Immigrants = crime

[Xtrema]

http://calsun.canoe.ca/BreakingNews/2008/09/25/6878101.html

Discuss

[Redlyne_mr2]

what a redneck comment.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Don't forget they also = questionable body odour management skills.

;)

[spikerS]

sad thing about sterotypes, true or not.

[top_speed]

yea cuz us afghanis just dont give a fuck, u noe

[Eleanor]

Wow, I'm surprised to see it wasn't Rob Anders :rofl:

But just to open Pandora's box, look up a list of gang-related murder victims in Calgary. There is a fairly common trait.

I know you can't generalize and I don't agree with his comments at all, however there does seem to be an uneven demographical representation in the gang activity in Calgary anyway.

And don't give me the racist cops BS :rofl:

[PINOY-X]

DAMN IMMIGRANTS!!

[snoop101]

This is not just an issue in Calgary. I knew a couple of people that were immigrants and the courts made them leave Toronto. One came out to a smaller town where I lived and stayed with his mom. Great guy, worked as a cook, but he still had issues and got in trouble again and was was told that he maybe deported.

I thinks its just the fact that they come from countries where enforcement isnt a big deal and they have this "im not afraid of anything" attitude.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Wow... I can't believe a politician would actually say that to the media haha.

[3g4u]

I see this as just another lame liberal tactic that has been blown out of proprotion. Everybody is so focused on being "politically correct" that they are blind to what may actually help Canada in reducing crime.

[Canmorite]

I want to see the stats behind his claim. Is there anywhere that tracks crimes and race/immigrant status of each incident? I doubt it...

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Canmorite
I want to see the stats behind his claim. Is there anywhere that tracks crimes and race/immigrant status of each incident? I doubt it...

Thing about this though is that if a group of people tracked this and came out with it publicly they would be looked down upon and threatened.

[3g4u]

Originally posted by Canmorite
I want to see the stats behind his claim. Is there anywhere that tracks crimes and race/immigrant status of each incident? I doubt it...


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/05/26/police-race050526.html

Cant seem to find the outcome, although i do believe i read somewhere that Canada banned statistics of this sort. I may be totally wrong.:dunno:

[Canmorite]

Seems like if someone does research and statistical analysis while providing results, they're creating something of value.

Unless of course your results are based on race and could be viewed negatively. Then you're just raciest. :thumbsdow

[snoop101]

Wouldent it be hard to track because if someone doesent want to give the info they dont need to? So if hand full of people dont disclose the info it can offset the research.

The other thing is that if the research does point to "immigrants" will anything happen? Not all countries have the criminal tracking that we have here in north america.

[CUG]

If you aren't familiar with the laws in a country, I can see there being difficulty interpreting what's acceptable and not acceptable.

I used to believe that it was a social integration issue until I saw how many programs are out there to help get newcomers to Canada up and running... lots of help out there.

I think we should also look at the population of prisons. If I'm not mistaken, there are bazillion Natives occupying the Canadian prisons... they aren't immigrants...



Another question, what if the statistics DO in fact back up "Immigrants = Crime"? I don't know if they do or don't, but I've noticed that we try to hide things in this country so that feelings don't get hurt. That needs to stop... if decisions are being made that don't include facts and hard stats... what fucking good are they?

[finboy]

it's calgary, how is anyone surprised by this?

[TKRIS]

Political correctness is just tyranny with manners. - Charlton Heston

Even if you had such a study, one wouldn't dare bring it up.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by TKRIS
Political correctness is just tyranny with manners. - Charlton Heston

Even if you had such a study, one wouldn't dare bring it up.

Exactly. To do this research you need funding. So imagine the reputation of the company providing the funding or government in that matter.

[calgarys_finest]

Originally posted by CUG


I think we should also look at the population of prisons. If I'm not mistaken, there are bazillion Natives occupying the Canadian prisons... they aren't immigrants...




I sold some stuff to a high up prision offical a few days ago and asked if it was true that 50% of all inmates are natives and he said its way higher that than around 60-65%. Not official or anything but interesting to hear it from someone in the biz.

[CUG]

Originally posted by calgarys_finest


I sold some stuff to a high up prision offical a few days ago and asked if it was true that 50% of all inmates are natives and he said its way higher that than around 60-65%. Not official or anything but interesting to hear it from someone in the biz. That's insane. I know a girl who's a guard at a prison in Winnipeg... she said that easily out of 100 inmates, 90 or 95 are Native. The rest are their White friends :rofl:

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by calgarys_finest


I sold some stuff to a high up prision offical a few days ago and asked if it was true that 50% of all inmates are natives and he said its way higher that than around 60-65%. Not official or anything but interesting to hear it from someone in the biz.

And it's a lot higher than that in Saskatchewan and Manitoba (where my friends have served most of their time), from what I've been told.


EDIT: I, of course, wouldn't have any first hand experience because, as a white guy, I couldn't get arrested if I drove my turbo Prelude 160km/h while mainlining heroin and running down California condors...

[snoop101]

Originally posted by calgarys_finest


I sold some stuff to a high up prision offical a few days ago

Reeeaaaally.........

[r3cc0s]

I'm of Asian decent and in alot of cases, its fucking true

I'm 1st gen and have been instilled values of our current socialist society

However if you look over in areas of which are populated of migrated immigrants, you quickly see the way of which their 3rd world heritage have conditioned these people.

It's not just Africans, Orients, Asians, Arabs... Not to sound further racist, but a number of the refugees from former Yugoslavia are often the same.


The thing that should be made clear is that, it's not about the color of the Skin, but the attitude underneath

Native Americans in Canada... well thats all together another conversation

[Dj_Stylz]

http://homepage.mac.com/kparlato/.Pictures/Fark/Cliches/waisis.gif

[snoop101]

Originally posted by r3cc0s
I'm of Asian decent and in alot of cases, its fucking true

I'm 1st gen and have been instilled values of our current socialist society

However if you look over in areas of which are populated of migrated immigrants, you quickly see the way of which their 3rd world heritage have conditioned these people.

It's not just Africans, Orients, Asians, Arabs... Not to sound further racist, but a number of the refugees from former Yugoslavia are often the same.


The thing that should be made clear is that, it's not about the color of the Skin, but the attitude underneath

Native Americans in Canada... well thats all together another conversation

Exactly. Like I said in other countries where they come from theres usually corruption in the law enforcement or they come from an area where theres really no enforcement.

The reason Sask. and Man. are more populated with natives and not immigrants is that theres less of a population of immigrants and wide population of natives.

[A790]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Seems like if someone does research and statistical analysis while providing results, they're creating something of value.

Unless of course your results are based on race and could be viewed negatively. Then you're just raciest. :thumbsdow
You have a penchant for hitting nails on their heads. ;)

[SJW]

Good for him. The gov't is too politically correct. From what I see lately he is mostly true.

Just check the names on most violent crimes lately.

I have nothing against immigrants it just if I was to commit these crimes in their country i'd be tortured. Why do they bring it here?

Oh right cuz the gov't lets them out with minimal sentences..

[hampstor]

damn immgrants! Always causing problems by opening businesses, and making money.

As a former refugee, I came and stolen your job too. :D

[blownz]

Originally posted by calgarys_finest

I sold some stuff to a high up prision offical a few days ago and asked if it was true that 50% of all inmates are natives and he said its way higher that than around 60-65%. Not official or anything but interesting to hear it from someone in the biz.


Originally posted by CUG
That's insane. I know a girl who's a guard at a prison in Winnipeg... she said that easily out of 100 inmates, 90 or 95 are Native. The rest are their White friends :rofl:

Damn those native immigrants!!!! lol

[CUG]

Originally posted by hampstor
.

As a former refugee, I came and stolen your job too. :D It's okay, I didn't want to work at the gas station anyway :)

[semograd]

What countrys did the hells angels immigrate from?

[snoop101]

Originally posted by semograd
What countrys did the hells angels immigrate from?

The Hells Angels club was formed in 1948 in Fontana, California.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Unless of course your results are based on race and could be viewed negatively. Then you're just raciest. :thumbsdow
I've always loved how this is so true. The best example is the insurance industry. Sure you can have different rates based on gender & age (sexism & ageism pretty much anywhere else) but it would be interesting to see someone charge an ethnicity that is statistically more likely to be involved in an accident more money. Of course it'll never happen though, because as TKRIS already said, no one would ever have the balls to perform such a study.


Originally posted by semograd
What countrys did the hells angels immigrate from?
Hell's Angels don't go to prison ;)

[ekguy]

it's when they try to bring in Sharia law in Canada like they did in England that we'll all be fucked. I know it's not a just sharia law thing over there but they now have it as part of the justice system do they not???

When people come to Canada and start committing so called "honor" killings where do we draw the line???

Not saying immigrants always increase crime but they sure as hell don't do anything to reduce it in any way. Every grow op in Canada is almost always Vietnamese, honor killings, FOB and FOB killers...Those aren't white gangs...

I'm not racist. I sound racist but I'm not I swear. It's just that they say immigrants increase crime which I wholly disagree with...But then again let's look at it on the other side of the spectrum...Do they reduce crime? No! Is there Asian gangs offing themselves in record numbers in this city? Yes! Is there alot of Asian grow ops being busted? Yes!...

How this isn't contributing to crime is beyond me...Oh wait yeah it is contributing to crime...

[B17a]

Originally posted by Eleanor
But just to open Pandora's box, look up a list of gang-related murder victims in Calgary. There is a fairly common trait.



Ditto for almost every grow op that is busted. At least those posted on Citybeat. They are all of similar nationality.

Having said that, to be technically correct, maybe lots of these gangsters have names that sound like immigrants but truly how many were born here??:dunno: I bet more than we think.

[Eleanor]

^ oh I totally agree. It's not very often the immigrants doing this. It's their kids.

And then we have to bust in their doors and disrespect their families :D

[ekguy]

Originally posted by Eleanor




Hell's Angels don't go to prison ;)

My cousin is direct proof of that. He got busted for a number of very VERY serious offences and got off with a slap on the wrist and apologies from the judge. It's bullshit. They also contribute to crime in this country and shouldn't be treated any differently then people coming into this country and starting a criminal career of their own.

[Eleanor]

^ Everyone gets a slap on the wrist. The only case I can think of in recent memory where someone got what he deserved was Pickton.

[semograd]

I guess lee richardson was right then, our organized biker gang problem stems from a bunch of U.S. immigrants and our native gang problem is because they all immigrated here from asia over the ice bride a few thousand years ago

[Jayson]

Originally posted by 3g4u
I see this as just another lame liberal tactic that has been blown out of proprotion. Everybody is so focused on being "politically correct" that they are blind to what may actually help Canada in reducing crime.

I think that his comments were a little harsh considering the fact that there are probably just as many if not more crimes being committed by non-immigrants.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a greater percentage of crimes being committed by people of ethnic descent, but that still doesn't excuse a comment like that from an elected official.

In a city like Calgary, immigration is not the problem for our crime, stiffer laws and longer jail sentences are the problem.

Look at what happens in the US to people with an ethnic background, they are automatically branded as a criminal because they're black, hispanic or asian. Even in Calgary there is racial profiling of the minority.

Fuck just because i'm asian, "i carry a gun and have gang connections."

IMO that comment was un-called for. I

[snoop101]

Reason why hells angels and other gangs like this is because there organized. Sounds dumb, but theres a reason why the mafia stayed around as long as they have.

This sounds more dumb, but in kelowna the HA ran the city and most people who knew what was going on were actually happy. If it wasn't them Kelowna would have had other gangs move in and get worse then what it is now. I remember when another organized gang tried to sell in Kelowna the HA ran them right out of town and they never came back. Not saying there all good people, im just saying that the crimes went on but not to a stupid level like calgary lets say where we have gang wars.

[Eleanor]

^ So true about Kelowna. My uncle's neighbor was a "former" HA and he was like the nicest guy ever. He offered us some of his peaches :rofl:

[B17a]

Originally posted by Eleanor
^ So true about Kelowna. My uncle's neighbor was a "former" HA and he was like the nicest guy ever. He offered us some of his peaches :rofl:

By "peaches" you mean handguns and coke right? :rofl: :rofl:

[snoop101]

Originally posted by Eleanor
^ So true about Kelowna. My uncle's neighbor was a "former" HA and he was like the nicest guy ever. He offered us some of his peaches :rofl:

Ya I knew a couple there and I agree very nice people. If you didn't know they where HA you would never ever guess.

[semograd]

but if the HA had nice tans, cornrows, slanted eyes or accents... then WATCH OUT!!

[snoop101]

Actually most of them, not all are business men and contribute to the community. You dont find to many "innocent" people getting caught up in HA matters.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by 3g4u
I see this as just another lame liberal tactic that has been blown out of proprotion. Everybody is so focused on being "politically correct" that they are blind to what may actually help Canada in reducing crime.

Are you so blinded by "Liberal hate" that you ignore the fact he said immigrants and refugees don’t have the same respect for authority or property?

Look beyond the left / right political dogma - the guy said something in really bad taste and needs to do more then simply say 'sorry'.

[TKRIS]

When's the last time you saw any hells angels out dealing meth beside the Mac's or shooting from the sunroof of their car?

There's something to be said for being discreet.

[snoop101]

Thats the thing with Calgary. As bad as it sound Organized crime is much better. The stuff that happens here in Calgary is not organized what so ever and thats why innocent people get shot or hurt.

Any type of Organized gang does not want to draw attention to there group. So if they need to "off" someone its done in a discreet manner.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by TKRIS
^When's the last time you saw any hells angels out dealing meth beside the Mac's or shooting from the sunroof of their car?

There's something to be said for being discreet.

Are you saying it's ok to commit a crime if you're discreet about it?

He said immigrants and refugees. Immigrants include people who may have just immigrated from places like the UK, Australia too.

We have an asian gang problem here in Calgary, that's no secret. However, how many do you think are actually born in Canada? I am willing to wager that a fair amount of them are - and they are 2nd or 3rd generation Canadians, not immigrants.

Maybe he should've been more specific and said visible minorities are the problem, not immigrants.

[Buffalo Soldier]

http://ishti.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/immigrant3sy.jpg

[semograd]

Originally posted by snoop101
Actually most of them, not all are business men and contribute to the community. You dont find to many "innocent" people getting caught up in HA matters.


Just because you dont hear it on the news doesnt mean that innocent people arnt being affected

[snoop101]

Originally posted by hampstor


Are you saying it's ok to commit a crime if you're discreet about it?



We will always have crime. Its nature.

What im saying is that the crime can go on with out directly causing pain and suffering for innocent bystander's.

As for immigrants as a whole you are right. Someone coming here from Germany working in IT is still an immigrant. We all know what he meant and I think he was being non specific for a reason.

[CUG]

Originally posted by hampstor
- the guy said something in really bad taste and needs to do more then simply say 'sorry'. No he didn't, and no he doesn't. Semantics aside.

[snoop101]

Originally posted by semograd



Just because you dont hear it on the news doesnt mean that innocent people arnt being affected

I dunno I worked security for the City in Kelowna and was out 7 days a week. I seen a lot of shit go down and out of that time I never heard anything where HA were involved in something where an innocent person got hurt or killed.

(im not saying it hasn't happened by all means, but here in Calgary it seems like its a daily event with other "gangs")

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by hampstor


Are you saying it's ok to commit a crime if you're discreet about it?

He said immigrants and refugees. Immigrants include people who may have just immigrated from places like the UK, Australia too.

We have an asian gang problem here in Calgary, that's no secret. However, how many do you think are actually born in Canada? I am willing to wager that a fair amount of them are - and they are 2nd or 3rd generation Canadians, not immigrants.

Maybe he should've been more specific and said visible minorities are the problem, not immigrants.

My comment was directed at semograd's post. You guys just beat me in there so my little hat thingy didn't fit (and was subsequently edited out).

But yes, I would say that a lot of the crimes gangs make their livings off of are much more acceptable if they're kept discreet. Personally, I'd be much happier if we just legalized drugs and let all the gangbangers go back to driving '87 Festivas, but I'm in the minority on that one.


And FWIW, I don't agree with the guy's comments, because I'm not privy to that information. I doubt he is either, which basically makes him an asshole.

However, hypothetically, if he's right, would you be oppose to him saying so?

[hampstor]

Originally posted by snoop101


We will always have crime. Its nature.

What im saying is that the crime can go on with out directly causing pain and suffering for innocent bystander's.

As for immigrants as a whole you are right. Someone coming here from Germany working in IT is still an immigrant. We all know what he meant and I think he was being non specific for a reason.

You mentioned Hells Angels specifically - so here are some crimes :

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071212/bikers_arrested_071212/20071212?hub=Canada

Charges include a variety of offences associated with drug trafficking, conspiracy to commit murder, importation of firearms, proceeds of crime and criminal organization.

Are you turning a blind eye to crimes by the Hells Angels, citing "We will always have crime. Its nature." but not an immigrant/refugee cuasing problems?


Originally posted by TKRIS

However, hypothetically, if he's right, would you be oppose to him saying so?

If he is right, then I wouldn't be opposed.

However, I'm an immigrant. I was actually in fact a landed refugee along with my parents, and tens of thousands of other people from Vietnam. Most of whom are now positive contributors to society.

Same can be said for people who were fleeing any type of oppression anywhere.

The crime is commited by a minority in society, and you honestly can't paint all immigrants/refugee's with the same brush.

[GREENBOY]

Even with the gangs...I thought it's only the top guys that are 'all' of asian descent....there are lots of other colours/backgrounds classed and associated with fob and fk now too I thought?

[snoop101]

Originally posted by hampstor


You mentioned Hells Angels specifically - so here are some crimes :

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071212/bikers_arrested_071212/20071212?hub=Canada

Charges include a variety of offences associated with drug trafficking, conspiracy to commit murder, importation of firearms, proceeds of crime and criminal organization.

Are you turning a blind eye to crimes by the Hells Angels, citing "We will always have crime. Its nature." but not an immigrant/refugee cuasing problems?

Im not trying to stick up for them, but theres nothing in there that states they killed innocent bystander's.

What im trying to say is that would you rather have organized crime or some wannabe gangsta's driving down the street shooting at people?

[hks]

i agree but disagree at the same time.
most of the people killed in the past few months are those of asian decent, pretty obvious. BUT i think it is a few people and their actions that give the whole asian population and other minorities in calgary a bad name.


"Children of immigrants are more likely to graduate from university than their peers with Canadian-born parents, according to a new Statistics Canada study."

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=4a447eeb-e403-4555-b603-1124da28e152

from the calgary herald a few days ago.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by snoop101


Im not trying to stick up for them, but theres nothing in there that states they killed innocent bystander's.

What im trying to say is that would you rather have organized crime or some wannabe gangsta's driving down the street shooting at people?

I desire neither. I don't live in a perfect world, but why should I accept one or the other?

Let me find another news article, Google is handy. :)

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/07/25/6266506-cp.html

"They (the Hells Angels) have become more powerful, and the more money they have, they more silent they can be."

Dozens of people have been killed in recent years in what police have called targeted, gang-related shootings
....

Police said two of the six in that incident were innocent bystanders.




I know it's political season. The old 'tough on crime' line doesn't work anymore. Maybe the 'tough on immigrant crime' is a going to get more votes?

[CUG]

Originally posted by hks
i agree but disagree at the same time.
most of the people killed in the past few months are those of asian decent, pretty obvious. BUT i think it is a few people and their actions that give the whole asian population and other minorities in calgary a bad name.



http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=4a447eeb-e403-4555-b603-1124da28e152

from the calgary herald a few days ago. Affirmative action in a different form... hard at work.

I remember seeing Canadian-Born friends U of C applications turned away in favor of someone who was in a visible minority. (Understandable, probably trying to shed the redneck cowboy stigma) Another asian dude from high school had mediocre a mediocre transcript by comparison and said he has no problem getting through the app process. Hey, maybe it was so they could throw that study out? :rofl:

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by hampstor
If he is right, then I wouldn't be opposed.

However, I'm an immigrant. I was actually in fact a landed refugee along with my parents, and tens of thousands of other people from Vietnam. Most of whom are now positive contributors to society.

Same can be said for people who were fleeing any type of oppression anywhere.

The crime is commited by a minority in society, and you honestly can't paint all immigrants/refugee's with the same brush.

I think this is a logical fallacy.
What he seems to be saying here is that a disproportionate amount of crimes are being commited by a certain demographic. You're confusing that with him making sweeping generalizations.
He's not saying a lot of immigrants are criminals, he's saying a lot of criminals tend to be immigrants. That might seem like semantics, but it may represent a large statistical variance, and he might be right.

It's like saying that gays are more likely to be pedophiles because many pedophiles tend to participate in homosexual acts.

It's like the "If all Snives are Snuffs, and some Snuffs are Squirts, etc" question on an IQ test.

Again, I'm not condoning anything. I don't even live in that city, so I have no fucking idea how many crimes are commited by who, nor do I give a shit.

[snoop101]

I mean im not saying that HA are "angels" (ya see what I did there). What im saying and this is in general.

Organized gangs = organized crime.. which is less likely to effect innocent people and visa versa for unorganized.

The problem with gangs here in Calgary is there not organized.

I don't like either but crime will always happen and I rather feel save where I live then to fear.

Going back to what the politician said I think he said Immigrants because you couldn't say specific nationalities. I think he had the idea but it came out wrong and now hes paying for it.

[403Gemini]

Its funny, its like the more threatening the "gang" is near by the less people go near there. My buddy lived about 2 blocks away in a trailer from the old HA headquarters in Ogden. Never had a problem with crime at all. Nice enough guys too when we'd do our drunk stumbles from his place to the liquor store and back. Gave them a few beers once on our way back.

Its a tough call, because they were most likely violet and commited lots of crime... but you never heard it and never knew about it.

I Guess when it comes down to it, we'll live with crime but i'd rather have the out of sight, out of mind. It just always seems with more organized units like HA's, they dont do petty crime like robberies and what not. If you mind your own business around them then they'll just disregard you.

[Gainsbarre]

Originally posted by CUG
Affirmative action in a different form... hard at work.

I remember seeing Canadian-Born friends U of C applications turned away in favor of someone who was in a visible minority. (Understandable, probably trying to shed the redneck cowboy stigma) Another asian dude from high school had mediocre a mediocre transcript by comparison and said he has no problem getting through the app process. Hey, maybe it was so they could throw that study out? :rofl:

Right, because with thousands of applications to the U of C each year, you just KNOW when the spot that would have been reserved just for a Canadian born person has been taken by this other person who is a member of a visible minority. Here's a little story -- I am Canadian born myself (with a non "immigrant sounding" name) and I got into the U of C back in 2001 with pretty mediocre high school grades. This immigrant friend of mine (with a "foreign sounding" name) and similar grades did not get in and went to SAIT instead.

Nice how you can read that article and immediately think "affirmative action at work", thereby completely disregarding the tremendous accomplishments that many immigrants to Canada have achieved (such as those highlighted in the article).

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Gainsbarre


Right, because with thousands of applications to the U of C each year, you just KNOW when the spot that would have been reserved just for a Canadian born person has been taken by this other person who is a member of a visible minority. Here's a little story -- I am Canadian born myself (with a non "immigrant sounding" name) and I got into the U of C back in 2001 with pretty mediocre high school grades. This immigrant friend of mine (with a "foreign sounding" name) and similar grades did not get in and went to SAIT instead.

Nice how you can read that article and immediately think "affirmative action at work", thereby completely disregarding the tremendous accomplishments that many immigrants to Canada have achieved (such as those highlighted in the article).

I like that affirmative action helps everybody. It helps non-white people get ahead in life, and it helps retarded white people by giving them an easy excuse for why they are such miserable failures.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Gainsbarre


Right, because with thousands of applications to the U of C each year, you just KNOW when the spot that would have been reserved just for a Canadian born person has been taken by this other person who is a member of a visible minority. Here's a little story -- I am Canadian born myself (with a non "immigrant sounding" name) and I got into the U of C back in 2001 with pretty mediocre high school grades. This immigrant friend of mine (with a "foreign sounding" name) and similar grades did not get in and went to SAIT instead.

Nice how you can read that article and immediately think "affirmative action at work", thereby completely disregarding the tremendous accomplishments that many immigrants to Canada have achieved (such as those highlighted in the article). Riiiiiiiight. I've taken away from Immigrant achievements and accolades by pointing out the very-obvious fact that the U of C was trying to diversify more and accepting more minority entrants than majority entrants. Your reading adventure might allow you to see that I didn't say whiteboy from Calgary wasn't allowed in. You know I what I was pointing out.

Why wouldn't I think affirmative action?

Are you genuinely going to tell me that it wasn't a goal of the U of C to diversify their student population?

[Gainsbarre]

Originally posted by CUG
Riiiiiiiight. I've taken away from Immigrant achievements and accolades by pointing out the very-obvious fact that the U of C was trying to diversify more and accepting more minority entrants than majority entrants.

"Very-obvious fact"? I thought that my little counter anecdote made it clear that non Canadian born people are the ones being discriminated against!

Is that seriously your justification? "my-white-friends-were-rejected-but-this-immigrant-got-in. it-must-be-affirmative-action!" Or were you on the admissions committee and overheard discussions such as "this person (your friend) is white with an 80% average, and this other applicant has a 79% average -- but her name is Wong -- she must be a foreign born visible minority! Let her in instead!"



Originally posted by CUG
Why wouldn't I think affirmative action?


Because you can't seem to accept that maybe, just MAYBE many immigrants value things like education very highly and are therefore more likely to take their studies at all levels more seriously? Maybe it would help to re-read the article to give you a bit of an idea of the mentality of many immigrants when it comes to education?




Originally posted by Antonito


I like that affirmative action helps everybody. It helps non-white people get ahead in life, and it helps retarded white people by giving them an easy excuse for why they are such miserable failures.

We may be witnessing an example of the latter in this very thread.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by ekguy
it's when they try to bring in Sharia law in Canada like they did in England that we'll all be fucked. I know it's not a just sharia law thing over there but they now have it as part of the justice system do they not???

When people come to Canada and start committing so called "honor" killings where do we draw the line???

Not saying immigrants always increase crime but they sure as hell don't do anything to reduce it in any way. Every grow op in Canada is almost always Vietnamese, honor killings, FOB and FOB killers...Those aren't white gangs...

I'm not racist. I sound racist but I'm not I swear. It's just that they say immigrants increase crime which I wholly disagree with...But then again let's look at it on the other side of the spectrum...Do they reduce crime? No! Is there Asian gangs offing themselves in record numbers in this city? Yes! Is there alot of Asian grow ops being busted? Yes!...

How this isn't contributing to crime is beyond me...Oh wait yeah it is contributing to crime...

A little off topic but in reference to your comment about Sharia Law, its pretty scary shit esspecially if you've been following it the last couple years and the effect its having in Europe and starting to have in Canada. And its all in direct relation to immigration (which I have no problem with).

But as Canadians we all need a little Lee Richardson in us in the sense we have to look and protect our Canadian values and beliefs instead of trying to be politcally correct meanwhile being blindsided to the hidden agenda that alot of these groups have. Our freedom is there biggest weapon against us.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Gainsbarre


"Very-obvious fact"? I thought that my little counter anecdote made it clear that non Canadian born people are the ones being discriminated against!



Originally posted by Gainsbarre

Is that seriously your justification? "my-white-friends-were-rejected-but-this-immigrant-got-in. it-must-be-affirmative-action!"Yup, I'm the only one in Calgary, and my friends are the only ones in Calgary that experienced this. NOBODY ELSE. I totally based it purely on observations.


Originally posted by Gainsbarre
Or were you on the admissions committee and overheard discussions such as "this person (your friend) is white with an 80% average, and this other applicant has a 79% average -- but her name is Wong -- she must be a foreign born visible minority! Let her in instead!" List-of-Jews.

You're only offended by my suggestion because it means if the powers that be (Canadian born whites to you) didn't make room for Immigrants, they wouldn't be doing as well. You could say thanks instead.



Originally posted by Gainsbarre


Because you can't seem to accept that maybe, just MAYBE many immigrants value things like education very highly and are therefore more likely to take their studies at all levels more seriously? Maybe it would help to re-read the article to give you a bit of an idea of the mentality of many immigrants when it comes to education?
I read the article :) Again, painting me as a bigot seems to be an easy-out for people like you. I'll continue on regardless.


"The children of almost all immigrant groups have either similar or higher university completion rates than the children of Canadian-born parents," said Teresa Abada, an assistant professor of sociology at the University of Western Ontario, who conducted the study for Statistics Canada.
...they forget to mention how these statistics are made possible in large part by the push for ethnic diversification in post-secondary learning institutions. The classes were still full 20 years ago... and I think that study was pretty vague and weightless.

Ignoring the truth because it might hurt your feelings is no way to behave Gainsbarre.


Originally posted by Gainsbarre


We may be witnessing an example of the latter in this very thread. Again, I didn't want to work at a gas station anyways :)

I've always admired the adversity that a lot of immigrants have had to overcome to get here and be successful.
===============================================

Gbarre, how come you only pick on white people??

[CUG]

I wanted to add to this... there are lots of people that have difficulties getting into and through University - many of them born and raised in Canada. Excuse me if I don't see the plight of the student as much as I do the plight of the parents.

[snoop101]

Not to start this again, but I was listening to 770 this morning and the talk show guy (Edit:ruthford) was saying what the media put out was different then what was actually said. I guess the NDP guy ran to the media and they over did what was actually said.

Im going to try to find what was actual said. I got nothing else to do. :)

[Eleanor]

Didn't he say something to the effect of:

"Look at people commiting crimes, they're not the people who grew up next door"

As for the whole U of C not letting in visible minorities, you should come to an engineering lecture :rofl:

BTW, back in 2001 wasn't the U of C still doing a first come-first served (provided you met minimum program requirements) deal? I thought they only started doing the top down system about 2003/2004 :dunno:

[TKRIS]

I was initially rejected from SAIT when I applied because of the retarded fucking "first come first serve" bullshit policy. Luckily, from what I was told, those on the waiting list are put in order of grades (the way everything should be in the first place), when people dropped out/went somewhere else, I got in.
There were two asian kids (Korean and Chinese) that couldn't speak english. I don't mean they couldn't speak it well, I mean they couldn't form anything more than a 4 word sentences, or understand/speak words with more than 3 syllables.

How the fuck do they get into college in Canada? Listen, regular school, OK. There's an obligation there to accept everyone and try to give them an education. I understand and accept that. However, that does not mean we have an obligation to pass them to the next grade, nor to give everyone a diploma, nor does it mean they have any business going to college/university.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by TKRIS
I mean they couldn't form anything more than a 4 word sentences, or understand/speak words with more than 3 syllables.
That describes half our profs at U of C! :rofl:

[snoop101]

Originally posted by TKRIS
I was initially rejected from SAIT when I applied because of the retarded fucking "first come first serve" bullshit policy. Luckily, from what I was told, those on the waiting list are put in order of grades (the way everything should be in the first place), when people dropped out/went somewhere else, I got in.
There were two asian kids (Korean and Chinese) that couldn't speak english. I don't mean they couldn't speak it well, I mean they couldn't form anything more than a 4 word sentences, or understand/speak words with more than 3 syllables.

How the fuck do they get into college in Canada? Listen, regular school, OK. There's an obligation there to accept everyone and try to give them an education. I understand and accept that. However, that does not mean we have an obligation to pass them to the next grade, nor to give everyone a diploma, nor does it mean they have any business going to college/university.

I can see where your coming from and working in the IT industry sometimes it really shows. You get people working in higher end jobs with these high end degrees, but they dont speak english. Yes I agree they may know what to do, but unless you locked in some room and never talk to anyone you will be ok. Reality is that it doesn't work that way.

[ekguy]

Originally posted by TKRIS

There were two asian kids (Korean and Chinese) that couldn't speak english. I don't mean they couldn't speak it well, I mean they couldn't form anything more than a 4 word sentences, or understand/speak words with more than 3 syllables.

How the fuck do they get into college in Canada? Listen, regular school, OK. There's an obligation there to accept everyone and try to give them an education. I understand and accept that. However, that does not mean we have an obligation to pass them to the next grade, nor to give everyone a diploma, nor does it mean they have any business going to college/university.

I even had a teacher complaining about this to me before at SAIT. Last year I had students like that in my class they couldn't even answer simple questions when asked. And I find it unfair they barely had to presentations and still got grades as good as ours. If they can't speak english couldn't they go back to the country they came from to go to school??? I didn't come here to go to school in French. I stayed my white ass in New Brunswick so I could take international baccalaureate classes in french. I could of came here to do IB classes in English but I didn't....these students come from China, Korea, Japan (they confirmed this fact in class with stilted english) and couldn't speak or barely understand a lick of english. IMO they probably all failed out by now since it gets more intense a couple semesters in but who are they kidding.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by ekguy
I even had a teacher complaining about this to me before at SAIT. Last year I had students like that in my class they couldn't even answer simple questions when asked. And I find it unfair they barely had to presentations and still got grades as good as ours. If they can't speak english couldn't they go back to the country they came from to go to school??? I didn't come here to go to school in French. I stayed my white ass in New Brunswick so I could take international baccalaureate classes in french. I could of came here to do IB classes in English but I didn't....these students come from China, Korea, Japan (they confirmed this fact in class with stilted english) and couldn't speak or barely understand a lick of english. IMO they probably all failed out by now since it gets more intense a couple semesters in but who are they kidding.

Blame SAIT being a whore for not holding up English language standards on entrance. They collect more $$$ from International students than Canadian students (after the government subsidy included). So SAIT end up taking all the rejects from UofC and Mount Royal who can't even pass TOFL.

And god forbid, these people fails, EVEN better for SAIT when they have to repeat courses.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by HuMz


A little off topic but in reference to your comment about Sharia Law, its pretty scary shit esspecially if you've been following it the last couple years and the effect its having in Europe and starting to have in Canada. And its all in direct relation to immigration (which I have no problem with).

But as Canadians we all need a little Lee Richardson in us in the sense we have to look and protect our Canadian values and beliefs instead of trying to be politcally correct meanwhile being blindsided to the hidden agenda that alot of these groups have. Our freedom is there biggest weapon against us.

Well said!

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Blame SAIT being a whore for not holding up English language standards on entrance. They collect more $$$ from International students than Canadian students (after the government subsidy included). So SAIT end up taking all the rejects from UofC and Mount Royal who can't even pass TOFL.



So true. It's annoying when people in your class can't speak english or do any group work when you're assigned with them.

[randedge]

Originally posted by snoop101


Exactly. Like I said in other countries where they come from theres usually corruption in the law enforcement or they come from an area where theres really no enforcement.


I really like how you put forward an actual point of discussion. As in, you speculated as to why. That's a good start.

What's more sad than people avoiding discussion, are people who do discuss, but have ulterior motives for discussing - you soon become aware that they do not really discuss, but only rather only wish to POINT OUT that coloured people commit more crimes.

It's easy to spot this kind of bigotry being disguised as discourse. Just ask yourself: Who wants to point the fact that there are more minorities in prisons, but says nothing more?

A true discussion involves speculation, questioning, and referencing other sources as to WHY.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Canmorite


So true. It's annoying when people in your class can't speak english or do any group work when you're assigned with them.

And the sad thing is, a lot of them are not looking for education. The are just taking advantage of new immigration law. All you need is get a student visa, go to school for 2 years, graduate, BAM work status.

Then just find a kitchen job and you'll be a Canadian citizen in another 2 years and start bringing families over.

Now, I'm not saying all students are like that. Just that if I desperately want a Canadian citizenship, it's a very low price to pay.

[Redlyne_mr2]

technically were all immigrants

[A790]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Now, I'm saying all students are like that. Just that if I desperately want a Canadian citizenship, it's a very low price to pay.
I assume you mean that all students aren't like that...

[hadookin]

Correct!

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by A790

I assume you mean that all students aren't like that...

Edited. :D

[Mixalot27]

Thread title should be Poverty = Crime. And a lot of immigrants tend to be poor and therefor some become involved in crime. So in that way its somewhat true I guess. But on the other hand the majority bust their asses at shitty jobs for years and years until they can further their educations or start their own businesses and get ahead.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Mixalot27
Thread title should be Poverty = Crime. And a lot of immigrants tend to be poor and therefor some become involved in crime. So in that way its somewhat true I guess. But on the other hand the majority bust their asses at shitty jobs for years and years until they can further their educations or start their own businesses and get ahead.

You have to look at it from a logical approach. You chart X variable versus the Y outcome. However you must keep in mind that just because it looks as if X has effects on Y, it could be a completely different variable (Z) that is truly causing the issue (forget the proper lingo for said description I just made).

So the question I would state, are immigrants MORE likely to be involved in crime BECAUSE they TEND to be poorer when first entering the country? Is this actually a true statement?

Was it this thread that commented about Australia's sooper bitchin immigration program where they are screened for their likelyhood to be a benefit to society? That is the biggest problem with Canada's system IMO; they take anyone, which is NOT an advantage for Canada.

And finally, I really hate when people say "we are all immigrants" and shit like that. Essentially every place on the freikin' planet is made of "immigrants". STOP IT. When people are asked what they think a Canadian is, do they really picture a minority? I don't believe so. They probably picture your typical caucasion because that is (or was in the beginning) the majority of the population. I am not saying that to disclude anyone (everybody who lives here is "Canadian" in my opinion) but in the end Canada is based on a caucasion-esque society with western values and beliefs.

[Gainsbarre]

Originally posted by CUG



Yup, I'm the only one in Calgary, and my friends are the only ones in Calgary that experienced this. NOBODY ELSE. I totally based it purely on observations.



We except for maybe some very rare instances, I think the individual involved is more at fault than someone who happens to be from a minority group. My experience is that visible minorities (who may or may not be immigrants) are used as a scapegoat far too often.


Originally posted by CUG

List-of-Jews.


Not too sure why this was brought up, but since it was, I'd just like to say that Emmanuelle Chriqui is very hot.


Originally posted by CUG


You're only offended by my suggestion because it means if the powers that be (Canadian born whites to you) didn't make room for Immigrants, they wouldn't be doing as well. You could say thanks instead.

Not too sure what you're saying here either. That I should be thankful that immigrants are given the chance to succeed? Well yes, I like to see people succeed, whether they be immigrants or not.


Originally posted by CUG

...they forget to mention how these statistics are made possible in large part by the push for ethnic diversification in post-secondary learning institutions. The classes were still full 20 years ago... and I think that study was pretty vague and weightless.

Ok, something to think about. Immigration to Canada is based on a points system (think back to grade school social studies when we learned about immigration). Points are awarded for fluency in Canada's official languages, age, means of support once in Canada, and, very heavily, on educational attainment. The article is talking about the children of people who have immigrated to Canada and their educational attainment levels. I'd wager pretty heavily that a big deciding factor in the parents getting into Canada was their educational attainment (that's certainly been my experience in talking to some of the cleaning staff or security guards when I spend late nights at the office -- they were dentists in Sudan, educators in India, and so on). What values would these people instill in their children? One of them is likely to be that "EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT", as it allowed then to learn multiple languages, immigrate to Canada and (ideally) provide a better future for their children. The Chinese people I know from grade school/university certainly would tell me about their parents constantly drilling this into their head, and their culture (as is the case with many eastern cultures) is certainly a bit more conformist than north american culture.


Originally posted by CUG
I've always admired the adversity that a lot of immigrants have had to overcome to get here and be successful.


That's what I've been expressing all along. Finally we agree on something :)


Originally posted by CUG
Gbarre, how come you only pick on white people??


That didn't have anything to do with this -- I did not know that you are caucasian.

[CUG]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
technically were all immigrants Technically not actually if you were born here :)


Originally posted by Gainsbarre


We except for maybe some very rare instances, I think the individual involved is more at fault than someone who happens to be from a minority group. My experience is that visible minorities (who may or may not be immigrants) are used as a scapegoat far too often.



Not too sure why this was brought up, but since it was, I'd just like to say that Emmanuelle Chriqui is very hot.



Not too sure what you're saying here either. That I should be thankful that immigrants are given the chance to succeed? Well yes, I like to see people succeed, whether they be immigrants or not.



Ok, something to think about. Immigration to Canada is based on a points system (think back to grade school social studies when we learned about immigration). Points are awarded for fluency in Canada's official languages, age, means of support once in Canada, and, very heavily, on educational attainment. The article is talking about the children of people who have immigrated to Canada and their educational attainment levels. I'd wager pretty heavily that a big deciding factor in the parents getting into Canada was their educational attainment (that's certainly been my experience in talking to some of the cleaning staff or security guards when I spend late nights at the office -- they were dentists in Sudan, educators in India, and so on). What values would these people instill in their children? One of them is likely to be that "EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT", as it allowed then to learn multiple languages, immigrate to Canada and (ideally) provide a better future for their children. The Chinese people I know from grade school/university certainly would tell me about their parents constantly drilling this into their head, and their culture (as is the case with many eastern cultures) is certainly a bit more conformist than north american culture.



That's what I've been expressing all along. Finally we agree on something :)



That didn't have anything to do with this -- I did not know that you are caucasian. I'm running out the door soon but I did want to say that I wasn't taking away from achievements of immigrants... more that I don't always find it any more significant than some kid from a family where there is no post secondary going to Uni... or a kid from a broke family that needs to shed generations of failed thinking. I think adversity is relative as is difficulty in a lot of circumstances.

I'm aware of Canada's entry stipulations as well as the attitude among a lot of my asian friends parents... The point I brought up was that for a period of time it was pretty blatant that minority applicants were favoured over... Johnny white boy. The reason I bring that up and suggest it's a qualified statement is purely out of discussions with friends and a high school teacher of mine who mentioned it as well. (he was of the attitude that us well-off Canuck kids might actually have to work a bit harder to get into school than before).

It was purely a clarity issue if I did in fact come off as a member of the KKK... I assure you I'm not. :rofl:

[Kavy]

Can someone do me a favor and post a flag so this can really get interesting.