Questions on buying first car?

[Legless_Marine2]

Background: Looking to buy our first car. We were planning on spending $7000 for a minivan, but with the economy cratering, are looking to spend as little as possible.

At this point, we've redefined our goal to a station wagon[1]. Ideally, I'd like to see us spend no more than $3000 if it can be done sensibly.

We don't mind getting something older/crappy, as long as it is both safe and reliable. We are willing to compromise on asthetics, but would hate to see my wife and kid stranded on 16th ave.

So, the question are threefold:

1) What is the financial "sweet spot" for buying a cheaper station wagon, without compromising safety or reliability?

2) What is the best avenue for purchasing such a vehicle: Used car lots, auto trader, etc?

3) Can anyone make any recommendations on particular years/models that would be a good starting point for our search?


Thanks in advance,
LM2.




[1] Station wagon isn't an absolute requirement... we're willing to be flexible if it makes sense to do so.

[A790]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2
So, the question are threefold:

1) What is the financial "sweet spot" for buying a cheaper station wagon, without compromising safety or reliability?

2) What is the best avenue for purchasing such a vehicle: Used car lots, auto trader, etc?

3) Can anyone make any recommendations on particular years/models that would be a good starting point for our search?

[1] Station wagon isn't an absolute requirement... we're willing to be flexible if it makes sense to do so.

Right now a lot of dealers are offering vehicles at 0% financing over periods of 5 years (or longer), so it may be worth considering a newer, albeit less expensive vehicle. Something like a Dodge Caliber, which starts at around $16,000, or a Mazda5 might be a great solution.

If you don't want to spend that kind of money and would rather stick to your $3,000 limit you'll have to do a lot of searching on your end. It's doubtful that many car dealers, save those ultra-shady 17th ave dealers, will have many vehicles worth looking at in that price range.

I'd look at older Mazda Protoge's and Toyota Corolla's. Unfortunately, $3,000 doesn't give you much to play with. Check Kijiji, buysell.com, and canadatrader.com before you head into a dealer.

Good luck :)

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by A790


If you don't want to spend that kind of money and would rather stick to your $3,000 limit you'll have to do a lot of searching on your end. It's doubtful that many car dealers, save those ultra-shady 17th ave dealers, will have many vehicles worth looking at in that price range.


Good luck :)

Much appreciated, A790. It sounds like my 3000 is fairly unreasonable. That being said, I'm still not ready to jump to $16,000.

Any suggestion of what I *should* be looking at for a vehicle price that is the ideal compromise between price/Safety?

[nbaker00]

Originally posted by A790


Right now a lot of dealers are offering vehicles at 0% financing over periods of 5 years (or longer), so it may be worth considering a newer, albeit less expensive vehicle. Something like a Dodge Caliber, which starts at around $16,000, or a Mazda5 might be a great solution.

Exactly:thumbsup:
One of our models, the Swift which well equipped starts around $14,000-$15,000 and you can do 0% financing for 84 months!!
That is super, super low payments, and I believe you can pay out the loan at any time, penalty free!

[black13]

Check these out, they both got lots of life left in them and these cars are known to last and be reliable.
93 Toyota Camery Wagon (http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Toyota-93-TOYOTA-CAMRY-WAGON-VERY-RARE-W0QQAdIdZ82307447)

91 Honda Accord Wagon (http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Honda-91-honda-accord-station-wagon-W0QQAdIdZ82624019)

[Xtrema]

That budget seems low for a good reliable car.

A base Matrix is $284/month tax in, before bargaining. A Vibe (twin of Matrix) is be a few bucks less.

Your $7K will give you 2 years of trouble free motoring.

And if you want to go down a bit more, there's always base Honda Fit (same price as Vibe) or the Korean Chevys (just over $10K).

[hypnotoad]

Why people are suggesting $14000+ I'm not sure.

I suggest you go with an older model (mid-to-late 90's) Dodge Caravan or Plymouth Voyager. These vans are a nice size, they look great, and have some pretty neat features. They also have fairly bad resale value which is a good thing for the consumer.

Check out the later models as well...they're very affordable and great for families.

[a social dsease]

my mom's selling her 99' Saturn SW1 wagon. Everyone will probably knock it because it's a saturn, but it has been amazingly reliable for us, even more so than my Integra. Right in your price range too.

(hope nobody minds if I post the link here)

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Saturn-1999-Saturn-Wagon-SW1-W0QQAdIdZ83693516

[realazy]

For a minivan, I'd suggest the first generation Honda Oddessy. The only down side to some people, but upside to my family is that it actually has 4 doors. (no sliding doors) A 95 can be had for under $5000 and it's got Honda reliability. It uses the same engine as the same year Accords.

My family has had ours since new and we've had no problems with it in 14 years of ownership.

The other option I would suggest is the Accord wagon of the same generation. The accord wagon is basically the same car as the Oddessy. These can be also had for around the same price.

[Civ2NR]

Sounds like you're on a fairly fixed income, my apologies if I'm reading into your posts incorrectly. If so, you should really be considering the total cost of ownership.

Spending $3000 on a older model station wagon and then having to fork out money for parts / labor unexpectedly would not be fun. You really don't know when things will go wrong with an older car, regardless if it has been reliable to date. Older model vehicles tend to be less fuel efficient as well. Factor in the current gas prices, regular maintenance, warranty, etc. By raising your budget to buy a more economically sensible alternative, even through financing, you will likely save a lot more money over the life of the car.

[hypnotoad]

Does it need to be wheelchair accessible? Seeing as how you have no legs?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by hypnotoad
Why people are suggesting $14000+ I'm not sure.


$3000 buys shit

If you got a budget of $7000, you can get 2 years of driving a worry free new lease car out of it while his $7K sit in the bank and collect 4% gain in a savings account. And hopefully, you can buy it out in the end for for another $7K.

He has a wife and kid (I assume young) and last thing you want is something that's dangerous or break down in the middle of winter.

There are many news cars within reach if you have the credit.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by Xtrema


$3000 buys shit

If you got a budget of $7000, you can get 2 years of driving a worry free new lease car out of it while his $7K sit in the bank and collect 4% gain in a savings account. And hopefully, you can buy it out in the end for for another $7K.

He has a wife and kid (I assume young) and last thing you want is something that's dangerous or break down in the middle of winter.

There are many news cars within reach if you have the credit.

I'm interested. We have credit, but are incredibly hesitant to exercise it.

It sounds overty appealing, but truth be told, I don't understand the first thing about leasing, and am not informed enough to anticipate the "gochas". At least buying a car for cash is a linear transaction I can guage the risk on.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by a social dsease
my mom's selling her 99' Saturn SW1 wagon. Everyone will probably knock it because it's a saturn, but it has been amazingly reliable for us, even more so than my Integra. Right in your price range too.

(hope nobody minds if I post the link here)

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-Saturn-Saturn-Wagon-SW1-1999-W0QQAdIdZ80484164

That really looks like what we're looking for... Unfortunately, we won't be ready to make the purchase until Mid Dec.

Thank you for your post - It's appreciated.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


I'm interested. We have credit, but are incredibly hesitant to exercise it.

It sounds overty appealing, but truth be told, I don't understand the first thing about leasing, and am not informed enough to anticipate the "gochas". At least buying a car for cash is a linear transaction I can guage the risk on.

The gotchas are:

1) km limits

2) slightly higher insurance premium for a non-owned car

3) possible hassle on returns which are be mitigated leasing a new one or buying it out.

TCO will definitely cost more than buying out right but the risk of depreciation is on the dealer side. And you can have your car sooner.

But if you insist on buying used, here's a pretty good pick in your range.

http://www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32849999&pgno=1&srt=1

[clem24]

Well don't forget about lease downpayment.

You can buy any of the above for $3000 and have a perfect car for 2 years, OR, have a car that breaks down constantly and needs constant new parts. It's a gamble.

But if you lease, you pay your downpayment, then you pay the depreciation on the car. At the end of 2 years, give it back to the dealer. Basically a lease is good only if you intend on keeping it short term. Some people like to drive new cars every few years, and leasing is a great option.

Another option is to take over someone else's lease. In these cases, you don't have to put down a deposit and you just take over payments.

Not sure about nbaker's offer though. 84 months is an awful long time, but at 0% for that kind of period, you'd basically be losing money NOT going that route. If your job is steady, I would never ever pay out a loan like that early. Just put down the absolute minimum deposit, and away you go! :D

But in my opinion, I'd just go with whatever I can afford. Being tied down with a loan really sucks.

[jonnycat]

A tad higher than original budget, but priced well. AWD relaible and lots of room.


http://www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=33259311&pgno=1&srt=7

[adam c]

you ride my ass in a finance topic yet you don't even know how to buy a fucking car and yet you're married and have a kid?

what the hell is wrong with you

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by jonnycat
http://www.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=33259311&pgno=1&srt=7

132K tho. That's high.

[Weapon_R]

Some of my personal choices (all can be found for under 7k):

Subaru Forester - ugly as shit, but awd, roomy, lasts forever, and seems to have its following so I assume it has some good characteristics. Good for a growing family. Like the outback, I've seen them rack up some serious mileage and that's a good indication of their longevity.

Subaru Outback - I like these wagons. They look badass and I've seen more than a handful with over 275k and still running strong. Probably an acquired taste but as good as your going to get for a $7,000 wagon.

The obvious minivans Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna. Good solid family vehicles but there's nothing worse than pulling up in a minivan...well, anywhere.

Honda CR-V - almost as roomy as a minivan, legendary B-series engine, excellent reliability, AWD, and holds value forever. I would definitely put this at the top of my list.

Saturn VUE - I almost bit the bullet on one of these. They are decently reliable, have lots of room, AWD, a decent build, and CHEAP. I was trying to get an 04 with under 110k on it for $6k. Only reason I don't own one is because someone beat me to it. They aren't going to set any records, but they are the easiest way to get into a later model vehicle without breaking the bank.


Suggestions to stay away from:

Suzuki swifts...umm, REALLY? I doubt you'd be able to fit your penis in one of those, let alone a family. Not only that, but financing for 84 months? LOL. Do you know what a swift is worth in 7 years? You'll be paying someone to tow it off your parking lot and into the junkyard. People who need to finance a swift for 84 months have no business owning a car.

Dodge Caravans/Ford Windstars - these are bottom of the barrel vehicles that will give you LOTS of problems. They epitomize everything that is wrong with the American motor industry. They are poorly built, have engine/transmission problems, and very poor resale value.

Anything for $3,000 - I can't see you buying anything short of a sunfire, 15 year old civic, or a car with 200k+ for this. None are appealing choices for a guy concerned with not being stranded in the dead of winter.

Anything outside of your budget - you don't need to spend 16k to get a good car. Hell, you can get a good vehicle for 6k I believe. Don't get caught up in financing or leasing if you aren't comfortable doing so. Buying a good car is as easy as being careful, careful inspections, and researching the net to see what common problems you might experience.

[barmanjay]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2
Background: Looking to buy our first car. We were planning on spending $7000 for a minivan, but with the economy cratering, are looking to spend as little as possible.

At this point, we've redefined our goal to a station wagon[1]. Ideally, I'd like to see us spend no more than $3000 if it can be done sensibly.

We don't mind getting something older/crappy, as long as it is both safe and reliable. We are willing to compromise on asthetics, but would hate to see my wife and kid stranded on 16th ave.

So, the question are threefold:

1) What is the financial "sweet spot" for buying a cheaper station wagon, without compromising safety or reliability?

2) What is the best avenue for purchasing such a vehicle: Used car lots, auto trader, etc?

3) Can anyone make any recommendations on particular years/models that would be a good starting point for our search?


Thanks in advance,
LM2.




[1] Station wagon isn't an absolute requirement... we're willing to be flexible if it makes sense to do so.



We were in the same spot at the beginning of the year

Had about 7k for a family vehicle,.. but hummed and hawwed at many vehicles.

Dodges, mazdas, hondas, etc.

We picked something with easy access to parts if needed, as well as price point for parts (domestic)

We ended up settling for a pontiac montana (98) - not the chevy venture,.. their interiors are crap

we have the smaller one,.. but wish we got the extended one,.. but the price was right

$3000, less than 180k,.. rebuilt motor

We are happy.

So far it has proven itself quite a reliable van, and very useable with all the space.

Been to Van and back, Grand Prairie and back this year.

2 adults, 3 kids plus a $300 trip to costco and a small stroller - no problem

I say shop around for a good pontiac montana,.. the prices are getting very low.

We saw a 2001 selling for 3k just a couple months ago

I'm only saying the montana because they are cheap, cheap to maintain, very useable vehicles, nothing really major for engine and drivetrain problems (sometimes the LIM gasket - lower intake manifold - I have a good mech who can do it in about 4 hours)

Haven't heard anything bad about the tranny's

Pontiac interiors have always been the nicest I've found in the whole GM lineup

Do you research

Hope this helps

[flipstah]

What about those Plymouth Voyagers that are egg-shaped?

They seem to be reliable vehicles and cheap in the market.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by flipstah
What about those Plymouth Voyagers that are egg-shaped?

They seem to be reliable vehicles and cheap in the market.

I'll watch for the mileage. Transmission failure is high and timing belt is over $1K to replace.

[toastgremlin]

Originally posted by flipstah
What about those Plymouth Voyagers that are egg-shaped?

They seem to be reliable vehicles and cheap in the market. A604 automatic transmissions love to shit the bed (and quite violently, too). Chrysler uses it in pretty much everything.

The Montana seems like a pretty safe bet; you might be able to reduce the price of what you'd pay if you go looking at auctions. Regal Auctions (http://www.regalauctions.com/) tends to have a lot of domestics, and the city auctions (impound or surplus) tend to have a lot of potentially abused but cheap people-movers.

You could also try a junkyard special at Pick Your Part or other junkyards; however I think you now have to register PYP's specials yourself.

[hypnotoad]

Alright, we've decided that you're going to get a Plymouth Voyager. OK? Thanks...

Keep in touch on how it works out.

[Casa]

How about going to an auction with a mechanic? Spend $60 dollars for a mechanic and go to Grahame auctions on a friday (new vehicles land than) and pick out a older import. There's lots of mechanics that would do that. They had a 97 Nissan Maxima with 180k go for 3800 not too long ago and it was in great shape. And those cars are bulletproof. My parents picked up a beater truck, a 2002 Ford F150 Supercab Premium Edition package there with 225000km and we drove it across Canada, haven't had to put a cent into, it passed OOP in Ontario needing NOTHING and we got it for $3400! and the body is mint on it, and its a desirable black color. So goes to show, some auction vehicles can be good, just do your research and bring a mechanic.

[Legless_Marine2]

Wow,

Thanks everyone for the replies. Lots of useful stuff here. I'm going to followup one everyone's leads and recommendations - You've all been incredible helpful.

Thanks Again,
LM2.

[realazy]

Originally posted by Weapon_R



Saturn VUE - I almost bit the bullet on one of these. They are decently reliable, have lots of room, AWD, a decent build, and CHEAP. I was trying to get an 04 with under 110k on it for $6k. Only reason I don't own one is because someone beat me to it. They aren't going to set any records, but they are the easiest way to get into a later model vehicle without breaking the bank.




Good choice if this can be had for under $7000. This generation V6 VUE uses a Honda V6.

edit: Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_L66_engine

same engine as the MDX and has VTEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!