Muscle Growth.

[shakalaka]

Right well I have been working out for a while now and have seen significant differences. However I am still not where I want to be.

So I am looking for some supplements that would help me in muscle growth. I am taking protein, but i am looking for some others that some of you might have tried and seen noticeable differences with. I workout regularly so I have no problems staying motivated, however it would be nice to see some changes in me that would further motivate me.

My plan is to gain about 10-15lbs of muscle mass and then tone. I am 6.1 and currently weigh around 195lbs. While I am not fat, I still have some fat on the stomach region and chest are that I would like to get rid of. That's why I plan to gain muscle to cover any of the remaining fat and then 'cut'. I know about creatine, but I don't really wanna take it as it fills water mass all over the body including the face from what I heard, and I don't want that to happen.

It would be great if anyone can recommend some supplements other than these you might have tried and seen some changes with.

Thanks

[Oz-]

To be quite honest, supplements might not be the issue. It is likely how much (little) food you are eating. Do you have an idea of what your kcal intake, macro breakdown, meals per day, etc? Start with that before going and spending money on supplements that spend lots of money on telling you that you will get "huge" in the magazines.

Another one might be your routine. Even though you might have been going to the gym 5-10 years and consider yourself advanced because of time spent there. You might not be there strength wise and picking up a routine from Flex or Muscle Mag that worked for Ronnie Coleman will likely not work for you.

[shakalaka]

Well I will agree that my diet isn't that great, but I am trying to bring it to the level it should be at. As far as my routine is concerned, I train with heavy weights, as heavy as I can lift basically and I work on one body part every day and end with 20 minutes of cycling. Usually 5 days a week and sometimes 6.

I know my diet is part of the problem, but I was wondering while I work on that, trying to fix it, whether there were any supplements that could help along the way.

[civic_rida]

6'1 195 is a good size you should be happy.

[1-Bar]

not really, your body weight does not tell you jack about your body composition; which is a better indication of how close you are to your goals....


Originally posted by shakalaka
Well I will agree that my diet isn't that great, but I am trying to bring it to the level it should be at. As far as my routine is concerned, I train with heavy weights, as heavy as I can lift basically and I work on one body part every day and end with 20 minutes of cycling. Usually 5 days a week and sometimes 6.

I know my diet is part of the problem, but I was wondering while I work on that, trying to fix it, whether there were any supplements that could help along the way.

Diet is more then 1/2 the battle....if you can cut out a daily fat/simple sugar source then you're well on your way. IMO you should do a 2-3 day split and go with 3 sets 8-10 reps (roughly) to put on some LBM, if you're going to continue cardio after workouts, I would run intervals on the cycle to burn as much calories/fat as possible....

[5hift]

Originally posted by shakalaka
Well I will agree that my diet isn't that great, but I am trying to bring it to the level it should be at.

When your diet is at "the level it should be at", you will notice your muscle gains will be as well.

Also muscle does not "cover" fat. From the way you are talking you need to do a lot of reading on weightlifting/fitness forums.

If you clean up your diet, up the protein and cut out the empty calories, you will notice that not only are you getting stronger/more muscular, the fat will begin to shed as well on its own, without doing a committed cutting diet.

[colinxx235]

ya you need to get a bit of a different understanding on creatine and stuff as well. Creatine is a great supplement if taken properly, and the "fat look" is water weight, so once you are off the 6 week cycle all you need to do is run for 10 days (or steam if you want to) and the results are quite great.

but in the end what you want is based upon your goals and what point you are in the working out stage. if you just want more weight then ya, eat like a monster and eat healthy. creatine/arganine etc I wouldn't really suggest until you hit a bad peak and are frustrated that you can't surpass certain benchmarks. either way as stated above the first step to refining appearance/workouts starts with diets then move from there...

[Godfuader]

:hijack: I have been thinking about this for a while now too (mass gain) im about 5'9 and 155lbs. I try to hit the gym 2-3 times a week, and have noticed good 'cuts'...but that was expected given the weight. My diet needs some serious balancing, and short of googling 1000s of links, whats the best place to find out a good diet coupled with bulking tips. I considered supplements, but with my travel schedule, i cannot put the dedication to make good use of them. thnx

[shakalaka]

^Yea I second that, is there a place where I could find say a proper diet plan that I could follow everyday for bulking up? It would be much easier than trying to find stuff and measuring the right amount of quantity to eat myself.

[sabad66]

A good way to bulk up is to take those meal replacement shakes that have like 1000 cals/serving. Otherwise pretty much just eat as much food as you can while trying to go as healthy as you can. This means doing your best to stay away from simple carbs like sugar and white starches(white bread, potatoes, white rice), saturated fats.

[SoSlowDx]

I believed I was in the same situation. I used to be 5'7 140lbs. I'm about 190lbs, somewhat of a strict diet. I took Nano-Vapour and noticed more strength and muscle. That's the only thing I ever took btw.

I've stopped taken it after finishing it and decided just to eat healthy before and after work outs (5 days) and I am getting stronger and can see muscle growth.

That's my two cents.

[shakalaka]

What exactly is nano-vapour? Is it an anabolic supplement?

[GTS Jeff]

Fat goes over muscles.

[SoSlowDx]

http://www.vaporexperience.com/product/vapor_faq.shtml#one

[LilaInc]

i heard if you take cell-mass by BSN and also if you take a good protein you will see results.

[YamahaV8]

After you have been taking a good protein supplement your next thing to take would be glutamine. Take this with your after workout shake and then again right before bed. Glutamine will help you recover faster and also helps in cell volumizing. But the biggest benefit is defiantely that it can increase growth hormone release by up to 400%. After that its mostly money wasting.

[civic_rida]

cell mass is crap doesnt do shit i believe it was proven also.

[zipdoa]

If you want to be gaining serious muscle... take steroids!!!

But seriously, you need to be consuming at least 4500/Cal a day... and not 4500 cal worth of subway. the good shit. lean meat, lots of chicken breast, get your fruits and veggies, keep down on the carbs, especially white bread. If you eat a shitload of good food, pair up with glutamine, an excellent whey isolate protein, and some xpand (not necessary, but I like the pump), then you will have no problem gaining the weight you want. However if your routine blows, and you don't do any cardio, you'll just end up porky.

I know how you feel... 1 1/2 years ago I was 6'5 and 170lbs... now i'm 6'7 and 235lbs.

[HoTTNiXX]

Cut your cycling down to 10 minutes every second day and stretch longer after a workout.
Can't gain mass if you're burning off calories right?

[teg_boya]

if your trying to bulk before cutting use true mass by BSN. i just got off of my winter bulk cycle (consisted of true mass and NO xplode) with it and i saw some good results. for the summer i am not starting to cut with hydroxycut ( http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mt/hard.html ) and i am also using vertex ( http://www.heavyweights.net/Vertex-180-caps_p_0-412.html ) for my creatine. Bulking worked well with what i used but i would not recommend NO xplode anymore as i used it for 3 straight cycles, and it does no benefit to my body anymore which is why i moved onto vertex. I just started my summer cut and so far i have started to see good results but i am not completely sure of the turn out yet.

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by zipdoa
I know how you feel... 1 1/2 years ago I was 6'5 and 170lbs... now i'm 6'7 and 235lbs.

65 lbs in 1 1/2? :eek:
that cant be all lean muscle....

[1-Bar]

Originally posted by HoTTNiXX
Cut your cycling down to 10 minutes every second day and stretch longer after a workout.
Can't gain mass if you're burning off calories right?

not true, he will be expending calories (most) from stored fat sources post workout/cardio session. The mass gaining the OP wants is LBM, which is usually done at night during muscle growth/repair.

The key is to find that fine line where you are burning fat stores and not muscle mass.....


Originally posted by teg_boya


65 lbs in 1 1/2? :eek:
that cant be all lean muscle....

Or natural :devil: dun dun dun.....:drama:

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by teg_boya
... i am also using vertex ( http://www.heavyweights.net/Vertex-180-caps_p_0-412.html ) for my creatine. Bulking worked well with what i used but i would not recommend NO xplode anymore as i used it for 3 straight cycles, and it does no benefit to my body anymore which is why i moved onto vertex. I just started my summer cut and so far i have started to see good results but i am not completely sure of the turn out yet.
Recommend Vertex for relative beginner ? (5'9 155lbs, 2-3 workouts a week) Just checking on the website for dosage and it says:

Prescribed Use
Training Days: For maximum results, take 8 capsules 30 – 60 minutes before your workout with 12 ounces of water.

Non-Training Days: Upon wakening, take 8 capsules with 12 ounces of water.

Popping 8 pills a day hardly seems natural or safe.


ps. do post workout PowerBars (Protein+) do anything....or a money waste?

[teg_boya]

Vertex is a very powerful supplement that combined with hard work and a decent diet will get you the body you want. It is safe and it is an natural product (no anabolics!!) as long as you match it with a lot of water. The capsules are also time released so your not getting a huge hit of everything at once. Also, recommended dosage is put on the bottle by the manufacturer which means they will tell you to use more product rather then less so that you sue more product and then buy more product. I use 6 capsules an hour before workout so that about 10 minutes till i workout i am feeling a nice focus and body "rush." It may not be for everyone as some people stick to the old fashioned method of raw protein shake + eating lean protein (chicken...) combined with pumps. As far as creatine products go, capsules such as vertex have proven to be the most effective for me

as far as protein bars and such go... i drink 3 protein shakes a day (morning, lunch, post workout) and the bars are nice if you cant make a drink or something. Sometimes i cant get protein shakes for lunch so i will instead eat a protein bar. The ones i eat are from costco and the have 24g of protein per bar, which is the maximum dosage the body can handle per hour.

[colinxx235]

Originally posted by sabad66
A good way to bulk up is to take those meal replacement shakes that have like 1000 cals/serving. Otherwise pretty much just eat as much food as you can while trying to go as healthy as you can. This means doing your best to stay away from simple carbs like sugar and white starches(white bread, potatoes, white rice), saturated fats.

BADDDDDD advice, don't pound weight gainer shakes, you'll get even more of that fat look, eat good portions + healthy. And also white bread/white rice (wtf) multigrain/whole wheat all the way... white starches + bleach is hard on the somach and unhealthy same with saturated fats. If you have trouble eating large meals, try eating half a cup of natural whole almonds, tasty and helps add some calories/natural fats.

I'm too lazy to quote the other guy about NO explode and stuff, it is quite effective but watch out for all the extra caffeine and addiction, buy pure creatine if you want supplement. And also said was glutamine, great for muscle rebuilding + good joints once you get strong and tear alot.

But a basic diet isn't too hard to design or research, balance and large portions. Diversity in eating was something that never bothered me when trying to pump up, so I basically cooked a massive amount of chicken and threw it in ziploc containers with brown rice. Then packed alot of stuff like peas/carrots/almonds for snacks, and then 95% whey protein + 1% milk everday for extra protein and calcium. Stay away from junk food/fast food/sugar drinks and you will notice a good change in results.

[teg_boya]

^^ ya caffeine is something you got to look out for which is why i stopped using NO because the caffeine was the only benefit i was getting. As far as L-glutomine goes you most likely do not need to buy this as a separate supplement as most protein powders come with enough per serving. Before buying a protein powder, i would def look into how much gluto it has per serving because like stated above it is a key to rebuilding torn muscles:poosie:

[sabad66]

Originally posted by colinxx235


BADDDDDD advice, don't pound weight gainer shakes, you'll get even more of that fat look, eat good portions + healthy. And also white bread/white rice (wtf) multigrain/whole wheat all the way... white starches + bleach is hard on the somach and unhealthy same with saturated fats. If you have trouble eating large meals, try eating half a cup of natural whole almonds, tasty and helps add some calories/natural fats.

I'm too lazy to quote the other guy about NO explode and stuff, it is quite effective but watch out for all the extra caffeine and addiction, buy pure creatine if you want supplement. And also said was glutamine, great for muscle rebuilding + good joints once you get strong and tear alot.

But a basic diet isn't too hard to design or research, balance and large portions. Diversity in eating was something that never bothered me when trying to pump up, so I basically cooked a massive amount of chicken and threw it in ziploc containers with brown rice. Then packed alot of stuff like peas/carrots/almonds for snacks, and then 95% whey protein + 1% milk everday for extra protein and calcium. Stay away from junk food/fast food/sugar drinks and you will notice a good change in results.

Well you clearly can't read because it says do your best to stay away from simple carbs and saturated fats.

And as far as weight gainer shakes go, they are great for really scrawny people that want to get stronger/bigger, faster.

[kutt3r]

Lots of interesting opinions, that is for sure.

First of figure out your eating... and dont look for a one shop answer you need to research a little or pay a dietition. (most personal trainers are morons when it comes to anything, although there are some very reputiple ones as well that could help you, your going to pay one way or another) You need to understand your body and how it processes different food, which turn you could decide to go high protien, fat, or carbs, any will work, but they all work differently and you need to see how your body handles it. (I put on 15lbs & 3%bf with a high pro/fat diet, in 3 months, with just creatine, for those that care that works out to 9lbs muscle and 6lbs fat)

Simple answer to this is take in as many calories as you can, mass bulding = creating a caloric surplus... the trouble with this is that if you take more in it will create more fat, if you are not monitoring bf it can shoot through the roof. You want to take in enough for growth, not much more.

BSN= expensive, decent stuff but there are way better alternatives

Creatine = #1 mass builder (behind steriods) and if it is making you that soft you just wasted your money on trash creatine, the water rention is in your muscles not your skin, if you want to be completely ripped then no to the creatine, but it should not be that noticable and you are trying to gain mass, so guess what you are going to look soft.

Nutrition is not a simple forum topic and as you can see you are going get opinions from all spectrums.

As to the posters that are saying that 65lbs in `1-1/2 years is impossible they have no clue... you know nothing about him so dont generalize... he is 6'5 and he said he grew 2 inches in that time, so I am guessing that he is young and growing=high test=rapid muscle growth, very possible with dedication and his size. (not knowing his body type I am assuming, that it could be done at his height especially if he is mesomorph), my point is dont assume it is illegal drug till you see a needle in his a$$.

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by sabad66


Well you clearly can't read because it says do your best to stay away from simple carbs and saturated fats.

And as far as weight gainer shakes go, they are great for really scrawny people that want to get stronger/bigger, faster.

1. your dumb
2. carbs are key to building muscle. whole wheat bread/multi grain rice ftw
3. buying pre mixed protein shakes is stupid because you are spending money on convenience and from my experience most of those shakes are loaded with sugars to make them taste better. you are much better off getting educated and buying a quality weight gainer from popeyes or GNC

[FilthyMcNasty]

go on bodybuilding.com and buy RPN havoc.

I gained like 10 lbs of lean muscle after 2 months.

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by kutt3r
As to the posters that are saying that 65lbs in `1-1/2 years is impossible they have no clue... you know nothing about him so dont generalize... he is 6'5 and he said he grew 2 inches in that time, so I am guessing that he is young and growing=high test=rapid muscle growth, very possible with dedication and his size. (not knowing his body type I am assuming, that it could be done at his height especially if he is mesomorph), my point is dont assume it is illegal drug till you see a needle in his a$$.

i said that it was impossible to get that much lean muscle mass. Fatty mass yes, lean no. Impossible, even with vertical growth. Unless he grew a third leg or something...

[5hift]

there is so much wrong information here I dont even know where to start. For the guys that are right, I think you are making it too difficult for a begginer.

Darkane has tried so many times to explain it acurately but the thread always gets lost or his posts get buried in everyones personal opinions.

I think the biggest challenge for new lifters is that they overwhelm themselves when its really simple.

Shakalaka, your new to weightlifting, have yet to have a steady consistent workout or a good diet and you already want to start taking supplements? Thats putting the cart way before the horse. Eat clean, a ton of calories and protien and just lift heavy and consistently. Stick to it and you will see results. Save the supplements for when your newbie gains stop and you get stuck in a plateau.

T-Nation.com seems to be a popular choice here, but imo its mostly catered to huge guys/guys on the juice.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/ is my personal favorite. A ton of good articles and info for regular people who cannot bench 3 plates on each side or deadlift more than 500 lbs. Any question you have you can find an answer, there is even a specific sub forum just for getting your diet right as thats the biggest part.

If you are actually serious about getting gains, forget all the bars and shakes and other crap and just start off with reading this.

Bodybuilding primer( answers to the most asked questions):
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=104087

What a bodybuilder eats:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=46565

For your actual workout, I would do a 4 day split with most the focus on compound exercises: Bench press, Deadlift, Squat, Dips, Pullups, chinups is all you would even need if you worked them hard and heavy enough.

Ive been doing the 'Baby Got Back' workout from this site and I've been getting consistent gains throughout the year.
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=255

[b_t]

Hey finally somebody with a good post ^

You can still cycle, but do it before your workout as a warmup and cut the length to 10 minutes of higher intensity. One body part a day workouts don't work very well. Go for compound exercises. The most important part of a successful bodybuilding plan is either squats or deadlifts. Start with one of those exercises, then go to the bench, and then work down to your smaller muscle groups.

Replace all isolation exercises with compound ones, like 5hift said. Instead of curls, chinups. Even a set of three chinups is better than a set of eight heavy curls. Instead of tricep presses or extensions, do dips, etc. Pull ups are quite a bit harder than chin-ups though, if you can't do one with good form, go to lat pulldowns instead.

Also, instead of a stupid abs workout with tons of crunches, go to cable woodchoppers and abs bridges. Woodchoppers hit your whole core at once, and abs bridges make your gut suck in on its own.

Another very important part: keep a log of what you are doing. Fitreach.com works well. Track your weight and reps for every set every day so you can identify progress, and spot problem areas (plateaus).

I won't give you food advice because with my metabolism, I need to eat retarded amounts of food to gain any weight and it would be bad advice for somebody else. Look for Darkane's posts instead.

[kutt3r]

Nice link 5hift, it doesn't get simpler than that...


Originally posted by teg_boya

i said that it was impossible to get that much lean muscle mass. Fatty mass yes, lean no. Impossible, even with vertical growth. Unless he grew a third leg or something...

LOL I can read just fine and it is not impossible (saying that I am sure there was some % of fat as well), but this is coming from the guy that says:

Originally posted by teg_boya


2. carbs are key to building muscle. whole wheat bread/multi grain rice ftw
3. buying pre mixed protein shakes is stupid because you are spending money on convenience and from my experience most of those shakes are loaded with sugars to make them taste better. you are much better off getting educated and buying a quality weight gainer from popeyes or GNC

2. Carbs are not key to building muscle... protien is, the amino acids in protien are. A high pro/fat diet is a very good mass building diet and keeps you lean, but it will not work for everyone. (when you do take in larger amounts of carbs watch out)
3. What do you think that GNC and Popeye's sell?? GNC is garbage, Popeye's is not much better if at all. Over priced for anything that is half decent, the rest is garbage, always read the label to see what you are putting in your body.

Google DoggCrapp (DC) training, read and learn... or just go here http://www.intensemuscle.com/9478-dc-trainee-gallery.html and see the results of hard work, proper diet and training...then head over to www.trueprotien.com and see what you should be getting.

Until you catch him with a needle, do not accuse people of using illegal drugs, its not cool.
I have friends that use and friends that don't, they make their own educated decisions, but it is certainly not fair to accuse someone if you are not sure.

[teg_boya]

i understand protein to be key, but i was stating carbs are key because it helps give you mass which is turned into muscle for scrawny people. i never said anyone used any type of needle, so reread. AND i personally have never bought from popeyes or GNC but they are local, so i figured i would toss them out. I order all my products online.

[Oz-]

Originally posted by kutt3r
Nice link 5hift, it doesn't get simpler than that...



LOL I can read just fine and it is not impossible (saying that I am sure there was some % of fat as well), but this is coming from the guy that says:


2. Carbs are not key to building muscle... protien is, the amino acids in protien are. A high pro/fat diet is a very good mass building diet and keeps you lean, but it will not work for everyone. (when you do take in larger amounts of carbs watch out)
3. What do you think that GNC and Popeye's sell?? GNC is garbage, Popeye's is not much better if at all. Over priced for anything that is half decent, the rest is garbage, always read the label to see what you are putting in your body.

Google DoggCrapp (DC) training, read and learn... or just go here http://www.intensemuscle.com/9478-dc-trainee-gallery.html and see the results of hard work, proper diet and training...then head over to www.trueprotien.com and see what you should be getting.

Until you catch him with a needle, do not accuse people of using illegal drugs, its not cool.
I have friends that use and friends that don't, they make their own educated decisions, but it is certainly not fair to accuse someone if you are not sure.

Just going to comment on the DC training, I would suspect that for pretty much everyone in this forum (minus a handful of people) DC is far too advanced.

But the one thing people can take from it is periodization of their program.

[kutt3r]

Originally posted by Oz-


Just going to comment on the DC training, I would suspect that for pretty much everyone in this forum (minus a handful of people) DC is far too advanced.

But the one thing people can take from it is periodization of their program.

Agreed...just an example of how it is possible for people to put on great mass if they want to and are dedicated. It is not reccomended for those starting out.

My biggest thing is find what works for you and to keep an open mind... heck I even checked out the P90x craze on this board, some cool stuff there.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by teg_boya


1. your dumb
2. carbs are key to building muscle. whole wheat bread/multi grain rice ftw
3. buying pre mixed protein shakes is stupid because you are spending money on convenience and from my experience most of those shakes are loaded with sugars to make them taste better. you are much better off getting educated and buying a quality weight gainer from popeyes or GNC

1. real mature buddy.
2. Did I say avoid carbs? NO. I said avoid simple carbs not all complex carbs retard.

[shakalaka]

Wow some great information in this thread. Lots of different opinions and views. Its all really appreciated.

Just for a little background, I am not a beginner to weightlifting, I actually have been working out for about 4 years I'd say. When I first started I was just really fat and was just wanting to lose weight, but as I saw that and noticed muscle gains, I got into proper weightlifting which must have been about 3 years ago. I have come a long way from when I first started, but I feel that I am sort of stuck at the same point for a while, which is why I was looking at supplements. Even though I know for sure that if I fix my diet I would definitely see a lot more results.

I was working out every body part twice a week until couple of weeks ago, until someone told me that I might be over training them, so now I just do them once a week.

Monday - Biceps
Tuesday - Triceps
Wednesday - Chest
Thursday - Shoulders
Friday - Back/Legs
Staurday/Sunday - Rest
I do about an hour to hour and half of training with weights and then 10-20 minutes of cardio.

I usually don't do squats/deadlifts and I know I should, so maybe I will start incorporating that in my routine as well.

[sabad66]

If you are looking for straight up muscle growth I wouldn't even do cardio until you are where you want to be muscle-wise and then start a cutting phase. Also I wouldn't have a day solely for biceps and triceps alone since they aren't really primary muscles.

I would do something like a 4 day/week routine of something like:
Day 1: Chest/tris
Day 2: Shoulders/bis
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Legs

That's just me though, any other opinions on that?

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by sabad66
I would do something like a 4 day/week routine of something like:
Day 1: Chest/tris
Day 2: Shoulders/bis
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: Back

That's just me though, any other opinions on that?


^^^ thats exactly how i group my workouts :thumbsup:

EDIT: i also throw core in there with my back workout

[5hift]

One day dedicated to biceps, one to triceps and one to shoulders are IMO a waste of time and effort. Working out your biceps and triceps before your chest doesnt make sense to me either as it effects your ability to lift as heavy for chest. Going heavy as possible for chest is what is going to stimulate most growth and by working your arms back to back days before your chest is hampering your lifting ability.

Having muscle specific days also implies you arent big on compound exercises which where what broke me through my first plateau when I first started lifting, and are commonly known now as the best way to get gains. You should make sure you are doing dips, pullups and chinups as well. Doing pullups regularily will blow up your arms ... will work them much more than any curls, pull downs or anything.

If you actually want better visable results, but want to keep it simple I would move to something like

Mon - Chest, Biceps, Triceps
Tues - Cardio
Weds - Legs (Squat/Deads)
Thurs - Cardio
Fri - Back, Shoulders, Abs
Weekend - rest

Doing Squats and Deads believe it or not will improve your bench and other upper body lifts, I didnt like doing them at first either, until I started seeing the overall results.

Especially since you mentioned trying to cover up fat with muscle, I would mix in some cardio. It sucks and isnt fun usually but its great for your heart, and doing something like HIT twice a week will get you ripped if you do it consistently with a good diet.

Also when lifting, what format do you follow (ie: 3X10, 3X8, 5X5 etc)?

[5hift]

Originally posted by sabad66
If you are looking for straight up muscle growth I wouldn't even do cardio until you are where you want to be muscle-wise and then start a cutting phase. Also I wouldn't have a day solely for biceps and triceps alone since they aren't really primary muscles.

I would do something like a 4 day/week routine of something like:
Day 1: Chest/tris
Day 2: Shoulders/bis
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Legs

That's just me though, any other opinions on that?

I dont see the point for the average person to go through bulking and cutting cycles. It makes it so much more complicated (calorie tracking etc) and cutting (dependant on how committed) can really suck (always hungry, feeling tired etc) which can really suck if your a student or work long hours. If you have a clean diet with a lot of protien everything else will take care of itself if you stick at it, no need to make it more complicated.

Also doing chest/tris, shoulders/bis, and back in 3 consecutive days makes no sense. You use your shoulders in both chest, and back workouts, and then you have a specific day for them in between as well? Also when you hit your back, biceps are used in most exercises, having a specific bicep day right before your back day is only limiting your lifting ability.

You guys are giving too much time and effort to bi's and tri's. They should be worked in as complimentary exercises, not getting nearly as many reps/sets as they get hit with the majority of upper body exercises to begin with.

[teg_boya]

^^ your logic does not make sense to me regarding the loss of chest power. You are saying that by working out your whole arm and your chest on the same day is god? IMO that is way to many major muscles ot be shredding in one day. Tris and chest are supplementary muscles of each other just like back and biceps are, so to me it makes logical sense to work those two pairs out on separate days. You also gave two full days to cardio? That is a SHIT load of cardio... Why not free those days up and instead of devoting two full days just give 20 minutes a workout to cardio. It is easily combined by doing a 10 minute warm up and cool down

[b_t]

Originally posted by teg_boya
^^ your logic does not make sense to me regarding the loss of chest power. You are saying that by working out your whole arm and your chest on the same day is god? IMO that is way to many major muscles ot be shredding in one day. Tris and chest are supplementary muscles of each other just like back and biceps are, so to me it makes logical sense to work those two pairs out on separate days. You also gave two full days to cardio? That is a SHIT load of cardio... Why not free those days up and instead of devoting two full days just give 20 minutes a workout to cardio. It is easily combined by doing a 10 minute warm up and cool down

The problem with what you are doing is one body part a day workouts are fucking pointless unless you are on roids.

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by b_t


The problem with what you are doing is one body part a day workouts are fucking pointless unless you are on roids.

??? no wonder you have a custom user title... :rofl:

legs and back are very key muscles. Legs are good ont here own. Squats or dead lifts, curls, extensions, calf raises, lunges and a 30 minute spin on the bike is good enough for me.

as far as back goes if your read my post at the top of the page, i work back and core in the same day.

So my only day i do one muscle is the day i do legs and legs are your biggest, heaviest most powerful muscles in your body, so i dont see where the problem is giving them there very own day

[5hift]

when you work out your chest, you use both your chest muscles, your shoulders, your biceps and triceps. If you hit your bi's and tris the day before you go do some bench work, obviously your lifting will be hampered.

If you are doing enough chest work, your bi's and tris should be getting hit hard enough. Working in a few exercises after chest should be more than enough (unless you just want a pump so you can look at your arms in the mirror)

Just like when you work out your back, you do a lot of rowing and pulling movements that involve shoulders and biceps. Doing shoulders and bi's the day before only limits how hard you can work your back.

When I say do cardio on day 2 or 4, I dont mean go run on a treadmil for hours. Cardio for me is a light HIT session and then go play some ball. I see so many huge guys that live in the gym, that come to play ball and are tired after running around for 20 minutes. Most people dont do cardio because its not fun, not because they actually think it will hamper muscle gain. You got to have some balance. Plus do HIT for a month or so and see how much more stamina you have in the bedroom. ;) Your girl will definetely notice the difference.

[teg_boya]

haha fair enough. i just didnt mention anywhere that i hit arms before my chest. Sure my bis willget a supplementary workout with my chest, but by no means does it push them so i find for my bodies recovery time that i can get a good bi "pump" in the next day. and yes, mirrors are my friend

[b_t]

Originally posted by teg_boya


??? no wonder you have a custom user title... :rofl:

legs and back are very key muscles. Legs are good ont here own. Squats or dead lifts, curls, extensions, calf raises, lunges and a 30 minute spin on the bike is good enough for me.

as far as back goes if your read my post at the top of the page, i work back and core in the same day.

So my only day i do one muscle is the day i do legs and legs are your biggest, heaviest most powerful muscles in your body, so i dont see where the problem is giving them there very own day

Fuckin '08s

Or you can do it all on the same day, which is how almost every trainer who has ever written anything in a real health mag recommends you do it. Watch how pro athletes work out and see how many of them are doing one body part a day..
One group a day workouts make you feel hardcore. That's it. They are a waste of time.

[5hift]

Originally posted by teg_boya
haha fair enough. i just didnt mention anywhere that i hit arms before my chest. Sure my bis willget a supplementary workout with my chest, but by no means does it push them so i find for my bodies recovery time that i can get a good bi "pump" in the next day. and yes, mirrors are my friend

If you are doing enough pushing exercises on chest day, and mix in some chinups, and then on back day do pullups and other rowing exercises , your biceps will get hit much harder than having one specfic day for being a curl jockey.

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by b_t


Fuckin '08s

Or you can do it all on the same day, which is how almost every trainer who has ever written anything in a real health mag recommends you do it. Watch how pro athletes work out and see how many of them are doing one body part a day..
One group a day workouts make you feel hardcore. That's it. They are a waste of time.

again quoted for stupidity...

find me a day where i only work one muscle other then legs? :poosie:

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by 5hift


If you are doing enough pushing exercises on chest day, and mix in some chinups, and then on back day do pullups and other rowing exercises , your biceps will get hit much harder than having one specfic day for being a curl jockey.

and no, i am not a curl jockey. i obviously hit curls, but i do not stand there and do that for 4 hrs straight. I agree, chinups/pushups/rows are a nice way to work my arms and back. maybe one day we should meet up and see who has better results...

[b_t]

Originally posted by teg_boya


maybe one day we should meet up and see who has better results...

You queer


Originally posted by teg_boya


again quoted for stupidity...

find me a day where i only work one muscle other then legs? :poosie:

quoted for stupidity? Fucking quote yourself next time.
I said "do it all in one day" dipshit. Learn to read.

[5hift]

day two where you have shoulder/bicep day is a waste

shoulder and bicep specific exercises should be mixed in with back and chest days.

I'm also not trying to just be critical of your workouts, I'm trying to help you. I used to think like you until I started doing some research on weightlifting forums and started to see the results from the changes I made. The gains my biceps got from pullups and chinups were huge compared to when I used to be a curl jockey in my earlier years.

There is a reason you always see guys with tiny chests and huge arms, but you'll never see someone with a big chest that doesnt have big arms. There is no way they wont get built up along the way with the chest as they are involved in all the movements. What will stress out a bicep muscle more, doing curls with a 35-40 lb dumbell or trying to support your arm when you bench 2 plates or do pullups with a weighted belt on?

[teg_boya]

Originally posted by b_t
You queer


b_t
b_t is a huge fag

your one to talk? :rofl: :rofl:

[teg_boya]

i agree with what you say, but i myself have researched and tried many different ways of working my body, and the way i do it has proven to work best for my body. That being said, there are different strokes for different folks. I am in no way a bicep curl jockey although i do not mind throwing down a nice set of curls on my bicep days, i still work my arms with other exercises that work other supplementary muscles like my chest.

[b_t]

Originally posted by teg_boya
i agree with what you say, but i myself have researched and tried many different ways of working my body, and the way i do it has proven to work best for my body. That being said, there are different strokes for different folks. I am in no way a bicep curl jockey although i do not mind throwing down a nice set of curls on my bicep days, i still work my arms with other exercises that work other supplementary muscles like my chest.

That's the fundamental problem with this one part a day thing. The chest is NOT a supplementary muscle for your arms... it is the other way around. The best bicep/tricep workouts are rows, chin ups, and narrow grip bench presses. There is a lot of research out there to show that isolation exercises are ineffective at building muscle.

Doing one body part a day is certainly better than doing nothing, but you will hit a dead end before long doing it and the guys doing compound exercises that work a lot of muscle groups in a more natural fashion will be getting better results in less time.

[teg_boya]

for the last FUCKING time i do not work one body part a day!!! so why do you keep bringing that up? DAMNIT

post your routine and let me critique that shit

oh, and i have worked out for 4 years. I hit a plateau after one year because i was using no supps. I got supps then hit another plateau about a year and a half later and then i changed my supps and slightly changed my routine and now i am plateau free for a year and a half. i must be doing something right for my gains...

...oh and when i work my arms with dips and chin ups and push ups, my chest is getting a workout as well. sooooo ya i guess they are supplementing each other

[sadiuaimports]

eat 7 times a day and sleep 10 hrs a day and you might be over traning yourself

[scboss]

i have only been working out eight mnths so far and this is my routine.
mon chest/triceps/abs
tues rest
weds back/bicep/cardio
thurs rest
fri rest
sat legs/shoulders
sun rest

im 6'3 and so far ive gone from 163 to 185. Rest and nutrition is the most important part, i have taken nothing just eat healthy and sleep properly

[Unknown303]

I'm all for Doing a full body every second day.

Thats everything. in a single day. Starting off with going between Chest and Leg workouts to keep the heart working then moving into Biceps/Triceps then shoulders/back finishing up with abs. This is usually all done within an hour or so to keep the heart rate up and I've really enjoyed this type of workout.

From the articles I've read over the years they have generally leaded towards doing everything in a single day as there was no difference in recovery between doing a single group in a day then resting over doing all and resting the following day.

and in my off day I like to get out and run maybe 5-8km's to keep my cardio up.

I'm 6'2 and 200lbs. Don't take my advice as the only way to do it, most people have to discover what works best for them as far as timing goes and general feel of the workouts. I enjoy getting everything done in a day and feeling just beat for the next day but its because i don't like spending a lot of time in the gym.

[scboss]

Originally posted by Unknown303
I'm all for Doing a full body every second day.

Thats everything. in a single day. Starting off with going between Chest and Leg workouts to keep the heart working then moving into Biceps/Triceps then shoulders/back finishing up with abs. This is usually all done within an hour or so to keep the heart rate up and I've really enjoyed this type of workout.



how long do your workouts last? i find doing 4 chest exercises and 3 tricep exercises is already into around a hr.

Btw what do u guys find best for legs right now i do
Squats 3 sets
leg press 3 sets
dead lifts 3 sets
calve machine 4 sets

just looking to switch it up a bit

[Darkane]

LOL at some of you guys.

Shak, dude you have to do Deads and Squats. Simple reason: They will make every muscle grow.

Your Body: Shit we're doing these crazy hard movements, we'd better grow and get stronger so they are easier. As this happens the rest of your body will grow too.

Also to many people don't have intense workouts. Sweating is one thing, but doing 20 rep squat sets and losing your hearing is another! :thumbsup:

Also saturated fats are key for testosterone production. You need bad cholesterol, simple as that. No one said being jacked is healthy right.

Eat lots of Clean foods. Eating out = Bad, Drinking = bad, Staying up late = bad.

:devil:

[Darkane]

Here, everyone should try this with the exception of Oz and I since our trainer has us doing custom shit.

Taken from Ironaddicts.com

Here is a routine a LARGE percentage of the lifters here could make great gains doing.

Monday
Squat or box squat 2 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday

Wednesday
Squat or box squat 2 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Friday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Sets are NOT taken to failure, at least 1 rep short, or to the point RIGHT before form starts to break down. If you do not recover well, reduce 1 set from each of the lifts.

Rotate the lifts to something else every 4-8 weeks or whenever a lift stalls.

[shakalaka]

Wow...so many different opinions and views I think I might be a bit more confused than I was before. lol I think I need to read few good articles from the links provided above and see what kind of routine is best for me.

One thing is clear though I shouldn't do one body part a day. Before switching to that routine about 2 weeks ago, I was doing something like this..

Monday- Biceps/Triceps
Tuesday- Chest/Shoulder
Wednesday- Back/Legs

And then I repeated this again in same order on Thursday, Friday and Saturdays. But I am guessing I was over training then as well.

Also for chest, what do you guys think is better? Just the bench press exercises or with dumbells. Since right now I do one body part a day, I can usually do both bench press and dumbells. I don't how ever do decline bench press or decline dumbell press. Do you guys think that decline is important?

I usually do 3 sets of each exercise with 6-8 reps. Since I always try to lift heavy, it's usually pretty hard for me to do more than 8 reps.

Definitely going to start doing squats/deadlifts/chinups. Do you guys usually fit the deadlifts/squats in your leg day? I think I have hit my plateau with everything but especially with arms I have noticed no gains in so long that it is getting frustrating and not that I don't work out or work out hard enough. Seems like the last bit of extra fat that is left on the stomach/chest region isn't disappearing either no matter what I do.

[shakalaka]

And the biggest dilemma for me and for the longest time has been the problem of me wanting to lose weight (get rid of stomach and chest fat) and gain muscle at the same time.

Obviously one require more eating and one requires less, I think I have just never been able to focus on one goal first. So I was told that if I just concentrate on getting big now and gaining more muscle, my fat would automatically start disappearing or 'covered' so to speak. Is that true?

[SoSlowDx]

It's all different for everyone and working out requires a lot of reading. Thanks to my buddy I don't have to b/c I'm a lazy pos. lol

My buddy and I don't do decline don't think we need it and so far we're fine.

You have to pick one, lose weight or gain can't do both.

But here's what we usually do

Mon: Chest
Tue: Arms, bicep
Wed:back
Thur: Shoulders
Friday:Legs, Triceps

Weekends rest and do some cardio here and there but pretty fucking lazy to :rofl:

Summer is here so got to work extra hard.
:D

I haven't done much cardio since I've worked out. I gained more weight but see less fat.:dunno:

[shakalaka]

I had a read on the WBB forums and was reading through some of their routines. And I was thinking of starting this one
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=314

What do you guys think?

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by warcaster


how long do your workouts last? i find doing 4 chest exercises and 3 tricep exercises is already into around a hr.

Btw what do u guys find best for legs right now i do
Squats 3 sets
leg press 3 sets
dead lifts 3 sets
calve machine 4 sets

just looking to switch it up a bit

I tend to limit the number of exercises that i do per muscle group. Usually only two different types per muscle and I keep my resting time in between fairly short. I don't like spending a lot of my time in the gym to I work pretty hard at getting out quickly.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by shakalaka
I had a read on the WBB forums and was reading through some of their routines. And I was thinking of starting this one
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=314

What do you guys think?

Why not try the Simple power routine? You need a good strength base before any type of good massing can begin.

That other routine seems much to complicated.

In the lifting world your "experience" in the gym is usually calculated by your total tonnage.

I think something like this is the norm:

Completely new - xxx, xxx, xxx
Amateur - 225, 300, 400
Moderate - 315, 400, 500
Advanced - 405, 500, 600

Numbers are just estimates. In order Bench (NO bouncing and must touch chest), Squats (90deg AT LEAST), Deadlifts (right from the floor)

[Darkane]

Originally posted by Darkane


Why not try the Simple power routine? You need a good strength base before any type of good massing can begin.

That other routine seems much to complicated.

In the lifting world your "experience" in the gym is usually calculated by you total tonnage.

I think something like this is the norm:

Completely new - xxx, xxx, xxx
Amateur - 225, 300, 400
Moderate - 315, 400, 500
Advanced - 405, 500, 600

Numbers are just estimates. In order Bench, Squats (90deg AT LEAST), Deadlifts (right from the floor)

Oh and just another thing, a new or normal person can and SHOULD be able to reach Moderate level lifiting in 2-3 years assuming they do everything right.

[KRyn]

Wow there is so much bull shit in this thread it is starting to smell.

Darkane as always is posting lots of good stuff.

[Oz-]

Not sure where to begin, but really everyone should just start with that simple strength based routine that Darkane posted. You don't need complicated routines, just get strong first. I don't know the quote 100%, but essentially it says that if you want to continue lifting girl weights than expect to continue having a girl's physique. If you are just starting out, why bother trying to get big like someone in Flex magazine? Just start at the bottom, work your way up in strength and the rest will take care of itself.

Just some random thoughts of what else has been discussed in this thread.

- Personally I can only train my back on the same day as my legs. Why? Because when I have deadlifts or rack pulls, it takes much too long for me to recover to do back properly and even if I was recovered for a back day. I wouldn't be recovered enough again with my back for deadlifts or rack pulls again. (ie: I train my back on Mon & Fri..with Mon being a Max Effort and Fri being more of a speed day)

- The Smith(Smythe) machine is not the same for squats, you are locked into a single plane of motion. Don't be afraid to use the power racks, they are have more to offer then a place for bicep curls.

- The hammer smith machine that everyone uses for shrugs, is not the same as deadlifting off the floor. Again you are locked into a single plane of motion.

- Form is far more important than adding weight to the bar.

- Talking about bad form, when people talk about minimum squat depth they mean what you see in the picture. Knee crease to hip crease should be parallel.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/wanderito/misc/MINIMUMsquatdepth.jpg

Easiest way to gauge if you are getting good depth, is use a box for squats. Get one that takes you to parallel or under and its a very simple touch. If you don't touch then you never hit depth on the squat.

If you say your knees hurt, then play with your stance. Go wider to take some stress off your knees and put them on your hips. Not everyone has the same build, so do what is most comfortable for you. Also try and squat barefoot or get a pair of Chuck Taylor canvas shoes. Once I took off my running shoes, the weight no longer had a tendency to push me forward coming out of the hole.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by Oz-
Once I took off my running shoes, the weight no longer had a tendency to push me forward coming out of the hole.

Hmm I might have to try that. I got a big natural arch and I need supportive shoes. I got some Nikes with stiff sides that work well.

Hey Oz, try looking strait up out of the hole. It would also help your forward problem.

[Oz-]

Originally posted by Darkane


Hmm I might have to try that. I got a big natural arch and I need supportive shoes. I got some Nikes with stiff sides that work well.

Hey Oz, try looking strait up out of the hole. It would also help your forward problem.

I have a spot up on the wall that I look at when I squat..it is about 10 feet up. Otherwise, I would just admire my huge traps and never bother coming out of the hole.

It is hard to explain the different between running shoes to barefoot to chuck taylors. During the squat even when looking up coming up out of the hole, I would end up doing more of a good morning squat. I guess that inch or two in the heel make a difference.

Barefoot/chuck taylors is difficult to explain, but definitely I found for myself there was much better leverage. This was especially apparent when doing any deadlifts off the floor.

Darkane - if you have a speed day, that is probably the best time to give squatting barefoot a try. Just warmup like normal and attempt a few worksets like that.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by 1-Bar


not true, he will be expending calories (most) from stored fat sources post workout/cardio session. The mass gaining the OP wants is LBM, which is usually done at night during muscle growth/repair.

The key is to find that fine line where you are burning fat stores and not muscle mass.....



Or natural :devil: dun dun dun.....:drama:

hahaha... feel free to come to the gym with me anytime... I am no monster, but I don't feel lanky or skinny anymore. When I was around 170lbs I was eating once a day, horrible diet, no excersize, and was basically wasting away. I got sick of being called tall and skinny and started up a serious commitment to gain weight. I would definately consider myself a Mesomorph, as well my brother, who is 6'11 and 270lbs. As for taking roids, that is technically a grey area. My body produces absolutely ZERO natural testosterone, so my doctor perscribed a specific dose of delatestryl to be taken weekly. So yes, you could say I take steroids, but only because without them, I would still be a BABY!


EDIT:

Also, I take a Brady Quinn mentality to every workout. Every muscle I work is worked perfectly, perfect form, timing, posture, breathing, everything. This might sound obnoxious or excessive, but when I see guys at the gym who say they squat properly but only hit 45', I can't help but laugh.

[GQBalla]

doctors presribe steroids???

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by GQBalla
doctors presribe steroids???

Technically they would call it a supplementation for a testosterone deficiency. So yes, they do.

[b_t]

Originally posted by zipdoa


Technically they would call it a supplementation for a testosterone deficiency. So yes, they do.

how tall are you? 170 isn't a bad weight. But if you are 6'11" like your bro... then yeah, 170 is not near enough ahaha
Men's Health cover guys are usually around 175-185


Originally posted by warcaster


how long do your workouts last? i find doing 4 chest exercises and 3 tricep exercises is already into around a hr.

Btw what do u guys find best for legs right now i do
Squats 3 sets
leg press 3 sets
dead lifts 3 sets
calve machine 4 sets

just looking to switch it up a bit

Ideally you should be able to do everything in around 45-50 minutes. After that, your energy reserves get low and unless you eat or drink a shake while you are at the gym, you won't be able to push yourself hard enough to get any benefit.

My workout plan for those curious
Deadlifts
Bench Press
Incline Dumbell Flies & Delt Side Raises & Seated Row triset
Chinup & Cable Woodchopper superset
Abs bridges if I have time
in and out in 45 minutes plus warmup sets

and form is key... especially for big compound exercises. For deadlifts, you should do a maximum of 5 reps because your legs can generally do a lot more than your back can handle and you don't want to be doing any reps after your form starts to suffer.

My deadlifts are also more of a total body exercise.. instead of just standing up, I explode up onto the balls of my feet and shrug my shoulders up all at the same time. Has done wonders for my calves and traps. It was recommended in a Men's Health article awhile back, an athletic trainer's philosophy or something, I've been trying to find it to scan it in and post it here but no luck yet.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by b_t


how tall are you? 170 isn't a bad weight. But if you are 6'11" like your bro... then yeah, 170 is not near enough ahaha
Men's Health cover guys are usually around 175-185




6'7... still growing a little bit. When I was 170lbs I was probably 6'3-4. I would like to be 250lbs... I can hit 240lbs wet, but I feel a dry scale reading is more honest.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by GQBalla
doctors presribe steroids???

Yes. Crazy huh?

Prolonged cutting can CRASH testosterone something fierce. Stress, poor diet, BEER and a whole slew of other things can crash test too.

Not sleeping good? Goodbye Testosterone.

Things that WILL increase testosterone production:

Deadlifts
Squats
Bad cholesterol
Sex
Porn
Red Wine (1-2cups a day)

Foods:

Red Meat
Eggs
Brocolli (to lower the aromatase which converts androgens to estrogens)
fish oil
Berries, Just eat clean.

Fried food, sugars, garbage in general will kill Test.

Also check this out, the lower the testosterone is, the HIGHER the estrogen will be! It's a vicious cycle. Men in there 40's-50's all of a sudden get Moobs. That's why.

[Darkane]

Oh yeah forgot, Magnesium and Zinc. Extremely important for testosterone production. If you test for these in a regular active male you will find they are <almost> always depleted.

[silviafreek89]

Originally posted by Darkane
Oh yeah forgot, Magnesium and Zinc. Extremely important for testosterone production. If you test for these in a regular active male you will find they are &lt;almost&gt; always depleted.


Would taking a good multi-vitamin daily help out???
Slowly trying to change my eating habits (DIFFICULT)...

[Darkane]

Originally posted by silviafreek89



Would taking a good multi-vitamin daily help out???
Slowly trying to change my eating habits (DIFFICULT)...

Abso-fucking-lutely!

The super pack I take has 100% of each I believe (I'd have to re-check)

Although it is 100%, that's based on a normal sized male, 2000cals/day and little to no activity, let alone 3150 cals/day, and intense dead lifting, squat sets every 5-7 days like myself.

Charles Poliquin has a Zinc/Mag supp which has something like 500% Zinc. He is on the leading edge of sports science and philosophy so I'd bet that's what a high caliber athlete would require.

I don't know, I'm still playing around with certain things :D

[shakalaka]

Maybe I should look into taking some multi-vitamins, seeing that my diet isn't what it should be either! Like I have no problems avoiding junk food, I don't crave burgers, pizzas etc. I used not anymore, my problem is I am just too freaking lazy to do anything. If I am hungry I will just stay hungry for hours before I finally have to get up and get something to eat.

[silviafreek89]

Interesting info....I have a thing of Centrum complete or wtv it's called. I'm no high-calibre athlete but I would like to get into playing rugby again...

Problem is I like mary-jane as a daily relaxant, I drink 2 Coke's a day and don't do enough exercise (just moved, no weights). Is there a gym around the ne or d/t that have cheap member fees or a one month free sort of deal???

However, I do core-exercises as much as possible and walk 2000+ steps a day!!!

Dammit, I wish I was more health-conscious back in my teen years filled with pizza and chips lol...

[Darkane]

Originally posted by silviafreek89


However, I do core-exercises as much as possible and walk 2000+ steps a day!!!



Sorry man,

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080111231316.htm

[dimi]

Am I supposed to get sore after every workout? Buddies keep trying to tell me that I don't workout enough if I'm getting sore. I feel that if I don't get sore the day after, I haven't done much at the gym.

I do:
CHEST/TRI
BACK/BIC
SHOULDERS/ABS
LEGS
CARDIO

[silviafreek89]

Originally posted by Darkane


Sorry man,

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080111231316.htm


DAMMMMM, i gotta get my step up!!!!!
Mind you lot's of it up and down stairs...that helps right lol

[Mibz]

Sex
PornMasturbation gets me ripped? Fuck yeah!

[Oz-]

Taken from another forum, but thought it might help out in this thread.

Expectations

Almost everywhere people are looking for the secret to overnight body transformation...looking for that next training program or the next drug or whatever.

Most of them want to "gain 20lbs of pure muscle in just 6 weeks!" or lose their beer gut overnight... you know, the gut that took them over 4 years to put on.

Don't hold your breath.....

Check out this LINK (http://www.thebiguniverse.com/coleman/transform.html)

That is Ronnie Coleman and it took him 12 years (1992-2004) to gain 76LBS of muscle (in contest shape). That is 6.3lbs of muscle per year or ~ 1/2 pound of muscle per month. Which is NOT overnight progress

Some other things to consider are:

Ronnie Colman has better genetics than you

This is his JOB, this is your hobby

He does MASSIVE AMOUNTS of DRUGS

He does insulin

He does GH

He takes drugs that you don't even have access to and couldn't afford if you did

He trains harder than you.

At one time he was the best in the WORLD

Its just good to keep this in mind to maintain a healthy and realistic expectation on the sport

[b_t]

honestly though, who the fuck wants to look like Ronnie Coleman? the guy is a freak.
The last Mr Olympia I have any interest in looking like Larry Scott http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Scott

[Oz-]

Originally posted by b_t
honestly though, who the fuck wants to look like Ronnie Coleman? the guy is a freak.
The last Mr Olympia I have any interest in looking like Larry Scott http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Scott

I guess the point of that post went right over your head. But go ahead and continue to argue with which era and bodybuilder had the best physique.

For the rest of you, muscle grows like grass...very long and slow process.

[b_t]

Originally posted by Oz-


I guess the point of that post went right over your head. But go ahead and continue to argue with which era and bodybuilder had the best physique.

For the rest of you, muscle grows like grass...very long and slow process.

I understood it perfectly well, slow gains, so on so forth... just decided to talk about Coleman instead. And I'm not about to argue about bodybuilding, because I have no interest in it all. So long as I look better than I did the month before, I'm fine.

[Darkane]

Frank Zane Winner.

5'9" Contest weight 185-190ish
ARMS = 16" yes only 16" Symmetry played a big role back then.

http://www.frankzane.com/images/77frontrelaxed.jpg

This man Had brilliant genetics. Still does check out pics of him at 65 years old.

[b_t]

Holy shit.. now that is impressive

[shakalaka]

Originally posted by Darkane
Frank Zane Winner.

5'9&quot; Contest weight 185-190ish
ARMS = 16&quot; yes only 16&quot; Symmetry played a big role back then.

http://www.frankzane.com/images/77frontrelaxed.jpg

This man Had brilliant genetics. Still does check out pics of him at 65 years old.

Shit! That's awesome, my arms are like 16, wish looked like that though.

[98type_r]

is it just me, or does anybody see a hint of steve carrell in that picture.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by 98type_r
is it just me, or does anybody see a hint of steve carrell in that picture.
if I were control you would already be dead.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by 98type_r
is it just me, or does anybody see a hint of steve carrell in that picture.

LOL, yes.