C&D Test: M3 beats GT-R, 911 Turbo LOL

[rage2]

http://digg.com/autos/Proof_that_Car_Driver_is_in_bed_with_BMW

WTF? haha. Everyone's already speculated about the 3 series on the C&D 10 best list for the last what 20 years? because BMW sucks their cocks, but this pretty much confirms our suspicions.

Seriously, BMW wins every comparo in C&D, it's retarded haha. And every BMW ad for the 3 series refers to C&D reviews. It's a conspiracy! Or every C&D employee showers in Jagerbomb. One or the other.

BTW here's the retarded article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/2008_bmw_m3_vs_2009_nissan_gt_r_vs_2008_porsche_911_turbo_comparison_test

[EIT07]

Yeh I read it yesterday and thought wtf... Even though it's the cheapest doesn't make it the best bang for the buck.

[schocker]

That is some serious bs. I dont see why they tend to use those paramaters for rating cars of this category. Oh the 911 has a tiny trunk and tiny back seats, who cares, only c&d apparantly. The m3 is a good car, but not that good.

[rage2]

I'll do a translation of the article (the BMW part).


In this group of radical cars, the M3 emerged quickly as the voice of reason. The extremist voices of the Porsche and the GT-R are just not present in the M3. It never shouts, utters complaints, or makes any unbecoming demands. Road and tire noise are subdued, the fabric-covered seats are perfect, and there is a back seat and a real trunk. But even with those attributes, the M3 doesn’t skimp on supercar performance. It just happens to be dressed in a polished and practical package.
Translation: The M3's pretty boring, but I'll wrap it around some bullshit to make it look awesome.


Even without the optional adjustable electronic dampers, our M3 test car displayed a better ride-and-handling compromise than either the 911 or the GT-R. Handling, both on the track and public roads, matched the GT-R in our individual scoring. But the M3 goes about its business differently. The GT-R steamrolls the tarmac into submission in an eerie sort of way; the M3 allows the driver to use the car as an instrument. Not many cars can play the road—the car world has more fakers than a middle-school band concert.
Translation: The last gen M3, we accepted the rough ride because it gave us great handling. But now that BMW have softened up, we'll spin it so it's a positive and bash the harder rides of the other cars.


As one test driver put it, “The M3 is the car that the driver has the most control over.” Oversteer, understeer, and neutrality are all on the M3’s résumé, but they’re dependent on the driver’s inputs. The chassis has no surprises, no snap reactions, no bad habits—even midcorner bumps are sopped up without drama. Strong brakes have excellent initial bite and didn’t fade even after many, many laps. The BMW’s lap time lagged 1.5 seconds behind the 911 Turbo’s, but that translates to an average speed throughout the lap that was only 0.3 mph slower than the far more powerful Porsche. Thus the BMW, though suffocated by the thin air at 4200 feet, managed to make up most of the difference by cornering faster.
Translation: The BMW is so underpowered I can't get it to do stupid stuff! The GT-R kicked my ass, so I'll just compare to the 911.


Unlike the heavyweights, the BMW feels smaller the harder it is driven. Part of that feel is due to light steering, but the importance of having the lowest mass and the narrowest width also plays a huge role.
Translation: We used to bitch out all the AMG cars for light steering, but now that our cocksuckers have that problem, well... it's no longer a problem!


It is immediately obvious (especially at altitude) that the M3 isn’t as quick as its turbocharged competition, but 0 to 60 mph in 4.4 seconds is nothing to scoff at, either (other M3s we’ve tested have been slightly quicker). A naturally aspirated 4.0-liter V-8 can’t deliver the massive torque of the blown sixes, but the M3 delivers its 414 horsepower in a linear and consistent manner from idle to its 8300-rpm redline. No lurching, no drama, no sudden explosions of boost. And the sound the BMW V-8 makes is due a Grammy. It’s a V-8 note not often heard outside racetracks, while the Nissan and the Porsche both sound as though they could wear a Dyson label.
Translation: zZzZzZzZ


If you’ll overlook the now cliché complaints about the iDrive control system and the car’s light steering, the M3 didn’t draw any negative words in its logbook. And the iDrive gripe is easily solved by not ordering the $2100 optional navigation system.
Translation: If you ignore all the problems, we have no problems! What a concept!

Seriously, what a fucked up review haha.

[boxer23]

^ genious:rofl:

[schocker]

No lurching, no drama, no sudden explosions of boost. And the sound the BMW V-8 makes is due a Grammy. It’s a V-8 note not often heard outside racetracks, while the Nissan and the Porsche both sound as though they could wear a Dyson label.
That is a dick move on their part. Yah, the 911 and gtr sound like vacuums, and insane performance, who wants that. Not me, give me the subdued bmw that sounds nice, worthy of a grammy apparantly.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Hahaha, what the gay? :rofl:

[bashir26]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: at rage2
If M3>GTR>911 Turbo it would mean a Dinan 335i is a "better buy" than M3>GTR>911 turbo.

[heavyD]

It's not just C&D that has a bias with BMW. Motor trend has a comparison of the EVO X MR vs the 135i and they give the victory to the 135i despite the fact that the MR crushes it around the track by 3 seconds/lap and has in their words a 'stunning transmission' is almost $8K less but in their opinion the MR rides too rough compared to the 135i on the streets so the Bimmer wins.

In the same magazine they test a bunch of CUV's and give the Nissan Rogue 2nd place despite the fact that it has a bone jarring ride that is by far worse than the rest. They forgave it because it handled the best.

WTF is it? Best handling or softest ride the streets? It's like the moment they get behind the wheel of a BMW the comparison is pretty much decided regardless of performance/price factors or purpose of the comparison.

[ZMan2k2]

It's comparo test results like this one, that made me drop my subscription to C&D years ago. I haven't picked up an issue since. I see that not much has changed. They really should change the name to "BMW & Driver."

[Ferio_vti]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
They really should change the name to "BMW & Driver."

More like 'BMW & Douche Driver"

I'll continue reading Jalopnik, thanks.

[kenny]

http://digg.com/autos/Proof_that_Car_Driver_is_in_bed_with_BMW

I love the translations by rage2. The homepage version is much milder :rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by kenny
http://digg.com/autos/Proof_that_Car_Driver_is_in_bed_with_BMW

I love the translations by rage2. The homepage version is much milder :rofl:
If I wasn't a BMW owner myself, I would've been a lot more harsh haha.

[schocker]

Originally posted by rage2

If I wasn't a BMW owner myself, I would've been a lot more harsh haha.
Too bad your bmw has the bad qualities that the gtr and 911 have though, blown six, too much power, too much boost. It must therefore sound like a dyson:rofl:
C&D is out to an 89coupe lunch with this, maybe in the next issue there will be a Dinan 335i and 135i thrown in and because they are cheap and powerful they will become the new kings.

[benyl]

Look at the reviews of the article at the bottom of the page. Everyone is saying that C&D takes it up the butt from BMW.

[rc2002]

Originally posted by schocker

C&D is out to an 89coupe lunch with this

:rofl: :rofl:


The last C&D comparo I read about the BMW, awarded top honours to the BMW even though the car wasn't even running properly when they drove it. I'm sure there's a lot of politics with these magazines and I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers probably paid off the magazines for good reviews...

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by heavyD
It's not just C&D that has a bias with BMW. Motor trend has a comparison of the EVO X MR vs the 135i and they give the victory to the 135i despite the fact that the MR crushes it around the track by 3 seconds/lap and has in their words a 'stunning transmission' is almost $10K less but in their opinion the MR rides too rough compared to the 135i on the streets so the Bimmer wins.

In the same magazine they test a bunch of CUV's and give the Nissan Rogue 2nd place despite the fact that it has a bone jarring ride that is by far worse than the rest. They forgave it because it handled the best.

WTF is it? Best handling or softest ride the streets? It's like the moment they get behind the wheel of a BMW the comparison is pretty much decided regardless of performance/price factors or purpose of the comparison.

That is stupid. As hot as the GT-R is for peeps with bags of cash, the EVO X is as hot for normal folk.

Best car ever sub $40k IMO.

[treg50]

:werd:

C&D and BMW bang each others husbands and they share each others cottages. There has to be some kind of co-ownership going on.

Good comment at the bottom of the page about how retared C&D is:

I have to agree with Adam's assessment of car and driver. You guys really absolutely love BMW. The M3 is clearly slower than the other two around a track, on a test for track worthiness, and yet it still comes out on top. That just doesn't make sense. Not only that, but the M3 just isn't what it used to be. A chipped 335i can come close or take an M3 around a track these days. Considering the power and amazing driveability of the GTR and the Turbo, there is no way in hell that the M3 should have one this (let alone even be in the lineup, but hey, how else are you going to give BMW top honors if they aren't included, might as well have compared these two to the 128i, still probably would have one). Canceling my subscription now....

C&D is fucked up with their bias for BMWs.

[Redlyne_mr2]

And this is why Top Gear America would not have worked.

[redline]

Originally posted by lewdvig


That is stupid. As hot as the GT-R is for peeps with bags of cash, the EVO X is as hot for normal folk.

Best car ever sub $40k IMO.

the EVO MR is 50K+

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
And this is why Top Gear America would not have worked.

Why do you speak of Gear in the past tense? They're still auditioning for presenters.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rage2
I'll do a translation of the article (the BMW part).


Translation: The M3's pretty boring, but I'll wrap it around some bullshit to make it look awesome.


Translation: The last gen M3, we accepted the rough ride because it gave us great handling. But now that BMW have softened up, we'll spin it so it's a positive and bash the harder rides of the other cars.


Translation: The BMW is so underpowered I can't get it to do stupid stuff! The GT-R kicked my ass, so I'll just compare to the 911.


Translation: We used to bitch out all the AMG cars for light steering, but now that our cocksuckers have that problem, well... it's no longer a problem!


Translation: zZzZzZzZ


Translation: If you ignore all the problems, we have no problems! What a concept!

Seriously, what a fucked up review haha.

Brilliant translation. It all makes sense now!

[max_boost]

Originally posted by bashir26
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: at rage2
If M3>GTR>911 Turbo it would mean a Dinan 335i is a "better buy" than M3>GTR>911 turbo. YES!

So many 335 owners on Beyond. 335 = Best Buy! LOL

[heavyD]

Originally posted by redline


the EVO MR is 50K+

That is Canadian unbalanced Mitsubishi pricing. The MR in the test was $38K US while the 135i came optioned up to over $45K US off the top of my head.

[redline]

Originally posted by heavyD


That is Canadian unbalanced Mitsubishi pricing. The MR in the test was $38K US while the 135i came optioned up to over $45K US off the top of my head.

faking scammers :thumbsdow

[TaiChino]

The fact that this is coming from a bimmer owner is what makes this thread so good. It's nice someone can be honest and admit that something is biased without being biased themselves (because of the car they drive). Most fanboys, no matter what their car preference, while reading an article such as this would get high and mighty and shout to the world that their car is superior even if they knew deep down that it wasn't.

+rage2

[Eleanor]

As one test driver put it, “The M3 is the car that the driver has the most control over.” Oversteer, understeer, and neutrality are all on the M3’s résumé, but they’re dependent on the driver’s inputs.

So you mean that a RWD car will throttle oversteer & braking understeer!?!?!?!?! :eek:

No shit sherlock!


The GT-R steamrolls the tarmac into submission in an eerie sort of way

That's exactly what you want when you're looking at these cars :whipped:

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Why do you speak of Gear in the past tense? They're still auditioning for presenters.

No, they're not.

I updated one of the Top Gear in US threads a week or two ago. I would provide a link but I'm having a lazy day until work.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Why do you speak of Gear in the past tense? They're still auditioning for presenters.
There was an article not long ago that stated NBC is dropping the idea.

[ToastiER]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
And this is why Top Gear America would not have worked.

Amen, as much as I used to think Clarkson is a douche, I respect his honesty these days. He still lacks technical knowledge but I actually do get a kick out of him now.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

There was an article not long ago that stated NBC is dropping the idea.

The article was total speculation and proved to be quite incorrect. Auditions are ongoing and production is still underway. Two presenters have already been chosen, and Xzibit auditioned last week. Andy Wilman wrote today that everything is still ongoing and that he has high hopes for the show. He's also stated that he does not intend for it to be a Top Gear clone, rather a show with a different direction entirely.

Trust me, if there's anyone on Beyond that knows what's going on with the 3 Top Gear shows, it's me. I'm an addict. :D

[nightfx]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


The article was total speculation and proved to be quite incorrect. Auditions are ongoing and production is still underway. Two presenters have already been chosen, and Xzibit auditioned last week. Andy Wilman wrote today that everything is still ongoing and that he has high hopes for the show. He's also stated that he does not intend for it to be a Top Gear clone, rather a show with a different direction entirely.
Truth, read this on finalgear a few days ago. Not really excited for the American Top Gear but at least the new season of the original starts June 22nd! :D

[ToastiER]

I am going to predict it will suck terribly, and be one big advertisement for the highest bidder, like most things american on TV these days.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


The article was total speculation and proved to be quite incorrect. Auditions are ongoing and production is still underway. Two presenters have already been chosen, and Xzibit auditioned last week. Andy Wilman wrote today that everything is still ongoing and that he has high hopes for the show. He's also stated that he does not intend for it to be a Top Gear clone, rather a show with a different direction entirely.

Trust me, if there's anyone on Beyond that knows what's going on with the 3 Top Gear shows, it's me. I'm an addict. :D
That's what I figured, that's why I was surprised to hear that you didn't know about it getting canned even though it seems as if we were all wrong and you were right. As for having Xzibit on the show.. I think that guy needs to stick to putting 20 subwoofers in the back of 84 accord wagons.

[Xtrema]

C&D lost credibility long ago.

Why would they try to compare super cars to fast car that's base on a mass production model in the first place?

BTW, C&D is also Honda's favorite whore.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


The article was total speculation and proved to be quite incorrect.

Lame. :thumbsdow

[bashir26]

Originally posted by rage2

If I wasn't a BMW owner myself, I would've been a lot more harsh haha.


Rage2 at DTP Calgary:

me - "so how do you like BMW?"
rage2 - " I fuckin hate it"
me - ":confused: "

[rage2]

Originally posted by bashir26
Rage2 at DTP Calgary:

me - "so how do you like BMW?"
rage2 - " I fuckin hate it"
me - ":confused: "
Try taking a BMW to one of the local dealers for anything and you'll understand. A simple oil change took 2 days, left me without a car. I HAD to buy a 2nd car just so I can take the BMW in for service. Not to mention the 1.5 month wait just to get in there. I heard it's 4 months now that they treat USDM owners like shit.

I miss good old MB service. Call in, schedule for 1 week later, drop off car, get dropped off at work, get picked up after work, simple. For warranty stuff that takes more than a day, they give me a C coupe or ML to beat around in, and if they're out, they'll rent me a car. That's how it's done.

[gpomp]

^weird. calgary bmw had a crapload of loaners the last time i was there.

[me&you]

Originally posted by gpomp
^weird. calgary bmw had a crapload of loaners the last time i was there.

Word. I called to get a squeek in my dash fixed... Calgary BMW offered for me to bring the car in later that day. That wouldn't work, so they offered the next day, then the next, etc... loaners available as well.

And C&D is a joke, but I find myself reading one if it's lying around, just for a good laugh. Kind of like watching a bad movie...

[heavyD]

Originally posted by rage2

Try taking a BMW to one of the local dealers for anything and you'll understand. A simple oil change took 2 days, left me without a car. I HAD to buy a 2nd car just so I can take the BMW in for service. Not to mention the 1.5 month wait just to get in there. I heard it's 4 months now that they treat USDM owners like shit.

I miss good old MB service. Call in, schedule for 1 week later, drop off car, get dropped off at work, get picked up after work, simple. For warranty stuff that takes more than a day, they give me a C coupe or ML to beat around in, and if they're out, they'll rent me a car. That's how it's done.

Sounds like they have different service levels for US imported Bimmers lol which is a joke.

[me&you]

Originally posted by heavyD


Sounds like they have different service levels for US imported Bimmers lol which is a joke.

Why is that a joke? If you run a business and you have 5 calls coming in, wouldn't you take the calls from your existing and loyal clients first? Just makes sense to me.

I've bought US and Canadian BMWs in the last couple years. I knew that one of the trade-offs of getting what I want from a US car (colours/options/price) was that I'd take a back seat to get it serviced. One of the off sets of saving some dough up front...

[SilverRex]

hmm probablly all the reviewers at C&D gets to drive a new BMW everytime BMW wins 1st place in any catagory.

:thumbsdow

[hampstor]

Originally posted by me&you


Why is that a joke? If you run a business and you have 5 calls coming in, wouldn't you take the calls from your existing and loyal clients first? Just makes sense to me.

I've bought US and Canadian BMWs in the last couple years. I knew that one of the trade-offs of getting what I want from a US car (colours/options/price) was that I'd take a back seat to get it serviced. One of the off sets of saving some dough up front...

I'd be curious to see how they treat owners who have bought their cars at other dealers in Canada...

[benyl]

Originally posted by hampstor


I'd be curious to see how they treat owners who have bought their cars at other dealers in Canada...

They treat you like shit regardless.

The 330 was bought at Calgary BMW and service on occasion at Gallery. Same owner, they treat you like dirt.

Got the 335 at Gallery. Had to get some quick things looked at. Treated like shit and we bought the car from them.

Can't wait to bring in my M3. It is due for an oil change in 4K kms. Maybe I should make an appointment now?

[blownz]

The article is definitely stupid. People would never be cross-shopping those vehicles. Sure the M3 is better as a daily driver with the odd track time, but I'm pretty sure anyone looking at buying the GTR or 911Turbo already has a pretty impressive daily driver so they aren't worried too much about a small back seat or rough ride.


And as for the BMW vs MB dealership, Calgary must be the opposite of Edmonton because I had just booked an oil change for my 3 series and I got in 4 business days later (not bad). And my boss just went to the Benz dealership where he buys at least one new 100K+ car a year and they told him 6 weeks for his 08 S550 to get an oilchange. A phone call to the other dealership netted a 5 week wait. He also spends a ton at the BMW dealership and when he takes a car in for service, they let him pick out a loaner car from the lot (only rule was no M cars) and he usually takes something like a 550 or 650. Bottom line, one or two dealerships does not equal every dealership for that manufacturer.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by lewdvig
the EVO X is as hot for normal folk.

Best car ever sub $40k IMO.

It's got the performance numbers for sure. But I have a hard time calling a car "best" in class when it looks like ass and shares a body (for the most part) with it's ~$20k compact econobox sibbling.

But at least it's not as ugly as the STi.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Inzane


It's got the performance numbers for sure. But I have a hard time calling a car "best" in class when it looks like ass and shares a body (for the most part) with it's ~$20k compact econobox sibbling.

But at least it's not as ugly as the STi.

It's easy to be best in class when there is really only two cars in the class LOL. Really in the price range there isn't a better overall performer than the EVO X especially in MR trim as it has possibly the best twin clutch automatic available in any car at any price.

[Redlyne_mr2]

This month's Road and Track compared the z06, gtr and porsche 911 turbo. The m3 was left out of the competition, the wouldnt be foolish enough to compare it to the likes of those 3 cars.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by me&you


Why is that a joke? If you run a business and you have 5 calls coming in, wouldn't you take the calls from your existing and loyal clients first? Just makes sense to me.

So in your opinion being loyal means willing to spend thousands more for the same car? I call that stupid not loyal. Never feel sorry for the car dealerships and manufacturers. They make alot of money and in return screw alot of consumers over. They have been making bonus money for years off of our dollar disparity and now that has changed they still want to keep that bonus money. None of them care about you only your money.

IMO if you sell the brand you service the brand regardless of where is was purchased.

[bashir26]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnR1FlUJoQo - One of the most classic videos I have ever seen. "Mercedes magic black rock" LMAO

[Inzane]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
This month's Road and Track compared the z06, gtr and porsche 911 turbo. The m3 was left out of the competition, the wouldnt be foolish enough to compare it to the likes of those 3 cars.

That's right, the M3 belongs in a comparison with C63s, IS-Fs, and RS4s. It makes no sense to put the M3 against those other cars.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by heavyD

especially in MR trim as it has possibly the best twin clutch automatic available in any car at any price.

I bet the one in the Veyron is better :)

On another note, I definitely lost a little respect for C&D after reading this comparison. The 911 apparently did bad "primarily due to lack of trunk space" lol. Who buys a 911 turbo to haul shit around.

[blownz]

Originally posted by heavyD


So in your opinion being loyal means willing to spend thousands more for the same car? I call that stupid not loyal. Never feel sorry for the car dealerships and manufacturers. They make alot of money and in return screw alot of consumers over. They have been making bonus money for years off of our dollar disparity and now that has changed they still want to keep that bonus money. None of them care about you only your money.

IMO if you sell the brand you service the brand regardless of where is was purchased.


You are blaming the dealership though when they don't set the msrp. The Candian dealers are getting ripped off by the manufacturers themselves. They are not buying at the US prices and then making some crazy markup. They are buying from Ford Canada or whoever at the inflated price and have no choice but to sell at a price that makes them a few bucks.

I personally don't blame them for putting a priority on their customers.

[rc2002]

Originally posted by heavyD

So in your opinion being loyal means willing to spend thousands more for the same car? I call that stupid not loyal. Never feel sorry for the car dealerships and manufacturers. They make alot of money and in return screw alot of consumers over. They have been making bonus money for years off of our dollar disparity and now that has changed they still want to keep that bonus money. None of them care about you only your money.

IMO if you sell the brand you service the brand regardless of where is was purchased.

I agree that paying more for the exact same car is stupid if you can get it cheaper. And in theory, selling the brand means you should service it regardless of where it was purchased.

But in reality, business is business. And any competent business owner would give priority to people who bought vehicles at their dealership. I know I would.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
But in reality, business is business. And any competent business owner would give priority to people who bought vehicles at their dealership. I know I would.

It's not that they are prioritizing CDN buyers, they are penaltizing US buyers. Big difference. Sure I can understand them prioritizing Joe Blow that bought a car from the dealership but to put off servicing and not supply courtesy vehicles, etc is petty IMO. They are purposely sticking it to US buyers.

[blownz]

Now I think you are just making assumptions ("sticking it to US buyers"). The few people I know with US vehicles don't actually have any problems getting service. They might wait a day or two longer for service, but they aren't aware of it and it obviously isn't significant enough to be an issue.

[redline]

Originally posted by heavyD


Really in the price range there isn't a better overall performer than the EVO X especially in MR trim as it has possibly the best twin clutch automatic available in any car at any price.

And you know this from your extensive long term tests of twin clutch cars?;)

[gpomp]

Originally posted by redline


And you know this from your extensive long term tests of twin clutch cars?;) what about everyone's extensive drives of the GTR and M3?

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by schocker

C&D is out to an 89coupe lunch with this

A sure fire way to make sure 89coupe doesn't post in a thread is to bash him early on in it. Seems to work well, perhaps after this comment he'll post in this one though. :dunno:

Although regarding the article; a Z4M will compete quite well to a Boxster S, but the nod going to Porsche for the handling of its mid-engine layout. So how a 911 Turbo fails incomparison to an M3 sure blows me away:nut: