M3 more efficient than a Prius?

[Kloubek]

I would be surprised if this was never posted before. But I could not pull up anything with a search.

Top Gear (which is hardly a scientific show), did a test that pitted the M3 against the Prius on the track. Obviously in a race, the M3 would prevail. But in this case, they simply had the M3 follow the Prius, while the Prius was being driven with spirit. (As much spirit as one could possibly drive a Prius anyway.)

Fuel economy results? Well, watch the video.

Link to video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PP6fe6i1vaY)

I will say that it is likely the BMW enjoyed some reduced drag with the Prius in front. However, it would not be nearly at the same level that was done during the Mythbuster tests of hypermiling, where they were as close as two feet away from a tractor trailer.

Of course, those people who have a Prius are not likely to drive it with any spirit. It is most likely to be subjected to stop and go traffic, where it would most definately beat the BMW in economy. However, for those such as you and I who tout ourselves as "car enthusiasts", it's an interesting watch.

I am also interest to know if the claim that during the manufacturing process for the battery, that it does more environmental harm than a Land Rover. I sure hope that's not true.

[Toms-SC]

Here we go

[The Cosworth]

it is not that the M3 is particularly good, the prius are a bunch of crap

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by The Cosworth
it is not that the M3 is particularly good

You sir are incorrect

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by The Cosworth
it is not that the M3 is particularly good, the prius are a bunch of crap

No, the prius just isn't meant to be run flat out. Of course it's going to get shit mileage when driving at maximum MPH. They were designed for city commuting.

[Destinova403]

theres an article that was posted on a university website a while back... im at work so i dont have the URL here but it compairs the total environmental damage that the prius does to the Hummer H1... and the prius does more dmg over 100,000 kms than the hummer does in 300,000 kms

ill post it up when i get home...

i hate the prius... the nickle mines for it has turned a nice swath of ontario into an ecological dead-zone. NASA uses it to test moon rovers :( and all so some hippy ass holes can feel better about themselves for "not polluting" as much

as i said... ill post the article when i get home from work.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Destinova403
theres an article that was posted on a university website a while back...

i hate the prius... the nickle mines for it has turned a nice swath of ontario into an ecological dead-zone. NASA uses it to test moon rovers :)



I read that, and it was pure propaganda. The way they "calculated" the environmental damage, was using mining techniques that haven't been used in decades (the same techniques that also moon-scaped Sudbury).

[Tik-Tok]

My link isn't working anymore, but here's the article.


he Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

[Eleanor]

Of course the M3 is going to be more efficient around a track, the Prius get its economy from having the engine shut off half the damn time.

[heavyD]

Sounds like the whole electric car thing. Hey! An electric car is more environmentally friendly. Sure the car itself is but you have to charge those cars and electricity is created via massive steam turbines that are run by coal fired boilers at power plants. More electricity used = more coal used at power plants.

[benyl]

Originally posted by heavyD
Sounds like the whole electric car thing. Hey! An electric car is more environmentally friendly. Sure the car itself is but you have to charge those cars and electricity is created via massive steam turbines that are run by coal fired boilers at power plants. More electricity used = more coal used at power plants.

Especially in China AND Alberta.

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by Destinova403
theres an article that was posted on a university website a while back... im at work so i dont have the URL here but it compairs the total environmental damage that the prius does to the Hummer H1... and the prius does more dmg over 100,000 kms than the hummer does in 300,000 kms


Re-read that part about damage per km. For the Prius they took the environmental cost and divided it by 100,000 miles. For the H1 they took the environmental cost and divided it by 300,000 miles. Doesn't make for much of a comparison

[heavyD]

Originally posted by benyl


Especially in China AND Alberta.

There's caveats to all the so called alternative fuels or methods. E85 sounds great until you realize that it's lower BTU therefore leads to poorer gas mileage and higher corn prices.

[Kloubek]

It does actually. The reason is that the batteries in the Prius are only expected to run 100,000 miles before they need to be replaced. At that time the Prius will not be worth replacing the battery at current battery costs. (Although I expect reduced prices in the future.) Whereas the distance an H1 can travel prior to the junkyard is really only limited by the owner's interest in upkeep. Saying that a Hummer would be around for 300,000 miles seems fairly realistic - although I personally would estimate maybe 250,000 miles seems more in-line with future actuality. That works out to about 400,000kms.


Originally posted by Euro_Trash


Re-read that part about damage per km. For the Prius they took the environmental cost and divided it by 100,000 miles. For the H1 they took the environmental cost and divided it by 300,000 miles. Doesn't make for much of a comparison

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Euro_Trash


Re-read that part about damage per km. For the Prius they took the environmental cost and divided it by 100,000 miles. For the H1 they took the environmental cost and divided it by 300,000 miles. Doesn't make for much of a comparison

yes... BUT if you look at what they state... they calculated the total amount of energy used to produce and run the car over its lifetime and then put a dollar value on it and divided it by the life of the car... so theoretically if they reduced the life of the hummer to say 100000 miles then itll still be lower than the prius because the total amount of energy used would be a third (not including manufacturing energy)


Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

so basically... the hummer uses $585000 of energy over 300000 miles and the Prius uses $325000 over 100000 miles.

so lets assume (WILD guess based on the cost of the hummer at around 80k with labour+parts+etc) that the hummer costs $20000 in energy to produce meaning that the remaining $565000 would be energy used to run it during the 300k... divide by 3 meaning its $188333 to run for 100000 miles... add the 20000 back on and the energy the hummer would use for 100000 miles would be $208333 which is over $100000 less than the prius

so basically... even if you assume that the ENTIRE retail value of the hummer goes into energy (whats being calculated with) the hummer STILL comes out lower than the Prius over 100000 miles.

theres also the factor that after 100000 miles the prius is useless because of the battery whereas the hummer is still going to be able to run for a while with proper maintainence.

EDIT: i think they used a dollar value so it demonstrates to idiot americans the point... i dont know if they would understand the term kilowatt-hours/joules (thanks to super_geo for the correction)

[Euro_Trash]

Alright, but there are a lot of Prius's out there with over 130,000 miles on the original battery, so the 100,000 miles estimate is obviously a poor one. From what I have read, in the states you can get a 150,000 mile powertrain warranty for the Prius.


And they are attributing all of this nickel use by the batteries; I can pretty much guarantee that the Hummer contains more nickel in it's steel than in the Prius' batteries.

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Euro_Trash
Alright, but there are a lot of Prius's out there with over 130,000 miles on the original battery, so the 100,000 miles estimate is obviously a poor one. From what I have read, in the states you can get a 150,000 mile powertrain warranty for the Prius.


And they are attributing all of this nickel use by the batteries; I can pretty much guarantee that the Hummer contains more nickel in it's steel than in the Prius' batteries.

did you completely miss what i said...? even at 150000 miles the prius comes out behind... and are the batteries covered in the warranty? in which case im sure they are getting replaced at the 100000 miles. do you have a service schedule for the prius? or are you basing all of this on nothing but blind hippy devotion?

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by Destinova403


did you completely miss what i said...? even at 150000 miles the prius comes out behind... and are the batteries covered in the warranty? in which case im sure they are getting replaced at the 100000 miles. do you have a service schedule for the prius? or are you basing all of this on nothing but blind hippy devotion?

Yes batteries are covered in the warranty (double checked, a thread on vortex said 150,000 miles but on the website the hybrid parts are covered by 100)

I am not defending this argument at all (I highly doubt a Jeep Cherokee shows my hippy devotion :rolleyes: ) but this article has been floating around for a looong time now, and has been debunked every time. All of the arguments are based on estimates and mining facts from the 80's.

Even your argument is based on this magical 100,000 miles mark which changes the entire case.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by Destinova403
EDIT: i think they used a dollar value so it demonstrates to idiot americans the point... i dont know if they would understand the term kilowatts.

Why would they use kW?

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


Why would they use kW?

sorry... kilowatt-hours or joules depending on what you look at... physics is my WORST subject.


The energy unit used for everyday electricity, particularly for utility bills, is the kilowatt-hour (kWh), and one kWh is equivalent to 3.6×106 J (3600 kJ or 3.6 MJ). Electricity usage is often given in units of kilowatt-hours per year (kWh/yr). This is actually a measurement of power consumption, i.e., the rate at which energy is transferred

[bashir26]

How fast where they going? I'm assuming they were going about 120KM/H maybe. At that speed the M3 in lets say a higher gear would be using lower RPMs. Who knows how many RPMs the Prius was running at. Higher rpm=more gas usage.

[Kloubek]

Not too sure how fast they were going exactly, but like I said - it was rather "spirited" driving around a track, so I presume that it was in upwards of 120k for sure.

You'd think then that based on this "experiment", under normal highway use, the BMW would be more fuel efficient than the Prius. That still seems ludicris to me - even though the Prius will inevitably be run at higher RPMS.

I believe the EPA fuel efficiency standards are/have been changed this year to better reflect "real" driving. I think I read the new tests drop the Prius from 60something mpg to 45mpg. I wonder if they will also then increase the M3 to a better rating as well.

I did think about all this at one point when driving my Audi 4.2. It seemed to move through traffic with very little pressing on the gas, and at low rpm. Whereas my roommate who has a civic revs the hell out of his engine to get any power. Still, I figured that because the engine was less than half the size of mine that it would still be getting much better economy. Perhaps not?

[autosm]

Originally posted by Euro_Trash
Alright, but there are a lot of Prius's out there with over 130,000 miles on the original battery, so the 100,000 miles estimate is obviously a poor one. From what I have read, in the states you can get a 150,000 mile powertrain warranty for the Prius.


And they are attributing all of this nickel use by the batteries; I can pretty much guarantee that the Hummer contains more nickel in it's steel than in the Prius' batteries.

A real world test would include idling in the Tim Hortens drive through for 20 min waiting for a double double.


And those Nickle mines were not opened to only supply material for the Prius batteries.

Is the raw materials in the batteries not recyclable/reuasble?

I am sure in the future Part Source will have reconditioned batteries in stock if there is enough of a demand.

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by autosm


A real world test would include idling in the Tim Hortens drive through for 20 min waiting for a double double.


And those Nickle mines were not opened to only supply material for the Prius batteries.

Is the raw materials in the batteries not recyclable/reuasble?

I am sure in the future Part Source will have reconditioned batteries in stock if there is enough of a demand.

im sure that the batteries can be recycled... but IMHO hybrids are just an inherently bad design, because of the current capabilities of battery technology. not to mention that with average driving it takes 6 years for the car to pay off its initial investment... and at the end/in those 6 years will you need to replace the battery ANYWAY? which will put you almost another 6 years behind a normal small car.

by re-conditioning the batteries will quality suffer? will it be any cheaper? what is the cost of a battery change outside of warranty? is it going to be 10 grand ill need to spend every 100000 miles? how about buying a used Prius? will this effect re-sale? why would i want a car that needs a 10 grand investment every 100k and for that reason gets very little resale?

sorry... i just REALLY hate the prius... it isnt green... it isnt much more fuel efficient than most small cars... and it isnt economical... yet EVERYONE loves it.... :banghead:

it would probably be more fun to base my entire argument on the South Park "Smug" episode

[alloroc]

Hybrid Taxi cab savings ...

http://autos.canada.com/green/story.html?id=7385385b-732d-4ac6-8513-8289842450df


In addition, he said the vehicle costs only one-third the usual expenses on maintenance over a 24-month period because it has fewer wear-and-tear components. His current Prius recently surpassed 400,000 kilometres with no hybrid component failures.

[badatusrnames]

Too lazy to read the entire thread, but a hybrid is only efficient because it recaptures energy when the vehicle is stopped (regenerative braking) and then utilizes it again to drive the electric motor to assist acceleration later on.

You only see advantages when they are driven in stop and go city driving. When they were speaking about converting our cab fleet to hybrids like Vancouver - apparently in a city like Calgary where the roads are fairly wide open (not in rush hour) hybrids are no longer offer benefits over standard vehicles.

[Chandler_Racing]

The test was hardly scientific.

Regardless, the point that they were trying to make is not that the M3 is "more efficient" or what have you. Rather, they simply pointed out that fuel efficiency is strongly influenced by driving habits. Always bagging on the car will provide poor fuel economy, but being smooth with your inputs keeping the revs down and such will noticably improve fuel mileage.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by alloroc
Hybrid Taxi cab savings ...

http://autos.canada.com/green/story.html?id=7385385b-732d-4ac6-8513-8289842450df



The whole point of this quote is that batteries last a hell of a lot longer than 100k.

If you want to talk about green manufacturing, check out what Subaru is doing in Indiana with a '0%' landfil status and PZEV vehicles.
http://subarupzev.ca/english.html

[treg50]

Wow pretty cool, a Prius cab... the perfect long term test i think. I hope they keep track of that cab and see how far is keeps going... and see how well the battery continues to do.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by treg50
Wow pretty cool, a Prius cab... the perfect long term test i think. I hope they keep track of that cab and see how far is keeps going... and see how well the battery continues to do.

Winnipeg has Prius cabs everywhere, they seem to be holding up alright. Constant maintenance does wonders.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Eleanor


Winnipeg has Prius cabs everywhere, they seem to be holding up alright. Constant maintenance does wonders.

Way! less mainenence also. I read somewhere that companies that have test fleets of hybrids are saving thousands on brakes alone as hybrids use the brake pads only on hard stops and regenerative braking otherwise.

[autosm]

Originally posted by Destinova403


im sure that the batteries can be recycled... but IMHO hybrids are just an inherently bad design, because of the current capabilities of battery technology. not to mention that with average driving it takes 6 years for the car to pay off its initial investment... and at the end/in those 6 years will you need to replace the battery ANYWAY? which will put you almost another 6 years behind a normal small car.

by re-conditioning the batteries will quality suffer? will it be any cheaper? what is the cost of a battery change outside of warranty? is it going to be 10 grand ill need to spend every 100000 miles? how about buying a used Prius? will this effect re-sale? why would i want a car that needs a 10 grand investment every 100k and for that reason gets very little resale?

sorry... i just REALLY hate the prius... it isnt green... it isnt much more fuel efficient than most small cars... and it isnt economical... yet EVERYONE loves it.... :banghead:

it would probably be more fun to base my entire argument on the South Park "Smug" episode


Have you driven in one? You might change your mind if you have not been in one. It is very economical sitting in a drive through waiting your turn but not so much on a trip to Banff.

I had a first gen Prius for a weekend when they were first sold in Canada. I spent 3 days driving around Arizona with a realestate agent in the latest model. A friend of mine has a Hybrid Camry. I would buy one in a second for my next CITY car. The Camry was 36k hardly a lot more than a base model 4 cyl. Stop and go city traffic are what they best at. The Air conditioning is electric so the engine does not have to be running. Not for every one but a step in the right direction.

Every time you coast/brake the battery is being recharged. The actual operation of the car is very slick.

Remember these cars have been in operation for 10 years. Unlike the others that are just concepts

To me they are worth the extra $ but a hyundai Accent at 1/3 the price is also a very good choice.

Rent the movie "who killed the electric car" it gives a interesting point of view. Acording to The movie GM was 2 years a head of Toyota with electric cars and they did everything they could to erase them from history.

[Destinova403]

your still missing my point... if i want to save gas ill buy a little yaris or fit or even an accent for much cheaper and get a better car.

i dont care where GM was... electric cars (atleast at this point) are not feasible... including hybrids. i havent been in a prius but i have been in an insight... and a civic hybrid... (my dad almost bought one as a commuter car) and im well aware of how they work... you could probably tell from my posts in the news section i try to keep fairly on-top of things and learn from lots of different sources.

the issues im raising are valid and everyone is avoiding answering my questions. when we went into calgary honda to look at them... the sales guy skirted around all of our questions and the math showed that the car wouldnt save us any money.

once again i reiterate

When does the battery need to be replaced? by re-conditioning the batteries will quality suffer? will it be any cheaper? what is the cost of a battery change outside of warranty? is it going to be 10 grand ill need to spend every 100000 miles? how about buying a used Prius? will this effect re-sale? why would i want a car that needs a 10 grand investment every 100k and for that reason gets very little resale? what will happen when new technology like the Volt comes out? or new batteries become available? how long will it take for the gas prices to offset the price of the hybrid system?

in terms of taxis... yes... they are very good for them as long as the batteries are holding up... because they drive a lot of miles in a year so the car will pay itself back very quickly. but for the average consumer it takes years to see ANY benefit from driving the prius at all... and in that time a majority of people upgrade cars... wouldnt you have been better to buy a much cheaper small economy car?

the technology will grow... but for now... it just isnt there...

the car is a feel-good fashion accessory and nothing more. it isnt economical, the efficiency gains are not very good, and it isnt ecological as demonstrated by the CNW report.

WHY WOULD I WANT ONE?

[autosm]

I really do not know how the batteries will hold up but I have seen no information that shows them to be a problem.

Do they really cost 10k? The more they sell the cheaper/better they will get??

For a realestate agent a hybred would be a good choice.

Resale, I was looking for a used 07 Highlander hybrid and used with 30k miles they were more than a new 08 regular model.

To call them more harmfull to the enviroment than a Hummer is incorrect????? Like some one above said there is more nickel in the hummers steel then a Prius? If these claims were true I would not buy a Hybrid.

My friends Camry gets 300km more to a tank of fuel than I do. Thats $35.00 per week about 1800$ per year based on my driving. He drives a lot more than I do. The Camry hybrid is a nice car much nicer to be in than a yaris, fit or accent.

I understand they don't make sense for every one but I think the driving experience/mechanical operation is worth the extra money for me.



Some people will pay more for somthing that makes them feel better about driving.


I have driven a rented Yaris and its a great car .Same with the hyundai so I do agree with you one those points.

For me its the economy and the "mechanics" that attracts me to a Hybrid Toyota.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by Destinova403
your still missing my point... if i want to save gas ill buy a little yaris or fit or even an accent for much cheaper and get a better car.

the car is a feel-good fashion accessory and nothing more. it isnt economical, the efficiency gains are not very good, and it isnt ecological as demonstrated by the CNW report.

WHY WOULD I WANT ONE?

Ok by your argument you support that the Prius is a poor choice for you, and that you would rather buy a fit or Yaris instead of the Prius or M3.

I get it.

[semograd]

I know its late to be posting this but:

My father owns a prius. He didnt do it because he was an eco freak or because he likes how the car handles, he did it for the fuel economy.

My dad makes deliveries across around Calgary multiple times a week and he used to use his 4runner. he would get around 450-500 km on a 65-70 dollar fill up.

Long story short my dad bought a prius, was able to fit 3/4 to 4/5 of his deliveries that he would normally put into the 4runner into the prius and he gets roughly 900-1000km on a 40-45 dollar fill up.

the math speaks for its self.

[jtsimaras]

What a waste of time and gas!

[quik96]

Originally posted by Destinova403


once again i reiterate

When does the battery need to be replaced? by re-conditioning the batteries will quality suffer? will it be any cheaper? what is the cost of a battery change outside of warranty? is it going to be 10 grand ill need to spend every 100000 miles? how about buying a used Prius? will this effect re-sale? why would i want a car that needs a 10 grand investment every 100k and for that reason gets very little resale? what will happen when new technology like the Volt comes out? or new batteries become available? how long will it take for the gas prices to offset the price of the hybrid system?

in terms of taxis... yes... they are very good for them as long as the batteries are holding up... because they drive a lot of miles in a year so the car will pay itself back very quickly. but for the average consumer it takes years to see ANY benefit from driving the prius at all... and in that time a majority of people upgrade cars... wouldnt you have been better to buy a much cheaper small economy car?

the technology will grow... but for now... it just isnt there...

the car is a feel-good fashion accessory and nothing more. it isnt economical, the efficiency gains are not very good, and it isnt ecological as demonstrated by the CNW report.

WHY WOULD I WANT ONE?

First off the article comparing a prius and a hummer has been proven to be inaccurate several times. As someone else stated, there's probably a lot more Ni in the body of the Hummer than the batteries of a Hybrid. Next generation Hybrid batteries will most likely be lithiom-ion eliminating the Ni all together. A quick google brought up one article, but there are many out there.

http://www.myninjaplease.com/green/?p=354 (http://)


As for your questions regarding battery costs and life expectancy, the batteries last much longer and are much cheaper to replace than people expected. Just because the warranty covers 160 000km doesn't mean the batteries are going to be dead at that point, much like a regular car isn't junk after the warranty expires. People have already posted links to the articles about the taxi hybrids, so here are some other articles dealing with the life and cost of the batteries

http://www.ecomodder.com/blog/2008/06/07/replacement-hybrid-battery-costs-plummet/ (http://)

http://www.hybridcars.com/decision/top-10-hybrid-myths.html (http://)

As far as I remember from previous research on the subject, the current batteries are 100% recycleable and Toyota and Honda even pay you to recycle them once they are dead.

Finally, it is true that some Hybrid models cost more than their none Hybrid counter-parts, but if you look at the price of a Hybrid Camry vs. a V6 Camry the the Hybrid version costs around the same as the entry level V6 model, but has standard features closer to that of the fully loaded V6 model.

I hope I don't come off as a dick in my post, but I hate the unjust hate most people seem to have for Hybrids when they are infact a good (not perfect) thing. And as you said, the technology is growing, which means they will get even better. For example the 2010 (or 09) Prius will be a plug in hybrid, further increasing it's efficiency.