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Casa
11-03-2008, 11:43 AM
so my friend is looking at buying one of these cars. He's done his research and I've talked to him thoroughly about what's he going to expect with each car.
first to start it off, the Lexus IS300 (2002-2003).
http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/nobu/7189002+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/2003-lexus-is300-1.jpg
He wants a manual, but its hard to find a manual IS for some reason. This would be the most reliable car of the three, but its definitely not the quickest. Any opinions on this car? Anyone owned one?

he's also interested in a 2001-2002 BMW 325Ci (330Ci) if the price is right.
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/113074/bm1.JPG
It seemed pretty quick to him and handled a little better than the Lexus. However.. these aren't so reliable are they? he's reading this thread, so all opinions would be appreciated.

And lastly, he's interested in a 2001-2002 Audi S4.
http://germancarwiki.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/audi/s4/2001_audi_s4.jpg
Now these are pretty unreliable, but they are probably the fastest of the three. They have lots of features as well.. I know there's not a whole lot of Audi owners on beyond, but any opinions are useful.

oh and BTW, he does most of his own maintainence, and only large things, like timing belts would make him take the stuff to the shop, but brakes, struts, belts, etc are do-able for him. And this car would be his DD. What's your guys recommendations? :)

EDIT: Reliability is important to him, he doesn't want to be under his car every week if that makes sense, but minor things doesn't bother him. A maintainence pig isn't what he's looking for. And he's looking to spend $15-20k.

bobby_lu
11-03-2008, 11:47 AM
There's no 328 past 2000 for E46.

I vote Audi. You obviusly know the shortcomings of each car. So figure out what's most important; reliability, handling/balance, or AWD and fast.

Inzane
11-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Reliability aside, my personal preferred order for those three would be:
Audi S4 > BMW 328i/330i > Lexus IS300
(based on overall desirability, driving enjoyment and performance)

Senseiz
11-03-2008, 11:58 AM
How much is he willing to spend, $20k?

nbaker00
11-03-2008, 12:05 PM
Audi S4 ftw!

Eleanor
11-03-2008, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Inzane
Reliability aside, my personal preferred order for those three would be:
Audi S4 > BMW 328i/330i > Lexus IS300
(based on overall desirability, driving enjoyment and performance)
In terms of reliability, it's the exact opposite :rofl:

Inzane
11-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Eleanor

In terms of reliability, it's the exact opposite :rofl:

I don't really care, which is exactly why I said "reliability aside". :poosie:

Fuji
11-03-2008, 02:23 PM
The IS300 is a good reliable car with one of the nicer interiors. I never had any troubles with mine. It was pretty slow though, but got me back and forth to work. It's not a great winter car even with trac on and good winters.


it's going to be hard to find one in good condition with a 5-speed. I'd expect to pay bit of a premium for a 5 speed


s4 = fun

bspot
11-03-2008, 02:26 PM
B5 S4 with K04 swap = :burnout:

The fastest car I've ever been in was a very modified B5 S4. Great platform. Still fun in the winter too.

If he's leaving it stock, there are a couple parts that should be replaced with better versions of the stock parts and it'll be really reliable for him.

rc2002
11-03-2008, 02:30 PM
It all comes down to what he's looking for. If he's mechanically inclined then that should take maintenance out of the picture.

In that case, I'd opt for the BMW or the Audi. Way different driving experience from the Lexus.

n1zm0
11-03-2008, 02:31 PM
IS300 is my next car, i was going to keep it stock but when i saw a family friends and what an aristo head and the Swift racing 2.75 turbo kit can pull out of that thing, i was sold

^Fuji, how slow is slow? lol i gotta deal with it stock for a good half a year

R-Audi
11-03-2008, 02:41 PM
I have a B5 S4, and havent had any major repairs in the past 2 years.. There are small maintenance items but thats expected.

My best advice would be to bring a Stage 3 S4 up fro the States... as upgrading the turbos is the best thing you can do for fun and relaiability. (Turbo replacement is a major repair)

blownz
11-03-2008, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Inzane
Reliability aside, my personal preferred order for those three would be:
Audi S4 > BMW 328i/330i > Lexus IS300
(based on overall desirability, driving enjoyment and performance)


Originally posted by Eleanor

In terms of reliability, it's the exact opposite :rofl:

Sometimes driving the most reliable car is just too damn boring. Camry and Corolla are probably the best cars out there reliability wise, but no enthusiast should ever want to own one.

I agree 100% with the order posted above. :thumbsup:

rc2002
11-03-2008, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by n1zm0
how slow is slow? lol i gotta deal with it stock for a good half a year

Try one out and see for yourself. Civics (the VTEC variety) feel zippier than the IS300.

The car is well put together but it's dated. Iron block, reflector based HID, poor traction control system (snow mode), the list goes on. The kicker is that it handles like a FWD car.

TorqueDog
11-03-2008, 04:30 PM
1. Audi S4

2. BMW 3-Series Coupe

...
...
...
...

277. Lada

278. Lexus IS300

279. Calgary Transit

280. Walk


I love my BMWs, but what enthusiast could honestly say that they'd rather have a run-of-the-mill 3-Series over one of the most exhilarating driver's cars to ever grace pavement, the Audi S4.

The BMW is the more stylish of the three, while the Audi has a nice reserved and understated look to it. The IS300 is a Lexus Camry, whooptie-doo. It's slow, and the interior sucks.

2002civic
11-03-2008, 04:36 PM
I love my bmw, never had any issues, but all of these are nice cars i considered before i bought my car

Isaiah
11-03-2008, 04:44 PM
I also have a B5 S4. I would say they're reliable but temperamental. Mine's stage 2.5 and, contrary to R-Audi, I would NOT recommend the K04 upgrade. Chipped with exaust you should be at ~335-360 WHP well tuned. The turbo upgrade, if already done, could have been totally bagged to shit and if one of the turbos goes you're looking at a minimum $3500 repair. I don't think it's worth it for the extra power.

Back to the original question; you'll probably get the best bang for buck out of the Audi or BMW but there's a reputation that goes along with being a BMW driver that your friend may not care to have. I'm not kidding. Not to mention the S4 has Quattro so should make a much better daily driver than the bimmer.

Forgot to mention that (in my opinion) the S4 has the most aesthetic potential. Dump a bit of money into it and you can make it look terrific.

sillysod
11-03-2008, 04:46 PM
Four rings of Glory....

Tell him to setup an account on VWVortex now....

TorqueDog
11-03-2008, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Isaiah
... but there's a reputation that goes along with being a BMW driver that your friend may not care to have. I'm not kidding.Anyone who buys a car based on that really doesn't appreciate what they're buying; they should just buy a Toyota and be done with it, they deserve it.

R-Audi
11-03-2008, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Isaiah
contrary to R-Audi, I would NOT recommend the K04 upgrade. Chipped with exaust you should be at ~335-360 WHP well tuned. The turbo upgrade, if already done, could have been totally bagged to shit and if one of the turbos goes you're looking at a minimum $3500 repair. I don't think it's worth it for the extra power.


Considering K04's are more reliable then K03's, I would take my chance on them anyday.. Besides being a 6-9 year old car.. mileage for most is getting up in the K03 dangerzone. 360whp on K03's is pushing it very hard..... most K04's get around 380-450hp

That being said.... Be weary of chipped S4's, or S4's with higher mileage.
I dirive my Stage 3 all year round.. and its been great. (And with my new clutch should run in the 12's easily. (Old one with zero launch ran 13.1@111)

86max
11-03-2008, 06:11 PM
Lexus is for old people and Audi is for geeks. Reliability shouldn't mean anything to a true car enthusiast, anyone who realizes that must know that it's not how well a car is built, it's all about how much you enjoy the drive. The 3 series is the only ultimate driving machine on that list, so it gets my vote:thumbsup:

You obviously care what others think, hence this poll, so you should just get the bmw and call it a day. There will be haters, but they're poor, dumb and jealous, so pay them no attention.

Team_Mclaren
11-03-2008, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by TorqueDog
1. Audi S4

2. BMW 3-Series Coupe

...
...
...
...

277. Lada

278. Lexus IS300

279. Calgary Transit

280. Walk


I love my BMWs, but what enthusiast could honestly say that they'd rather have a run-of-the-mill 3-Series over one of the most exhilarating driver's cars to ever grace pavement, the Audi S4.

The BMW is the more stylish of the three, while the Audi has a nice reserved and understated look to it. The IS300 is a Lexus Camry, whooptie-doo. It's slow, and the interior sucks.

thanks fanboy

IS300 = rwd, I6
camry = different engine, different drivetrain... different car...

The 323 is just as fucking slow as the IS300. It might has a better interior, since the IS300 interior looks like shit.

86max
11-03-2008, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Team_Mclaren

The 323 is just as fucking slow as the IS300. It might has a better interior, since the IS300 interior looks like shit.

hater

Fuji
11-03-2008, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by n1zm0
IS300 is my next car, i was going to keep it stock but when i saw a family friends and what an aristo head and the Swift racing 2.75 turbo kit can pull out of that thing, i was sold

^Fuji, how slow is slow? lol i gotta deal with it stock for a good half a year

It's goign to about as fast as a 330i of the same year. Which isn't too bad, but I usually like a car with a decent amount of HP lol

max_boost
11-03-2008, 07:23 PM
Warranty I would get the 330.

No warranty I would get the IS300.

max_boost
11-03-2008, 07:25 PM
S4 is in the list too? Damn nice car. Get that instead! Hopefully they don't break, I hear they are expensive!!!!

Team_Mclaren
11-03-2008, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by max_boost
$#@$#@$^$#%

Great advice Sam, just get all 3 cars!:rofl: :rofl: j/k

2000impreza
11-03-2008, 09:53 PM
i've daily drove an IS300 for the last 7 months. It is a bit slow but I have no complaints. The reliability has been great as the car has never let me down. One of the reasons I picked a lexus was for the reliability due to the job i had at the time. The IS300 fit the bill as one came up with all the options i was looking for. I do agree the car is a bit dated and may look to get into an IS350 when I decide to upgrade.

I did consider buying a BMW E46 330 or E90/92 330/335, however was quickly turned away with the fear having to deal with local dealerships. The BMW's drive a lot nicer but its too bad the local dealerships treat you like sh*t even before you buy the car. I can't imagine having to deal with the service side.

JRSC00LUDE
11-03-2008, 09:59 PM
Has he considered the sebring?

The_Rural_Juror
11-03-2008, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


Great advice Sam, just get all 3 cars!:rofl: :rofl: j/k

:rofl:

ShelbyMopar
11-03-2008, 10:45 PM
S4, no questions asked personally.

Isaiah
11-03-2008, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by 86max
Lexus is for old people and Audi is for geeks.

Pretty bold statement from a guy named 86max which I would assume is what you drive.

TorqueDog
11-03-2008, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Team_Mclaren
thanks fanboy

IS300 = rwd, I6
camry = different engine, different drivetrain... different car...

The 323 is just as fucking slow as the IS300. It might has a better interior, since the IS300 interior looks like shit. I'm a fanboy because I think the IS300 is a POS? I suggested the Audi over the BMW, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

No one said the 323i was even an option. 328ci or 330ci will both mop the floor with an IS300. No kidding the Camry is a different car than the IS300; doesn't make the IS300 any less bland and boring.

bigbadboss101
11-04-2008, 07:09 AM
I had a 2001.5 S4 and from the ones on your list I would take that over the 330 or IS300. Lexus is more reliable but look wise the other two are more stylish. S4 I say are more rare than the BMW 330. AWD, and all the torque is great.

rc2002
11-04-2008, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Fuji


It's goign to about as fast as a 330i of the same year. Which isn't too bad, but I usually like a car with a decent amount of HP lol

http://www.carforums.net/showthread.php?t=10251


If you compare horsepower numbers only, then the 330 and IS aren't too far apart. But if you actually had dyno plots there would be a much bigger difference.

From credible tests from major magazine comparos, the IS300 is about 0.5 seconds slower in the 1/4. That's significantly slower in my books. A 0-60 time of 7.6 seconds is quite sluggish too - the IS will get walked on by Maximas and Accords (V6) of the same year. Not an enthusiast's car in my books.

Boosted Gtir
11-04-2008, 11:02 AM
Im bias but would take the S4. Correct me if im wrong but I thought the S4 was pretty reliable just expensive to fix. I think some people are mixing up expensive to fix with poor reliability. Just my opinion tho...

E46..sTyLez
11-04-2008, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by richardchan2002


http://www.carforums.net/showthread.php?t=10251


If you compare horsepower numbers only, then the 330 and IS aren't too far apart. But if you actually had dyno plots there would be a much bigger difference.

From credible tests from major magazine comparos, the IS300 is about 0.5 seconds slower in the 1/4. That's significantly slower in my books. A 0-60 time of 7.6 seconds is quite sluggish too - the IS will get walked on by Maximas and Accords (V6) of the same year. Not an enthusiast's car in my books.

That's what I was going to say, the IS300 couldn't keep up with a stock 330ci..wouldn't even be a close race.

Stock 0-60 on an 01 330ci is 6.2 seconds if I remember correctly from when I was debating the same 3 cars, 2 years ago. I obviously went for the 330ci and I just added a few bolt-ons.

I would imagine my 330ci would be neck and neck with a B5 S4, mind you if the S4 had the same bolt-ons....different story.

funkedelic2
11-04-2008, 11:17 AM
I would say get the s4 over the IS300. If your going to get a 3 series just get the m3 over 330ci! Dont go for a 323, 325 ect. Their slow.

Casa
11-04-2008, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by funkedelic2
I would say get the s4 over the IS300. If your going to get a 3 series just get the m3 over 330ci! Dont go for a 323, 325 ect. Their slow.

too many horror stories of the S4. Its pretty unreliable from what we've read, turbo issues consistently, and to him the BMW's 330Ci 0-60 with a 6.1 seconds is pretty quick, so not getting an "M" is fine, although I know the M3 is better in so many aspects!
he drove the IS300, it felt "underpowered" and he wasn't impressed whatsoever. It handles okay, but he didn't feel it was half as nice as the 330ci. He found the steering felt sharpest in the 330ci, although the S4 came pretty close, but the S4 is the most easiest to be modded..if only the S4 was reliable1

cooperS
11-04-2008, 12:18 PM
it just only depends on how much $$$ you plan to spend

TorqueDog
11-04-2008, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Casa
He found the steering felt sharpest in the 330ci, although the S4 came pretty close, but the S4 is the most easiest to be modded..if only the S4 was reliable1 One thing BMWs have always impressed me with are the handling and steering feel; even if they weren't the fastest in a straight line, they sure felt confident through the twisties.

86max
11-04-2008, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Isaiah

Pretty bold statement from a guy named 86max which I would assume is what you drive.

Sorry, guess I wasn't being sarcastic enough.


Seriously though, I'd choose the S4.

Altezza
11-04-2008, 06:18 PM
Been rocking the IS300 for 6 years now. 0-60 for the 5MT is 6.8s. People have done 14.9 quarter-miles in showroom stock manual tranny IS300s, although rare. Most are in the low-mid 15s. Not a fast car, not a slow car either. 3rd gear on the highway can pull on a 330i. I've had no major problems with the car. In fact, I've spent over 1.5 years looking for a new car, and nothing really grabs my attention. In the mean time, I'm quite happy with the IS300.

If you go with the IS300, I'd suggest '02 or newer. The '02 standard equipment list is much nicer than the '01. LSD option started to disappear around '05-ish if that's important to you.

Aleks
11-04-2008, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Altezza
Been rocking the IS300 for 6 years now. 0-60 for the 5MT is 6.8s. People have done 14.9 quarter-miles in showroom stock manual tranny IS300s, although rare. Most are in the low-mid 15s. Not a fast car, not a slow car either. 3rd gear on the highway can pull on a 330i. I've had no major problems with the car. In fact, I've spent over 1.5 years looking for a new car, and nothing really grabs my attention. In the mean time, I'm quite happy with the IS300.

If you go with the IS300, I'd suggest '02 or newer. The '02 standard equipment list is much nicer than the '01. LSD option started to disappear around '05-ish if that's important to you.

I think what people are saying is the IS300 would be very slow compared to the turbo S4 in Calgary anyways.