WTF is wrong with people? No one helps a hit and run victim. [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

rage2

06-05-2008, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Crymson
Knowing the world today, if you touched him, and he died, you'd find yourself in court facing a 10 million dollar lawsuit.
Bingo. It's happened several times before, and will happen again.

If I was in that situation, I would call 911 immediately, and not do anything either. I'm not a doctor, for all I know, moving the guy == paralysis.

hampstor

06-05-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Crymson
Knowing the world today, if you touched him, and he died, you'd find yourself in court facing a 10 million dollar lawsuit.

That's a common misconception ...

Most Provinces/states have a "Good Samaritan Act" that removes liability for 'first on scene' people unless they perform actions that are found to be grossly negligent . In Alberta, it's called the 'Emergency Medical Aid Act".

Protection from action

2 If, in respect of a person who is ill, injured or unconscious as the result of an accident or other emergency,

(a) a physician, registered health discipline member, or registered nurse voluntarily and without expectation of compensation or reward renders emergency medical services or first aid assistance and the services or assistance are not rendered at a hospital or other place having adequate medical facilities and equipment, or

(b) a person other than a person mentioned in clause (a) voluntarily renders emergency first aid assistance and that assistance is rendered at the immediate scene of the accident or emergency,

the physician, registered health discipline member, registered nurse or other person is not liable for damages for injuries to or the death of that person alleged to have been caused by an act or omission on his or her part in rendering the medical services or first aid assistance, unless it is established that the injuries or death were caused by gross negligence on his or her part

http://www.qp.gov.ab.ca/Documents/acts/E07.CFM

So basically, if you stopped to help the guy by moving him onto the sidewalk and try to stop the bleeding you would not be found liable if he dies. If you moved him into traffic and he gets hit again by a car and dies, then you will most likely be liable!

Supa Dexta

06-05-2008, 04:12 PM

I was sitting at a light one day a few yrs back, when a bike wiped out and slid down the road, bounced off a curb and he was laying there. I put my 4 ways on and jumped out, crossed the street to help him up, and to get the bike out of the way.... And get this, the light had turned green and people were blowing their horns getting mad at me for blocking traffic.. Go fuk yourselves idiots, not one other person stopped, or got out to help.. :rolleyes: macleod.. and stampede park area..... 25th?

94boosted

06-05-2008, 04:13 PM

Everybody in this day and age has cell phones why the fuck wouldn't somebody just call 911 :dunno:

rc2002

06-05-2008, 04:21 PM

Calgary is no longer a small town - you can't give everyone the benefit of the doubt anymore. The few good samaritans left are probably all scared after reading all the stories about people getting owned when trying to help others.

Xtrema

06-05-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by hampstor
If you moved him into traffic and he gets hit again by a car and dies, then you will most likely be liable!

The definition of gross negligence can still be up for debate.

One of 4 things may happen:

1) you will be the hero and on front page
2) you will be hurt other unknowns in the situaiton
3) you will be drag thru court and be cleared
4) you will be drag thru court and lose

I will call 911 if the person is in trouble, stick around and help if it's safe. Most people are not equipped to deal with a scene like that. But the least you must do is call 911 and stick around until help arrives.

Big city folks understand that it doesn't pay to be a hero in most cases. But that story and pictures are disgusting.

silviafreek89

06-05-2008, 04:53 PM

Xtrema

06-05-2008, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by silviafreek89
edit: Not saying "ha" to the guy that got hit, it's a shame what happened and I can only assume that he ended up OK!

No he's not and sounds like he may still die from this. 78 year old can probably die from a sneeze, let alone a hit and run.

But you are right about American justice. Everyone will sue and it's probably cheaper to settle than going to trial.

Kloubek

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Nice addition Hampstor. I too believed that you can be sued up until a couple of months ago.

Shift: I know the incident you are talking about. I guess people didn't help because they thought they would be in danger. But I'd gladly take the opportunity to beat the crap out of a dickwad like that and not get in trouble for it.

As it turns out, his four friends joined him soon after. So if someone DID step in to help, he would be a target too then. But I think after one of the crowd went in to help, the rest would follow.

Not unlike sheep.

97'Scort

06-05-2008, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by hampstor

That's a common misconception ...

Most Provinces/states have a "Good Samaritan Act" that removes liability for 'first on scene' people unless they perform actions that are found to be grossly negligent . In Alberta, it's called the 'Emergency Medical Aid Act".

Correct, but gross negligence can extend to performing care outside your training. For example, I am trained to handle spinal injuries. I can instruct a bystander to perform actions to help stabilize somebody. But if somebody without that training attempted to do the same thing, no matter how helpful they were trying to be, and wound up hurting the person, that's considered gross negligence.

Also, Quebec is the only province in Canada that requires, by law, a witness to an accident to call emergency services or render aid if so trained. Every other province you could walk away without any legal responsibility to inform authorities.

g-m

06-05-2008, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Calgary is no longer a small town - you can't give everyone the benefit of the doubt anymore. The few good samaritans left are probably all scared after reading all the stories about people getting owned when trying to help others. ^ yea dude I was truly suprised when a guy in a truck stopped to help me after I hit a deer at night on 22x and this was like 2 weeks after that guy barely got away after stopping to help some guy and got jumped.

I would probably think twice after all the stories in the paper

Maddog55

06-05-2008, 06:39 PM

The whole "I'm not gonna help him cuz I might paralyze him and get sued...." Biggest chicken shit cop-out shirk your responsibilities as a human being excuse I've ever heard. And anyone actually bringing that argument up as an excuse not to help doesn't deserve the term human being

Fuck that....if I see someone hurt laying there I wouldn't think twice about stopping and helping anyway I can. even its its to hold his hand and throw my jacket over him while help arrives. I've done this three times in my life. Came upon accident victims and helped out.

The only thing that I CAN see ppl shying away from is jumping in the middle of violence to help. Best thing is call 911 and be a witness. I knew a guy who jumped in on a street fight, thinking he's helping..only to be curb-stomped to death. Case in point is that poor guy who jumped in on the girl getting smacked. Great guy....but look what it cost him. He would've been better off to sit there, call 911 and get a good look at the assaulters.

szw

06-05-2008, 07:22 PM

There are a lot of other reasons people don't help that I dont think are really properly understood. Sure its easy to say "of course I would help them in that situation" but I'm sure alot of those same people would have said the same thing a week earlier. The "i'm might get sued" I think is just an excuse and its just human nature.

http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/10/why-we-dont-help-others-bystander.php

This is just a small, not so scientific article...you can look up a lot of info if you're interested.

ianmcc

06-05-2008, 07:39 PM

He was jaywalking; anyone notice that? Would not have happened if he crossed at the light.

Graham_A_M

06-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
I was sitting at a light one day a few yrs back, when a bike wiped out and slid down the road, bounced off a curb and he was laying there. I put my 4 ways on and jumped out, crossed the street to help him up, and to get the bike out of the way.... And get this, the light had turned green and people were blowing their horns getting mad at me for blocking traffic.. Go fuk yourselves idiots, not one other person stopped, or got out to help.. :rolleyes: macleod.. and stampede park area..... 25th?

Good Lord. That and the recent incident in Marlborogh with that guy trying to help that women.

Sickens a person to their core. Absolutely disgusting.... just.... disgusting.
:nut:

tabouli

06-05-2008, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by 94boosted
Everybody in this day and age has cell phones why the fuck wouldn't somebody just call 911 :dunno:

Bingo.

You don't have to jump out of car, and hold the dying body in your arms while screaming for an ambulance ... The last time I was first on scene at an accident, it was a bloody fucking MESS (on 22x, biker accident head on). Everyone kept a distance and didn't move anyone as the situation wasn't getting any worse, and no one knew the proper care to administer.

But people used their phones.

1 person called CPS
1 person called EMS
1 person called injured family #1
1 person called injured family #2

Emergency response was within 150 seconds, and no one died.

Like I said, you don't have to physically involved to help.
These days, you don't even need to stop the car and get out. Just make a call and keep driving.

Rocky

06-05-2008, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Calgary is no longer a small town - you can't give everyone the benefit of the doubt anymore. The few good samaritans left are probably all scared after reading all the stories about people getting owned when trying to help others. Exactly. Poor Calgary isn't what it used to be. If it came to somebody seriously injured or a car accident in front of me, I'd like to believe I'd help. If it was a physical altercation, I probably wouldn't -- shit's too dangerous these days (getting jumped for helping some stranger out, for example). Plus I'm not much of a fighter :P

Graham_A_M

06-05-2008, 09:04 PM

^ I'll bet that person that was jumped wasn't neccessarily a "fighter" either per se', leave alone considering his family (taht was even present). Although he didn't let that get in the way of trying to do what was right. :dunno:

01RedDX

06-05-2008, 09:19 PM

hampstor

06-06-2008, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by 97'Scort

Correct, but gross negligence can extend to performing care outside your training. For example, I am trained to handle spinal injuries. I can instruct a bystander to perform actions to help stabilize somebody. But if somebody without that training attempted to do the same thing, no matter how helpful they were trying to be, and wound up hurting the person, that's considered gross negligence.

Good to know - I won't try to perform emergency surgery with a pocket knife. However if it comes down to Life over Limb, and a person is in a life threatening location, I will move the person to a safer location and risk paralzying him rather then leaving him where he is and possibly dying. It all comes down to the situation.

Also, Quebec is the only province in Canada that requires, by law, a witness to an accident to call emergency services or render aid if so trained. Every other province you could walk away without any legal responsibility to inform authorities.

You know society is fuckin weak when they have to enact a law that requires people to stop and help.

treg50

06-06-2008, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by silviafreek89
HA!!! This was in Connect-the-cunt USA...
I thought the same thing, I was like "Hartford"?? Seriously, since when did they become so fucked in the head. Even a modern, earth-friend son-of-a-fag on a scooter did a slow circle around the guy then took off!?

No wonder they lost the Whalers, if they can't even care about an old man struck down by cars in traffic! This is the perfect moment where a couple of cars stop, fire up the hazard lights and call 9-1-1, and wait for help. W T F?

tm.88

06-06-2008, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Crymson
Knowing the world today, if you touched him, and he died, you'd find yourself in court facing a 10 million dollar lawsuit.

when i took my first aid course they said that if there was any lawsuit against me the EMS board or something is the one who gets the lawsuit and they go to court on behalf of me.

rage2

06-06-2008, 02:01 PM

It's not the same in the states. Many bystanders helping out have been successfully sued... pretty retarded.

Honestly, I've witnessed bad accidents, stuck around, called 911. I've used my car to block, and wave traffic around. I'm not going to attempt any medical attention, I'm not qualified for it, and if people think that's heartless, that's too fucking bad.

In the states, if you stick around and do nothing, you can get sued. If you stick around and help out, and something goes wrong, you can get sued. If I was in the states, I'd call 911 and take off too. I'll bet TONS of people are like that, and you can only blame their fucked up legal system, where it's cheaper to settle and lose in lawsuits.

Zephyr

06-06-2008, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by rage2
It's not the same in the states. Many bystanders helping out have been successfully sued... pretty retarded.

Honestly, I've witnessed bad accidents, stuck around, called 911. I've used my car to block, and wave traffic around. I'm not going to attempt any medical attention, I'm not qualified for it, and if people think that's heartless, that's too fucking bad.

In the states, if you stick around and do nothing, you can get sued. If you stick around and help out, and something goes wrong, you can get sued. If I was in the states, I'd call 911 and take off too. I'll bet TONS of people are like that, and you can only blame their fucked up legal system, where it's cheaper to settle and lose in lawsuits.

That's very true. The only thing you can really do without suffering consequences later is to call for help. People love money, and when they have any slight chance to get some, they'll milk it for all it's worth.

shirshamshir

06-06-2008, 02:50 PM

if in the case of that guy helping the woman
would he get jailed if he used a weapon to clear off the guys?
say a bat/stick or something?

or is there an act if it was for good cause? heh

szw

06-06-2008, 07:25 PM

Its just human nature not to do anything, the law stuff is just an excuse

no_joke

06-07-2008, 09:41 AM

^^^
Agree. Just look at the recent "Office meltdown" video online. People just DO NOT want to get involved. I saw an episode of Oprah where they looked at how people react to certain situations. They had actors pretending to do something questionable/criminal in plain sight of passers-by and then observed the response. Most of the time, people just put their blinders on and just want to mind their own business. It's sad events like this hit-and-run that really highlight this point.

hondaluv

06-07-2008, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by rage2

Bingo. It's happened several times before, and will happen again.

If I was in that situation, I would call 911 immediately, and not do anything either. I'm not a doctor, for all I know, moving the guy == paralysis.

yup I would do the same CALL 911

treg50

06-12-2008, 11:10 AM

Update: Tragic News For Elderly Hit-And-Run Victim

(CBS/ AP) Doctors say the victim of a hit-and-run that was caught on videotape and viewed by a national audience will never breathe again without a respirator.

Angel Acre Torres, who is at Hartford Hospital, also will never return home, a family member said.

Torres was paralyzed from the neck down in the May 30 incident. He was struck by one of two cars that crossed the center line.

...
78 years old, survives a hit-and-run, but is now paralyzed from the neck down. Pretty f'ing terrible, 78 and going strong... and in an instant things turn out like this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/11/national/main4172680.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4172680

rage2

12-20-2008, 08:56 PM

It took 4 years after the accident, but California Supreme court ruled that a Good Samaritan saving her co-worker can be sued.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6498405&page=1

msommers

12-20-2008, 09:14 PM

The flaw I see here is that, the victim was conscious and as an emergency rescuer, are required to ask permission to help. While they seem to be friends or 'aquantinces' as the article mentions, I suppose by law that doesn't matter; there is a victim and a rescuer, that's it. It is only when the victim is unconscious that there is assumed consent.

BerserkerCatSplat

12-20-2008, 09:17 PM

:facepalm:

revelations

12-20-2008, 09:39 PM

Stop discussing the idiocy that the USA and lets turn back to to Canada.... people are getting the wrong mindset and will think twice in terms of American policy when it comes time to stop and lend a hand.

Here in Alberta, just use your common sense - and the good samaritan act will protect you.

If you witness a fight, you dont go break it up unless youre a trained fighter and are willing to take on both combatants, , and are aware they might ba carrying weapons.

If you witness a serious MVA, you DONT move the victims unless there is imminent danger to them.

revelations

12-20-2008, 09:40 PM

Another thing, 90% of people are passive by nature when it comes to acting in a time of need quickly, so having people do nothing shouldnt be a huge suprise.

rage2

12-20-2008, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by revelations
Stop discussing the idiocy that the USA and lets turn back to to Canada.... people are getting the wrong mindset and will think twice in terms of American policy when it comes time to stop and lend a hand.

Here in Alberta, just use your common sense - and the good samaritan act will protect you.
Why? This case has *everything* to do with Canada/Alberta or wherever you are. There's a good samaritan law that protects you when you offer help in California, yet the court ruled otherwise. This exact scenario could happen in Alberta too. It all depends how good the lawyer is.

revelations

12-21-2008, 12:32 AM

The complainant would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the rescuer was TRYING to cause harm to the victim. What would you charge the rescuer with? Aggravated assault?

As an aside, I have heard of cases where someone was wearing a DNR (do not resucitate) bracelet/tatoo and was revived and ended up being all pissed off - but in America, someone has probably gotten sued for that.

bignerd

12-21-2008, 12:36 AM

I have also heard that here in Alberta that once you start assisting someone who has been in an accident or needs first aid you are not allowed to leave by law until someone more qualified than you comes along... (obvioisly certain situations you would have to leave the vicitm to get help. i.e. camping in the woods alone etc...) This is what I was told when I took first aid here for work.

You also cannot give any medication to anyone, if someone is having a heart attack and needs thier pills you can put it in their hand and life their hand to their mouth but not put the medication directly in their mouth.

Too many god damned rules.

hampstor

12-21-2008, 01:39 AM

hrmm, hopefully the next time that bitch is injured, people leave her to die. Oh the irony in that :)

97'Scort

12-21-2008, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by bignerd
I have also heard that here in Alberta that once you start assisting someone who has been in an accident or needs first aid you are not allowed to leave by law until someone more qualified than you comes along... (obvioisly certain situations you would have to leave the vicitm to get help. i.e. camping in the woods alone etc...) This is what I was told when I took first aid here for work.

You also cannot give any medication to anyone, if someone is having a heart attack and needs thier pills you can put it in their hand and life their hand to their mouth but not put the medication directly in their mouth.

Too many god damned rules.

Quebec is the only province that has a law that says you can't stop rendering aid. If you feel that what you are doing isn't helping you're allowed to stop. It's true with the medication, unless they are basically dead without it and you can prevent it. If you know how to give somebody an epi-pen and they're unable to do it, just give it to them. If they are having a heart attack and you have aspirin, or they're clutching some nitro pills, give them some. Don't take things too literally, ever. The risk of a lawsuit is, in my mind, worth the chance to save somebody's life.

mazdavirgin

12-21-2008, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by 97'Scort
Quebec is the only province that has a law that says you can't stop rendering aid. If you feel that what you are doing isn't helping you're allowed to stop. It's true with the medication, unless they are basically dead without it and you can prevent it. If you know how to give somebody an epi-pen and they're unable to do it, just give it to them. If they are having a heart attack and you have aspirin, or they're clutching some nitro pills, give them some. Don't take things too literally, ever. The risk of a lawsuit is, in my mind, worth the chance to save somebody's life.

No you have that backwards. In Quebec you can't walk past someone who needs help and choose not to help them(The good samaritan act). In Alberta you can as long as you are not being paid by your employer to render aid aka if you are a nurse/doctor/first aider for a company you are legally required to render assistance. Anyways once you start providing assistance no matter the province you are required to render aid until someone else takes over or they die. You cannot walk away mid treatment and not follow things through. You would need to at minimum attempt to get help or report the situation to the authorities.

yue

12-21-2008, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by SCHIDER23
:eek: :eek: wow that is just sad and this fucker saids "One witness, Bryant Hayre, told the Courant he didn't feel comfortable helping Torres, who he said was bleeding and conscious." WTF
:banghead:

you are an idiot for thinking this witness was being unreasonable.

he's logical enough to admit he didn't know what to do and acted on that fact instead of trying to re-enact some scene he saw on house.

if i was the victim of a similar circumstance i would not want anyone touching me who was not a physician or an ems responder. unless you're trained and experienced in this field you don't know what the hell you're doing and can needlessly cause more damage.

97'Scort

12-21-2008, 01:53 AM

Right. I knew Quebec had something odd about theirs. But you CAN stop if the symptoms progress to a point that you don't know how to handle it, and by "stop" I mean stop physically rendering aid, not failing to call an ambulance.

sofakingdom

12-21-2008, 02:10 AM

The bystander effect is a social psychological phenomenon in which individuals are less likely to offer help in an emergency situation when other people are present. The probability of help is inversely proportional to the number of bystanders.

Jlude

12-21-2008, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Zephyr

That's very true. The only thing you can really do without suffering consequences later is to call for help. People love money, and when they have any slight chance to get some, they'll milk it for all it's worth.

My gf was walking down the street one day near our apartment in Cali when some guy on his bicycle came off of a cycling trail way too fast and ran into her on the sidewalk. (she wasn't paying attention either, she was talking on her phone). They both fell down, she ended up hitting her head on the ground, she had a nasty cut and bump on the back of her head. The guy on the bike was fine.
That whole day and everyday for the next couple of weeks he kept calling to check on her and see if there was anything he could do to help or take her and I out for dinner or anything to make up for it. She couldn't believe how nice people in California were, then I explained to her how he's probably afraid that she's going to sue him. She never did, cause we're just not like that, but it could have been done.