Speedtech Integra Dyno

[ls/vtec-crx]

1998 Integra GS-R
Dynoed the car yesterday at davenport.

Max POWER=291.4
Max TORQUE=236.8

Dynoed the car at 8-9psi after the fifth run the oil light came on. Check oil level, fine. Checked oil pressure, none. Towed it back to the shop and the brand new Type R oil pump broke into pieces. Waiting for Pro Drive oil pump gear and then we will dyno again at 14psi for normal 91-94 octane and then 22psi on C16 race fuel. Will post next dyno result.

http://www.virgeweb.com/ben/psylence/ImportShowoff2003/images/IMG_1288.JPG

[nismodrifter]

that is t3h :bigpimp:

nice work:burnout:

[Eric Happy Meal]

very nice and clean looking.

[^SkylinE^]

Got boost? Thats crazy! Good work!

[88CRX]

holy shit!!!! 300hp:drool:

[ecstasy_civic]

i remember that car, fuck thats insane:thumbsup:

[90_Shelby]

Good to hear it's nothing too serious Alan. Save the pieces as I would like to check it out.

This car should make some serious power. :eek:

P.S. We need a bigger turbo;)

[Redlyne_mr2]

Ahh so youre the dude with the teg that got the ticket while tuning last Saturday..nice car..nice numbers

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx
1998 Integra GS-R
Dynoed the car yesterday at davenport.

Max POWER=291.4
Max TORQUE=236.8

Dynoed the car at 8-9psi after the fifth run the oil light came on. Check oil level, fine. Checked oil pressure, none. Towed it back to the shop and the brand new Type R oil pump broke into pieces. Waiting for Pro Drive oil pump gear and then we will dyno again at 14psi for normal 91-94 octane and then 22psi on C16 race fuel. Will post next dyno result.


I respect that you told the truth on a forum about the problems on the dyno...most places would hide that info.

Nice numbers. Mod list?

[Madspinner]

That is sweet ,I hope to get my teg up to those numbers.What kind of 1/4 are you doing.What kind of mods are done.

[shadowz]

Last year with Greddy kit @ 15 psi he dynoed at 261, and ran a 13.8 we'll see what he runs this year should be quick

[redline]

Hey alan that is a common problem with honda oil pumps, BTW if you are ordering one of prodrive gears bring one in for me also!

what size of turbo? Those are great numbers for 8-9psi good job!

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ahh so youre the dude with the teg that got the ticket while tuning last Saturday..nice car..nice numbers

Yeah it was my last tuning pull and i got jacked!



Originally posted by Hollywood


I respect that you told the truth on a forum about the problems on the dyno...most places would hide that info.

Nice numbers. Mod list?

I don't why people were saying that i blew my head gasket when i dynoed my type r. I would have not been driving it after the dyno if i blew it. I blew the head gasket like 3 months later. Why would people have to hide that kind of info anyways.



Originally posted by redline
Hey alan that is a common problem with honda oil pumps, BTW if you are ordering one of prodrive gears bring one in for me also!

what size of turbo? Those are great numbers for 8-9psi good job!

Yes i can order you one oil pump gear.
And the turbo we are using is a Garrett GT30 Ball Bearing with a 63-70 trim.

[Ben]

Damn awesome work, seems every time I stop in something new and amazing is taking place. Love it...Love it.

[redline]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx


And the turbo we are using is a Garrett GT30 Ball Bearing with a 63-70 trim.

What does that relate to in terms of t3/t4 turbo sizes? I can't remember that stuff anymore.

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by redline


What does that relate to in terms of t3/t4 turbo sizes? I can't remember that stuff anymore.

In Turbonetics terms it's basically a T3/T60-1 so it's almost as big as Brad's but Brad's is a T4/T62-1.

[DUBBED]

i like the direction speedtech is taking tuning...

bout time we see a shop like that in calgary

[redline]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx


In Turbonetics terms it's basically a T3/T60-1 so it's almost as big as Brad's but Brad's is a T4/T62-1.

Brads is still alot bigger but that is still one :bigpimp: turbo

[illeagle]

wanna race?

[Isonex]

I was at speed Tech the other day Alan let me look at this car first hand, I must say VERY nice, lots of eye candy on this ride. I hope it pushes the 400+ with the 22 PSI...

P.s- Alan if you read this my bad about not calling you on those KYB's..I had a job interveiw

Chris

[maxboost_R]

Sweet can't wait to hear what that thing will run on 22psi of boost hey Allan did u get my pm

[boi-alien]

shit 22psi! good stuff! nice numbers!

[ls/vtec-crx]

Yeah i can't wait. But 22psi is just the beginning! WERE ARE GOING FOR 25psi-28psi.

[syeve]

:drool: :drool: mmmm 2 bar...:drool:

[syeve]

I heard BIG ####'s today...I will let Al post...dont want to steal his thunder..muahaha

[shadowz]

Oooh ya some very nice numbers, wait till Al gets back from Davenport

[4G63Power]

Come on Al...less slacking...more posting :D

[ls/vtec-crx]

Well the new update is:

12psi on 91 octane fuel

Max Power= 355.0
Max Torque= 254.3

These are the new numbers which we have just done today @ 12psi.

The next run will be next week @22psi on C16 race fuel.

[ecstasy_civic]

It must be unreal to drive??

Any plans on taking it to the track anytime soon?

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic
It must be unreal to drive??

Any plans on taking it to the track anytime soon?

It's pretty crazy but not going to run it this year until we upgrade the drive train.

[ecstasy_civic]

good call, i can just imagine the carnage.

[Maxt]

So if I may ask, what were you doing different on the first pull at 9 psi to get 60 hp from 3psi more boost on the second dyno pull?

I like it when people post numbers and the turbo size, plotting the power on the map, gives me a good idea of what turbo does what on a given engine vs. theoretical output....If you could post the map for that, that would be great..Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx


In Turbonetics terms it's basically a T3/T60-1 so it's almost as big as Brad's but Brad's is a T4/T62-1.

Is it a true GT (Ballistic) turbo or just a T3 using GT wheels or a GT cartrige?

What are the full specs of the turbo?

[Isonex]

Al, thats unreal grats bro....Hmm....makes me wanna dance :clap: anyways....I diffinatly am gonna piss when I see the numbers on 22 PSI....but like I told you, toughest thing with the car will be from keeping the tires from spinning and trying to get grip from 1-3 :thumbsup:

Chris....

P.s. I hope to have the talon done by friday, if so ill swing by and give you and nick a peep

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Maxt
So if I may ask, what were you doing different on the first pull at 9 psi to get 60 hp from 3psi more boost on the second dyno pull?

I like it when people post numbers and the turbo size, plotting the power on the map, gives me a good idea of what turbo does what on a given engine vs. theoretical output....If you could post the map for that, that would be great..Maxt

It sounds like a kind of hodge podge turbo. Might be hard to find a specific map for it. It would be nice to see however.

Should prove to be a pretty quick car.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


It sounds like a kind of hodge podge turbo. Might be hard to find a specific map for it. It would be nice to see however.

Should prove to be a pretty quick car.

Man your avatar....It's worse than convict's old one!

[XES]

Originally posted by Maxt
So if I may ask, what were you doing different on the first pull at 9 psi to get 60 hp from 3psi more boost on the second dyno pull?

It's a little something called tuning ;) ... perfect the fuel curves, then play with the ignition...then back it off a few to ensure lower cylinder head pressures (but still max power).

I believe it only took me about 3 runs once we reached the 12psi mark :). Helps when you've spent over 250 hrs beating on Hondata (on a variety of cars obviously).

(p.s. the 9psi dyno values shown by Al were only after working the fuel curves - not the ignition curves)

[maxboost_R]

When u do the dyno run on 22psi on c16 race fuel, isn't c16 a leaded gas won't that screw up the wideband 02 sensor if the car has one?

[XES]

Originally posted by maxboost_R
When u do the dyno run on 22psi on c16 race fuel, isn't c16 a leaded gas won't that screw up the wideband 02 sensor if the car has one?

It reduces the life of an 02 by approximately 80% or so. The wideband is only put in for tuning purposes (short term), then after a plug is put in while race gas is in the tank. At the next fill the OEM 02 is put back. Hondata allows the car to run in open loop (without using the 02 sensor) when you are in tuning mode - or want the 02 disabled.

[ls/vtec-crx]

Nice avatar Brad, he looks just like you. Now you have to grow a beard. LOL.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by XES


It's a little something called tuning ;) ... perfect the fuel curves, then play with the ignition...then back it off a few to ensure lower cylinder head pressures (but still max power).

I believe it only took me about 3 runs once we reached the 12psi mark :). Helps when you've spent over 250 hrs beating on Hondata (on a variety of cars obviously).

(p.s. the 9psi dyno values shown by Al were only after working the fuel curves - not the ignition curves)

Do you happen to have a copy of the compressor map?

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Do you happen to have a copy of the compressor map?

Well if he does not we can kinda guess if he gives us the full specs of the turbo. I have a bunch of compressor maps, I just need the specs to see.

[90_Shelby]

Good Numbers!!


Not to stir up shit, but........
If a shop finds a good setup (Turbo that works good) Shouldn't they keep that secret for paying customers.....:thumbsup:

Allan obviously knows what he's doing when picking parts, maybe you guys should just get him to spec a turbo out for you.:dunno:

I'm sure he'd be happy to order one up for you.....

[legendboy]

Originally posted by 90_Shelby
Good Numbers!!


Not to stir up shit, but........
If a shop finds a good setup (Turbo that works good) Shouldn't they keep that secret for paying customers.....:thumbsup:

Allan obviously knows what he's doing when picking parts, maybe you guys should just get him to spec a turbo out for you.:dunno:

I'm sure he'd be happy to order one up for you.....

I personaly don't think there are many real secrets. Sleeved block, pistons, rods, tuning + lots of boost = lots of hp. Anyone can get there, your wallet is the limiting factor.


Killer number btw! congrats to Speed Tech!!!!!!

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 90_Shelby
Good Numbers!!


Not to stir up shit, but........
If a shop finds a good setup (Turbo that works good) Shouldn't they keep that secret for paying customers.....:thumbsup:

Allan obviously knows what he's doing when picking parts, maybe you guys should just get him to spec a turbo out for you.:dunno:

I'm sure he'd be happy to order one up for you.....

I agree to a point. There are a few people in town who have car's that are built out of the city and have hundreds of thousands of dollars of custom engineering behind them. I understand those people wanting to keep information to themselves. I don't know alot about this car in particular, and I don't want to take anything away from it whatsoever, but it seems to be the usual bolt on turbo type build, that as legendboy mentioned is capable by anybody with the $$$. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. I also understand it's up to the owner to reveal any info regarding the car, and I understand if there is some reluctance to give out info.

So now that Speedtech had this car making this power is there anybody else in town ie)Impressions, Autozeal etc that has a car in the works or exsisting that can challenge it?

[90_Shelby]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


So now that Speedtech had this car making this power is there anybody else in town ie)Impressions, Autozeal etc that has a car in the works or exsisting that can challenge it?








:D :D.....................;)

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 90_Shelby









:D :D.....................;)

Nothing wrong with a little friendly rivalry;)

[GQNammer]

So I just wanna make sure of this, this all started from a GSR engine?

BTW, GJ speedtech!

[Hollywood]

Secrets?

I'm not interested in the turbo specs for a honda, as I will never own a honda to tune so I could care less. I just want to know the specs as I'm curious to see if it will be effecient at 28 PSI, that and there a lot of fake GT turbos rolling around.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Hollywood
Secrets?

I'm curious to see if it will be effecient at 28 PSI, that and there a lot of fake GT turbos rolling around.

Exactly

[Maxt]

Originally posted by 90_Shelby
Good Numbers!!


Not to stir up shit, but........
If a shop finds a good setup (Turbo that works good) Shouldn't they keep that secret for paying customers.....:thumbsup:

Allan obviously knows what he's doing when picking parts, maybe you guys should just get him to spec a turbo out for you.:dunno:

I'm sure he'd be happy to order one up for you.....
If a honda guy spec'd a turbo for us, we could probably spool it with one rotor...:).....When honda guys spec turbos for rotaries, you get whats called a greddy kit..haha....Maxt

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by GQNammer
So I just wanna make sure of this, this all started from a GSR engine?

BTW, GJ speedtech!

Yes this started all with a GSR Motor. It's only been bored 0.020 over which is an 81.5mm instead of the stock 81mm.

[rage2]

I've been silently keeping up with this thread... pretty amazing numbers, on pump gas too. Awesome work guys... now let's see those C16 numbers :).

[Hollywood]

I dont have hate or honda descrimination. The numbers are nice and the car looks good too. But I dont understand why its a big deal or a secret to post specs of the turbo?......If you dont know what the specs are just say so?:dunno: Just ignoring us just looks like there is something to hide that's all..:thumbsdow

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Hollywood
I dont have hate or honda descrimination. The numbers are nice and the car looks good too. But I dont understand why its a big deal or a secret to post specs of the turbo?......If you dont know what the specs are just say so?:dunno: Just ignoring us just looks like there is something to hide that's all..:thumbsdow

Agreed. There seems to be some reluctance to reveal turbo info, or to even comment about it one way or another, seems kind of strange. Was there a scan of the dyno pulls in question?

[ls/vtec-crx]

Wow simmer down, I'm not trying to hide anything I was just trying to find the info on the turbo we are using. I don't know much on turbo specs. When I buy turbos, I have a guy in the US that I contact and give him all the specs of our current motor like:
compression
size of motor
kind of motor
HP goals
and turbo efficiency

And my contact basically tells me use this size turbo and it will be good to a certain amount of boost and hp rating. But here is what i found on the turbo we are using.



GT Series Ball Bearing Turbo
- .63, .82, or 1.06 nonn wastegated turbine housing with T3 style inlet. 84 trim turbine wheel
- 56 Trim GT Comopressor Wheel, .60 A/R cover with 4" inlet

Support Approx. 300-500 HP on 2-3L Engines

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx
Wow simmer down, I'm not trying to hide anything I was just trying to find the info on the turbo we are using. I don't know much on turbo specs. When I buy turbos, I have a guy in the US that I contact and give him all the specs of our current motor like:
compression
size of motor
kind of motor
HP goals
and turbo efficiency

And my contact basically tells me use this size turbo and will good to a certain amount of boost and hp rating. But here is what i found on the turbo we are using.



GT Series Ball Bearing Turbo
- .63, .82, or 1.06 nonn wastegated turbine housing with T3 style inlet. 84 trim turbine wheel
- 56 Trim GT Comopressor Wheel, .60 A/R cover with 4" inlet

Support Approx. 300-500 HP on 2-3L Engines

Ah cool, thanks :D

Hollywood can you find the maps for those options?

[shadowz]

Holy some people need to take it easy, and no there was no scan of the dyno pulls we dont have a scanner at the shop, but if you want to stop by and take a look at the dyno charts feel free. Man some of you make the biggest deal out of the littlest things. Chill the fuck out

[^SkylinE^]

Good call! :thumbsup:

[syeve]

its a turbo honda!!! There MUST be something fishy about it!!!!:rolleyes:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by shadowz
Holy some people need to take it easy, and no there was no scan of the dyno pulls we dont have a scanner at the shop, but if you want to stop by and take a look at the dyno charts feel free. Man some of you make the biggest deal out of the littlest things. Chill the fuck out

Nobody made a big deal about anything. Now I can only speak for myself but....

I have never delt with a piston motor, only rotary, I know how to read a comp map in regards to a rotary motor but not a piston, esspecially a 4 cyl like a honda. I was interested in looking at the comp map for that turbo, and seeing the hp and tq curves on the dyno pull. I probably wont just deal with rotary the rest of my life, I don't mind gaining any and all piston motor info I can that's all.

[shadowz]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Nobody made a big deal about anything. Now I can only speak for myself but....

I have never delt with a piston motor, only rotary, I know how to read a comp map in regards to a rotary motor but not a piston, esspecially a 4 cyl like a honda. I was interested in looking at the comp map for that turbo, and seeing the hp and tq curves on the dyno pull. I probably wont just deal with rotary the rest of my life, I don't mind gaining any and all piston motor info I can that's all.

I was not speaking about you in the previous post, but if you want to come by and take a look at the charts stop by Id be glad to chat with you, we're here everyday but sunday got them sitting at the desk:thumbsup:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by shadowz


I was not speaking about you in the previous post, but if you want to come by and take a look at the charts stop by Id be glad to chat with you, we're here everyday but sunday got them sitting at the desk:thumbsup:

Cool, if I need to take a break from trying to get my own car running Saturday, I'll stop by.

Any reason you used a Dynojet and not a Mustang? I have yet to see a run on a dynojet, been part of a couple tuning sessions on a Mustang though

[shadowz]

Reason for Dynojet was it was readily available, the Dynomotive facility was not available to us at the time

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Ah cool, thanks :D

Hollywood can you find the maps for those options?

I'll check this weekend.

I'm not a hater and doughting power n such, note I never asked for dyno graphs at all in this thread.

Just seemed I was being ignored as I asked several times about the turbo but never got one reply, so I was trying to figure out why the question was getting ignored that's all, as it was a valid question in a "car forum". If you dont want to deal with inquiring people in forums, dont post at all then.:dunno:

[shadowz]

Totally understand but I dont think Allan saw that at all he was just posting results and such. I think it would be ingorant if we all posted and never replied to any questions, next time pop him a PM im sure he'll get back to you a lot faster

[Maxt]

Hey Hollywood, got a map for that one?.....
Max

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx

GT Series Ball Bearing Turbo
- .63, .82, or 1.06 nonn wastegated turbine housing with T3 style inlet. 84 trim turbine wheel
- 56 Trim GT Comopressor Wheel, .60 A/R cover with 4" inlet




Originally posted by Maxt
Hey Hollywood, got a map for that one?.....
Max


I need some more specs, ie: which exhaust trim he has out of the 3 listed 63, 82, 106, and I need wheel diameters so far it is not a full GT its a GT cartrige. Nothing wrong with that just means that it's customized.

All GT30's have 70 a/r compressors, it's cheaper for a turbo depot to buy a cartrige and build it up them selves. So they put a 60 trim T3 compressor housing probly for faster spool up and the 60 housing is also more readily available and cheaper.

Oh.... got to go out. I have a comp map will have to post it on saturday. It's a nice turbo, 28 PSI may be possible. The 70 a/r is at 78% max eficiency between 22-42lbs/min corrected airflow @1.5-2.8 pressure ratio.

[Redlyne_mr2]

I enjoy reading about what kind of specs everyone is using and the hp people are putting down..saves me from guestimating when the time comes..BTW Hollywood your a/r is 70 on a 2.0L and you autocross your car..you dont find that it gives you too much lag?

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I enjoy reading about what kind of specs everyone is using and the hp people are putting down..saves me from guestimating when the time comes..BTW Hollywood your a/r is 70 on a 2.0L and you autocross your car..you dont find that it gives you too much lag?

No I dont have a GT, I was just saying the full GT30 turbo has a 70 A/R, and without that, it's a cartrige. But remember I told you before the ultimate 2L turbo was a T3/T4 50 trim, stage 3 exhaust wheel, 360 thrust bearings, and 4 bolt exhaust side So you can have your strait 3" down pipe. I cant afford it myself though, cause I would need a new mani and ext. wastegate too.

I have a T3/T28, standard bearing, it's a small bolt on turbo, it was designed for nissan's race rally car Pulsar GTi-R SR20DET by Garrett.

TURBINE: T28
.86 A/R Housing
79 Trim Wheel
COMPRESSOR: T3
.60 A/R Housing
60 Trim Wheel

[^SkylinE^]

Does somebody have a website or anything that i can read so that i can learn what all the trims and a/r's mean ? I what to know how to figure out efficiency and all that. Pretty much i want to learn more about the technical side. I know how they work and all but im not sure what all these little specs mean?

[redline]

Originally posted by ^SkylinE^
Does somebody have a website or anything that i can read so that i can learn what all the trims and a/r's mean ? I what to know how to figure out efficiency and all that. Pretty much i want to learn more about the technical side. I know how they work and all but im not sure what all these little specs mean?

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

I had a site that had a ton of comressor maps etc but i can not find it now :banghead:

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by Hollywood


I need some more specs, ie: which exhaust trim he has out of the 3 listed 63, 82, 106, and I need wheel diameters so far it is not a full GT its a GT cartrige. Nothing wrong with that just means that it's customized.

All GT30's have 70 a/r compressors, it's cheaper for a turbo depot to buy a cartrige and build it up them selves. So they put a 60 trim T3 compressor housing probly for faster spool up and the 60 housing is also more readily available and cheaper.

Oh.... got to go out. I have a comp map will have to post it on saturday. It's a nice turbo, 28 PSI may be possible. The 70 a/r is at 78% max eficiency between 22-42lbs/min corrected airflow @1.5-2.8 pressure ratio.

I don't know if this helps but my turbo supplier said that his trim was a 70-73.

[^SkylinE^]

Thanks Redline!

[Maxt]

As long as we have the compressor specs we can plot the turbo on the map, Gt turbos are the only ones so far with turbine maps now available, so I wouldn't sweat over plotting the hot end of the turbo, I have never personally bothered plotting turbines, thats just something you have to "know" when you go buying turbo's....
The compressor housing will a minimal effect of spool, the compressor and turbine wheel size along with the turbine housing a/r are the factors that affect spool, the reasoning to go with the small front cover, is probably trying to boost compressor efficiency with a given pressure range, from what I am seeing on the net, this is the cookie cutter turbo for the honda boys, while we can say it will make this much Hp betwen point a and point b, the chances of a gt30 ever making 500 hp is slim to none, given the heat it will make at those pressure ratios and flow rates, you'd have to be relying on artificially cold intake temps to make that kinda power with that compressor... from 400 hp up I would be looking at the gt 37 or gt40 to get that power on the street..Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
... from 400 hp up I would be looking at the gt 37 or gt40 to get that power on the street..Maxt

Nah, SR's can can make 400 hp on a GT25 T04S/T25 86 A/R which is smaller than the GT30, very similair to the HKS GT2835R, which also can do 400whp.

If he had the T04S 70 A/R compressor which is the compressor side of a full GT30 then 400 hp would be no problem. Even so, the turbo they have looks like its capable of 400hp or close, especially if its the 82 A/R turbine, but then the 60/82 might be a wierd mismatch rather than the more balanced 60/63.

No matter what it's a good street turbo for sure, and it's better than mine.;)

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Hollywood




No matter what it's a good street turbo for sure, and it's better than mine.;)

Agreed

It's no drag turbo, although I expect the car will run good times, but it does make the car a very potent street car.

[Hollywood]

Here is the map of the GT30 70A/R T04S.



http://members.shaw.ca/eurotrash/gt30map.jpg

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Hollywood


Nah, SR's can can make 400 hp on a GT25 T04S/T25 86 A/R which is smaller than the GT30, very similair to the HKS GT2835R, which also can do 400whp.

If he had the T04S 70 A/R compressor which is the compressor side of a full GT30 then 400 hp would be no problem. Even so, the turbo they have looks like its capable of 400hp or close, especially if its the 82 A/R turbine, but then the 60/82 might be a wierd mismatch rather than the more balanced 60/63.

No matter what it's a good street turbo for sure, and it's better than mine.;)
Yeah, but in real life, you'd need a intercooler the size of a church to ever make that kinda power out of such a weeny turbo on the street...
Yeah if it had the .70, it would be a really wicked turbo, I would shift that scale down by about 5 lbs/min with the .60 cover, the remember in terms of absolute pressure in Calgary, you almost need to add 2.5 psi to the boost for altitude correction when calculating the discharge temps and new efficency..maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt

Yeah, but in real life, you'd need a intercooler the size of a church to ever make that kinda power out of such a weeny turbo on the street...


Max, max, max....I think the build up of un-burnt fuel from your exhaust is clouding your mind of the power of piston engines!:D

The HKS 2835R put down over 400 hp on an integra and 395 on an mr2. They were both in SCC a few years ago.

Here is a post. FYI in europe a silvia is a 200sx. Dyno graph does not work anymore since the post is a few years old...but you get the idea. 416whp.

LINK (http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67415309&Forum=UBB9&Words=2835&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=2577&Old=allposts&Main=67415273&Search=true#Post67415309)

[tommy1223]

damn that car is NICE, it's got SHOW and GO!!

PROPS TO U MAN!

[Maxt]

I know you can make big power given enough boost and enough intercooling with just about any turbo, drive that turbo on the street, get the i/c nice and warm, and watch rwhp drop like a rock..
Apply density correction to the maps..
The key is, is to get the car to run in the sweet spot of the turbo on the street, with useable power, now with your typical 4 cylinder, they have a hard time spooling a turbo large enough and efficient enough to flow enough air at reasonalbe discharge temps, to make say 400 rwhp on a 80 deg day. So the boost starts going up to get the power, and the efficiency starts to fall off, so on goes the magical i/c cooling and voila, instant big throbbing blue veiner horspower numbers to post on the 'net....
To make that car turn hp numbers like that everyday on the street you would need 40 lb/s per minuts smack dab in the middle of the chart at 1.6 bar, not off hard right.. My car will use all the air a t04e will spit on a hot day,due to the density loss, the compressor on paper will flow enough air for 400 rwhp, but not at everyday driving temps, on warmer days, my boost falls off, the compressor is way out of its range..
I was in a couple of shops that specialize in FCon and power fc tuning this last week, there were more dynocharts posted in those shops than there are Sr20's in Alberta, I don't recall seeing one over 325 rwhp even on a highly modified car... I recall a skyline in the 475 rwhp range at 1.8 bar or so, but thats with TWO hks Gt2835r's....There is more math behind a compressor map than simply plotting 2 points..
I want 600 rwhp next year, and to do that I could push a t-66 to the limit on paper and do it, probably with the help of an ice chest intercooler, but I want it on the street, and the easiest way to that without chasing density recovery via magical dyno run intercooling, is get a turbo that flows 65 lb/s per minute right in its sweet area, this will take load off the intercooler and will probably deliver the goods.
I gotta get my car and test it with the small turbo sometime before years end as well...Maybe Toma will let me back on if I promise not to stain his wall with engine parts again...:)..Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
I know you can make big power given enough boost and enough intercooling with just about any turbo, drive that turbo on the street, get the i/c nice and warm, and watch rwhp drop like a rock..
Apply density correction to the maps..
The key is, is to get the car to run in the sweet spot of the turbo on the street, with useable power, now with your typical 4 cylinder, they have a hard time spooling a turbo large enough and efficient enough to flow enough air at reasonalbe discharge temps, to make say 400 rwhp on a 80 deg day. So the boost starts going up to get the power, and the efficiency starts to fall off, so on goes the magical i/c cooling and voila, instant big throbbing blue veiner horspower numbers to post on the 'net....
To make that car turn hp numbers like that everyday on the street you would need 40 lb/s per minuts smack dab in the middle of the chart at 1.6 bar, not off hard right.. My car will use all the air a t04e will spit on a hot day,due to the density loss, the compressor on paper will flow enough air for 400 rwhp, but not at everyday driving temps, on warmer days, my boost falls off, the compressor is way out of its range..
I was in a couple of shops that specialize in FCon and power fc tuning this last week, there were more dynocharts posted in those shops than there are Sr20's in Alberta, I don't recall seeing one over 325 rwhp even on a highly modified car... I recall a skyline in the 475 rwhp range at 1.8 bar or so, but thats with TWO hks Gt2835r's....There is more math behind a compressor map than simply plotting 2 points..
I want 600 rwhp next year, and to do that I could push a t-66 to the limit on paper and do it, probably with the help of an ice chest intercooler, but I want it on the street, and the easiest way to that without chasing density recovery via magical dyno run intercooling, is get a turbo that flows 65 lb/s per minute right in its sweet area, this will take load off the intercooler and will probably deliver the goods.
I gotta get my car and test it with the small turbo sometime before years end as well...Maybe Toma will let me back on if I promise not to stain his wall with engine parts again...:)..Maxt

Ya I agree with that. But you got to remember the standards are the dyno, not the street power on an 80 degree day. Thus if you are to compare with someone you will be comparing the dyno numbers.

[Maxt]

But what good is a 400 hp dyno queen on the street? I think taking a car right off the street and dynoing is a far better judge of how things are working, than aritificially manipulating dyno numbers for braggin rights...
Thats 800 hp supras get there assess handed to them by 400 hp street cars on the race track....Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
But what good is a 400 hp dyno queen on the street? I think taking a car right off the street and dynoing is a far better judge of how things are working, than aritificially manipulating dyno numbers for braggin rights...
Thats 800 hp supras get there assess handed to them by 400 hp street cars on the race track....Maxt

Ya but there are 2 standards, dyno and 1/4 mile. People gennerally follow both. As one measures power and the other measures driving skill, power to wieght, and the ability to put power to the ground. So ya those dyno queens just look bad when they say they have 800hp then get beat by a 400hp honda.....then the excuses come out!:burnout:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Hollywood


Ya I agree with that. But you got to remember the standards are the dyno, not the street power on an 80 degree day. Thus if you are to compare with someone you will be comparing the dyno numbers.

That's Max for ya.

He cares very little about things that go on in showrooms, and on the dyno. To him it's all about the "real" world on the street.

[Maxt]

The to4e is a 57/60 trim, its kinda a cross of both, its a ford OEM turbo and not a standard garret trim, the wheel is that of a 57, but its paired with the larger front cover of the 60 and has the 4" inlet.
Actually increasing the boost when its cool it isn't safer at all, with a turbo car, the air is denser, and the cooler air will show up any parts of your fuel system that aren't up to the task, even at 10 psi , I stop driving my car when its cold, because, I start seeing 100% duty cycles on the injectors, trying to maintain 11:1 ratios under boost..
When its 30+ outside I only use approximatly 78% injector duty cycle at even 15 psi off boost because the air is hotter, in turn less dense, which means there is effectivley less o2 per cubic foot of air moved..
I guess the big difference is on the street, you can't pull over and plug in a fan when you want to generate a big number for fun, on the street you want to be able to make the power all the time, and in order to do that, thats when you need the exact right turbo, intercooler and fuel setup, its easy to fudge things on the dyno, manafactures do it all the time to sell us the shit, very few parts these days tell you by how much it will drop your quarter, but they like the percentage power increase method, which they always say is "dyno proven"..yuk yuk yuk..
I will agree that torque is important, torque is the work, hp is how fast its done though, the area under the curve though as they say is always the most important, and thats what is the fall down of alot high hp machines, the power on the chart looks like a heartbeat spike instead of a nice uphill gradual climb..
I like how things go on the street when it comes to performance, after all we don't drive our cars on dyno's, at least I don't 99% of the time..
Yeah I have a chart, this one is from a sickly 13b 3mm stock port motor that came with my TII, although it was a rebuilt motor, it never had great compression, and had a unrythmic miss due to poor sealing of the internals.. The motor let go on the second dyno pull, the seal edge of the rotor folded over and spit the apex seal out...
I now have a series 5 streetport motor that pulls alot harder than the dyno casualty motor , however now the t04e is to small to keep this motor fed with air, I drop boost once I get over 15 psi..
This run they made me shut off at 6600 rpm, the car pulls hard to 8000+, so hp is probably a little more than whats there, mustang dyno at about 12-14 psi of boost ..

[Dr. Lightspeed]

Nice run ALLAN premium engineering. Really scares you when something goes wrong on a Dyno. Thought we lost a cylinder last week when dialing in a Propane enriched Nitrous system. Was quite relieved when we found a bad plug. Glad nothing serious happened and you came out shining.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
This run they made me shut off at 6600 rpm, the car pulls hard to 8000+, so hp is probably a little more than whats there, mustang dyno at about 12-14 psi of boost ..

My torque was almost the same as yours on the mustang dyno with my wee little turbo compared to yours, 282whp, 270wtq, I also stopped short of the full 7400rpm. But I'll never want to catch up to your new motor power levels...I can't afford it dammit!:banghead:

[Maxt]

The most boost I have ever run was 19psi and only with 94 octane fuel loaded with xylene to suppress detonation, I can't hold that boost to redline, the turbo is simply out of breath at that point and the intake temps start creeping..
The most I run with 92 oct is about 12 psi on most days on the street, when I can load up on 94 I run 16 psi, and thats enough power for most driving situations on the streets..
I am running 2-55lb/hrs in the primary , and 2-160lb/hrs in the secondary, and no thats not a typo, a total of 430 lb/hrs worth of injector, I could use a little more, next go round will be with 4x 160lb/hrs for 640 total...That should feed it..:nut:
Hollywood: Your torque should be better than mine considering your engine is more biased towards torque production than my rotary, however, look at the hp, I hold that torque for a very long time compared to most 4 bangers, and even some sixes, thats called area under the curve, and thats what makes a fast car fast, not always shear numbers...However I hope to make the same curve with just a higher climb next time around..I should drag my car before the end of the year, but my 1/4 mile driving skills are not that great anymore...
There is a certain supra in town that likes to flaunt a dyno chart that looks like a heart beat, and no its not Mau, but you would need a 12 speed F1 automatic to make that car fast with a power curve like that.. Its fine and dandy to make 550hp and 500 /ft/lbs or so , but when the car only does it for 2000 rpm, that doesn't make driving it that fun, big peaky power is like driving a kenworth with a 14 litre cummins, tons of power, but still slow...Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
The most boost I have ever run was 19psi and only with 94 octane fuel loaded with xylene to suppress detonation, I can't hold that boost to redline, the turbo is simply out of breath at that point and the intake temps start creeping..
The most I run with 92 oct is about 12 psi on most days on the street, when I can load up on 94 I run 16 psi, and thats enough power for most driving situations on the streets..
I am running 2-55lb/hrs in the primary , and 2-160lb/hrs in the secondary, and no thats not a typo, a total of 430 lb/hrs worth of injector, I could use a little more, next go round will be with 4x 160lb/hrs for 640 total...That should feed it..:nut:
Hollywood: Your torque should be better than mine considering your engine is more biased towards torque production than my rotary, however, look at the hp, I hold that torque for a very long time compared to most 4 bangers, and even some sixes, thats called area under the curve, and thats what makes a fast car fast, not always shear numbers...However I hope to make the same curve with just a higher climb next time around..I should drag my car before the end of the year, but my 1/4 mile driving skills are not that great anymore...
There is a certain supra in town that likes to flaunt a dyno chart that looks like a heart beat, and no its not Mau, but you would need a 12 speed F1 automatic to make that car fast with a power curve like that.. Its fine and dandy to make 550hp and 500 /ft/lbs or so , but when the car only does it for 2000 rpm, that doesn't make driving it that fun, big peaky power is like driving a kenworth with a 14 litre cummins, tons of power, but still slow...Maxt

Ya I'm not worried about duty cycle either, 4x72lb injectors are overkill for my setup. Ya your torque is good, but that was crappy engine to begin with though, who built it?

I want to ask you something about the streetports and bridgeport techniques. Would you make more peak and higher RPM range hp, and less torque similair to say a race intake manifold on a piston engine where you have to sacrifice some low tq/hp end for high end hp? Not saying you would not make more torque overall. You know what I'm saying?

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by Dr. Lightspeed
Nice run ALLAN premium engineering. Really scares you when something goes wrong on a Dyno. Thought we lost a cylinder last week when dialing in a Propane enriched Nitrous system. Was quite relieved when we found a bad plug. Glad nothing serious happened and you came out shining.

Good to here it was only a plug. How's the shop going?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Hollywood
Ya your torque is good, but that was crappy engine to begin with though, who built it?



I'll give you one guess.....................

Ok Rx-7 Specialties built the motor. The 3mm seals were milled completely wrong, and in a couple cases the groove was not even straight. Not to mention the motor was missing some important seals and springs all together. It was supposed to be a streetported motor, but other than a quick grind on the exhuast ports everything was stock. It was just a reallly bad motor, never had good compression, never ran right.

This new motor is MUCH stronger, we have no dyno evidence yet but seat of the pant's feel is pretty convincing. Plus because a proper streetport was done on this motor it spools that big To4e like stock.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I'll give you one guess.....................

Ok Rx-7 Specialties built the motor. The 3mm seals were milled completely wrong, and in a couple cases the groove was not even straight. Not to mention the motor was missing some important seals and springs all together. It was supposed to be a streetported motor, but other than a quick grind on the exhuast ports everything was stock. It was just a reallly bad motor, never had good compression, never ran right.



Ya I knew who it was....I was just causing trouble. I had a bad specialties expierience. If I only knew Max was able to fix RX-7's back in the day when I almost bought a nice touring edition.......

[Maxt]

Hollywood, the streetport and the bridge does kill bottom end torque, but because it spools a turbo so much faster, you regain your losses 2 fold since you hit boost earlier, also the porting breathes to a higher rpm, good porting on trubo motor will actually elongate the power band, as long as the turbo is a good match for the port.With this motor compared to how it was before streetporting, it needs more gas when you let the clutch out, and is a bit jerky off boost, however tip the throttle in at all , and boost is there, I spool about 800-1000 rpm faster than i did before, I use to be able to drive around completly off boost, which was great for gas mileage, however I always seem to even hit 3-5 psi even when totally granny driving, you just feel the torque start to pour out of the motor, so you tend to pull out of the throttle much more...
So far with the bridgeports that I have seen now in person, and on dynosheets, they spool turbo's that big block chevs could only dream of spooling...The big thing about streetability with the large ports, is that in the days of carbureation, the big ports with lots of reversion totally killed the vaccuum signal for the carbs, and intake velocity was also comprimised, so fuel puddling was a problem, and the only carbs that would run decently on those motors, also had no choke mechanism, something any rotary with a carb needs to start when cold..But with efi, we can make large port engines idle better than most carbed stock rotaries, this motor in my car now, is a bit chunky, but has pretty good quality to it, considering the primaries are now a little bigger than stock secondaries use to be, streetport idles use to be 1100-1300 rpm with carbs, efi lets us maintiain 850 rpm idles, due to its far more exacting fuel distribution and dry flow runners..Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
Hollywood, the streetport and the bridge does kill bottom end torque, but because it spools a turbo so much faster, you regain your losses 2 fold since you hit boost earlier, also the porting breathes to a higher rpm, good porting on trubo motor will actually elongate the power band, as long as the turbo is a good match for the port.With this motor compared to how it was before streetporting, it needs more gas when you let the clutch out, and is a bit jerky off boost, however tip the throttle in at all , and boost is there, I spool about 800-1000 rpm faster than i did before, I use to be able to drive around completly off boost, which was great for gas mileage, however I always seem to even hit 3-5 psi even when totally granny driving, you just feel the torque start to pour out of the motor, so you tend to pull out of the throttle much more...
So far with the bridgeports that I have seen now in person, and on dynosheets, they spool turbo's that big block chevs could only dream of spooling...The big thing about streetability with the large ports, is that in the days of carbureation, the big ports with lots of reversion totally killed the vaccuum signal for the carbs, and intake velocity was also comprimised, so fuel puddling was a problem, and the only carbs that would run decently on those motors, also had no choke mechanism, something any rotary with a carb needs to start when cold..But with efi, we can make large port engines idle better than most carbed stock rotaries, this motor in my car now, is a bit chunky, but has pretty good quality to it, considering the primaries are now a little bigger than stock secondaries use to be, streetport idles use to be 1100-1300 rpm with carbs, efi lets us maintiain 850 rpm idles, due to its far more exacting fuel distribution and dry flow runners..Maxt

Cool. That's good info. It's basically sounds like big cams. ported head, 3 angle valve job, race intake manifold setup for piston engines,......minus the nice idle. Whats the price of a bridgeport?

[Maxt]

some shops charge around 500 for a bridgeport, and somewhere around 300-400 for a streetport..
Its just die grinder work, so its mostly just time that gets charge, say 50 bucks for the materials and then whatever hours it takes, I can bridgeport a motor in about 3-4 hours, I can streetport a motor in about 2 hours including exhaust, one day when I get around to it, I will drop some ported Irons off at Karls for display purposes..Maxt

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
some shops charge around 500 for a bridgeport, and somewhere around 300-400 for a streetport..
Its just die grinder work, so its mostly just time that gets charge, say 50 bucks for the materials and then whatever hours it takes, I can bridgeport a motor in about 3-4 hours, I can streetport a motor in about 2 hours including exhaust, one day when I get around to it, I will drop some ported Irons off at Karls for display purposes..Maxt

Woh! That's it for price? That's pretty good. If I did the equivilent on an SR here would be the costs.

Port head and 3 angle valve job 500.00+
JWT/HKS/toda etc.. Cams 850.00-1000.00
Greddy race Intake 850.00

Man I'm getting sick of your bargins with your rotary!;)