Police vandalism?

[Ihatetowait]

Now, I'm not here to bitch about getting pulled over. I made an illegal left, I accept that.

The cop was a prick, he gave me 400 dollars in tickets for making a left turn, window tint, and exhaust. All tickets I accept.

In the past I've read threads about RCMP making people remove their tint (themselves), or else their car will be impounded/tickets.

He makes me roll my window 1/2 way up, pulls out a pocket knife, and cuts a slice of my tint right off my window for "evidence", scratching my window in the process.

What is my next step? I don't think this is right.

[bashir26]

The next step would be getting the rest of the illegal tint removed.

[Ihatetowait]

Obviously I don't mean that. I mean, does an officer have a right to pull out a knife and start cutting at my window?

I would have been more then happy to remove it for him, instead, he decided to mark up my window in the process.

I'm asking for legitimate answers - not witty responses.

[4lti7ude]

Take it to court?
Maybe you can lower the price of your ticket if you fight it with that..

[Freeskier]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait
I mean, does an officer have a right to pull out a knife and start cutting at my window?

Yes

[seer_claw]

Good luck scratching a window with a knife. Glass is harder than steel so if there is a visible mark then it is likely just in the glue from the tint.

[khtm]

Holy shit just suck it up, be a man, pay the tickets, and accept the fact that you fucked up.

[tabouli]

Originally posted by seer_claw
Glass is harder than steel ....

http://shoutpix.com/graphics/funny-sayings/bowl-of-stupid.gif

[DayGlow]

best evidence rule. A physical seizure is the best way to prove what was on the window. If you think he damaged your property in the process you could start a complaint.

[Ihatetowait]

Originally posted by seer_claw
Good luck scratching a window with a knife. Glass is harder than steel so if there is a visible mark then it is likely just in the glue from the tint.

Thanks for all the honest answers, I'm taking these to court anyways to try and reduce them.

Density of stainless steel - 8000kg/m^3
Density of glass - 400-2800km/m^3

And on Mohs hardness scale

6 to 7 Glass, Vitreous pure silica
7 Quartz
7 to 7.5 Garnet
7 to 8 Hardened steel

Sorry seer-claw, way off.

[seer_claw]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait


Thanks for all the honest answers, I'm taking these to court anyways to try and reduce them.

Density of stainless steel - 8000kg/m^3
Density of glass - 400-2800km/m^3

And on Mohs hardness scale

6 to 7 Glass, Vitreous pure silica
7 Quartz
7 to 7.5 Garnet
7 to 8 Hardened steel

Sorry seer-claw, way off.

Typically a knife comes in at about 5-5.5 on the scale, some of the hardened steels that have other additives in them come out harder. Not really way off, to get a knife up to 7-8 it costs a lot, but meh what are 3 years in geology good for anyways. :dunno:

[sugoi240]

get a lawyer
pay the $$

last time a cop pulled me over and claimed
I was stunting, racing , too loud an exhaust, tail gating,
and a whole bunch of stupid shit, speeding
a total of 7 tickets

Cops do shit like that so they can make one charge stick.

Thing was, how could I speed if I was tailgating?

All the charges was dropped except for tail gating
since it was the only think that was somewhat provable since
I didn't leave more than a car length when I waited behind
a car at a red light.

He didn't even give me a ticket for tinted windows
And no, I don't use limo tint.

Get a lawyer

[Ihatetowait]

Exactly. I have 35 percent front.

It's almost clear.

[alloroc]

I don't think cutting someone's window tint is right.

It is kind of like getting some tin snips and asking the cop to cut out his badge number for you so you can have his identification.

[Ihatetowait]

My thoughts exactly.

[misterrick]

everyone seems to be acting like tint just started being illegal.

if you take the risk of having tint on your front windows, then your dumb for complaining about it. thats like getting mad for being busted smoking weed. you know its illegal so suck it up


and the general rule is, cops are either assholes that will ticket you for anything, or they are out to actually uphold the law. which one do you think is gonna pull you over for tint?

[5hift]

Originally posted by DayGlow
best evidence rule. A physical seizure is the best way to prove what was on the window. If you think he damaged your property in the process you could start a complaint.

I like how you say start a complaint and not actually file one/go through with one as we both know cps isnt held to the same standards as the citizens who pay their salaries.


I dont see how if both your windows are down, you've done nothing wrong and you still get pulled over by a cop asking you to roll up your windows on a hunch they have that you may have tint ... how isnt that police harasment?

I have a hard time beliving crime in Calgary is that slow that they need to pull people over on hunches that they may have tint now.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by 5hift




I dont see how if both your windows are down, you've done nothing wrong and you still get pulled over by a cop asking you to roll up your windows on a hunch they have that you may have tint ... how isnt that police harasment?



Correct me if I'm wrong DayGlow... They (CPS) are allow to "ask" you voluntarily to perform certain requests. However, without a warrant (from what I understand), you're not obiligated to comply to roll up your windows if they're already down when they pulled you over. Now of course if you're cocky to them like "I don't have to roll them up" they'll probably give you a hard time.

But if you're smart about window tinting then they're just get tired and give up... back in high school "I've heard of a buddy of mine" drove a 92 GTI, he had limo tint, he took out the retainer clip/pin that secured the window crank handle... Whenever anyone spots a cop, they're like: "Windows windows" and then remove the window crank put it under the seat... His theory is that if CPS ask him to roll up the windows, he'll say they're busted, if the cop looks at the door panel himself/herself, there aren't any window crank handles... if they ask why you driving it like that, then he'll say it's a work in progress vehicle and we're just test driving it for fun, etc...

Edit: So with power windows, just rig up a hidden on/off switch under the seat... After rolling your windows down, hit that switch, so even if the cops wanna try your factory buttons it won't work. (i.e. my windows are busted, sorry dude)

Edit Edit: And to Law Enforcement, I'm just saying THAT ^^^ is what I overheard sitting at a local Tim Hortons minding my own business from 2 strangers' conversation about dealing with front window tint and cops.

[DayGlow]

Under the TSA police are allowed to stop a vehicle without warrant either for:

1) an observed infraction
2) to check the sobriety of the driver
3) to check documentation
4) to inspect the road-worthiness of the car

To inspect the tint would fall under #4. If you don't like how laws are written you have to take it up with your MLA, or fight it to the Supreme Court of Canada to get it overturned if it's unconstitutional. That's the way our system works.

As for focusing on minor car infractions, it falls back on the broken window theory. The public have identified to the police that they are concerned about a certain area, ie racing, etc. It is a proven tactic that really focusing on every minor infraction does decrease the larger ones. You may not feel it's a big deal, but the people that own property and business in the SE do make a lot of noise about the racing going on. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that other people in the city don't either.

Yes the complaint process is involved, but it has to be as to make sure that they are legit. If you really think a cop has overstepped his authority the process is there. If it is legit you can have go the the Law Enforcement Review Board where civilian oversight is used to make sure that everything is within the law if you feel you complaint isn't being taken seriously.

Finally the last time I checked I have taxes deducted from my paycheck as well, so please do not use that tired statement of how people pay my salary because I pay my own share into it.

[BlueGoblin]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR


Correct me if I'm wrong DayGlow... They (CPS) are allow to "ask" you voluntarily to perform certain requests. However, without a warrant (from what I understand), you're not obiligated to comply to roll up your windows if they're already down when they pulled you over. Now of course if you're cocky to them like "I don't have to roll them up" they'll probably give you a hard time.

Actually,


Inspection of vehicles

66(1) A peace officer may, for the purposes of

(a) ensuring that a vehicle or its equipment, or both,

(i) are safe to operate, and

(ii) meet the vehicle and equipment standards and requirements provided for under this Act,

or

(b) determining whether the condition of a vehicle or its equipment contributed in any manner to an accident,

do one or more of the following:

(c) direct that the vehicle or its equipment, or both, be subjected to an inspection, examination or test by the peace officer;

(d) direct that the vehicle or its equipment, or both, be subjected to an inspection, examination or test at a place and by a person specified by the peace officer;

(e) direct that the vehicle or its equipment, or both, or any specific part of the vehicle or equipment be repaired;

(f) direct that the vehicle or its equipment, or both, be removed from the highway or from operation and that it not be returned to a highway or operation until the vehicle or its equipment, or both, have been, as the case may be,

(i) rendered safe to operate,

(ii) repaired, serviced, altered or otherwise dealt with so that they meet the requirements of this Act, or

(iii) repaired in accordance with the directions of the peace officer;

(g) direct that the directions given under this section be complied with within a time period specified by the peace officer;

(h) direct that, after the directions given under this section have been complied with, the vehicle or its equipment, or both, be reinspected by a peace officer at a time and place specified by the peace officer.

(2) A direction given under this section must

(a) be in writing, and

(b) be served on the person to whom the direction is made.

(3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a direction given under subsection (1)(c) may be given orally if a peace officer inspects, examines or tests the vehicle and its equipment forthwith after the direction is given.

(4) If a driver or an owner of a vehicle is given a direction under subsection (1)(f), a peace officer may seize the licence plate and certificate of registration issued in respect of that vehicle and hold the licence plate and certificate of registration until the vehicle or its equipment, or both, have been, in accordance with the direction,

(a) rendered safe to operate;

(b) repaired, serviced, altered or otherwise dealt with so that they meet the requirements of this Act;

(c) repaired in accordance with the directions of the peace officer.

(5) A person shall not do any of the following:

(a) fail to comply with the directions given by a peace officer under this section;

(b) operate a vehicle on a highway in contravention of a direction given under subsection (1)(f);

(c) put a vehicle into operation in contravention of a direction given under subsection (1)(f).

[phil98z24]

Tomco, you can be compelled to roll up your windows on demand via vehicle inspection - as per section 66 of the TSA, I can demand a vehicle inspection and perform it myself. That being said, if there is something wrong with the windows and therefore not complying with vehicle standards, I can then compel said vehicle to be removed from the roadway until it meets equipment standards.

Sooooooo... this could turn into potentially more money/time lost than a window tint ticket, along with the hassle of having the vehicle towed, etc. I am not one of those asshole police officers that does that on a regular basis or anything, but I just wanted to answer your question. I haven't had anyone tell me yet that they don't have to roll up their windows so I can confirm they were tinted. :)

[euro_racer]

illegal left turn and all the bs tickets...im guessing you were exiting the tim hortons by the races?

[finboy]

tint is ghetto looking, he did you a favor. if he damaged your window, take pics and file a complaint.

as per the tickets, driving isn't a right, you break the rules, you pay the price

[kwjent]

I got a window tint ticket a couple of weeks ago. My windows were rolled down and the cop was wanting to get me for anything possible. They have the full right to ask you to roll up your windows, if you do not comply and say they are broken chances are if your car looks somewhat newer they can get you to step out of your vehicle and they will unlock the windows, turn on the car and roll them up. Rolling them up is probably the smartest thing to do and take the 115 ticket and pay it. The police officer that took a chunk out of my window scratched it to, there is nothing to bitch about and someone had previsouly mentioned to file a harassment complaint, good luck with that they all stand behind one another. If you got a bunch of other tickets hire a lawyer, the tint one is almost impossible to fight because they got that little piece of evidence.

[Ihatetowait]

Originally posted by euro_racer
illegal left turn and all the bs tickets...im guessing you were exiting the tim hortons by the races?

Yeah, I was supposed to meet up with a buddy.

Back in the day when I actually went to those events, they were held further south, hence why we chose the one by staples.

He did it to make an example in front of everyone. Had he asked me to remove my tint myself, I would have gladly done it. However, he ordered me to roll up my window 1/2 way, and didn't even ask before cutting it off with his knife.

I've filed a complaint with the number the lady on the non-emergency line gave me. If it doesn't get attention, I plan to take it to the next level up.

I accept the tickets. If everyone on this thread would PLEASE stop going "WELL YOU SHOULDNT TINT YOUR WINDOWS DURRR". I know it's illegal, I'm 100 percent cool with the tickets (despite the fact the officer was a dickbag). It's the violation of my rights that he basically vandalized my vehicle right in front of me, under order, that really pisses me off.

I plan to see this through as far as I can take it.


finboy - it's not so much the little scratches that bother me, rather the complete lack of respect to my personal property by an officer who's job is uphold such things.

[DayGlow]

fyi seizing evidence in itself isn't a violation of your rights, it's a basic tenant of our legal system. Now if he maliciously with the intent of damaging the rest of you car then you have a case.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Under the TSA police are allowed to stop a vehicle without warrant either for:

1) an observed infraction
2) to check the sobriety of the driver
3) to check documentation
4) to inspect the road-worthiness of the car

To inspect the tint would fall under #4. If you don't like how laws are written you have to take it up with your MLA, or fight it to the Supreme Court of Canada to get it overturned if it's unconstitutional. That's the way our system works.


I am glad the police have these allowances.
but
I dont' see where it says "Take a knife and start hacking away"

Personally I don't have tint, but this troubles me. What is stopping the cop from doing further damage? I don't see any checks here.

Like I said above it is akin to me having the right to take some tinsnips to the officers ID and chop out his number and picture.


Edit:
Dont get me wrong two of my best friends are 'or have been' cops and they are as trustoworthy as anyone, but there are assholes in every job, or jobsite.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by phil98z24
Tomco, you can be compelled to roll up your windows on demand via vehicle inspection - as per section 66 of the TSA, I can demand a vehicle inspection and perform it myself. That being said, if there is something wrong with the windows and therefore not complying with vehicle standards, I can then compel said vehicle to be removed from the roadway until it meets equipment standards.




Originally posted by DayGlow

To inspect the tint would fall under #4. If you don't like how laws are written you have to take it up with your MLA, or fight it to the Supreme Court of Canada to get it overturned if it's unconstitutional. That's the way our system works.



Haha alright thanks, I guess that was just high school talk then, but we're talking about yearssssss ago.

[Ihatetowait]

Still, I havent found a clear answer on whether or not the officer can legally pull out a knife, and cut my window.

How would this differ from if I had illegal headlights and he tore them out? It's someone else damaging my personal property, either way.

[Canmorite]

Cutting off a piece of your tint was a total dick move, and he probably knows that. A ticket is one thing, but putting a slice in your window? Come on :rolleyes:

[colinxx235]

yes I totally agree.. if they want evidence why can they not just suffice by taking a picture... :dunno:

[kaput]

.

[ricosuave]

Any pics of this so-called slice, or they guy with the 'chunk' out of his window! :rolleyes:

[revelations]

What type of tint did you have on your windows?
If it was the limo tint, youre asking for more problems down the road. Go with a 35% tint and you should be fine - as long as you dont give the popo any reasons to be dicks.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait
Still, I havent found a clear answer on whether or not the officer can legally pull out a knife, and cut my window.

How would this differ from if I had illegal headlights and he tore them out? It's someone else damaging my personal property, either way.


If this isnt obvious enough, then you need to back to school again. By using his knife, he was performing the below-mentioned test.




Inspection of vehicles

66(1) A peace officer may, for the purposes of

(a) ensuring that a vehicle or its equipment, or both,

(i) are safe to operate, and

(ii) meet the vehicle and equipment standards and requirements provided for under this Act,

or

(b) determining whether the condition of a vehicle or its equipment contributed in any manner to an accident,

do one or more of the following:

(c) direct that the vehicle or its equipment, or both, be subjected to an inspection, examination or test by the peace officer

[benyl]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait
Still, I havent found a clear answer on whether or not the officer can legally pull out a knife, and cut my window.

How would this differ from if I had illegal headlights and he tore them out? It's someone else damaging my personal property, either way.

You don't get it do you?

There are two police officers who have replied to your thread. Both have said that it is their legal right to slice your window. I don't see how you think your complaint will go anywhere.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait
Still, I havent found a clear answer on whether or not the officer can legally pull out a knife, and cut my window.

How would this differ from if I had illegal headlights and he tore them out? It's someone else damaging my personal property, either way.

It is highly ill-eagle yo! Next time the popo wants to mess with you, grab his cuffs and citizen's arrest his ass! Srsly!




(Don't actually do that...


...who knows how many germs are on those cuffs. Bring your own.:thumbsup: )

[88CRX]

On a different note, from what I've heard in the past very few people actually got window tint tickets that weren't driving like complete tools or hanging out at Tims on Saturday nights.

Lately it seems window tint is actually the one and only reason people are getting pulled over for and ticketed. Just wondering what the reasoning is behind this is?

In the past its always just sorta been 'acceptable' by most CPS to have tinted windows :dunno: what gives now?

[benyl]

End of the month quotas? I keed, I keed.

[sr20s14zenki]

Couldnt you just say your window switch is broken? :devil:

[alloroc]

Originally posted by revelations



If this isnt obvious enough, then you need to back to school again. By using his knife, he was performing the below-mentioned test.
(c) direct that the vehicle or its equipment, or both, be subjected to an inspection, examination or test by the peace officer

08 :rolleyes:

First you can test tint without pulling out a knife.What is stopping them from testing to see if you have removed the spark arrestor from your bike by drilling a hole in the side of your muffler with a hole saw. To me, cutting tint is just as stupid.

Use the right tool for the right job.


Second: According to the OP's post the piece was not removed for testing, but for "evidence"


Originally posted by Ihatetowait
[B]Now, He makes me roll my window 1/2 way up, pulls out a pocket knife, and cuts a slice of my tint right off my window for "evidence", scratching my window in the process.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
Couldnt you just say your window switch is broken? :devil:

no

[alloroc]

What is interesting about the act is that the window installers are also breaking the law.

If tinted windows are such a safety concern why aren't the police targeting the people who are installing it instead of just the people operating the vehicle.


52(1) Subject to this section, no person shall place or install in a
motor vehicle a transparent, translucent or opaque material on or in
place of the
(a) windshield glazing, or
(b) side window glazing that is beside or forward of the driver
on the right and left hand side of the motor vehicle.
(2) No person shall place or install in a motor vehicle a
transparent, translucent or opaque material on or in place of the rear
window glazing unless the motor vehicle is equipped with outside
rear view mirrors on the left and right of the motor vehicle that
comply with the requirements of section 53(2).
(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not
(a) apply to the equivalent replacement of the glazing
installed by the manufacturer of the motor vehicle,
(b) prohibit the use of clear untinted frost shields, or
(c) prohibit the use of window stickers as long as they do not
impair the operator's field of vision or otherwise impair
the safe operation of the motor vehicle.
(4) The owner of a motor vehicle shall ensure that the view
through all frost shields on the motor vehicle is not impaired by
discoloration, scratches or other damage.
(5) No person shall place or install any material on or in place of
any window glazing that, by reason of sunlight or the headlights of
other vehicles, casts a glare at other vehicles on the highway.
(6) No person shall, after January 1, 1981 operate on a highway a
motor vehicle that contains material that is prohibited by this
section.

[eb0i]

Originally posted by 88CRX
On a different note, from what I've heard in the past very few people actually got window tint tickets that weren't driving like complete tools or hanging out at Tims on Saturday nights.

Lately it seems window tint is actually the one and only reason people are getting pulled over for and ticketed. Just wondering what the reasoning is behind this is?

In the past its always just sorta been 'acceptable' by most CPS to have tinted windows :dunno: what gives now?

I'm pretty sure there is a front window tint crackdown going on here. It happened last summer and this is probably another one that is going down.

:thumbsdow

[revelations]

Originally posted by alloroc


08 :rolleyes:

First you can test tint without pulling out a knife.What is stopping them from testing to see if you have removed the spark arrestor from your bike by drilling a hole in the side of your muffler with a hole saw. To me, cutting tint is just as stupid.

Use the right tool for the right job.


Second: According to the OP's post the piece was not removed for testing, but for "evidence"



So 03 are assholes then?

You wont see officers pulling out cordless drills as the next step is to have your vehicle hooked and towed to an inspection facility.

You pay for all the charges including the time the vehicle sits around WAITING to be inspected.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by eb0i


I'm pretty sure there is a front window tint crackdown going on here. It happened last summer and this is probably another one that is going down.

:thumbsdow

Meanwhile ....

Number of Offences
Year-to-Date
2008

HOMICIDE 9
ASSAULT 1809
STREET ROBBERY 237
COMMERCIAL ROBBERY 95
BREAK AND ENTER - HOUSE 698
BREAK AND ENTER - SHOP 880
THEFT OF VEHICLE 2018
THEFT FROM VEHICLE 2654 + 3*
MISCHIEF OFFENCES 2742


Updated: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 15:4

*You can add three more car prowlings to that, as my car has been broken into three times this year. I don't even bother reporting it anymore because nothing ever comes of it and I don't have the extra 3 or 4 or 5 hours to sit around and wait for the police to come to my house to file a report.

[Ihatetowait]

Originally posted by alloroc


08 :rolleyes:

First you can test tint without pulling out a knife.What is stopping them from testing to see if you have removed the spark arrestor from your bike by drilling a hole in the side of your muffler with a hole saw. To me, cutting tint is just as stupid.

Use the right tool for the right job.


Second: According to the OP's post the piece was not removed for testing, but for "evidence"



Exactly. Maybe he was just an asshole, especially after I told him they were tinted it wasn't a test.

Why didn't he just get under the car and remove my muffler for "evidence".

Even if it's not against the law, I think it was still highly unnecessary.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by eb0i


I'm pretty sure there is a front window tint crackdown going on here. It happened last summer and this is probably another one that is going down.

:thumbsdow

Yea, could be.




Originally posted by alloroc


Meanwhile ....

Number of Offences
Year-to-Date
2008

HOMICIDE 9
ASSAULT 1809
STREET ROBBERY 237
COMMERCIAL ROBBERY 95
BREAK AND ENTER - HOUSE 698
BREAK AND ENTER - SHOP 880
THEFT OF VEHICLE 2018
THEFT FROM VEHICLE 2654 + 3*
MISCHIEF OFFENCES 2742


Updated: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 15:4

*You can add three more car prowlings to that, as my car has been broken into three times this year. I don't even bother reporting it anymore because nothing ever comes of it and I don't have the extra 3 or 4 or 5 hours to sit around and wait for the police to come to my house to file a report.

That arguement is old and tired :rolleyes: different CPS divisions.



However, you'd think (just stating my opinion) that the CPS's time could be better spent setting up shop in a playground or school zone catching the punks ripping through there at double the posted speed.

Or the people doing 150+ and tailgating people on deerfoot.... there seems to be bigger fish to fry then trying to nab some kids with window tint.

Maybe the safety concerns over window tint heavily outways the safety of kids at school :dunno: I dunno. Just seems that the priorities are a little messed up, maybe some of the CPS that are on here can provide a comment?

[alloroc]

Originally posted by revelations


So 03 are assholes then?

You wont see officers pulling out cordless drills as the next step is to have your vehicle hooked and towed to an inspection facility.

You pay for all the charges including the time the vehicle sits around WAITING to be inspected.

03's are intelligent, BMW owners are douchebags, and vandals are assholes, but I digress.

Then what is stopping a cop form towing a car that has nothing wrong with it to a facility or taking a knife to someone else's property?

What is the check?

[RATM]

WTF
the exact same thing happened to me two weeks ago, my window was scratched and a piece of my window tint was taken as "evidence"
i've filed a complaint and i'm fighting it in court.

[revelations]

Originally posted by alloroc


03's are intelligent, BMW owners are douchebags, and vandals are assholes, but I digress.

Then what is stopping a cop form towing a car that has nothing wrong with it to a facility or taking a knife to someone else's property?

What is the check?

A vehicle can be sent to an inspection facility at the sole discretion of a constable during the course of a traffic stop.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by 88CRX


That arguement is old and tired :rolleyes: different CPS divisions.


The different CPS divisions excuse is old and tired.

Think about it.
Ok so a car is reported stolen within the last 10 minutes.

What should the escallation procedure be.

Wait till the RCMP find it on an indian reserve or someone reports an abondoned car in thier back alley?

Report it only to the the x number of officers working in that department?

Pull some people off window tint detail to go look for the thing.

My Niece's van was stolen two weeks ago. It was hours before the police came to fill in the report. What was she told hours later? " umm ya by this time we probably won't be able to find it until it is abandoned" ... by this time? What the hell were the police doing the previous 5 hours. The location description and licence were reported right away by phone.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by revelations


A vehicle can be sent to an inspection facility at the sole discretion of a constable during the course of a traffic stop.

That is not comforting you didn't provide any provisions.

First Provided the police officer has reasonable and probable grounds right?

What happens if the officers evaluation is unreasonable and incorrect?

Where are the checks?

[Tomaz]

As far as I know (talking to some of our fine officers at Tim Hortons), there are reasons for police to be doing these "crack-downs".

It seems to be that a lot of people that come down there are making the races different from what they used to be.
Such as:

Drug deals
Alcoholism
Vandalism
Drunk Driving
Break-ins
Robbery
Stunting
and just plain mischief.

If anyone has been down there as long as I have, you can see the changes in both the car enthusist scene and how the police deal with the problem.

As far as i have been told, 6 years ago, people were not casueing much of an issue (minus the actual street racing). Everyone drove respect and responsibility to, and from the given racing spots, and outside of the metting places.

When cops came down to "bust us up", they actually did. They came specificaly for that reason. They were busting racers for racing.




Times have changed and now police have been forward thier efforts to cut back on the above-stated reasons for they have been directly linked to a good portion of the crowd that sit in that parking lot.

Personally, i welcome the police down at tims. My cars are 100% legal, properly registered, and insured. Plus roadworthy, and i don't drive like a douche, deal with anything illegal, so i am safe. Maybe if people took the hint that they are not welcome there, they should go home and re-think thier choices. the more the police "crack-down", the less bullshit i have to witness in that parking lot when i plan to spend my satersday night with a lot of good friends.

[RATM]

Originally posted by Tomaz
As far as I know (talking to some of our fine officers at Tim Hortons), there are reasons for police to be doing these "crack-downs".

It seems to be that a lot of people that come down there are making the races different from what they used to be.
Such as:

Drug deals
Alcoholism
Vandalism
Drunk Driving
Break-ins
Robbery
Stunting
and just plain mischief.

If anyone has been down there as long as I have, you can see the changes in both the car enthusist scene and how the police deal with the problem.

As far as i have been told, 6 years ago, people were not casueing much of an issue (minus the actual street racing). Everyone drove respect and responsibility to, and from the given racing spots, and outside of the metting places.

When cops came down to "bust us up", they actually did. They came specificaly for that reason. They were busting racers for racing.




Times have changed and now police have been forward thier efforts to cut back on the above-stated reasons for they have been directly linked to a good portion of the crowd that sit in that parking lot.

Personally, i welcome the police down at tims. My cars are 100% legal, properly registered, and insured. Plus roadworthy, and i don't drive like a douche, deal with anything illegal, so i am safe. Maybe if people took the hint that they are not welcome there, they should go home and re-think thier choices. the more the police "crack-down", the less bullshit i have to witness in that parking lot when i plan to spend my satersday night with a lot of good friends.

i was the same way buddy until i got a couple bogus tickets including one for a failed headlight that I was replacing at the same time i got the ticket.. i can't wait until you get a few tickets and your whole attitude changes.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by RATM


i was the same way buddy until i got a couple bogus tickets including one for a failed headlight that I was replacing at the same time i got the ticket.. i can't wait until you get a few tickets and your whole attitude changes.

:thumbsup: police do thier job champ, if it's any consilation, being escorted out of the city every weekend by the police, then being accused for being one of the "Leaders of the underground racing syndicate", and my attutude still hasnt changed.

You would be talking to the same man who had 15 charges put up against him for a non-injurty accident and had to leave the province becasue i couldn't handle the speculation anymore.

You can blame to police for whatever you wish, when it comes down to it, shit happens and usually you can get out of a lot of things as long as you are respectful and couteous.

One thing i ask you to do is not judge my attitude, i put in an opinion that was from personal experiance and answered a lot of questions in theis thread. So now that it would explain a lot of what the hell goes on down there, you might appreciate what they are trying to do. I certainly do, and i wouldn't trash-talk how they conduct thier buisness down thier for the simple fact that there is a lot of stupid shit that goes on down there that needs to be dealt with. If you don't want to deal with the consiquences, then i don't know what to tell you.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by alloroc


Meanwhile ....

Number of Offences
Year-to-Date
2008

HOMICIDE 9
ASSAULT 1809
STREET ROBBERY 237
COMMERCIAL ROBBERY 95
BREAK AND ENTER - HOUSE 698
BREAK AND ENTER - SHOP 880
THEFT OF VEHICLE 2018
THEFT FROM VEHICLE 2654 + 3*
MISCHIEF OFFENCES 2742


Updated: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 15:4

*You can add three more car prowlings to that, as my car has been broken into three times this year. I don't even bother reporting it anymore because nothing ever comes of it and I don't have the extra 3 or 4 or 5 hours to sit around and wait for the police to come to my house to file a report.

I don't know of a single officer that wouldn't drop a t-stop like a hot potato when a real call comes in. If you could help by helping us predict where the next big offense will happen, much obliged. Until then traffic enforcement will likely makeup the filler time between coffee and donuts.

As for comparing taking some tint as evidence vs drilling and damaging a car is very different. As I told the OP if by seizing the evidence the officer caused damage to his vehicle he has something to complain about. Damage to the illegal tint which has to be removed doesn't really count. Much different from causing damage by drilling/prying as people use as analogies.

[rage2]

Originally posted by DayGlow
I don't know of a single officer that wouldn't drop a t-stop like a hot potato when a real call comes in.
This is true. Back when I was a FnF punk on the roads of Calgary, I've had a cop tell me twice that I'm lucky, they just got a call, and let me off for going 70 over lol.

[RATM]

Originally posted by rage2

This is true. Back when I was a FnF punk on the roads of Calgary, I've had a cop tell me twice that I'm lucky, they just got a call, and let me off for going 70 over lol.

hasn't been let off for a real "call" happened to everyone? haha

[phrozen]

Originally posted by seer_claw
Good luck scratching a window with a knife. Glass is harder than steel .

Originally posted by tabouli


http://shoutpix.com/graphics/funny-sayings/bowl-of-stupid.gif

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

so this thread has become a glass is harder than steel thread. haha

[DayGlow]

fire doesn't melt steel.

[b.rad240]

NO! he can not do that. The reason being is its private property!!!! unless he has a court order or warrant from a magistrait ( judge) to do as such to a specified piece of property.. Thats it , or you see him in court for damage to private property. He may issue fines, warnings, and specify the vehicle to be produced at a designated RCMP office to see that tint, exhaust, or any other infringments.

[BlueGoblin]

Originally posted by b.rad240
NO! he can not do that. The reason being is its private property!!!! unless he has a court order or warrant from a magistrait ( judge) to do as such to a specified piece of property.. Thats it , or you see him in court for damage to private property. He may issue fines, warnings, and specify the vehicle to be produced at a designated RCMP office to see that tint, exhaust, or any other infringments.

Private property!!!! Wow! I guess that could be an excuse for cocaine or firearms as well that police might want to seize!!!!

Did you get a C- in Law 10 or something to offer up this nugget of wisdom?

Snide remarks aside, you want to educate yourself about the law a bit more. Read the Canada Evidence Act for starters. its all available on Canlii.org.

Plain view evidence can be seized by the police in respect of an offence under the Criminal Code or any other act.

When I was in traffic court years ago and under the HTA rather than the TSA, Tint prosecutions would normally be dealt with by oral evidence or sometimes photos.

I suspect that what happened here is that someone may have successfully used the defence that it was not put before the court definitive evidence that there was a tinted film on the window as opposed to an actual coloured glass. If word got around that an acquittal stemmed from that, they might start seizing a sample of the film from the window as happened here. This is pure speculation though.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by rage2

This is true. Back when I was a FnF punk on the roads of Calgary, I've had a cop tell me twice that I'm lucky, they just got a call, and let me off for going 70 over lol.

Your license photo had nothing to do with anything?

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by b.rad240
NO! he can not do that. The reason being is its private property!!!! unless he has a court order or warrant from a magistrait ( judge) to do as such to a specified piece of property.. Thats it , or you see him in court for damage to private property. He may issue fines, warnings, and specify the vehicle to be produced at a designated RCMP office to see that tint, exhaust, or any other infringments.

Sure we can - and guess what else we can do in addition to that or towing the car? If it really calls for it, we can arrest people for having tinted windows in order to prevent continuation of the offense, ie; driving with said tinted windows. That likely has never happened, but it can be done. So as Bluegoblin already said, go take a look at Canlii.org, and look up Provincial Offences Procedures Act while you are at it.

I'm sure we know full well what we can and can't do, sorry to burst your bubble. ;)

[civicman]

Originally posted by seer_claw
Good luck scratching a window with a knife. Glass is harder than steel so if there is a visible mark then it is likely just in the glue from the tint.


So when you have a window wiper fall off....and your wiper blades are goin...the blade arm which is made out of metal DOES scratch the window!!!LOL

[mugen6]

Originally posted by phil98z24


Sure we can - and guess what else we can do in addition to that or towing the car? If it really calls for it, we can arrest people for having tinted windows in order to prevent continuation of the offense, ie; driving with said tinted windows. That likely has never happened, but it can be done. So as Bluegoblin already said, go take a look at Canlii.org, and look up Provincial Offences Procedures Act while you are at it.

I'm sure we know full well what we can and can't do, sorry to burst your bubble. ;)



man i was planning to become a cop too cause a buddy of mine has finished, but since you put it this way of what you can or cannot do. makes me wonder about calgary cops

[Ihatetowait]

Originally posted by phil98z24


Sure we can - and guess what else we can do in addition to that or towing the car? If it really calls for it, we can arrest people for having tinted windows in order to prevent continuation of the offense, ie; driving with said tinted windows. That likely has never happened, but it can be done. So as Bluegoblin already said, go take a look at Canlii.org, and look up Provincial Offences Procedures Act while you are at it.

I'm sure we know full well what we can and can't do, sorry to burst your bubble. ;)

Not to be rude, and of course not blaming you because you've been helpful, however... With me being cooperative, polite, and honest (even told him where I got the tint installed when he asked), would it not be more suitable to allow me to remove it myself? Or even to remove the entire strip. I would much rather do it myself then have an officer with a pocket knife do it to my vehicle.

It's a respect thing, IMO. I treated him with respect and he "was kind to let me off" on a broken tail light, when I had the replacement for the wrong side in the back seat. Company in the USA messed up the order.

He definitely didn't show me, or my property the same respect I showed him. It's a shame, really, makes everyone respect some aspects of the CPS duty a little less.

[88jbody]

shitty it scratched your window...but not much you can do. too bad he wasn't more careful removing it.

but looks like it was well withing his rights to do that.

oh and everyone knows you don't turn left out of that parking lot onto 61st...that is just begging for a ticket on weekends

[The Cosworth]

Sounds to me there is a lot of banter that isn't needed.

Not sure if your all too young but I remember around 2001 or so the cops would cut an x into your front tint. That was to make sure you actually had to remove it instead of just paying the fine and going on your way.



edit: IMO too bad soo sad. I have tint on my front windows. I have never been looked at (that i know of) let alone actually pulled over. Yes i speed but only when it is safe (usually highway), yes I have not stopped properly at stop signs, etc. However I am always aware of my surroundings and never do it when it is unsafe.

drive like a tool, have the book thrown at you. We push the law everyday. this is LAW really no one should have any right to have tint on the front. Most police agencies are happy to give some leeway however assuming they dont feel anyone can be harmed by it. It would be like getting a 1 over ticket. Yes it sucks but you are still going 1km over the speed LIMIT. THE LEGAL LIMIT that your vehicle is allowed to travel. We push it by usually going 10% over because:

a.) Cops dont have time to pull EVERYONE who goes 1 or 2 km/h over and deal with it

b.) They understand we are human and can let that right foot creep.


HOWEVER if you got a 1 over ticket, the argument could be made by the police that if you were unsure you could keep it at the limit you should have been going 5 km/h under. It isnt like these laws were passed when you were sleeping. These were passed by the people you elected when you SHOULD have been paying attention. It is also not like they dont post the laws, they are posted every where. (i.e. signs)

That being said, they have no obligation to allow ANY of us to have window tint. Keep this up and that might be the way things go.

Be careful what you wish for

[Toma]

I hate retard cops.

I can't believe the effort put into useless 'tickets'.

Fawking tint. They cant solve a single real crime, but they waste time on this crap.

My car gets broken into... nothin!. My car gets stolen.... you think they are smart enough or fast enough to catch the guy after I phone it in as I am running after the car down the street???... yet the guy makes it all the way to edmonton.

My moms wallet gets stolen, cops zero.... my mom tracks the people down....

Useless tits. I honestly cannot say a cop has ever done any good when I needed one.

Just cruising around Friday night, I get pulled over not once, not twice, but three times!!

First idiot says "you did nothing wrong, but being that this is a vehicle, I have a right to make sure your documents are in order".

Second moron was at a arbitrary "police state" check stop. Third guy claimed a similar car had been stolen.

Idiots. Funded by even dumber tax payers (voluntary, and involuntary).

The joke is on uss

[Toma]

Originally posted by BlueGoblin


Private property!!!! Wow! I guess that could be an excuse for cocaine or firearms as well that police might want to seize!!!!

You fucking imbecile. Did you just compare window tint to crack and guns? :nut:

[msommers]

Originally posted by b.rad240
NO! he can not do that. The reason being is its private property!!!! unless he has a court order or warrant from a magistrait ( judge) to do as such to a specified piece of property.. Thats it , or you see him in court for damage to private property. He may issue fines, warnings, and specify the vehicle to be produced at a designated RCMP office to see that tint, exhaust, or any other infringments.

Stop listening to Jay-z

[BlueGoblin]

Originally posted by Toma


You fucking imbecile. Did you just compare window tint to crack and guns? :nut:

Firstly, there is no reason to resort to name calling over this. You demean yourself when you do so over a point you didn't grasp.

Secondly, the reason that I made the comparison is this - the seizure of evidence, whether it be for a regulatory offence, for a Criminal Code offence or a CDSA offence, are all covered by the same legislation, caselaw and commonlaw.

[DayGlow]

far easier to ignore Toma and his crotchety old man rants. Nothing will ever be good enough for him. Just too bad he never went through with his application to CPS because by now he would have been chief and created an utopia.

[BlueGoblin]

Originally posted by DayGlow
far easier to ignore Toma and his crotchety old man rants. Nothing will ever be good enough for him. Just too bad he never went through with his application to CPS because by now he would have been chief and created an utopia.

I know its far easier. Its just there was a time when Toma was a useful contrarian. I didn't agree with much of what he said, but he at least had arguments that sounded like they came from a person with a full high school education or better. For the last year or so though, Toma has become a mumbling ranter on all of two topics:

- 9/11 was an inside job, Bush & Co are evil, and anyone who opposes them cannot be evil.

- Cops are stupid and evil.

Believe it or not, I kind of miss the old Toma that was worth listening to even when he took difficult to defend points of view. I fear that ship may have sailed though.

[dragonone]

how come so many ppl expect to be treated nicely when they try extra hard to be polite/honest with cops? from my own experience and reading thru all these threads, it is hardly ever the case. being all that might prevent you from getting another ticket at most lol

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Ihatetowait


Not to be rude, and of course not blaming you because you've been helpful, however... With me being cooperative, polite, and honest (even told him where I got the tint installed when he asked), would it not be more suitable to allow me to remove it myself? Or even to remove the entire strip. I would much rather do it myself then have an officer with a pocket knife do it to my vehicle.

It's a respect thing, IMO. I treated him with respect and he "was kind to let me off" on a broken tail light, when I had the replacement for the wrong side in the back seat. Company in the USA messed up the order.

He definitely didn't show me, or my property the same respect I showed him. It's a shame, really, makes everyone respect some aspects of the CPS duty a little less.

Well, that is a really good question that you bring up. I think it completely depends on who you are dealing with and who the officer is. I know for me, the idea of someone stepping out of their car and using a sharp edged tool to remove window tint is a safety concern for me - I know that sounds lame, but since we don't know who the people are that we deal with, it's a legitimate concern.

As Dayglow said, you can certainly start a complaint and it will be put through start to finish, contrary to what some of the anti-police folks say. I can say this though: I don't think any one would intentionally damage your property, and I really hope in your case that holds true.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by mugen6




man i was planning to become a cop too cause a buddy of mine has finished, but since you put it this way of what you can or cannot do. makes me wonder about calgary cops

It's nothing to worry about - it's a basic principle of arrest that the Criminal Code, and our connection via POPA, that allows us to do such things. We don't write the laws, we just enforce them and use the tools given to us. As I said, I don't think anyone in history has ever arrested anyone for window tint and probably won't, but it COULD be done. Once again, police discretion goes a looooooong way with these things. :)

[88jbody]

I have been stopped many many times. most of the time treated more then fair.

pulled for speeding after I moved here licence from another province and my other province plate expired

written warning and told to take care of it before driving it anywhere but stright home.

pulled for speeding and given a seatbelt ticket to save from no demerits.

have been pulled over and gotten a ticket several times as well, but they were polite, and treated me with respect becasue I stopped when they came up and told me why I was stopped admitted I was int he wrong, gave all the paper work to them. and even after I got my ticket still told him to have a good day.

why? becasue that is his job

[Toma]

Originally posted by phil98z24


It's nothing to worry about - it's a basic principle of arrest that the Criminal Code, and our connection via POPA, that allows us to do such things. We don't write the laws, we just enforce them and use the tools given to us. ....

Tinted windows under the TSA are now a criminal code offense?

[88jbody]

Originally posted by Toma


Tinted windows under the TSA are now a criminal code offense?

only against you. every one knows you are nothing but trouble :drama:

I kid I kid

[alloroc]

Again two of my best friends are either on the force or have recently quit. I respect the job and truthfully it is a job I doubt I could handle myself and I totally respect the police.

I have also only been given one (well two) BS tickets (one incident) and that was in the early 80s.

Near a place I used to live there was a long downhill with ice at the bottom ... and a stop sign, no matter how fast you rolled onto the ice that year you slid through. The only part of the street that was gravelled was a stretch about 15 feet long ... after the stop sign which is where -coincidently- the cop was sitting facing the wrong way waiting for everyone to finally stop beside him. Most everyone still had front license plates back then and the SOB had my tickets filled out before I even reached him. "speeding too fast for the conditions and failing to stop.

Again I respect the police. Do i think they could do a better job and re-allocate resources? ABSOLUTELY

But to understand my frustration let me recount other brushes with the law - or lack thereof throughout my life.

The four car stereos , two amps, two sets of speakers and three sets of stereo knobs that were stolen from one of my cars in at least 5 reported incidents in a perod of two years, never recovered no charges laid.

The home speakers stolen from my garage, reported stolen never recovered no feedback from police.

The Alternator and starter stolen out of my neighbors truck .. reported - never recovered no charges laid .. who the fuck steals an alternator and starter anyway?

The kids that nearly ran me over in my back alley in not one but two stolen toyota minivans and sideswiped my 240z where reported but no charges laid. It was winter and they got stuck in the back alley i went out to see wth was going on just as they got unstuck and crashed off my car and damn near ran me over. I had to dive back into the yard.
Edit oh ya: I almost get killed I phoned right away, and there were TWO vans joyriding the city streets in the wee morning hours. The police showed up at about three the next afternoon to take a 'report'

A fellow student and good friend of mine at SAIT was pulled out of the classroom at gunpoint by the RCMP and 'roughed up' in the hallway -hit and chocked etc- because they found his stolen firebird and it had been used in some robberies, they thought he did it!! However Two days earlier he had already reported his car stolen from the Anderson LRT lot to the city police - Who neglected to inform the RCMP. (this was the third time his car was stolen - no charges that I know of in the first two thefts)

The three 'kids' who assaulted my mom one night while she was walking her dog, Never charged. A camera stolen from my mom's car in another incident a few weeks later was recovered from a pawn shop - hooray. The camera was broken however.

My poor old beat up supra has been broken into in my back alley where I live now at least four times in the last year and a half (two times since this last Jan1) I recovered some goods that were strewn down the alley one morning. After all the incidents above I don't even bother reporting any more as I know the results.

My neice's Van was stolen only a few weeks ago and was found less than 5 km away three days later, no charges laid.

What do you want me to say. Keep up the good work?

[Toma]

^^^ Good post... its exactly what I mean. I really honestly, without being a dickhead have to say, I have had far more bad come from cops then good. Like 10:0 lol

Turning "traffic safety" and equating it with the criminal code is just moronic.

Harassing people cause of tinted windows? Come on man. What's the point? I like tint. Keeps the car cooler in the sun, protects the interior from fade, and on some cars, it looks bitchin'

Why is it such a big deal? Who doesn't roll down their windows anyway as a cop approaches. Its no danger, though I am sure these guys taht walk around with guns will argue otherwise.

Making the ordinary citizen a criminal over minor BS "offenses" is ludicrous.

Tinted Window.... minor (and meaningless) TSA infraction, versus destruction of private property (criminal code).... hmmmm better get the hero cookie out, that cop is really serving the public good.

[Toma]

Oh.... I stopped reporting shit that is not going to insurance. It's a waste of time.

Obviously j walking tickets, tinted window tickets, and other BS is certainly more important then solving CRIME.

Traffic cops = overpaid illegal tax collectors. Traffic should be enforced by bylaw, cops should do cop work.

[canuckcarguy]

I know it's not always the individual cop's fault for enforcing ridiculous laws, so I don't always blame the cop, but let's be serious here:

The law against window tint is pretty ridiculous. It's one of those nanny-state rules that may have a tiny amount of merit, but has become an excuse to hassle drivers and generate revenue. If the true intent of the law were to allow windows to be easily broken to allow access in the event of an accident, why stop at the front windows? Isn't it equally important to be able to remove the injured from the back seats? Especially since this is where children are mandated to ride?

When cops pull over motorists and hassle them without probable cause, and then levy BS tickets against them that are clearly designed to generate revenue and intimidate certain demographics, they're overstepping their bounds, and undermining their community reputation. It's pretty hard to have faith in the justice system when its most visible ambassadors pay the most attention to issues that have zero impact.

It might be true that most cops would drop a minor traffic stop to respond to a major call, but the truth is that if more of them were walking a beat or actually (gasp!) trying to catch criminals instead of hassling drivers, we'd have a safer society, and they'd deserve (and get) more respect.

[kaput]

.

[DayGlow]

My I humbly suggest to some people here with perverted or unrealistic expectations on cops to apply for a ride a long. It's open to anyone in the public and will give you a much clearer understanding on how and why things go solved and unsolved once you see it first hand.

I fully agree that there are some really nit-picky stupid laws out there and I can say I have never personally written a tint or exhaust ticket.

But to say cops should get out of traffic enforcement is not the answer. My biggest hope when I do a stop? I hope it's someone with warrants or drugs in the car so I can make an arrest. Or at least get a suspended driver with no insurance off of the road. A lot of crime is solved through traffic stops. It's the jumping off point for much bigger investigations. Nothing is better than finding a gang banger breaching his probation and through investigation finding guns and drugs in the car. If that means I pull him over for tint or a burnt out license plate light, well that's what go me to the point where I can arrest them. Most guys I work with are the same way. Yes there are those who just love to write tickets. They are the ones that go to traffic. Most see tickets as a gateway to something bigger coming from the stop.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Toma


Tinted windows under the TSA are now a criminal code offense?

I didn't say it was a Criminal Code offence - I said that POPA gives us that connection to the Criminal Code that allows us powers of arrest for provincial legislation and bylaw offences IF required. I'm not equating TSA offences with Criminal offences in any way, just merely stating that a piece of legislation is in place that allows us arrest powers for certain offences. It would serve you well to read up on some of these acts so that you may bring some valid points to this discussion, instead of assuming something that was not even close to being implied.

As I have always said to you, Toma, unless you work for us and know what is happening, you have no leg to stand on regarding how we conduct business. You don't know how the law is enforced or how things ACTUALLY work, you just have some flawed perception of how you THINK it works. Let me fill you in on some things:

- Stolen cars are not easy to find, or stop. Even if someone witnesses their car being stolen, the crackhead loser that is driving it has absolutely no regard for the law of anyone else and as such, drives like a raped ape to get as far away as possible. We are not about to engage such people, or pursue them. The amount of cars that get stolen everyday in this city makes it extremely, if not, impossible, to actively go out and find them. (For example, that cop you pulled you over because a similar vehicle had been stolen. You don't like that we didn't find yours right away, but God forbid we try to find others, eh?) However; there are cops like me who run hundreds of plates a day in an effort to find stolen vehicles - and what do you know? Sometimes it pays off. I've recovered lots of stolen vehicles, and most of the time there is absolutely no way in hell to find out who stolen it or the circumstances. You can't just fingerprint every car and do magic CSI stuff - it's not from laziness on our part, it's constraints placed on us by methods. If you can find a better way, you tell me and I'll pass it on.

- Stolen items, including wallets, electronics, etc, are even harder to find. Most of those items are either sold immediately, or in the case of wallets, contents taken and dumped in the trash. Do you think we have some room full of officers who track every single credit/debit/whatever card and it's activities to find out what is going on or who may be using them so we can find them? You are right, NO, we don't. You know why? Because the banks have those people, and they are our resource for finding these people. Once again, you step up with a better way, and I'll pass that on too. I'm sure our overinundated specialty units who deal with this type of crime, especially the one who specifically liases with the pawn shops and second hand shops, would love some of big wheel Toma's suggestions.

- Police officers are directed in how they spend some of their time, but we also have alot of time in which we do proactive policing and followup on cases that we are involved in. Here is an example of how my shift can break down on an average busy day:

25% Directed patrol/proactive police work
50% Responding to calls
5% Traffic enforcement (on view type offences, not Laser)
19% Followup on cases, whether they be traffic or criminal
1% Lunch/personal time

I think alot of guys would agree this is how their days are spent, because they are busting ass trying to solve crimes and make life better for people, even the ones like you who don't appreciate a single thing we do unless it directly serves you in some way. Just this week alone I wrapped up two 6 month old cases, because my checking every day for new information finally paid off. Funny thing is, they weren't anything considered very serious but it was obviously important to the person who reported it, so I did my job just like anyone else would and saw it through from start to finish. As mentioned 2 times previous, if you can tell me a better way to spend my time and how I can be a more effective police officer, I'm all ears.

Until then, I'm with Dayglow and Bluegoblin - you used to be fun to debate with, now you bring very little to the table. As Bluegoblin said, that ship has sailed.. and the 10-21 ship has docked and fully unloaded.

[canuckcarguy]

Originally posted by kaput


You should arrange for a ride along at night. If they pull over a drug dealer or a stolen vehicle with dark tint I would love to see you approach the vehicle.

Good point. Then that must be the reasoning behind the rule, right? Not emergency access?

I suppose we're just lucky that criminals are always in the front seat, and never in the back seats, where the tint on the rear glass / rear side glass is legal.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by phil98z24



- Police officers are directed in how they spend some of their time, but we also have alot of time in which we do proactive policing and followup on cases that we are involved in. Here is an example of how my shift can break down on an average busy day:

25% Directed patrol/proactive police work
50% Responding to calls
5% Traffic enforcement (on view type offences, not Laser)
19% Followup on cases, whether they be traffic or criminal
1% Lunch/personal time

Until then, I'm with Dayglow and Bluegoblin - you used to be fun to debate with, now you bring very little to the table. As Bluegoblin said, that ship has sailed.. and the 10-21 ship has docked and fully unloaded.

4.8 minutes for lunch?
Give me a break, I have been on 'ridealongs.'
Its not personal I know you work hard, your a supercop.
I just wish all members of the force worked as hard as you obviously do.

There are at least three cruisers on weekends that I think could be put to better use. The businesses in the area are complaining I understand but isn't there a way to actually catch the 'racers' in the act?

Let me lay out a scenario that will happen.
Someone's car is going to get stolen and because the Police do not act the members of this board will eventually do something stupid, and someone is going to get hurt. (as you know they already have put themselves in danger a few times.) The public perception is that you do not act. Whether you do or don't isn't the problem. The public thinks you do not. The public is getting frustrated. It will happen and you know it.

I don't have the answers but I do know what the police are doing at that location is not helping the general public's opinion of how police resources are allocated.

That and cutting someone's window ... is morally wrong.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by canuckcarguy


Good point. Then that must be the reasoning behind the rule, right? Not emergency access?

I suppose we're just lucky that criminals are always in the front seat, and never in the back seats, where the tint on the rear glass / rear side glass is legal.

I thought it was for pedestrian safety. So pedestrians can make eye contact. Because kids on bikes always look drivers in the eye.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by alloroc


4.8 minutes for lunch?
Give me a break, I have been on 'ridealongs.'
Its not personal I know you work hard, your a supercop.
I just wish all members of the force worked as hard as you obviously do.

There are at least three cruisers on weekends that I think could be put to better use. The businesses in the area are complaining I understand but isn't there a way to actually catch the 'racers' in the act?

Let me lay out a scenario that will happen.
Someone's car is going to get stolen and because the Police do not act the members of this board will eventually do something stupid, and someone is going to get hurt. (as you know they already have put themselves in danger a few times.) The public perception is that you do not act. Whether you do or don't isn't the problem. The public thinks you do not. The public is getting frustrated. It will happen and you know it.

I don't have the answers but I do know what the police are doing at that location is not helping the general public's opinion of how police resources are allocated.

That and cutting someone's window ... is morally wrong.

I know that my numbers aren't accurate, I'm just trying to illustrate a point. The vast majority spend alot more time doing their work than anything else, is all I'm trying to say. I'm sure you understand that.

As far as the whole public perception debate; I could not agree with you more. Perception is reality, there is no more simple way to put it. I guess what I'm trying to do is get the message out that the few officers out there who people believe aren't doing their jobs, simply because they are doing a publicly despired part of the job, are actually doing what we were hired to do - and that it doesn't negatively affect how crime is fought or solved. Not only that, but I'm also trying to get out the message that we aren't a bunch of slackasses who hang out all day and do nothing, and yes, we too are entitled to our breaks and times to eat just like anyone else - so please don't assume that just because we are there, that we aren't doing anything. Keep this in mind as well - of all the vehicles that get stolen everyday and sent out on broadcast messages, do you think we can remember them and actively respond all the time? Just because we don't move as fast as some people think we do, doesn't mean we aren't doing anything. I think the public perception is that we have infinite resources and availability, but it just isn't the case. It's just as frustrating for me sitting on this side of the debate as it is for you guys on the other side.

Regarding the street racing, I can't really speak to that. The only way I've caught street racers is to be in the area and actively see them racing, which carries a high burden of proof to prosecute. Again, that takes resources that people think are better allocated - despite the fact that vehicle related fatalities kill and injure more people than anything else in this country.

There is no simple answer or any way that can remedy this situation besides doubling our numbers and having us on every street corner, which you and I both know can't happen.

[Toma]

Originally posted by phil98z24


As I have always said to you, Toma, unless you work for us and know what is happening, you have no leg to stand on regarding how we conduct business.

Riiight...

just shut up and take the abuse of power?.... riiigght. :nut:

[b.rad240]

Originally posted by phil98z24


Sure we can - and guess what else we can do in addition to that or towing the car? If it really calls for it, we can arrest people for having tinted windows in order to prevent continuation of the offense, ie; driving with said tinted windows. That likely has never happened, but it can be done. So as Bluegoblin already said, go take a look at Canlii.org, and look up Provincial Offences Procedures Act while you are at it.

I'm sure we know full well what we can and can't do, sorry to burst your bubble. ;)

Can we assume the officer checked the 35% validity of the tinit? if an excess of 35% yes they can do what they like.

[Toma]

Originally posted by phil98z24



- Stolen cars are not easy to find, or stop. Even if someone witnesses their car being stolen, the crackhead loser that is driving it has absolutely no regard for the law of anyone else and as such, drives like a raped ape to get as far away as possible. We are not about to engage such people, or pursue them. (For example, that cop you pulled you over because a similar vehicle had been stolen. You don't like that we didn't find yours right away, but God forbid we try to find others, eh?)

So WHAT THE FUCK are you here for then? Harass law abiding citizens with bogus CRAP, and leave the CRIMINALS alone?

Stop posting before you give cops a bad name.

Seriosuly though... the moron cop pulled me over to be an ass and used the "stolen car" excuse. How hard is it to run the plate, see that it belongs to me, and that the plate belongs on a one of 5000 orange blast '05 SRT-4?

Duh.

Harassment. Pure and simple.

[alloroc]

Originally posted by b.rad240


Can we assume the officer checked the 35% validity of the tinit? if an excess of 35% yes they can do what they like.

Errmm read the traffic act it is posted like 4 times in this thread.

It basically says this ...
No one in Alberta is allowed to put anything on the windows beside the driver of any shade of tint unless the shade being put on is to match a previously installed shaded window by the manufacturer > replace a broken window.
No one in Alberta is allowed to operate a motor vehicle where said film/shading/tinting has been installed on the windows beside the driver.

It also says that cops can pretty much do what they like regardless. ... Which is what worries me. Not all are as honorable as the three who are posting in this thread. The allowance is there for shall I say .. SEVERE .. abuse.

I won't go as far as Toma ... hell ... who does.

but as stated above by one of the boys in blue.

Originally posted by phil98z24
As far as the whole public perception debate; I could not agree with you more. Perception is reality, there is no more simple way to put it. and the perception is that most crimes go unsolved.

[Toma]

In all seriousness.... I have nothing against some cops. I know some VERY good ones that are friends or acquaintances, and unfortunately, I also know (personally) some scumbags.

But some of the traffic laws are plain stupid, and the extent some cops go in exploiting loopholes to create a criminal out of regular joe blow is ridiculous.

If you are bored.... here is a hint.... the scumbags riding their bicycles 'aimlessly' at night in Forest lawn and downtown.... yeah... they sell drugs.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Toma


So WHAT THE FUCK are you here for then? Harass law abiding citizens with bogus CRAP, and leave the CRIMINALS alone?

Stop posting before you give cops a bad name.

Seriosuly though... the moron cop pulled me over to be an ass and used the "stolen car" excuse. How hard is it to run the plate, see that it belongs to me, and that the plate belongs on a one of 5000 orange blast '05 SRT-4?

Duh.

Harassment. Pure and simple.

I'm here to catch bad guys and enforce the law, and better the lives of law abiding citizens. It's my fault for not explaining what I meant there by not engaging these people - what I am saying is the we aren't going to pursue them or use tactics that are going to get innocent people killed, or other serious consequences. If I attempt to stop a stolen car, which I have done a number of times, and it takes off on me, I'm not going to pursue it, plain and simple. Then again, I suppose that doesn't work for you either? I'm sure you think pursuits end all nice and pretty, and that a stolen car is potentially worth people's lives, and property damage, and so on and so forth.

Seriously though... us moron cops don't always have information that a car is stolen, for example, when we see it being driven in a strange manner or driven by people who we know steal cars, and it is not yet reported stolen - or it has been, and it hasn't been put onto CPIC yet. Which, BTW, is not our fault - you can blame the RCMP for that.. it's their baby, not ours.

And just so you know, I'm going to keep posting so long as you and others strive to keep bashing us without offering any sort of solution. I'm not about to insult you or sink to the level that you do when you slag us, but I get the perception that you are one of those people who would rather complain than take an active role.. that makes you part of the problem too. If you really think we are that bad, and that we don't do our jobs, then you should really call in to your alderman, MLA, the ombudsman for Alberta Justice, the Premier's office, the Mayor, whoever you see fit - and tell them what you think and how it can be changed. I'm all for accountability, especially when we seem to act so maliciously and with ill intent, like every officer you've ever dealt with.

Besides, do you really think I can give us any more of a bad name than you think we have? I'm just bringing valid points and facts to the table, nothing more. Would you rather me act like the arrogant, gun toting monkey you think we all are?

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by Toma
In all seriousness.... I have nothing against some cops. I know some VERY good ones that are friends or acquaintances, and unfortunately, I also know (personally) some scumbags.

But some of the traffic laws are plain stupid, and the extent some cops go in exploiting loopholes to create a criminal out of regular joe blow is ridiculous.

If you are bored.... here is a hint.... the scumbags riding their bicycles 'aimlessly' at night in Forest lawn and downtown.... yeah... they sell drugs.

I couldn't agree more - as Dayglow said, I've never written a tint ticket or exhaust or empty windshield washer reservoir ticket in my life. I believe those to be silly laws, but those are the same laws that allow us to pull over the low life scumbags who are stealing and causing havoc in good people's lives. They are useful for certain reasons.

As far as those guys who ride their bikes are night in Forest Lawn, I can't do much about that - but I have certainly caught more than my fair share of the downtowners, and then some. I think the real problem lies in the fact that we catch them, but our super bleeding heart justice system releases them and they are back out again, so it looks like we do nothing about it.

Again, perception is reality - and we can't do much about that unless we live in a true police state, which isn't going to happen and noone wants to happen. Toma, I have nothing against you or your views, I just would like to hear some serious constructive ideas about what you would do to fix things.