies once in awhile, and all that....... I m also a grown man.... some of the stuff thats on tv, a little kid should not be exposed to until they reach a certain maturity level of which they can understand..... Thats where the parenting comes in....... as far as "just being crazy" ya there are some of those people in the world...... but let me ask you this..... don t you think those shooters at Columbine MAY have had different lives had they grown up in a healthy family? They were outcasts man...... they had a lot of problems and they did some pretty psycho things..... was that an inevitable thing they would have done no matter their upbringing?? I doubt it.

Parenting is important i agree... people should beat theyre kids more often...

4wheeldrift
08-19-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

I love that movie...they need to play it in every classroom in america...4wheedrift who in town sells it Ive been looking to buy it for my dad..thans I just picked up a copy from A&B sound for $25

Si1ent_A5sa5sin
08-19-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Super_Geo


What I'm wondering is why the gun is there in the first place. Why does there need to be gun in the house? What's with this buillshit mentality that it's everyone's right to carry a gun?

Man.. common.. thats just plain stupid... "WHY IS THERE A GUN IN THE HOUSE IN THE FIRST PLACE?" Jesus Christ.. guns are a part of life.

I used to live in Newfoudland. I was raised there... and spent ALL my free time outside school with my great Grandfather up until i moved to Calgary at the age of 10.

My great grandpa has 7 guns in his house... 3 from World War 2 (he was a soldier) and the rest belongs to his daughter, his grandsons, and me (his great grandson.)

My great grandfather taught me how to use a gun when I was 6. He would bring me back into the woods behind his house and we would hunt things, or sometimes just get some practice in. he taught me how to load a gun, dis-assemble and re-assemble a gun, how to clean it, and how to PROPERLY use it.
He taught me many other things aswell, including how to really fish (how to gut a fish, take out bait, cook it over flame, etc..) and how to set snairs.

I know this stuff just incase i ever need to use it. He taught me lessons he thought were valuable to a young mans development.
Im not going to go to my school and shoot everyone just because im picked on... Those kids were morons with bad upbringings, I think they needed more attention from there parents and family...

Anyways, guns are a part of life... not EVERYONE deserves to have a gun... just like those stupid fuckers in Colombine... all i think is that there should be a more in-depth check into people who are applying to get a gun.

Steve R

Gonein60...ft.
08-19-2003, 08:38 PM
Wildcat...
Someone should prbably cut you off...... i hope your not driving tonight:rolleyes: Oh and thanks for "breaking it down for me"hahahahhahaha I feel SOO much smarter after reading your post.....:rolleyes: too tell you the truth i think i lost a few brain cells reading that..

hjr
08-19-2003, 10:28 PM
Im going to say it again. Guns are not the issue, every country has guns. Its the GUN CULTURE in america that make firearms dangerous, not the actual weapon itself. The majority of developed countries dont have the gun violence problems the US does, what does that mean, its the culture.

FN49
08-19-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by sexualbanana
Do you think there's any merit in needing an M16 for for home protection or hunting?

In CANADA which is where most of the users on this board live M16 s are prohibited weapons along with all other fully automatic weapons. Even in the states I believe you can not buy fully automatic weapons (legally).

AquamosH
08-19-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by SaskS14
Just to make things interesting take a look at this link:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Now what does everyone think about this 'documentary'?

:rofl: I think this site was written by some disgruntled filmmaker who never got any recognition or something.


Originally posted by kevie88
That website is just as biased as it says Moore is..

:werd:

Abom
08-19-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by kevie88
I think the show is more of a statement on American culture than it is guns.


Exactly correct.

sexualbanana
08-20-2003, 12:49 AM
One of the things I found disturbing was the blind guy with a marksmen license (or whatever) who said that he's mose comfortable with an assault rifle.

Redlyne_mr2
08-20-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by SaskS14
Just to make things interesting take a look at this link:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Now what does everyone think about this 'documentary'?
Haha yah that website is beat...Moore wasnt trying to gain anything by producing that movie, he was trying to reveal the truth to close minded americans who have been lied to by their government for hundreds of years. On that website it ends with asking for money..wtf is that? To those who are making uneducated, ignorant comments I suggest you all watch the movie and do some research on the subject...guns arent bad...the americans have become an incredibly frightened, uptight culture with something to prove

Gonein60...ft.
08-20-2003, 10:59 AM
ok I just finished watching it.....all 1:57:45 of it.....
First off.....I ll say that I didn t really care for it. I thought it had some good points, but in general, i didn t lik it. I thought it was too....convienient..... I didn t like the way a LOT of the interviews were so neatly spliced by the editors to curb the way you view it and force you to feel a certain way. I don t believe it was a documentary, for documentaries are based soley on fact not the opinion of the film maker.... IMO.

I am still trying to figure out what Moores point truly was. He seems to go back and forth the whole time, and that i don t think can be argued. First he starts about guns being bad. Then he wants to know why people are shooting each other. Then guns are bad. Then its why are people hurting each other. Tehnits guns are bad. Then its the governments fault. Then its guns are bad. Then its K-Mart and stores fault. Then guns are bad.
I don t know, i honestly agree with some of his points.... assault and handgun ammo shouldn t be so readily available... true. Military weaponry has no place in a home. But he doesn t have a real precise point. Is it the people, or is it the guns? Is it both? I found it funny how he made Canada seem like such a perfect little place...... but his biggest point was how Canada has just as many guns per capita or roughly, but we don t have the murder stats they do in the US....so basically, GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!!!! Its the people, so why does he keep picking on the NRA and Mr. Heston? I thought that was pathetic how he was chasing Mr. Heston badgering him in his own home. Sure he shouldn t have have rallys when he did as it was pretty insensitive..... But how is it the NRA's fault that the murder #'s are so high.... Is it the members who are doing the shooting? no. How many gang bangers are in the NRA do you think?? NOt many i would guess.....

sexualbanana
08-20-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
But how is it the NRA's fault that the murder #'s are so high....

I think Moore's trying to say that the NRA's stance on being able to own ANY type of gun is contributing to the problem.

Wildcat
08-20-2003, 03:02 PM
I think the NRA has a huge part of it, i beleive that the US government wouldve implamented gun laws long ago if ther wasent an NRA. Problem is that 3rd party organizations like that have lots of power and contribute to a huge amount of the voting.



Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
Wildcat...
Someone should prbably cut you off...... i hope your not driving tonight:rolleyes: Oh and thanks for "breaking it down for me"hahahahhahaha I feel SOO much smarter after reading your post.....:rolleyes: too tell you the truth i think i lost a few brain cells reading that..

dont take it personally that i cut you down, just because i listed fair and vaid points you take it upon yourself to attack me personally... :rolleyes: please... if you were so much smarter start working on a somewhat respectable argument and rebuttal... this is supposed to be a debate of opinions not a flame war... GROW UP

bksze
08-20-2003, 04:48 PM
i think that this argument can go on forever . . . regardless of how valid that documentary was . . . it was definitely biased . . . When one sets out to prove a theory, the result of his work will always be biased towards his original intent . . . Michael Moore obviously thought that there was a problem with guns in the US, so he went out and proved it. That dude with the website, was exactly the same, just vice versa.

All in all, I thought it was an awesome piece of work. I don't nkow if I can say I fully agree with the whole movie but it definitely was very persuading.

Keep in mind, Moore only showcased the negatives of guns. He didn't show guns killing crazed psychos rescuing hostages. Had someone wanted to take the alternate position, one could've easily done it just as well.

Gonein60...ft.
08-20-2003, 04:54 PM
a debate of opinions....exactly...thats the brightest thing you ve said yet....

"don t take it personal that i cut you down?"

Man i didn t take anything personal...... so don t worry about that...:) But no matter how many times i read it....i just don t see your "fair and VALID points"


the people who are using them......gangs and mafia.

now your just stereotyping...

So its not fair to stearotype gangs and the mafia as being leaders in the murder by gun rate?

And if the "POS" Constitution IS indeed such a POS..... why do you think they still use it? Why not get rid of the whole thing after its usefulness was thru?

and your parents should beat their kids more comment...... ya thats funny hey...... ask a kid who was abused for 8 years how funny that is...... some comments like that whether meant as a joke or not are not always funny

Wildcat
08-20-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
a debate of opinions....exactly...thats the brightest thing you ve said yet....

"don t take it personal that i cut you down?"

Man i didn t take anything personal...... so don t worry about that...:) But no matter how many times i read it....i just don t see your "fair and VALID points"



So its not fair to stearotype gangs and the mafia as being leaders in the murder by gun rate?

And if the "POS" Constitution IS indeed such a POS..... why do you think they still use it? Why not get rid of the whole thing after its usefulness was thru?

and your parents should beat their kids more comment...... ya thats funny hey...... ask a kid who was abused for 8 years how funny that is...... some comments like that whether meant as a joke or not are not always funny

id really like to see numbers on gang-related death rates if they really exist; compared to accidental deaths by guns; minors with guns, unlicensed gun use, public with milita weaponry, etc..

i dont know the numbers but im pretty sure gangs are not the problem, just people in general..

as for the consitution... they wouldve and shouldve gotten rid of it but the cant... we all know americans are ignorant people (like it or not) so the running office could never justify removing it no matter what. could you imagine the votes lost because of it? the NRA would never go for it EVER. Third parties have alot more power than people think.

all in all; i think the hole america has dug itself is way to deep to get out of.. and it seems to me that the only thing that matters nowadays is the voting majority (which is completely corrupt due to third parties and political apathy). like.. you cant make any money if you dont get into office right? it boils down to money and power... and if you try and eliminate guns in the US to lose both... no votes = no money = no power

the US political hands are tied down, as far as i can tell theyre fucked.. thank god i dont live ther..

as for the kid beating thing sorry... but time-outs are bullshit! ;)

Gonein60...ft.
08-20-2003, 10:02 PM
http://childrensinstitute.org/stats/Table155.html

kinda short on time, but in under 2 min. i found that site and numbers.... notice that that in LOS ANGELES COUNTY alone?? 807...i would say thats fairly high.... granted not 100 percent would be by gun, but you d have to think the vast majority are.... and if thats in ONE city..... hmmm, ya your right gangs aren t the problem.... in fact they are just a very VERY SMALL part of the problem....... whatever

Wildcat
08-20-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Gonein60...ft.
http://childrensinstitute.org/stats/Table155.html

kinda short on time, but in under 2 min. i found that site and numbers.... notice that that in LOS ANGELES COUNTY alone?? 807...i would say thats fairly high.... granted not 100 percent would be by gun, but you d have to think the vast majority are.... and if thats in ONE city..... hmmm, ya your right gangs aren t the problem.... in fact they are just a very VERY SMALL part of the problem....... whatever

doesnt say anything about guns man :dunno: knifes are more of an issue with gang related deaths

hjr
08-20-2003, 11:15 PM
right, so lets agree to disagree, OK? Because this could go on forever. Take a step back everyone and decide if your "E-Feelings" are really that big a deal. Thanks.


Adam

Redlyne_mr2
08-20-2003, 11:50 PM
Bottomline..having a yahoo like Bush as President is only making things worse for the american people and the world

sexualbanana
08-21-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Wildcat

as for the consitution... they wouldve and shouldve gotten rid of it but the cant... we all know americans are ignorant people (like it or not) so the running office could never justify removing it no matter what. could you imagine the votes lost because of it? the NRA would never go for it EVER. Third parties have alot more power than people think.

The whole constitution is not garbage like you say it is. Some amendments are stupid like the 2nd, but the right to free speech, freedom of religion, all that is still valid.

Second, you can complain that everything politicians do is for votes but every political ideology has it's faults. Dictatorships leave nations at the mercy of a single person. Communism doesn't cater to human nature. Monarchies emphasize the social elite. Democracy is the closest to a true representation of people.

If an action causes the loss of 49% of votes, it's still the better decision because that policy is still supported by 51% which is still the majority. Thus it represents what most of the voters want.

accordboi_02
08-21-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Bottomline..having a yahoo like Bush as President is only making things worse for the american people and the world

:werd:

"Worst President Ever"

Wildcat
08-21-2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by sexualbanana


The whole constitution is not garbage like you say it is. Some amendments are stupid like the 2nd, but the right to free speech, freedom of religion, all that is still valid.

Second, you can complain that everything politicians do is for votes but every political ideology has it's faults. Dictatorships leave nations at the mercy of a single person. Communism doesn't cater to human nature. Monarchies emphasize the social elite. Democracy is the closest to a true representation of people.

If an action causes the loss of 49% of votes, it's still the better decision because that policy is still supported by 51% which is still the majority. Thus it represents what most of the voters want.

sorry my bad, i just meant the 2nd amendment to bare arms in particular, not the whole thing

as for voting, yes the majority may represent what the voters want but i beleive that votes are swayed too much due to third party influence (NRA) as ive mentioned before.

nickopolis
09-18-2003, 08:46 PM
I heard hes working on a new movie about the connections the Bush family had with the Bin Laden family and all this conspiracy stuff around sept 11 should be a good movie. Roger and me(by him as well) is also a great movie if you like this kind of thing.

sxtasy
09-19-2003, 11:32 PM
I thought this movie was pretty good. I usually find controversial movies interesting. Obviously this movie was some what biased, look at it as writing an essay, you have a point that you want to get across to the viewer and use examples and information that you have gathered to bring the viewer to your point.

From what I got from this movie (saw it a while ago and can't remember everything) Moore was not blaming guns, as he showed that Canadians had just as many. He believes that it is the media and culture that are to blame... The media has caused the American people to be fearfull of each other and everyone else. The negative impact of guns, in this movie, is that they are too readilly available to a culture of fear (in K-mart even). The by-product of easy access to guns and a culture of fear, is death to many people.

Gonein60...ft.
09-20-2003, 12:20 AM
i disagree somewhat....
the media in the US is no different than it is in Canada.....
guns are just as readily available (k-mart is no different than Cdn. tire or Wal-mart)..... the biggest difference is TYPE of guns mostly handguns. those are harder to get in Canada...and those are the guns that are primarily killing people south of the border...when was the last time you heard of a gang banger doing a drive by or alley shooting with a bolt action .303 or a saddle gun?

the thing i found hilarious was when he was going around saying how nobody locks their doors in Canada.....give me a break, i d like to do a poll on here as to how many people DON T lock their doors.....