$10-$15k to spent on daily driver/winter car - Good choices?

[Ekliptix]

I have $10-$15k to spend on a DD for the weekdays and winter. I was initially looking at TDi's in the US, but then I realized how much more maintenance and repair costs is for European imports. Plus TDis are in high demand right now to the pickings are slim.

I'm pretty sure a Japanese car is going to be my best bet, and there are plenty of sub 100,000km civics available. I'm not familiar with all the civic models, however.

With that said, what are some other options I should consider?

There are some decently prices Subaru Foresters out there, but I'm not sure about their reliability, and I know a civic would get better fuel economy.

Here are my list of requirements:
- Uses less then 9L/100km city
- Would prefer standard, but not required
- Fwd or awd
- 4 door preferred, but not required
- Very reliable
- Under 100,000km
- Styling that I can stand

There's probably dozens of cars out there that fit into these requirements, but what I hope is people will bring up cars that I have not considered.

Thanks :)

[Sorath]

i`d pick up an 03 civic for 10grand or less just to give u some quick info on that year of civics

dx = base
dx-g/se = base with a/c and power locks
lx = pw/pl/ac/pm/cruise
si = pw/pl/ac/pm/cruise/alloy wheels/sunroof

[A790]

I bought my Saab for $13,800 and love it. It has more features than any Civic, looks awesome, and gets wicked fuel economy.

Plus, Saabs are luxury cars that seem to have shitty resale. Good for you if you're picking it up used ;)

[bobby_lu]

Originally posted by A790
I bought my Saab for $13,800 and love it. It has more features than any Civic, looks awesome, and gets wicked fuel economy.

Plus, Saabs are luxury cars that seem to have shitty resale. Good for you if you're picking it up used ;)

lol he is worried about reliability...:nut:

[Rstar]

Buy a Subaru!!

I never plugged my WRX in during the -40 cold snap and it started right up every time and the awd was fun and reassuring.

[toastgremlin]

The Forester is pretty solid; it's mechanically mostly the same as the Impreza. The Forester XT is the turbocharged edition, but I doubt you'll find one for $15K.

TrueDelta (http://www.truedelta.com/) (registration required) seems to state that the Forester is pretty reliable.

[LiquidK]

my 02 civic lx is probably the most dependable car ive ever driven

[A790]

Originally posted by bobby_lu


lol he is worried about reliability...:nut:
Haven't had a problem yet.

[Grogador]

Cool, I am in the same boat, but would prefer 2dr... and moonroof :D

[bobby_lu]

Originally posted by A790

Haven't had a problem yet.

try googling Saab reliability..but hey maybe you got a lucky one.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Rstar
Buy a Subaru!!

I never plugged my WRX in during the -40 cold snap and it started right up every time and the awd was fun and reassuring.

Cue the Subaru boys.

You think that's impressive, my 1993 MR2 came from San Diego (no block heater of course) last fall had never seen snow and started first turn every day in that -40 cold snap. Let me know if your Subaru can do that when it's 15 years old lol.

Also; FWD with winter tires > AWD with allseason tires

[analbumcover]

08 Hyundai Accent

[max_boost]

Nothing wrong with used cars if you are mechanically inclined and are able to fix a lot of the small stuff that wear out over time.

Why not just lease something cheap in the $300/month range? You'll get a brand new economy car that has full warranty. Unless you don't like monthly payments, don't like owing money and prefer to own a car out right? haha

Anyway, my recommendation for a cheap second car will always be the Civic. Unlimited selection, proven reliable history. There's 3 in my family :D

[Xtrema]

03+ Civic
03+ Altima 2.5 (some 03 Altima 3.5 are in that range as well if you don't mind going over 9L/100km)
04+ Madza 3/6
04+ Volvo S40
04+ Tibby
04+ Cobalt/G5


Used car sale is in the dumpster, you can have many nice rides for cheap.

Leasing is an option but I doubt I want to pay year round for a car that only used for Winter. And some of those used cars may have a year or 2 left on powertrain warranty as well.

[A790]

Originally posted by bobby_lu


try googling Saab reliability..but hey maybe you got a lucky one.
Oh yea, TONS of problems :rolleyes:. A Saab is just as reliable as any other car. I've put over 13,000 km on my car since I bought it, and aside from getting awesome gas mileage, haven't had anything notable happen. My car even has 114,xxx KM on it at this point, and it's still running strong.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Reliability.aspx?year=2006&make=Saab&model=9-3&trimid=-1

http://www.anusedcar.com/index.php/tuv-model/saab-9-3

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080317001946AAW6bRJ

http://www.smartcarguide.com/reviews/Saab

[max_boost]

My 0.02 on my dad's 03 Forester.

5 years old, 210,000kms + so averages 40,000kms/year

ZERO problems.

Other than changing the oil and other fluids, tires, and brakes, this thing just keeps going. :thumbsup:

[teggypimp95]

I have a 2001 jetta for sale, will let go for under 10gs.

165k, ALL highway,

All Maintance done

Heated seats and mirrors,

traction controll (amazing in winter)

5spd 1.8T

450-500km per tank in city.

[HK2NR]

look up issues on 96-04 legacy/outback/foresters with the EJ25 motor (stage 1 and stage 2) headgasket issues. NASIOC has a good write up stating almost 90% have some sort of head gasket problem eventually.

[ragu]

I would recommend 02 Civic or 03 rsx-s; you can pick either one with less than 100k and pretty decent condition for less than 15g :thumbsup:

[Ekliptix]

Originally posted by max_boost
Why not just lease something cheap in the $300/month range? You'll get a brand new economy car that has full warranty. Unless you don't like monthly payments, don't like owing money and prefer to own a car out right? haha

Anyway, my recommendation for a cheap second car will always be the Civic. Unlimited selection, proven reliable history. There's 3 in my family :D
I've always straight out owned all my cars, so the only appeal to leasing for me is I can get a brand new car with a warrenty. I might consider it actually, since I don't plan to mod it and I'll keep it for a number of years. Ugh, but then there's GST haha.

I really like the newer civics so you may have convinced me.
:)

[Ekliptix]

Originally posted by analbumcover
08 Hyundai Accent
Not fan of it's appearance.


Originally posted by Xtrema
03+ Civic
03+ Altima 2.5 (some 03 Altima 3.5 are in that range as well if you don't mind going over 9L/100km)
04+ Madza 3/6
04+ Volvo S40
04+ Tibby
04+ Cobalt/G5

Used car sale is in the dumpster, you can have many nice rides for cheap.

Leasing is an option but I doubt I want to pay year round for a car that only used for Winter. And some of those used cars may have a year or 2 left on powertrain warranty as well.
I like the Volvos, but am afraid of the maintenance costs. The mazdas seem pretty decent, I really like Mazdaspeed3.


Originally posted by teggypimp95
I have a 2001 jetta for sale, will let go for under 10gs.

Not interested in European cars. I think I mentioned that I'm not considering VW's at the very top.

[Redlyne_mr2]

One of those ep3 civic sir's should be in your range, nice hatch with lots of space, also the 01+ lancers, a buddy of mine has a white OZ edition, he has had it since brand new, it has 180K kms on it, never had any issues with it at all and he drives it hard.

[TE4MFaint]

+1 to an EP3 civic.
Not very common cars, and the more I look at them, the more I love the styling of them.

Im also in the same situation as you, its hard to find a reliable DD for around $15,000 that isnt a dime a dozen vehicle.

02/03 Subaru WRX's.
Jetta TDI's
EP3 Civic


Those are three I think you should keep an eye out for.

[pyroza]

How about a Hyundai Elantra?

[Graham_A_M]

I have a '99 Saturn SL2 that I use as a winter car. Been in my family since new, never broken down, despite having 275k on the clock. 41mpg on the highway, enough power (manual)

The 97 and newer SL series are great cars. Dont be caught dead with a 96 or older though. YIKES!!! I've heard the stories.
I love that little car to bits. Burns oil, but thats it. A mind boggling $500 has been sunk into it since new (regular maintenence as in spark plugs etc) and thats it. Just goes and goes and goes.


I VERY VERY highly recommend againest a Volkswagen. My family and family friends (as well as my friends) have had nothing but gong show type experiences with VW. My dads '03 Jetta TDI was a total lemon, incessant electrical problems. We averaged about 50mpg on the highway (no a/c), not the 61 or whatever they listed it as.
:guns:

[E36M3]

Acura 3.2TL would be an outstanding choice.. you could get a nice one for 15k.


Originally posted by Ekliptix
I have $10-$15k to spend on a DD for the weekdays and winter. I was initially looking at TDi's in the US, but then I realized how much more maintenance and repair costs is for European imports. Plus TDis are in high demand right now to the pickings are slim.

I'm pretty sure a Japanese car is going to be my best bet, and there are plenty of sub 100,000km civics available. I'm not familiar with all the civic models, however.

With that said, what are some other options I should consider?

There are some decently prices Subaru Foresters out there, but I'm not sure about their reliability, and I know a civic would get better fuel economy.

Here are my list of requirements:
- Uses less then 9L/100km city
- Would prefer standard, but not required
- Fwd or awd
- 4 door preferred, but not required
- Very reliable
- Under 100,000km
- Styling that I can stand

There's probably dozens of cars out there that fit into these requirements, but what I hope is people will bring up cars that I have not considered.

Thanks :)

[gpomp]

Originally posted by E36M3
Acura 3.2TL would be an outstanding choice.. you could get a nice one for 15k.

transmission problems... http://www.carsurvey.org/viewmorecomments_review_71264_1.html

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Ekliptix

I really like the newer civics so you may have convinced me.
:)

NO.

NooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOO.

:banghead:

I haven't driven the coupe, but I've put at least 10 000km on my moms 07 sedan and the thing is a huge pile of shit. Get an older civic if you want one.

[Ekliptix]

How old, 02-04? Those EP3 SiRs are pretty decent, and $15k will get one with around 100,000km locally.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Ekliptix

I've always straight out owned all my cars, so the only appeal to leasing for me is I can get a brand new car with a warrenty. I might consider it actually, since I don't plan to mod it and I'll keep it for a number of years. Ugh, but then there's GST haha.

I really like the newer civics so you may have convinced me.
:)

Go see Sorath at T&T for a test drive and crunching numbers. He's sold a few Civics to Beyond members. I got mine from him.

I don't know what Hakkola is talking about, the Civic is a good car for the price!

[finboy]

Originally posted by max_boost


Go see Sorath at T&T for a test drive and crunching numbers. He's sold a few Civics to Beyond members. I got mine from him.

I don't know what Hakkola is talking about, the Civic is a good car for the price!

another buddy of mine had issues with his, the deck stopped working and the suspension was making noise, but it was a first year, so who knows.

ep3 gets my vote

edit: ooooo
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2002-HONDA-CIVIC-SI-TYPE-R-SWAP-K20A-6SPD-K-PRO_W0QQitemZ290249156815QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290249156815&_trksid=p3756.m14.l1318

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Ekliptix
How old, 02-04? Those EP3 SiRs are pretty decent, and $15k will get one with around 100,000km locally.

analbumcover has a nice one for sale now

[BoS_DC2]

For a Sedan, how about the 04-05 Acura 1.7EL or an 01-05 Acura RSX if you're looking for a Coupe? An alternative to the Civics.


Originally posted by Ekliptix
How old, 02-04? Those EP3 SiRs are pretty decent, and $15k will get one with around 100,000km locally.

Yes, you can get one for under $15,000 and actually around 80,000kms ++

[three.eighteen.]

yeah i think a 1.7el would fit the bill nice, i think some of them have seat heaters too...but im surprised no one has suggested a corolla

[Kavy]

Originally posted by heavyD


Cue the Subaru boys.

You think that's impressive, my 1993 MR2 came from San Diego (no block heater of course) last fall had never seen snow and started first turn every day in that -40 cold snap. Let me know if your Subaru can do that when it's 15 years old lol.

Also; FWD with winter tires > AWD with allseason tires

Winter tires grip better on snow then all seasons? That's crazy talk, I'll have none of it!

Heavy you know better then picking on the subby boys, I have a subby and a BMW so i'm an extra special Douche.

[hadookin]

lease. pay your 3-$400 per month incl. gst and insurance and invest the rest of the money where ever you want. a the end of the lease buy the car if you like it, give it back if you don't or are in a negative equity position on it.

why sink $15g into a 3 or 4 year old car when you can get a new one and keep the money in your pocket?

[Kavy]

Originally posted by hadookin
lease. pay your 3-$400 per month incl. gst and insurance and invest the rest of the money where ever you want. a the end of the lease buy the car if you like it, give it back if you don't or are in a negative equity position on it.

why sink $15g into a 3 or 4 year old car when you can get a new one and keep the money in your pocket?

Keep what money? Lease in this situation is a terrible suggestion.

3 year lease at 400 is 14,400 (im just rounding no gst and all that crap), then at the end of that 3 years you have nothing to show for it but maybe some milage overage charges. As well as having to have EVERYTHING on your insurance raising the average drivers insurance payment by $50 a month.

They DO NOT make leases now days that actually have a hope of coming out on top. Your residual will always be about 1-2k within what you can sell it for at the end of the lease sometimes even worse.

Thinking that a car build Equity is crazy, the depreciate only unless its a classic or exotic.

Reverse your thinking and say spend 15,000 now sell in 3 years for 10,000 maybe spend 2k in repairs that would have been covered on the new car warranty and only have spent 7,000 and keep your insurance payments low.

That's $9,200 saved!!!!
hell even say you sold the car for 5,000 (which would be not realistic but proves my point well) you still saved 4,200.

Find a nice investment for that saved money instead.

Which looks better now?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally posted by heavyD


Cue the Subaru boys.
Cue HeavyD to whine about the subaru remarks and set them right in their ways. Seriously, what did they do to you to make you so bitter? Did a subaru sleep with your wife?

However, they don't meet one requirement of this thread. Styling he can stand. :guns:

[hadookin]

Originally posted by Kavy


Keep what money? Lease in this situation is a terrible suggestion.

3 year lease at 400 is 14,400 (im just rounding no gst and all that crap), then at the end of that 3 years you have nothing to show for it but maybe some milage overage charges. As well as having to have EVERYTHING on your insurance raising the average drivers insurance payment by $50 a month.

They DO NOT make leases now days that actually have a hope of coming out on top. Your residual will always be about 1-2k within what you can sell it for at the end of the lease sometimes even worse.

Thinking that a car build Equity is crazy, the depreciate only unless its a classic or exotic.

Reverse your thinking and say spend 15,000 now sell in 3 years for 10,000 maybe spend 2k in repairs that would have been covered on the new car warranty and only have spent 7,000 and keep your insurance payments low.

That's $9,200 saved!!!!
hell even say you sold the car for 5,000 (which would be not realistic but proves my point well) you still saved 4,200.

Find a nice investment for that saved money instead.

Which looks better now?


let me explain this how you can understand.

You spend 15 grand on a used car. now you have $0 + 1 used car.

I lease a brand new vehicle put no money down. Now I have one new vehicle + $15,000 in my pocket to do something useful with.

If you had a single clue what $15,000 in the right places could do you would understand this logic.


So, which looks better now?

[lint]

Originally posted by hadookin



let me explain this how you can understand.

You spend 15 grand on a used car. now you have $0 + 1 used car.

I lease a brand new vehicle put no money down. Now I have one new vehicle + $15,000 in my pocket to do something useful with.

If you had a single clue what $15,000 in the right places could do you would understand this logic.


So, which looks better now?

You don't have 1 new vehicle and money in your pocket... you have monthly lease payments that will eat into that $15K. So unless your investments with that shrinking principal can generate more than $9K over the same time frame, your scenario doesn't look better.

And where are these "right places"?

[Stealth22]

^^^^

If you're looking at a Civic or Corolla, you're probably going to spend close to $15K for a REALLY good one. Decent ones can be had for a bit less. The 1-2 year old ones will usually be listed around $17K (I'm talking dealerships here), and brand new ones (depending on options) are around $20K.

In THAT situation, its smarter to lease a brand new one. Talking strictly dealerships here, their profit margin on smaller cars (especially the leasebacks) is not as much as some people think.

But remember that the OP is just looking for a cheap car to use as a daily driver. I personally would not enter into a lease on a brand new one for that. For a car that he may not keep forever, I'd just spend $12K on a used (2003-2004) Corolla or Civic. $12K will buy you a decent car of either model.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by hadookin



let me explain this how you can understand.

You spend 15 grand on a used car. now you have $0 + 1 used car.

I lease a brand new vehicle put no money down. Now I have one new vehicle + $15,000 in my pocket to do something useful with.

If you had a single clue what $15,000 in the right places could do you would understand this logic.


So, which looks better now?

:werd:
That's how I have always looked at it.


Originally posted by lint


You don't have 1 new vehicle and money in your pocket... you have monthly lease payments that will eat into that $15K. So unless your investments with that shrinking principal can generate more than $9K over the same time frame, your scenario doesn't look better.

And where are these "right places"?

Well, you will be working and making money to make your lease payments? Yes?

I fucking hate car repairs on used cars so only newer/warranty cars for me.

$15K, give it to ZorroAMG and he'll turn it into $30K in 2-3 years. Hopefully :D

[lint]

Originally posted by max_boost


:werd:
That's how I have always looked at it.



Well, you will be working and making money to make your lease payments? Yes?

I fucking hate car repairs on used cars so only newer/warranty cars for me.

$15K, give it to ZorroAMG and he'll turn it into $30K in 2-3 years. Hopefully :D

Point is you don't have $15K to invest for 3 years. You need that $15K to make monthly payments. Hadookin is using an example of a finite amount of money for 3 years. Not working to pay the lease and then investing the $15K.

[analbumcover]

If you are still looking PM me, I would be willing to work something out with you

[blownz]

Originally posted by max_boost
Hopefully :D

That is the one big problem with investing.


And to the OP: I have a buddy selling a red 07 Focus ZX5 (the 5 door hatch) for $12,500 which fits nicely in your price range. It has tan heated leather seats, sunroof, pw, pl, etc. Basically a fully loaded model. 45k on it so still under warranty and the newer Focus's are quite reliable compared to the original ones.

For that price virtually any import is going to be at least 3 years older, have less options, way more mileage and you will actually have to worry about maintenance. This thing should cost you nothing for at least a few years. :thumbsup:

[Neil4Speed]

I would go with G35 Sedan, or a 02+ Acura TL.

[blownz]

^ did you notice the mileage expectations he had in his original post? Neither of those cars fits what he is looking for.

[mekeni]

04 Accord

[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by blownz
^ did you notice the mileage expectations he had in his original post? Neither of those cars fits what he is looking for.

True, however you can find some that are reasonably close

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Acura-2002-Acura-3-2-TL-W0QQAdIdZ66936702

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Infiniti-G35-W0QQAdIdZ65225674

[blownz]

^ I meant mileage as in MPG. He said it needs to get better than 9L/100km in the city. So he is basically looking at a smaller 4 cylinder car for the most part.

[Skyline_Addict]

what about a used Honda Fit? since they only came out in 2007, it would be hard to find one within your budget, but it wouldn't be too far out of it. it sounds like the type of car you would like as a DD from your description. hard part would be finding someone willing to sell such a new, high demand car.

i might be selling mine though! :D

[88CRX]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict
what about a used Honda Fit? since they only came out in 2007, it would be hard to find one within your budget, but it wouldn't be too far out of it. it sounds like the type of car you would like as a DD from your description. hard part would be finding someone willing to sell such a new, high demand car.

i might be selling mine though! :D


Used fits are so damn overpriced! As are used 07+ FG Civic's. Your better off buying/leasing new for the extra couple grand over a used one.

Or get an EP3 like others have said. Lots of interior and storage space. Decent pickup for daily driver and they have finally started to come down to resonable prices.

I've been tossing around the idea of picking up another vehicle (used FG civic or Fit) and I'm leaning more and more towards getting another EP3 from the states.