Aldermen Want Permits For Fire Pits

[urban.one]

Good to see that a ban isnt on the table now. Im not surprised though... theres a few idiots who ruin it for everyone.


Aldermen Want Permits For Fire Pits
CHQR Newsroom
10/2/2008

A couple of Calgary aldermen say fire pits are causing the city and residents a lot of problems when it comes fire safety, noise and health issues.
While there are some regulations when it comes to hours of use and what can be burned, Aldermen Joe Ceci and Bob Hawkesworth want some more rules put in place.
In the past year and a half, there have been more 360 complaints to the city about fire pits.
Alderman Ceci says as opposed to most other major municipalities in North America, he's not looking for a ban on fire pits.
He's looking at a system of permits and the goal is not to create another level of bureaucracy.
"The idea of a permit is that people are following the rules and where they're not following rules, then perhaps have that priviledge being taken away."
Ceci says people are complaining about the health effects of having to breathe in acrid smoke and be forced indoors.
Council looks at the issue Monday.

[Kona9]

Interesting to see what comes of this.

My neighbour had a bunch of left over landscape bricks and gave them to me. I built a pretty nice firepit out of them. Now although I don't use it very often at all, it is a fun get together when it is in use. Im pretty cool with the neighbours and they would come over if I had a pit party anyways. So hardly any neighbour complaints would arise.

Anyone know the actual specifics for having one? How close to structures, fence lines etc. I found a little info, although it was not all too clear.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Those guys needs to keep themselvs occupied with more important issues at hand. I can't believe our tax dollars pay these people.

[urban.one]

From the city website:
http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Hall/Business+Units/Animal+and+Bylaw+Services/Bylaw+Services/Bylaws+of+Interest/Fire+Pits.htm

Fire Pit Regulations
Fire pit regulations are a part of the Community Standards Bylaw 5M2004 (68KB) sections 11-18. This information provides an overview of fire pit regulations, however if you would like more details, please refer to the actual bylaw. Original copies of the bylaw are available at the City Clerk's office.

What is the law?

All fires must be:

In a fire pit or receptacle constructed of non-combustible material.
In a fire pit built into the bare ground or set upon non-combustible material such as brick or stone (if not in a receptacle).
Not within 2 metres of the property line, building or fence, or beneath any trees or branches (or other combustible materials).
Kept to a reasonable size (under 1m both height and width) so the fire, embers, sparks or dense smoke do not endanger anyone or cause a nuisance on any neighbouring properties.
Fully supervised at all times.
Be fully extinguished by 1:00 a.m. You may relight the fire after 8:00 a.m. the following morning.
You must have a means to extinguish the fire on hand at all times.

You cannot burn:

Treated or painted lumber
Lumber products containing glue or resin
Wet or unseasoned wood
Leaves, brush or yard waste
Garbage
Rubber, tires or plastic
Any animal carcass or part
Remember, the Fire Department has the power to enact a fire ban. The Fire Department, Police or a Bylaw Officer may ask you to extinguish your fire when a fire ban is in effect or if you are not complying with the regulations listed above.

Have a complaint?
Fines for non-compliance of these regulations range between $300 and $5000. If you would like to report an infraction please:

Call 9-1-1 - if the concern is an emergency in nature
Call 3-1-1 - or (403) 268-CITY (2489) - if calling from outside Calgary - if the concern is not an emergency in nature, or
Contact us




Originally posted by Kona9


Anyone know the actual specifics for having one? How close to structures, fence lines etc. I found a little info, although it was not all too clear.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Those guys needs to keep themselvs occupied with more important issues at hand. I can't believe our tax dollars pay these people.

Exactly! Where does it go from there? Lets spend another $1M on more Bylaw officers to enforce this!?!

[Melinda]

I'm torn on this. I know it's fun sometimes to have a fire and kick back in the back yard but our neighbours (still cant figure out who, someone in Bridlewood) light theirs up CONSTANTLY during the summer and stinks up the entire neighbourhood, night after night. And when it's so hot that you have no choice but to open your windows, it doesn't take long for the whole house to smell like fire. My parents complain about the same thing, only their neighbours are also really loud AND they let things go really late. Another one of their neighbours heats his garage with a wood burning fire inside with a chimney that catches the wind and shoots it right at my parent's place, so unfortuneately they get it all year round.

So it seems there are pros and cons on both sides. I like to lounge infront of a nice fire as much as the next guy, but there is a part of me who thinks it might not be a great idea for crowded and cramped city communities. :dunno:

[malbadon]

can't help but agree with Melinda. Firepits are fine if they are occasional use things, heck my neighbour has one. But if I lived beside someone who used theirs every single weekend all summer long I would freak. I don't need my house smelling like a campground. My don't care attitude would sure change if my bedroom was filling with smoke on a 30 degree summer evening...

Didn't know you couldn't burn leaves though, would have assumed that was fine as long as it was inside the pit (as opposed to having just a big-ass leafpile burning on your lawn)

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Those guys needs to keep themselvs occupied with more important issues at hand. I can't believe our tax dollars pay these people.

We have a million people in this city. It must be an issue for someone, somewhere and this one is a easy win of politicians.

I love fire pits but there are too much fucking idiots who violate the rule. My fucking ghetto imported neighbor build a fire pit right next to his house and then start burning treated wood and garbage to cook food with- make no fucking sense at all. It was summer and I got windows opened and my house was smoked and stung for days.

[Masked Bandit]

I have to wonder about the number of complaints. At our last house I had a very nice firepit built right into a retaining wall. It met all the requirements for distance and such and we only used it three or four times a summer. A neighbour across the back and down TWO properties complained twice that smoke was getting in her window. This was around 9:00 PM on Saturday nights (after the kids were in bed) and the wife and I were out there with a fairly small fire (two feet high max). Her problem was that she had asthma (sp?) and it bothered her......WELL THEN KEEP THE BLOODY WINDOW CLOSED! One night the fire department actually showed up and said we had to put it out. The guy was pretty sheepish about it because he knew it was total bullshit but he has to do his job. It's people like that old bitch that ruin it for everyone.

[l/l/rX]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
I have to wonder about the number of complaints. At our last house I had a very nice firepit built right into a retaining wall. It met all the requirements for distance and such and we only used it three or four times a summer. A neighbour across the back and down TWO properties complained twice that smoke was getting in her window. This was around 9:00 PM on Saturday nights (after the kids were in bed) and the wife and I were out there with a fairly small fire (two feet high max). Her problem was that she had asthma (sp?) and it bothered her......WELL THEN KEEP THE BLOODY WINDOW CLOSED! One night the fire department actually showed up and said we had to put it out. The guy was pretty sheepish about it because he knew it was total bullshit but he has to do his job. It's people like that old bitch that ruin it for everyone.

haha fuck thats brutal... its like that other thread where that guy was complaining about his neighbour bbq'ing too much. :facepalm:
im sure you can live with your window closed for a night. its not like its gonna get any cooler in your house on a hot summer night with your window open.

[GREENBOY]

I'm about to build one ready for winter nights. I'd feel kind of shitty using it lots over summer though with the neighbours having their windows open etc. I think it's even shitty to ask them if they mind cos half the time they're going to say "no really it's fine" just to be polite. I think firepits are fine, but in moderation and used respectfully.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by l/l/rX


haha fuck thats brutal... its like that other thread where that guy was complaining about his neighbour bbq'ing too much. :facepalm:
im sure you can live with your window closed for a night. its not like its gonna get any cooler in your house on a hot summer night with your window open.

My old neighbor with propane BBQ I have no problem with.

The fact is that these dumb asses have a fire 2 feet from the wall worry me more. Smoke got in before I can do anything about it.

I'm not against fire pit, people just need common sense. Put that shit as far away from anything that can catch on fire.

[mekeni]

I'm all for it !!

[Heff]

Originally posted by Melinda
but our neighbours (still cant figure out who, someone in Bridlewood) light theirs up CONSTANTLY during the summer and stinks up the entire neighbourhood, night after night. And when it's so hot that you have no choice but to open your windows, it doesn't take long for the whole house to smell like fire.

They live on my street.

[Jay911]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Those guys needs to keep themselvs occupied with more important issues at hand. I can't believe our tax dollars pay these people.

and


Originally posted by phreezee
Exactly! Where does it go from there? Lets spend another $1M on more Bylaw officers to enforce this!?!

It's not bylaw that goes out on calls like this 99% of the time, it's firefighters. There are people who will phone 9-1-1 at 1:03am to complain about a neighbors' backyard fire, because they know that the bylaw says 1:00am is the limit. There are tons of people who are well-known to fire crews and dispatch crews because they phone about their neighbors' fires all the time at all hours of the day. There are also times when people call about fires with no real reason to complain, other than they don't like their neighbor having a fire (a.k.a. "I didn't get invited to the party so I'm going to complain that the fire is bothering me").

Bring permits in for firepits. Hell yeah! I'm behind this 100%. Out here in the municipal district, you have to have a permit for any kind of fire besides liquid fueled barbecues/stoves. We hardly ever get complaints about permit burns, and not very often does a permit burn get out of control.

Complaining about backyard burns is, in my opinion, a big chunk of the garbage calls that plague our emergency responders right now. With permits in place, people will have to have one in order to burn, and will have to call the fire department when they start burning and when they stop. It's a great idea and not a waste of time by the city. They could address something else instead of this, yes, but this wouldn't prevent anything else from getting done.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Heff


They live on my street.
Haha care to share their address? We tried hunting them down one night, but their fire smell litterally carried over the whole neighbourhood, we couldn't find them to save our souls (seriously, wtf do they burn in their fire pit that is SO strong?). We dont want to be those people who call bylaw and bitch and complain, but it wouldn't hurt to be able to pop our head over their fence at midnight on a +30*C wednesday after smelling their fire for the last 2 nights and ask them if it's possible for them to pack it in or perhaps hang out for the remainder of the night sans fire so we can go to bed with our window open.

[broken_legs]

get air conditioning? :dunno:



I think there's exceptions to where people abuse this, but I grew up having fires in the back yard, burning leaves and yard waste was common place.

Backyard fire pits are pretty slick. I have one myself and so do the neighbours o both sides of me. We are all in older houses here in Killarney, with big back yards. I bet within a year all of the people in the new 2 story infills who have no yards and spent 4/5 of a million dollars on their home will be bitching and complaining.

If you burn safe, and you burn real firewood there shouldn't be an issue.

So to the people with asthma and whatever other issues, maybe they should have thought twice before moving to a place where people are allowed to burn.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by broken_legs
So to the people with asthma and whatever other issues, maybe they should have thought twice before moving to a place where people are allowed to burn.
So they shouldn't live in a city at all? That's a little condiscending and broad, don't you think? Just about any person with a back yard in this city is permitted to have a fire. You mean to tell me EVERY person with asthma should have to live in an apartment in the middle of downtown or in the middle of some field somewhere just so they can breathe in their home on a hot summer night so that people with the tiny back yards can have a camp fire? That's like saying asthma sufferers shouldn't go where people can smoke. As I said earlier, we have a neighbour who has fires that constantly fill up our home with smoke and we dont even know where they live. It's not like the smoke hovers within 10 feet of the pit and that's all, it can litterally spread through an entire community, especially in suburbia where the avg home owner has little more than a deck in their back yard. Having a fire is not a right, it is a priviledge...or at least it sounds like city council is leaning towards making it that way. People can't help the fact that they have a condition or disease. I dont even have asthma or anything like it and I think you're way out of line with that statement.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Melinda

So they shouldn't live in a city at all? That's a little condiscending and broad, don't you think? Just about any person with a back yard in this city is permitted to have a fire. You mean to tell me EVERY person with asthma should have to live in an apartment in the middle of downtown or in the middle of some field somewhere just so they can breathe in their home on a hot summer night so that people with the tiny back yards can have a camp fire? That's like saying asthma sufferers shouldn't go where people can smoke. As I said earlier, we have a neighbour who has fires that constantly fill up our home with smoke and we dont even know where they live. It's not like the smoke hovers within 10 feet of the pit and that's all, it can litterally spread through an entire community, especially in suburbia where the avg home owner has little more than a deck in their back yard. Having a fire is not a right, it is a priviledge...or at least it sounds like city council is leaning towards making it that way. People can't help the fact that they have a condition or disease. I dont even have asthma or anything like it and I think you're way out of line with that statement.

alrighty.......

I guess I'm just a big jerk but, I don't agree with your line of thinking at all. Sorry.

Asthma sufferers probably shouldn't go where people smoke, just like they shouldn't move into a neighbourhood that allows fires, or go camping, or go downtown during rush hour, or, or, or, or, or. Having Asthma probably limits a lot of things that one could do. Asthma is a pretty serious condition and can kill you.


If you have a problem, the onus is yours to deal with it. Effectively what you are advocating is passing on the responsibility to look after this persons health to everyone else. I would agree with you if this was a child, or someone who couldn't make grown up responsible decisions on their own, but clearly we are talking about adults.

Imagine if people who were allergic to Peanuts petitioned the government to take all peanut related everything entirely out of the food supply. Would you support that too? Is it fair that everyone loses their right to eat peanuts just because a minority of people are allergic to them? Where does this line of thinking stop?

Someone with asthma moving to an area where people have fires is like someone who's allergic to peanuts going for Thai Food. They don't need to eat Thai Food, just like that person with Asthma can live anywhere they want.

Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. I know there are idiots out there who abuse their right to have a fire, and justifiably they should be dealt with. I just can't agree with your logic in this case.

My neighbours on two sides always smoke pot outside. It fills up my house with the stench of pot in the summer. I hate it, but I live with this occasional disturbance. They also both have their own firepits, and sometimes the wind brings the smoke over to my house. I close the windows adjacent to the fire. Not really a big deal for me.

So to answer your questions
1.) I'm sure there are lots of places (within this city!) where fires aren't allowed. It just so happens that in this particular city, in limited areas, they are.
2.) No.
3.) Thats not what I'm saying at all. If they choose to live there that's there own choice. This is a free country and you can live where ever you want. Just don't expect that everyone change and give up their rights just to accommodate you.

[hampstor]

A fire pit can be safe and not intrusive to everyone else around your neighborhood if you do not burn materials that tend to smoke a lot (ie: yard scrap, wet timber), and if you let a firepit burn down properly before putting it out.

People have had fire pits for decades in their yards and if you are smart about how you use it, you will not disturb your neighbors.

Having permits can go both ways:

1) penalize responsible home owners who use their fire pits properly
2) discourage, but not stop the irresponsible homeowners who have no idea what they are doing with a firepit. I'm talking about people who think the best way to put out a fire is to run a garden house on a firepit for 30 minutes, thus smoking out their entire neighborhood.

What it is GUARANTEED to do:

1) Create an addition drain on city revenues. New permits, new enforcement has to be setup - lots of bureacratic shit. They will add it on the long list of reasons why they will raise property taxes.
2) Give another reason for your asshole neighbor to call someone to complain about you because he's too much of a fucking pussy to come over and talk to you about it.

I just had dinner with Joe Ceci on Saturday night. If I had known about this before hand, I would've had a few words for him about it :guns:

[canuckcarguy]

I figure we're in enough of a nanny-state already without introducing yet another rule. So they got 360 complaints out of an entire city of a million people in a year? 1 per day? Is it just me, or does this seem like a teensy-weensy problem that's hardly worth talking about?

As far as asthma is concerned, a lot of asthma "sufferers" blow it out of proportion. Smelling a fire from 2 doors away is not equivalent to being right next to a burning fire - ie, the smell alone isn't the problem, it's the heavy smoke that would come from sitting beside a campfire, the same way that the smell of cigarette smoke in of itself is not dangerous, even if it's disgusting to most people.

If you have really bad asthma, it might be advisable to purchase air conditioning and a good air filtration system, not just because of the occasional backyard fire pit, but also because there are many other air contaminants that can enter the home and cause problems, including regular fireplaces, BBQs, car exhaust, pollen, etc, etc, etc. Next thing you know you won't be allowed to start your car, grill your steak, or grow a tree because there's a mild asthmatic in the neighborhood.

Call me biased, but I think 90% of people who complain about this are whiners in general, and just like to end people's enjoyment. With high gas prices and people working lots of hours to make the bills, it's nice if you can spend an evening every now and again by the fire without having to load up the camping supplies and head out of town...

[broken_legs]

WORD!

[urban.one]

Tuesday » October 7 » 2008

City explores firepit permits despite 'enforcement nightmare'

Kim Guttormson
Calgary Herald


Tuesday, October 07, 2008


The city will examine how a permit system for backyard firepits might work, exploring further regulations despite concerns it would be an "enforcement nightmare."

In a 9-5 vote, council asked staff to look at a permit system and what other cities do with open fires.

"Primarily, maybe some further restrictions help us live more in harmony with people burning," said Ald. Joe Ceci, one of two aldermen who brought the motion forward.

Ceci and Ald. Bob Hawkesworth said people bothered by the smoke, particularly those with asthma or other health problems, have little recourse if the rules are being followed.

Ald. Brian Pincott, who favours banning firepits within city limits, believes that might be a recommendation staff bring back in March.

"We're a city of a million people. We have changed. There are certain things we just can't do anymore," he said.

"Firepits may very well be one of those things."

Some aldermen worried that further rules around backyard fires would be unenforceable.

"So we're going to license firepits?" Ald. Ric McIver said. "We can't enforce our current regulations, are we magically going to be able to enforce new regulations?"

Ald. Dale Hodges said more rules would require building up enforcement for a "relatively minor problem."

It's estimated that up to one-third of homes have firepits.

Last year, the city received 217 complaints.

"This would be an enforcement nightmare if you embark down this path," Hodges said.

"I suggest you don't."

Erika Hargesheimer, general manager of community and protective services, said existing regulations set standards for where the pits can be located and what can be burned, and place an 1 a.m. curfew on the fires.

But she acknowledged "bylaw can't be in every backyard in a city of a million people."

[email protected]

© The Calgary Herald 2008








Copyright © 2008 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

[urban.one]

Usually its the squeaky wheel that gets the grease and the squeaky wheel is the firepit complainers.

Take a minute to email your alderman and tell them that you enjoy your backyard firepit and are a responsible user.

Find your alderman here:

http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Hall/Municipal+Government/Office+of+the+Aldermen/Ward+Offices/Ward+Communities.htm

[lint]

I wonder how much money they're going to spend examining this one, only to come to an official conclusion that it won't be enforceable.


Ald. Brian Pincott, who favours banning firepits within city limits, believes that might be a recommendation staff bring back in March.

"We're a city of a million people. We have changed. There are certain things we just can't do anymore," he said.

"Firepits may very well be one of those things."

Is this guy an idiot? So when calgary was a city of 500K people, we were responsible enough to have firepits. Now that we're 1M people, all of a sudden EVERYONE is an idiot and can't be trusted with a backyard fire?