Having Trouble Deciding What School To Go To

[mrcoolawesome]

If anyone can offer any advice or info, you would be helping me greatly and I will really appreciate this.

So the thing is I am interested greatly in computers but I can't decide whether to go to SAIT or UofC. I will be 21 come January and will be able to apply as an adult student which, from what I understand means the course requirements don't apply as much. If I am wrong about that would someone be so kind as to explain what an adult student is.

Anyhow, like I said I want to get into something such as computer engineering. Someone once told me that if one is interested in business like fields such as business, doctor, laywer, etc. then they should go to University but if you are interested more in the IT field then you should go to SAIT.

Another thing on my mind is if I were to graduate from SAIT versus UofC would my earning potential be as high, speaking of computer engineering. Also, if they were to be the same potential, there isn't much point in having a huge university student loan if the outcome is the same.

Well if anyone can answer any of these questions or offer any advice at all, please do so.

Thanks in advance.

[diamondedge]

Hope this helps.
Do you know if you want to take a degree that's more applied (2 years) vs. a more in-depth and theoretical degree (4 years) ?

The course listings on the respective sites may you insight as to what you'll be doing if you go into computer engg.

University Calender Description of Computer Engg:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/2008/what/fac/EN/program_details.htm#computer_engineering

SAIT Description:

http://www.sait.ca/pages/cometosait/academic/diplomas/acnt.shtml

Please take your time reading over the descriptions of the courses and their explanations, I think it'll help guide you toward SAIT or UofC.

[mrcoolawesome]

Thank you for the help. I didn't know one could obtain a 2-year degree from the U. That helped alot. As for the adult student idea, do you know what applies to them?

[ercchry]

Originally posted by mrcoolawesome
Thank you for the help. I didn't know one could obtain a 2-year degree from the U. That helped alot. As for the adult student idea, do you know what applies to them?

as a mature student attending sait i can say it means nothing. and after attending a university before i came to sait i can say it is way different... some times the structure at sait just drives me insane!

[PeterGTiR]

Technical schools like SAIT offer two year diplomas and four year applied degrees and Universities offer four year degrees. There's a little bit of difference as to what you learn, what you can achieve after you graduate and the respectability of the two.

Some two year diplomas will give you two years of credit towards a bachelors degree or an applied degree. SAIT's business administration diploma will give you two years credit towards their business administration applied degree or the University of Lethbridge bachelor of management.

There's a difference between a degree (generally four years of education) vs a diploma (two years of education).

[mrcoolawesome]

Originally posted by ercchry


as a mature student attending sait i can say it means nothing. and after attending a university before i came to sait i can say it is way different... some times the structure at sait just drives me insane!

So you liked the U better?

[diamondedge]

I forgot to mention.

The program at the U is 4 years.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by mrcoolawesome


So you liked the U better?

well... i dunno it is a toss up... i suck at humanities courses so uni was not fun since you have to take a lot of those courses in first year... that is all i like about sait though (more classes related to the field) 40 hours of class a week at sait is a hell of a lot more hours then you have to put in at uni too

[jwslam]

another thing is where you wanna work
a diploma from sait is probably only good in calgary. at most in alberta.
a bachelors from UC is universal

beware that getting into UC engg first year is general, meaning although you have absolutely zero interest in chemistry, solids/liquids/gases, statics and whatnot, you don't have a choice

however, for the past several years, zoo (electrical/comp/software) at UC is bare minimal to get into (~2.1 gpa in first year). By no means am i telling you to go in and put in minimal effort as if you look 5/6 years back, zoo was ranked highest at ~3.4+gpa

[mrcoolawesome]

Originally posted by jwslam
another thing is where you wanna work
a diploma from sait is probably only good in calgary. at most in alberta.
a bachelors from UC is universal

beware that getting into UC engg first year is general, meaning although you have absolutely zero interest in chemistry, solids/liquids/gases, statics and whatnot, you don't have a choice

however, for the past several years, zoo (electrical/comp/software) at UC is bare minimal to get into (~2.1 gpa in first year). By no means am i telling you to go in and put in minimal effort as if you look 5/6 years back, zoo was ranked highest at ~3.4+gpa

That is something I never thought of. It would be nice to know that I can get a job anywhere coming out of the U. I might like to move to NYC someday.

[adidas]

in 4 later

[flipstah]

U of C is boring, dull, dilapidated, and full of decent-looking women with the rare beauties standing out in CPSC or GLGY.

SAIT and MRC are new, hip, and they have the sexiest students around.

I say we got gypped in terms of the lookers around campus but if you want to focus and succeed, would you rather go to a school that'll force you to study even if you don't want to because it's soo fuckin' boring or be distracted, party, get STD's and fuck up finishing with a degree in repairing air conditioners?

I kid as I have much love for SAIT and MRC but you I envy you guys. :love:

Lucky bastards. In all seriousness though, UofC or MRC is great if you're all-around. If you just want to get your hands dirty, SAIT is the way to go.

[mrcoolawesome]

Originally posted by adidas
in 4 later
What?

[Mibz]

Originally posted by diamondedge
SAIT Description:

http://www.sait.ca/pages/cometosait/academic/diplomas/acnt.shtml
That program has been deprecated, this is the new IT program:
http://www.sait.ca/pages/cometosait/academic/diplomas/ait.shtml

[mrcoolawesome]

Originally posted by Mibz
That program has been deprecated, this is the new IT program:
http://www.sait.ca/pages/cometosait/academic/diplomas/ait.shtml
Are you taking this?

[Mibz]

Yes. I'm in the Network stream. It's great.

[gretz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwslam
[B]another thing is where you wanna work
a diploma from sait is probably only good in calgary. at most in alberta.

so not true

[hrdkore]

I don't think you want computer engineering... basically you end up doing software programming.. If you like programming then i suggest software engineering or computer science and u of c is a bit better imo. But if you're good, then who cares what school.

[ercchry]

i just reread the mature student section on sait's website and i guess im not a mature student.. just an older one haha. but it seems as long as you have been out of school for a year, are over 18 and have the marks for the required courses then that is all you need. sait also offers testing for most courses that are requirements, you need to get 65% on them i believe?

ps: this post is mainly for the guy that has been pm'ing me since his inbox is full

[lint]

Originally posted by hrdkore
But if you're good, then who cares what school.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by flipstah
If you just want to get your hands dirty, SAIT is the way to go.

Most of the technologies besides maybe chemical and petroleum (so computers, electrical, electronic, mechanical, and architectural) all work in offices, the only time I get dirty is site meetings with construction crews, and it is my boots and maybe the first 2" of pant leg, and that is if it is dirty outside.




OP: I decided to take electrical engineering at SAIT because most of the electrical engg's I knew then said that they are in the office all the time reviewing drawings, and some of them told me they wished they did the tech instead of the degree. Once your an engineer you can never go down to tech (field visits, client meetings, field work (usually onsite programming and consulting)) where as once your a tech, you can become a pseudo engineer by working hard or can go back to school for 3 years and become a P.Eng if you wish.


I am not so sure about the computer thing here, but I know that Lil_drunken_smurf took some computer thing at SAIT. You could ask him.

My uncle got his masters from the UofC and worked for Shell through IBM for 15 years or something. They laid everyone off one day and he became a manager of memory express for 6 years before getting on with the City of Calgary. So just because you have a more school doesn't mean your untouchable.


Either way will give you a good career, you just need to decide which way you want your career to go and how to get it.





Good luck

[ercchry]

Originally posted by The Cosworth



My uncle got his masters from the UofC and worked for Shell through IBM for 15 years or something. They laid everyone off one day and he became a manager of memory express for 6 years before getting on with the City of Calgary. So just because you have a more school doesn't mean your untouchable.



im going have to disagree a bit here... my old man had a similar thing happen with nortel, they sent him back to get his masters and when nortel came crashing down he was let go, but with the contacts he made in the masters course he was able to transition to O&G where he is now a consultant and way less stressed then he ever was at nortel

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by ercchry


im going have to disagree a bit here... my old man had a similar thing happen with nortel, they sent him back to get his masters and when nortel came crashing down he was let go, but with the contacts he made in the masters course he was able to transition to O&G where he is now a consultant and way less stressed then he ever was at nortel


Sorry, I didn’t mean for it to seem as if a masters (or whatever level) doesnt help.

Every case is different and if things slowed so much that I didn’t have a job then I would go back to school too. Just while I can still make contacts and money out in the real world I might as well be.

My point was supposed to be that having more school doesnt make you less susceptible to a slowdown than anyone else. Case in point, the amount of computer engineers working at memory express, westworld computers, etc. after the .com crash of the early 00's. The industry in Canada hasn't returned to those glory days even now. My point WASN'T supposed to be masters degree = unemployment which is the way I think you took it.

As someone already said in this thread it is about the school when you first come out, then after 2 to 4 years it is LESS about the school and MORE about how much of how little of a useless tit you are.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by The Cosworth




My point was supposed to be that having more school doesnt make you less susceptible to a slowdown than anyone else. Case in point, the amount of computer engineers working at memory express, westworld computers, etc. after the .com crash of the early 00's. The industry in Canada hasn't returned to those glory days even now.

i think it would help... it seems to really matter what letters you have after your name for versatility, if it market slows down a lot with a degree/diploma that is specialized in one field like sait's programs are geared to it could be harder to jump to a different field.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by ercchry


i think it would help... it seems to really matter what letters you have after your name for versatility, if it market slows down a lot with a degree/diploma that is specialized in one field like sait's programs are geared to it could be harder to jump to a different field.


well it appears then that we will never reconcile the issue. When trans-alta laid people off it was the 15 closest people to whoever answered the phone who got laid off. Didn’t seem to matter then and I still see it to this day.

Pay yes, the engineer I am training makes more money than me and I produce 100% more work (20 projects compared to his 9 (and for those of you going to argue his are bigger projects, my projects total 1.12 million, he is around 370,000), but there is a good chance he will get canned WAY before I do.

As I said, we will probably never reconcile the issue between us as it seems we have both seen VERY different things.

[ercchry]

yeah i guess it is just the household i grew up in haha... all about schooling. but really when that engineer gets laid off he will probably leave with a nice big package and will have a new job before that even runs out

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by ercchry
yeah i guess it is just the household i grew up in haha... all about schooling. but really when that engineer gets laid off he will probably leave with a nice big package and will have a new job before that even runs out

My parents are teachers so it isn't like I am a blue collar family

[ercchry]

Originally posted by The Cosworth


My parents are teachers so it isn't like I am a blue collar family

sorry i was not trying to hint that you were... but i mean my parents were INSANE about it when i was young.... originally i wanted to go to sait after high school but my dad refused to pay for post secondary if it wasn't a university.. so i tried that out and it was defiantly not for me... and now im at sait haha

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by ercchry


sorry i was not trying to hint that you were... but i mean my parents were INSANE about it when i was young.... originally i wanted to go to sait after high school but my dad refused to pay for post secondary if it wasn't a university.. so i tried that out and it was defiantly not for me... and now im at sait haha



ahhh... gotcha

My dad was a professional photographer for 8 years before he went back to university to teach. My parents said I had to do SOMETHING productive but it didn't have to be a University, just no ACAD :rofl:

No worries, I see what you meant. Not hard feelings

[mrcoolawesome]

Originally posted by ercchry
yeah i guess it is just the household i grew up in haha... all about schooling. but really when that engineer gets laid off he will probably leave with a nice big package and will have a new job before that even runs out
So then it seems like a degree is the way to go. Bottom line after reviewing the comments in this thread I am conviced degree>diploma correct me if I'm wrong.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by mrcoolawesome

So then it seems like a degree is the way to go. Bottom line after reviewing the comments in this thread I am conviced degree>diploma correct me if I'm wrong.

wrong (IMO anyways)



They are usually two totally different jobs. You dont hire a technologist for an engineers job and you dont hire an engineer for a technologists job.


It would be like saying nurse<doctor. They have different jobs and different roles.

[ercchry]

but engineers dont have to stay as engineers... they have the letters behind there name and that is what matters for senior positions imo

another example.... my mom was working for a smaller O&G company and she was let go for someone more junior (ie. cheaper) so she got a huge package when she left and is after less then a month she has a job in a completely different field and has that package on top of that... she could have taken a 6 month holiday and still had at least the same income... but she already did that last year when she left her other job (and that was a different field too)

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by ercchry
but engineers dont have to stay as engineers... they have the letters behind there name and that is what matters for senior positions imo
At least 5 or 6 Technologists in my industry (TransAlta, AltaLink, FortisAb) are directors or above. But that also goes for linemen as well as he is the Area Manger. Yes engineers probably have a better chance of getting up there just because of the letters in their name. (The CEO and COO are P.Eng's)



Just saying that Technologists are not USUALLY wannabe Engineers (there are exceptions :nut: ). They typically have VERY different jobs. The ONLY reason I train engineers is because when they go into Standards (after they get their P.Eng) and other areas they better have a damned good idea of what Operations is doing otherwise their ISO and APPEGA approved standards are useless to us.

As I have suggested to the OP before, he better look at what he wants to do in his career, and figure out if technologists or engineers (or even technicians or field staff) are doing that work. That would allow him to do what he wants to do.




And the cross industry argument, I see what you mean but again I am not sure if it is as bad as you say. When I graduated school I had an interview with the Air Force working in Cold Lake on fighter jets, I currently work in Utilities, lots of guys I know went into Oil and Gas, many have gone to consult for construction companies arranging whatever needs done, some are project managers already, one or two I know are managers of departments, some are drafters, some have gone to doing field work, some are electricians now, some are lineman. It is a different route all together than an engineer would take. You would rarely see a technologist taking an MBA (I am speaking about an executive one)

(tongue in cheek here) we do have letters behind our name too. They go: TT, CET, RET, RPT (Eng.)

[Penis McNickels]

Originally posted by The Cosworth


(tongue in cheek here) we do have letters behind our name too. They go: TT, CET, RET, RPT (Eng.)

Don't forget my favourite, R.Tard.

[ercchry]

well i hope you are right... haha i only ever hear the uni route at home... would this apply to me after i am done EDDT at sait? (engineering design and drafting technology)

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by ercchry
well i hope you are right... haha i only ever hear the uni route at home... would this apply to me after i am done EDDT at sait? (engineering design and drafting technology)


Little different but yes. I know a few EDDT's who work at my company. Lots who work in standards drafting what the engineers come up with (they typically cant draw as nice as the drafters, I know I rely on mine a lot). You can do Utilities (Substation drafting, standards, line drafting, etc). Oil and Gas (piping, heat trace, electrical, mechanical).

Honestly if you like to draft there is a need for drafters in almost any industry that designs and builds something. As for advancement, again it is like the technologist/engineer argument, it is a totally different route. You will probably never design or be a project manager, but if you work somewhere that needs a manager for the department you can go into management that way, you can learn a specific piece of design software and be a specialist, consult... whatever.

[Ebon]

Depends on what you want to do really. I cant really say anything about computer sciences or engineering and every career path is different. I'd probably go with saying having a university tends to lead more to planning, analysis, design (for business anyways) and sait tends to lean towards the technical aspects (Hence it being being called a technical degree). That not to say going to sait means you cant get into the analysis but will likely have a harder time convincing the firm hiring you that you can do that.

In business, a sait degree will reach a plateau in advancement before someone with a bachelors degree unless you have major connections or are really innovative in what you do and therefore obvious upper/mid management material. I know a lot of sait grads who end up at the university anyways to finish a bachelors after working for 4-5 years.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by Ebon
Depends on what you want to do really. I cant really say anything about computer sciences or engineering and every career path is different. I'd probably go with saying having a university tends to lead more to planning, analysis, design (for business anyways) and sait tends to lean towards the technical aspects (Hence it being being called a technical degree). That not to say going to sait means you cant get into the analysis but will likely have a harder time convincing the firm hiring you that you can do that.

In business, a sait degree will reach a plateau in advancement before someone with a bachelors degree unless you have major connections or are really innovative in what you do and therefore obvious upper/mid management material. I know a lot of sait grads who end up at the university anyways to finish a bachelors after working for 4-5 years.


dead on, hence why the engineering programs kind of skew the whole image of sait. Engineering is a mix of the two so most people dont know where the technologists sit (or what they stand for)

Good analogy

[flipstah]

Originally posted by The Cosworth


I think you misinterpreted my saying. By "getting your hands dirty," I mean you do practical work. Only way to do that is by using your hands. Other than internships and co-ops, university kids just read books and move test tubes around. SAIT kids actually do some work related to their dream jobs.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by flipstah


I think you misinterpreted my saying. By &quot;getting your hands dirty,&quot; I mean you do practical work. Only way to do that is by using your hands. Other than internships and co-ops, university kids just read books and move test tubes around. SAIT kids actually do some work related to their dream jobs.

your right I did misinterpret that.

My bad :banghead:

[D. Dub]

98% of the time more education is better in the long run

[flipstah]

Originally posted by The Cosworth


your right I did misinterpret that.

My bad :banghead:

That's cool :) Happens to the best of us.


Originally posted by D. Dub
98% of the time more education is better in the long run

Isn't it 100% of the time? I mean despite the differences in the three institutions, they're still expanding their minds nevertheless. And after getting your degree or diploma, aren't you still educating yourself by learning new things in the 'real world'?

And as for me, I may take the advice of a co-worker of mine which is to prolong my exit from the U, grad school and all that and clutch on till the economy is back in action!

[Ebon]

Originally posted by flipstah


That's cool :) Happens to the best of us.



Isn't it 100% of the time? I mean despite the differences in the three institutions, they're still expanding their minds nevertheless. And after getting your degree or diploma, aren't you still educating yourself by learning new things in the 'real world'?

And as for me, I may take the advice of a co-worker of mine which is to prolong my exit from the U, grad school and all that and clutch on till the economy is back in action! Thats what im doing. Luckily im only a second year and i can take co-op extend it 1 more year encase the economy is still in the shit 2-3 years from now.

[AG_Styles]

Originally posted by flipstah

Other than internships and co-ops, university kids just read books and move test tubes around. SAIT kids actually do some work related to their dream jobs.

Major generalization. Depends on the major and how really motivated the individual is in doing what he/she wants to do. Everything I've done in undergrad gave me a hands on experience in my dream job. It helps when a pro-active approach is taken in guiding projects and assignments to doing something directly or indirectly related to your dream job.

As an example, for my current position, I should've gone to ACAD. But instead I went to UofC. An ACAD "degree" would've given me a bit more training and made me a bit more specialized in my field upon graduation. However, i would've been only limited to that specific field. The university degree opens up more doors due to the wider range of fields I'm able to adapt to. With the experience gained from my UofC program, I've been able to work in diverse industries such as O&G and Gaming with my degree whereas the ACAD route would've restricted my mobility. The degree also started me at a job position 3 steps ahead of a diploma candidate.

Sure you can also be laid off if you have a degree, but with the mobility the degree offers, coupled with a good portfolio, should have no problems finding a new job if the case should arise.

[mrcoolawesome]

So then could I obtain a diploma from SAIT then go to the U for 2 years and obtain the degree or would I have to go for the full 4 years?

[Ebon]

Originally posted by mrcoolawesome
So then could I obtain a diploma from SAIT then go to the U for 2 years and obtain the degree or would I have to go for the full 4 years? You can do it like that but you have to make sure you meet the universities requirements and making sure the university will give you credit for the classes you took. Also you run the risk of there being a requirements change, since at the university your graduation requirements are based on the year you enter.

[kaput]

.

[mrcoolawesome]

Originally posted by kaput
My recommendation would be go to sait for something you think you will enjoy and work in that field for a year or two to be sure its right for you. THEN go spend the other two years upgrading at a university. Upgrading and even changing careers has become the norm these days, there are lots of 'mature' and even downright old people in classes lately.
That's true, in fact most people I know have switched courses or are thinking about switching.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by mrcoolawesome
So then could I obtain a diploma from SAIT then go to the U for 2 years and obtain the degree or would I have to go for the full 4 years?

Yes you can, but it isn't always to the best universities.

Petroleum you have to do down to the US.

Electrical, mechanical, etc are both able to go to UVic and Lakehead university


These two are pretty much straight into 3rd year (you have to take matrix calculus and thermodynamics)


UofA you go into 2nd year. UofC you get pretty much nothing.



Originally posted by Ebon
You can do it like that but you have to make sure you meet the universities requirements and making sure the university will give you credit for the classes you took. Also you run the risk of there being a requirements change, since at the university your graduation requirements are based on the year you enter.

True, but I guess that would be the same with ANY school you do and taking more later.

[wiggaplz]

SAIT's diploma's really aren't what they are cracked up to be.

The drafting and eng. tech, instrumentation departments are pretty much guaranteed jobs after school, but other then that there is a lot of bogus diploma's. SAIT's main 'schtick' is like 95% of people getting employment after school.

That's a crock of shit, IMO. I know plenty of grads who are working at the YMCA for 13 buck's an hour.

If i was OP, i'd go to MRC or U of C. If you are not academically super gifted and have been out of school for a while, i'd probably go to MRC. If you are 'smarter' then the average dude, which most people usually know if they are or aren't, then i'd go to U of C.....overall you are around smarter people and you will be more focused to succeed.

But yeah....sorry for the generalizations about SAIT people. heh.

[Spoons]

Um well straight forward, you go to SAIT you are not an engineer. Don't try to parade around like you are at SAIT.

People will disagree but in general you will go farther with a degree... it's pretty simple on why so I won't explain.

Just go to U of C...