The Beyond 2009 F1 Season Thread

[rage2]

2009, here we come!

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1091/27262williamsf12009gb3.jpg

http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/em5bfxpi1.jpg

The 2009 cars are gonna look kinda silly :).

The sides is still 2008 spec, 2009 spec should look a lot simpler.

Here's a look at the F2009 differences.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/F1FerrariFan/ferrari09zt1.jpg

[buh_buh]

I actually don't mind that Williams shot, but the Ferrari looks bad. Maybe because it has no livery on it. But once they put on slicks, it'll look better too. That front wing is WIIIDE.

[5000Audi]

interesting differance on the car... i thought they always ran slicks?? and only not if it was raining?

[buh_buh]

They've been on grooved tires since '98.

[5000Audi]

ohh gotcha... didnt even notice haha

[/////AMG]

The '09 cars will be :barf:

[rage2]

I think the new front wings are gonna be brutal for 1st lap carnage haha.

[mikemechanic]

Man that rear wing looks wierd, just like they were in the 80's. Are slicks back for sure as I thought I read it was still up in the air?

Rage is right, those front wings will be all over the track until they spread out after a lap or two.

Nice to see all those winglets and spoilers off the side go though.

Hopefully Montreal returns and I will get to see them in person.

Mike

[H4LFY2nR]

^ Without all the upperbody aero they remind me of any other formula series.......They might as well pass out a spec chassis. I won't be surprised if the FIA eventually forces a spec engine on them :nut:

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by mikemechanic

Hopefully Montreal returns and I will get to see them in person.



Apparently, all hope is lost for next year...

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44618

which is a crying shame really... hopefully they get some sort of North American date for 2010.

[ryanallan]

Senna will be testing with Honda tomorrow.
I hope he gets a race seat for 09' !

Should be some interesting pics from the session, apparently they will be using a modified 08' car.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by ryanallan
Senna will be testing with Honda tomorrow.
I hope he gets a race seat for 09' !
I hope not... and I'm a Honda fan.
I don't think Senna's a horrible driver, but I have a feeling he's on a similar or lesser skill level than Piquet. He was on a strong team, and didn't amaze me in any of his gp2 drives this year. If his name wasn't Senna, he wouldn't be getting as much press as he is. But he doesn't have much experience in a race car, so there's still room to improve and his results have been pretty good for someone who hasn't been racing that long. But I would love to see a Senna back in Honda, just for reminiscence sake.

With everyone unveiling brand new cars for this year because of the new regulations, they'll need as much good feedback on the car as possible, and Barrichello's been around, and knows how a good car should feel like, and obviously has the experience to give good feedback for the engineers to help them make the car better. Honda needs to focus on building a better car this year, not just sign a big name, although Alonso couldn't have hurt the team.

[rage2]

Barachello needs to retire and write his book...

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081113100740.shtml

[Mikko]

They won't look silly. Just think of how weird/absurd the shape is and has been since forever anyway, it's just one's associations with something. I.e. it will 'grow on you'. Almost anything can be made to seem cool with enough associations for it (advertising/sponsorship/exposure).

I recently read up on the new car and the regulations. The thing was that using some one turn as example, the 2008 car would need to be 4 seconds faster per lap to overtake by that turn if no one makes any mistakes. That's not very good for overtaking, which is what the public wants more of. They predict the 2009 car will just need to be 2 seconds per lap faster to get by the car in front of it.

The idea is to lower the downforce and the dependance on it and raise the mechanical grip instead. Ecclestone/mosley FIA guys think it'll be a 50% cut compared to the 2008 model, but insiders think it'll just be about 25% once the genius engineers are done working on it.

The raised rear wing stuff makes the after flow much less turbolent and makes it easier to follow in the wake without losing grip.

The front wing is larger presumably to deal with following in the wake of a car in front.

The front wing is also adjustable from the steering wheel knobs - two adjustments can be made per lap. This too is intended to be used when following close to a car and trying to overtake, so you don't understeer in high speed bends.

The new slick tyres make the car turn better, obviously, and leads to higher grip on the front tires as a result (you mostly need grip on the fronts for turning obviously as they're the only ones turning the car). As such, the teams want to move the weight distribution to the front of the car. KERS won't be placed up front and will make this difficult.

As for KERS.. seems very mysterious and hard to predict. It's supposedly optional for 2009 but most teams think they have to use them to win races. But development isn't going very well. They are a device with notable weight (maybe 30kg?) that can give a boost of perhaps 50ish hp now and then. If stuff works out.

[rage2]

Holy shit Mikko, it's been years! How have you been? Nice to see ya back here!

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mikko
As for KERS.. seems very mysterious and hard to predict. It's supposedly optional for 2009 but most teams think they have to use them to win races. But development isn't going very well. They are a device with notable weight (maybe 30kg?) that can give a boost of perhaps 50ish hp now and then. If stuff works out.
The biggest problem with KERS right now is how they'll effectively use it while maintaining good weight distribution. With the new aero rules and slick tires, teams are predicting a more forward weight distribution for a competitive package. With KERS adding 30kg to the rear they'll have a lot less ballast available to shift the weight forward. Some teams such as Toyota are planning NOT to use KERS because they believe the better weight distro will get more time than the 0.3s/lap KERS will provide.

The team that solves this huge problem, KERS with optimal weight distro, will dominate the field.

Williams is using a 100,000+rpm flywheel energy storage system, which supposedly is lighter and more consistent than using battery storage. If that's the case, we may see Williams up top again.

[buh_buh]

slicks are looking sexy!

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/picture_free.php/dir/2008novtest1/image/XPB_281246_HiRes.jpg-2

Senna 6 seconds off the pace in an 08 spec car I believe.

[Mikko]

Holy shit Mikko, it's been years! How have you been? Nice to see ya back here!
It's been very long. But because I knew some people (I don't talk to a single one of them anymore though) who frequent this forum, and I remember the drama/attitudes and other things, I've come back to read maybe every 1½ years. Now I felt like replying.

Life has been unkind to me to say the least. Not super-bad but compared to most out there. :( I hope I can turn it around.

Could you do me a favour and check when I made my very first post here? My memory is fuzzy and I'm dead tired at the moment. And you probably know your way around the system well too.


Williams is using a 100,000+rpm flywheel energy storage system, which supposedly is lighter and more consistent than using battery storage. If that's the case, we may see Williams up top again.
I heard something about flywheels too, which seems absolutely crazy. 100k+ rpms. How the hell do you 'tap into' that energy afterwards? It's beyond me how it works. But it sure is fascinating. It's great that F1 always changes. One of the least static motorsports out there.

I've only recently become hooked on circuit racing and F1 (touring/GT cars are tons of fun too). Before, I was just interested in the most technical tracks/driving which was rally racing. Finally discovered the fun in having a less advanced/challenging place to race on, but having tons of people involved instead. Still don't care for oval racing however..


slicks are looking sexy!
Senna 6 seconds off the pace in an 08 spec car I believe.
That car doesn't look strange or bad at all does it? :) It grew on me in about 1 second. It's nice to see slicks back. There's something about them that says 'hardcore'.

When they say off the pace, I wonder if that's compared to the last Honda or the lead car. Also that's Senna's first in a F1 car, which is very undeveloped as of yet I'm sure (might be heavy with KERS without solving the new slicks/weight distribution issues, bla bla).

[buh_buh]

I actually like the looks of these cars from certain angles. But from some angles I really don't like it. The BMW I posted I actually like. Direct side view looks good too.
Senna 6 seconds off the pace is to the first place Toro Rosso driven by Sato :eek: He also only did 16 laps.
Still over 5 seconds off Wurz in a Honda, but I have no idea whose on slicks and or grooved tires or '08 or '09 wings. I do believe Senna is on a complete '08 setup. Another notable is Loeb who fared pretty well in his first real f1 test.

1. T. Sato Toro Rosso Toro Rosso STR3 1:20.763 78 pit
2. S. Buemi Toro Rosso Toro Rosso STR3 1:21.071 +0.308 76 pit
3. A. Wurz Honda RA108 1:21.198 +0.435 51 pit
4. P. de la Rosa de la Rosa McLaren MP4-23 1:21.417 +0.654 38 pit
5. G. Paffett McLaren MP4-23 1:22.235 +1.472 47 pit
6. R. Kubica BMW Sauber BMW Sauber F1.08 1:22.899 +2.136 36 pit
7. N. Piquet Jr. N. Piquet Jr. Renault R28 1:23.018 +2.255 65 pit
8. L. Badoer Ferrari F2008K 1:23.515 +2.752 50
9. N. Hülkenberg N. Hülkenberg Williams FW30 1:23.608 +2.845 75 pit
10. S. Loeb Red Bull Racing Red Bull Racing RB4 1:23.617 +2.854 63 pit
11. C. Klien BMW Sauber BMW Sauber F1.08 1:23.685 +2.922 25 pit
12. A. Sutil Force India Force India VJM-01 1:23.852 +3.089 60 pit
13. M. Gene Ferrari F2008K 1:24.521 +3.758 12 pit
14. V. Liuzzi Force India Force India VJM-01 1:24.530 +3.767 53 pit
15. G. van der Garde van der Garde Renault R28 1:24.903 +4.140 27 pit
16. L. Di Grassi Di Grassi Honda RA108 1:25.512 +4.749 48 pit
17. B. Senna B. Senna Honda RA108 1:26.638 +5.875 16 pit

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mikko
Could you do me a favour and check when I made my very first post here? My memory is fuzzy and I'm dead tired at the moment. And you probably know your way around the system well too.
Your first post: http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=78232#post78232


Originally posted by Mikko
I heard something about flywheels too, which seems absolutely crazy. 100k+ rpms. How the hell do you 'tap into' that energy afterwards? It's beyond me how it works. But it sure is fascinating. It's great that F1 always changes. One of the least static motorsports out there.
From what I read, it's a flywheel with magnets attached to it, so in "charge" mode the magnets polarity is flipped so energy going to it increases the flywheel's speed. When it's time to use the power, the magnet's polarity reverses, and it goes into discharge mode, so it begins to release power back the other way. It's just a lightweight method of storing electrical energy without a battery.


Originally posted by buh_buh
Senna 6 seconds off the pace is to the first place Toro Rosso driven by Sato :eek: He also only did 16 laps.
Still over 5 seconds off Wurz in a Honda, but I have no idea whose on slicks and or grooved tires or '08 or '09 wings. I do believe Senna is on a complete '08 setup. Another notable is Loeb who fared pretty well in his first real f1 test.
I believe all the teams still using the '08 spec cars have already trimmed the downforce level to match the '09 cars, thus a huge drop in pace for everyone.

Also, most first time testers take at least a few days to get used to the level of downforce and grip in F1 cars. When Hamilton first tested, he was way off the pace too, which is why McLaren was debating between him, Paffett and De La Rosa for '07. We all know how that turned out :).

[buh_buh]

Just wanted to post up another pic of the slicks. This is Loeb with the '08 bodywork.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder/2008/081117/z1226917818.jpg

I don't know if its just BMW, but these new squarish front wings look strange to me.

http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires/2008/tests119/diapo_141.jpg

[rage2]

Yea, that does look awful strange. But it's BMW, they always seem to be able to produce an ugly looking car regardless of regulations.

I'm glad slicks are back tho, looks so much more proper instead of those stupid grooves in the tires!

[rage2]

From some angles, it looks not too bad...

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2339/lh0y01074bg0.jpg

But from other angles... :barf:

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/115689.jpg

Snow plow ftw.

[buh_buh]

I dont mind this view, although the car looks so basic. Kind of like a Formula BMW car, except formula bmw cars have nicer noses.

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/ibncilekmsybaethncj.jpg

[ryanallan]

Interesting day today . Senna was faster than I thought he would have been for his fist ever F1 drive.
One second quicker then Lucas di Grassi !
The next two days should show whos more comfortable with the car though.

I found this interesting aswel. Looks like ballast or something.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6735/f12008tesxp5457copyda0.jpg

[buh_buh]

First day of first test. Senna ran in the afternoon and di Grassi ran in the morning. Difficult to compare times since the track is much more green in the morning, but still impressive considering di Grassi's had some time in a f1 car before.

[DJ Lazy]

S. Loeb = Sebatian Loeb (aka Rally Driver???) is this correct?

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy
S. Loeb = Sebatian Loeb (aka Rally Driver???) is this correct?
correct

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by rage2
Yea, that does look awful strange. But it's BMW, they always seem to be able to produce an ugly looking car regardless of regulations.

I'm glad slicks are back tho, looks so much more proper instead of those stupid grooves in the tires!


Interesting how the cars evolve.

http://formulaoneseasons.blogspot.com/2008/05/formula-1-evolution-in-photos.html

[buh_buh]

Barcelona day 2 test times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:19.751 70
2. Sato Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.017 79
3. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.034 48
4. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.223 99
5. Paffett McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.340 31
6. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:21.521 76
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.525 113
8. Button Honda (B) 1:21.770 110
9. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.073 58
10. di Grassi Honda (B) 1:22.283 110
11. Piquet Renault (B) 1:22.348 85
12. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:22.425 127
13. Gene Ferrari (B) 1:22.772 31
14. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.945 81
15. van der Garde Renault (B) 1:23.250 37
16. de la Rosa Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:23.499 86

Sato impressive again. Looks like he may be back in F1 in '09.

[Team_Mclaren]

Martin Brundle is going to BBC to continue commentating! woohoo

[ryanallan]

Ferrari KERS system
I wonder whats under the hump that needs cooling and has high voltage stickers ?

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4230/f12008tesxp5616lm8.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6815/f12008tesxp5613vt1.jpg

[DJ Lazy]

Those right side mirrors look like they would be completely useless with that huge hump there... (not that they are all that useful to begin with):rofl:

Looks like the F2008 wing too...

[buh_buh]

1. S. Vettel Red Bull Racing RB4 1:19.295 75 pit
2. S. Bourdais Toro Rosso STR3 1:19.839 +0.544 122 pit
3. S. Buemi Toro Rosso STR3 1:20.154 +0.859 115 pit
4. G. Paffett McLaren MP4-23K 1:21.140 +1.845 81 pit
5. J. Button Honda RA108 1:21.387 +2.092 94 pit
6. C. Klien BMW Sauber F1.08 1:21.534 +2.239 88 pit
7. N. Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.08 1:21.592 +2.297 105 pit
8. B. Senna Honda RA108 1:21.676 +2.381 106 pit
9. N. Piquet Jr. Renault R28 1:22.148 +2.853 94 pit
10. N. Hülkenberg Williams FW30 1:22.410 +3.115 51 pit
11. L. Badoer Ferrari F2008K 1:22.866 +3.571 120 pit
12. G. Fisichella Force India VJM-01 1:23.068 +3.773 92 pit
13. P. de la Rosa Force India VJM-01 1:23.103 +3.808 88 pit

Senna's getting quicker for just his first test. Track conditions probably better today than yesterday, hence the quicker times overall by about half a second, but only 3/10ths off Button, while Di Grassi half a second off Button. Too bad Rubens isn't doing any head to head testing with Di Grassi and Senna, although he and Button have been pretty close all year.

Toro Rosso not looking bad either. I'm hoping for a Sato-Bourdais team this year, but I think Buemi might get it over Bourdais. Sato's been quick.

[rage2]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Senna's getting quicker for just his first test. Track conditions probably better today than yesterday, hence the quicker times overall by about half a second, but only 3/10ths off Button, while Di Grassi half a second off Button.

Originally posted by rage2
Also, most first time testers take at least a few days to get used to the level of downforce and grip in F1 cars. When Hamilton first tested, he was way off the pace too, which is why McLaren was debating between him, Paffett and De La Rosa for '07. We all know how that turned out :).
hehe

[buh_buh]

Well I knew he'd improve as the test went on. His times were dropping throughout the day, and he'll probably continue to improve if he starts doing more testing. I'm just surprised he was 2/10ths quicker than Di Grassi. I wonder if they were driving the same spec car was Button.

[Roaring G60]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy
Those right side mirrors look like they would be completely useless with that huge hump there... (not that they are all that useful to begin with):rofl:

Looks like the F2008 wing too...

Being as it is a F2008 car which is being used as a test mule for the KERS (mostly likely a capacitor based system)


On another note the front wing's are massively more efficient(lower and wider) and should allow a following driver to close the gap. But i agree that they will be scattered in turn one, for the first couple races at least.

Also I wonder when the manufacturers are gonna stand up to Berni and tell him they want a race in there largest/larger markets??

[rage2]

Honestly, if the manufacturers REALLY wanted a North American round that badly, they would've sponsored the Canadian event and bridged the 30m gap between what Quebec wants to pay and what Bernie wants to charge. $30m for a few years is cheap.

The reason why Bernie wants to charge Canada that much more is because it's a huge yearly expense for 1 flyaway race. Something like $10m in shipping costs just for the weekend.

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Well I knew he'd improve as the test went on. His times were dropping throughout the day, and he'll probably continue to improve if he starts doing more testing. I'm just surprised he was 2/10ths quicker than Di Grassi. I wonder if they were driving the same spec car was Button.

Based on the pictures i've seen, Senna's and Di Grassi's car looks very close to Button's aerodynamics wise... They both have the 2009 spec front wing.

Senna
http://images.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/51396_2.jpg

Button
http://images.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/51394_2.jpg

De Grassi
http://images.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/51365_2.jpg

[rage2]

Loads of pics from the Barcelona test:

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/vdvhaykqgmoyrxqjpzf.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/kcohngzjciflrozclfb.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/gcndslrdfmblntmflsu.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/mazoyktzwzvjlzbcrex.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/bgfhagzfzfbhbudkqfl.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/ltslnqjprhyexatzsut.jpg

http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/el8sacsx15.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v369/182/21/1186677758/n1186677758_30202852_7046.jpg

Comparison:

BMW:
http://www.formula1.com/photos/597x478/manual/deh0819no04.jpg

Williams:
http://www.formula1.com/photos/597x478/manual/deh0819no06.jpg

Honda:
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/115889.jpg

WTF is this in the Honda wheel?

http://img2.vpx.pl/up/20081119/diapo108ju4.jpg

McLaren KERS setup. The only one without a hump.

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/abjcislrknkqwpiblrt.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/jehwmflxdwyrdfcfunt.jpg

http://www.racefreaks.nl/images/550/gjeshgzhizbrkmpvxnc.jpg

[rage2]

Testing vids. I'll have to admit, the cars look a little better in vids than in pics.

BpNW2QfrJl0

uJYmf9mlzyI

2nd video rocks, those crazy Germans made a KITT/David Hasselhoff/Turbo Boost reference when talking about KERS :rofl:.

[Roaring G60]

I would tend to believe that the devices inside the Honda's wheel are part of the KERS system. I think it's quite amazing how these teams are tackling the storage and delivery of such large quantities of energy. Defiantly an engineering task worthy of F1

[H4LFY2nR]

Those things in the Honda wheels are wheel force sensors to measure the forces in the wheel and the contact patch.

[Dave P]

I cant wait for the announcement that Sato is taking Borgays place on Toro Rosso!!!!!!

[TACO.VIDAL]

F1 driver Webber seriously hurt

Associated Press

November 22, 2008 at 12:59 AM EST

HOBART, Australia — Formula One driver Mark Webber was seriously hurt after being hit by a car during a charity multi-sport race, police said.

Webber, who drives for F1's Red Bull team, was cycling along a road near Port Arthur in the southeast of the island state of Tasmania when he and a four-wheel drive vehicle collided, Tasmania Police Sgt. Jon Ford said.

Ford said the Australian driver was competing in his own charity event, the Mark Webber Pure Tasmania Challenge, a 280-kilometre challenge using mountain bikes, kayaks and trekking, when the accident happened.

"As a result of the collision, the rider, Mark Webber, suffered serious but non-life threatening injuries," Ford said. "He was attended at the scene by paramedics attached to the event before being airlifted to the Royal Hobart Hospital."

A Royal Hobart nursing supervisor said Webber had been transferred to Hobart Private Hospital, where a person who answered the telephone said she had been told to make no comment on Webber's condition and would not identify herself.

Event director Geoff Donohue said he could not confirm reports that Webber had suffered multiple arm and leg fractures until doctors had a chance to properly diagnose the Australian driver.

"It would appear he's suffered a fractured leg but until doctors confirm the extent of Mark's injuries, we won't know for sure — it's still early days," Donohue told Australian Associated Press.

Ford said the event was being raced on open public roads and it was not known whether the stage along that road was cordoned off specifically for the racers.

The challenge, first staged in 2003, is scheduled to end Sunday in Hobart.

Red Bull has already begun its testing program ahead of the 2009 F1 season, but Saturday's accident is likely to have a major impact on Webber's preparation for the season, which begins in March.

[rage2]

Brutal timing for Webber! Hope it's not too serious... and we wonder why most teams won't allow their drivers to do anything remotely dangerous outside of F1.

edit - looks like a broken right leg, it's been operated on and pins inserted. 8-12 weeks for recovery. He's officially out of the Race of Champions next month.

[rage2]

Since there are so many Bruno Senna comparisons with his late uncle, here's an old school clip of Ayrton Senna's first F1 test...

-xwZCqHpX7Q

He managed to be quicker than any other driver in the same car in his first 3 tests with 3 different teams. Talk about domination!

[ryanallan]

ahh pre accident / hair loss Frank Williams .

I was reading about how he got the Albilad sponsorship. Albilad being a Sudi prince's private trading company.
Apparently a this prince's son was staying in London. Frank knew the son was into motorsports so he parked his F1 car outside the son's house one morning. The son loved the car and the next day Williams had an Albilad deal.

I dont think Burno is as good as Ayrton was, if he was he would have been testing 7 years ago and not entering F1 at 25. But as Honda has implied, even if Rubins is quicker, Bruno has great marketing appeal .

[rage2]

The only reason Bruno is "behind" in age is because after Ayrton's death, his family did not allow him to race at all. He just started racing again around 02 if I remember right, after driving Ayrton's old F1 car around a track.

Williams had some interesting middle eastern sponsors back in the day...

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,134714,00.jpg

[DJ Lazy]

^^ Bin Laden... :rofl: :rofl:

[rage2]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy
^^ Bin Laden... :rofl: :rofl:
Yep, that's the Saudi Bin Laden Group that sponsored Williams... company founded by Osama's dad.

[randedge]

Originally posted by rage2
Since there are so many Bruno Senna comparisons with his late uncle, here's an old school clip of Ayrton Senna's first F1 test...

-xwZCqHpX7Q


So awesome how much more slip angles they drove back then. Must be because current designs are far twitchier, if you ever get crossed up, you're losing time.

Back then some drift is actually the way to drive, it seems.

Notice in1:42 / 1:46 how he hangs the ass out a bit.

[rage2]

Originally posted by randedge
So awesome how much more slip angles they drove back then. Must be because current designs are far twitchier, if you ever get crossed up, you're losing time.

Back then some drift is actually the way to drive, it seems.

Notice in1:42 / 1:46 how he hangs the ass out a bit.
Slicks will bring back a lot of the low speed slip angles, we lost a lot of that due to the grooved tires. At higher speeds, the old school cars were a lot less aero sensitive... with current cars you literally lose 50% downforce once you past a certain angle and a slide all of a sudden turns into an uncontrollable spin.

[Dave P]

Ok, i have figured it out. In order for Sato to bump Bourdais (aka Bourgay) out of his seat, he will legally have to change his name to Sebastien. Mateschitz sure seems horny for Sebastian's haha

Sebastien Vettel

Sebastien Bourdais

Now just mentioned as a for sure seat Sebastien Buemi


Sebastien Sato??????????????



GO SATO!!

GO SUPER BEST FRIENDS!!!

[buh_buh]

Don't forget Sebastien Loeb

[Dave P]

good call. i think we are on to something haha. A toro rosso work in the making.

[rage2]

RBR just bought out Berger's 50% stake in STR, making them full owners of 2 teams once again.

In other news... I really can't wait till Rubens retires...


Rubens Barrichello has this week continued his tirade against Ferrari and Michael Schumacher.

The veteran Brazilian, whose record-setting Formula One career looks at an end, has followed through with his promise to one day reveal more about his six-year tenure with the famous Italian team.

On the Brazilian TV programme Fantastico, he claims he was threatened with the sack while he led the infamous 2002 Austrian Grand Prix.

While circulating in front of Schumacher, Barrichello said he was told over the radio: "Do you know that Michael is behind you? It's important for the championship."

He said his conversation with the pits lasted for eight laps, before an ultimatum was presented on the final tour.

"The intensity of the conversation increased with every lap. And then I was told to think about my contract," said Barrichello.

"For me it was clear - take your foot off the gas or you will be going home."

Barrichello said he was appalled by the turn of events, and asked Schumacher afterwards if he had anything to do with the decision.

"He said he had nothing to do with it, but I have the documents at home to prove that he was aware of everything that took place," the 36-year-old insisted.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081125090027.shtml

The race that created the Team Orders rule, because Rubens was told to let off to a slower Schumacher. It was race #6, where MS had a HUGE lead in the championship already. He eventually finished the season with nearly double the points of 2nd place Rubens, and nearly triple the points of 3rd place. Completely unnecessary.

[cloud7]

I can't wait either. There seems to be a lot of Schumi fans on the internet... a lot of comments online have been negative towards Rubens for telling what happened at Ferrari after all these years.

Rubens better be careful, because they may get the italian police on his case for having Ferrari "documents".

[H4LFY2nR]

I saw this on a few sites: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-teams-consider-new-qualifying-format/ What does everyone think of the proposed new qualifying format? I think it's a sweet idea, and should get rid of drivers coasting and blocking drivers on hot laps. Although it will probably make qualifying a lot shorter, and will also screw over teams that are still trying to dial in their car during Q1 lol.

[buh_buh]

People that get stuck behind traffic are going to get the shaft. What if a McLaren or Ferrari is stuck behind a Force India car during lap? Nobody would be able to slow down and let people through since slowing down would get you kicked out.

[A2VR6]

Anyone hear about this?

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44669

Honestly I really think medals would be the dumbest thing ever and deciding the driver's championship by wins only would also be stupid... I like the current points system actually.
:thumbsdow

[rage2]

Both the current quali system as well as the points system is fine. I'm sick of useless changes every 2 years.

If there was a great quali system, it was the old school system. Everyone is out there for an hour going balls out. Last 5 minutes 6 pole changes. That's the shit.

[H4LFY2nR]

Yeah but they'll never go back to the old system, since there's "not enough" passing :nut:

[H4LFY2nR]

And the medal system is retarded:thumbsdow

[Mikko]

Medal system sounds very interesting. It can't be denied that it'd really motivate all those able to compete for wins to go all-out crazy and bring a lot more action in. But I am concerned about the people who aren't able to compete for wins. What are they doing there then? The scoring needs something additional for the whole field.

As for qualification... doesn't matter. It's all similar. In some ways I really liked that one lap system some years ago. Should qualifying be about entertainment or about placing people on the grid according to what speed we can expect of them once the race starts? If the former, then find some kind of entertaining 'game'. If about the latter, then they better use the same loadout that they will be using when the race starts (i.e. no refueling or new tires before the race).

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Mikko
Medal system sounds very interesting. It can't be denied that it'd really motivate all those able to compete for wins to go all-out crazy and bring a lot more action in. But I am concerned about the people who aren't able to compete for wins. What are they doing there then? The scoring needs something additional for the whole field. That's exactly what I've been thinking about. What motivation do the other teams have? What standard to they have to gauge their performance over the course of a year? Yeah it's easy to keep track of your finishes but sponsors and fans don't care about that, they want something tangible, something public.

[cloud7]

the only thing bad about the current qualifying system, imo, is that you put race fuel level in the car for the final qualifying group. I would very much like to see the quickest laps be done in the Q3. It make pole more prestigious, like before in the good old days where fuel load doesn't come into play.

[H4LFY2nR]

I really like the race fuel load for Q3. It makes Q3 important for the race strategy beyond grid position.

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by cloud7
the only thing bad about the current qualifying system, imo, is that you put race fuel level in the car for the final qualifying group. I would very much like to see the quickest laps be done in the Q3. It make pole more prestigious, like before in the good old days where fuel load doesn't come into play.

I think giving a point for winning the pole position would help make pole more "prestigious" and give teams the incentive go balls out for pole and maybe run a lighter fuel load or something else.

[H4LFY2nR]

^And so a lesser team could get pole by running really low fuel and get the point even if it isn't the best pitting strategy for the race. That's how you might still get the fastest lap run in Q3

[buh_buh]

Honda to withdraw from F1? :(

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36685

[rage2]

Honda has made the announcement according to a few sites.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f1today.nl%2Fnieuws%2F2008%2F12%2F04%2Fhonda-niet-aan-de-start-in-2009%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en

They won't be on the March '09 starting grid :(.

Word has it that it's due to the engine rules and Honda's pissed because even with such huge 2009 investments made in 2008 (zero 2008 car development all 2009 car stuff), they won't be competitive down 50hp.

[Ripper]

Wow thats brutal... I was looking foward to seeing what Ross Brawn could pull off with the car this year. :(

[buh_buh]

I blame like everything that is wrong with Honda on Nick Fry.

But on a more serious note, I too was looking forward to this year's car. $22M on this year's car down the drain. Good work Honda. Could not having a sponsor for 2 years in a row have anything to do with this? Earth Dream = death of Honda F1?

[rage2]

No, from what I've read so far, Honda could afford it still. If anything, they're the ones that can weather the economic storm the best out of all F1 teams. It looks like Honda wasn't happy with a decision made at the FOTA meeting and made good on their threats by announcing pulling out tomorrow morning (or late tonight for us).

[H4LFY2nR]

Originally posted by Ripper
Wow thats brutal... I was looking foward to seeing what Ross Brawn could pull off with the car this year. :(

My thoughts exactly...

[Dave P]

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=258426&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_auto_racing-formula_one

Takuma Sato will get another chance to show he is a worthy candidate for one of two vacancies at Toro Rosso.

The former Super Aguri driver has been invited to take part in next week's Formula One test in Jerez by the Red Bull-backed team alongwith Sebastien Buemi and incumbent Sebastien Bourdais.

"We obviously see this as a positive step," said Sato's manager Andrew Gilbert-Scott. "But still nothing is decided for the 2009 racing season."

Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz, who recently re-acquired full control of the Toro Rosso team, has indicated that Buemi will likely be one of the team's two drivers next season. That would leave Sato battling with Bourdais for the remaining seat.

Buemi will be present for all three of the testing days while Sato and Bourdais will split two days each.





ohhhhhhhh man

I hope sato can bump borgay!!!!!!

[The Cosworth]

wow, it isn't even christmas 08 and a lot of drama has already started.

Should be a good year.



Thanks for starting the thread already, also I love the look of the new cars with the slicks, they look really tiny compared to 08 cars

[rage2]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Honda-Pulls-Out-Of-Formula-One/Article/200812115172879?lpos=Business_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15172879_Honda_Pulls_Out_Of_Formula_One

Getting closer and closer to official announcement. I'm still in shock!

edit - more articles. ITV and Reuters. It's pretty much official at this point.

http://www.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUSTRE4B379P20081204
http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=James_Allen&id=44706

RIP Honda F1.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Wow, no Honda? :eek:

[nismodrifter]

Yikes!

[/////AMG]

:eek: WTF... this isn't good.

[buh_buh]

Now its official :(
This is a sad day in F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72322

[rage2]

I'll bet Renault will be the next team to go, potentially before the first 2009 race. If you know Carlos Ghosn, you'll know that he's a notorious cost cutter (which is how he saved Nissan), and Renault F1 has already been in his crosshairs even before the financial crisis.

On a side note, who are you gonna cheer for next year Kev?

[buh_buh]

I always thought Renault would be the first to go since they're such cheap bastards in comparison to the other manufacturers, so you may be right on that one. As for who I'm cheering for next year... whoever's challenging McLaren! Haha. We'll have to see, maybe RBR, and I like Alonso when he's in an inferior car, but I'm not really a Renault fan. If somebody buys up the Honda F1 team or runs their car I would probably still cheer them on, although I'd be a little torn if they put a Ferrari engine in it. I was really looking forward to the first Brawn car this year, especially after all the KERS hype that's been going on. At least now I don't have to sit through another year of 17th place finishes this year.

[rage2]

Originally posted by buh_buh
If somebody buys up the Honda F1 team I would probably still cheer them on. At least now I don't have to sit through another year of 17th place finishes.
There's gonna be major problems for whomever buys that team. With KERS requiring literally perfect weight balance due to the added weight, it will be tough to get that with the 09 Honda chassis because you're mating a Ferrari motor to it. The car was designed with the Honda F1 motor, which will not be available to the buyer.

That being said, I still think we should buy that team for $1 and try to raise some money for gas so we can go for a rip in 'em haha.

[buh_buh]

I read somewhere if someone strikes a deal with Honda, they would still consider producing engines for the car, so there still might be hope, even if they aren't called Honda F1 anymore. I also read somewhere they were planning on running 2 different cars for '09, one with KERS and one without. But none of that really matters anymore. I was really looking forward to an interesting '09 for Honda.

[rage2]

Ya me too. I wanted to see what Ross Brawn can do, especially since they started '09 development WAY earlier than everyone else.

I just picked up the '04 - '08 F1 season reviews, and watching the old races, BAR Honda was right up there with the big boys. I really wanted to see them knock BMW off the top runners, because #1 I hate BMWs, and #2 they have one of the more ugly cars currently in F1.

[bashir26]

Only if I had money. I always dreamed of owning an F1 team.

[rage2]

It's selling for 1GPB.

I'm not sure how much debt that buys you tho.

[buh_buh]

And here comes the shit storm.

FIA makes bid for Cosworth engines:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72324

[boi-alien]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081205072312.shtml

honda won't even stay on as an engine supplier

[urban.one]

Although Toyota says theyre committed to F1, I wouldnt be surprised to see them exit in the not to distant future depending on any changes to the structure of F1.

[buh_buh]

and with Toyota's #1 rival out of the sport, that's even less incentive for them to stay. But for now, these are all just knee jerk reactions to Honda pulling out. 48 hours ago, there was one team speculated that wasn't happy with the direction of F1 with no talks of really pulling out and now everybody is except RBR, Ferrari and McLaren.

[H4LFY2nR]

Originally posted by buh_buh
And here comes the shit storm.

FIA makes bid for Cosworth engines:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72324

That's BS, they're backing the factory teams into a corner. The FIA is trying to come off all friendly by saying they won't force everyone to use the cosworth, but then they're forcing everyone's engines to have the exact same output. Where's the engine supplier's motivation to develop anything? They've already designed engines equivalent or superior to the cosworth by the sounds of it. Factory teams might as well by the cosworth since it would be cheaper to buy than to produce their own copy.

[rage2]

Originally posted by H4LFY2nR
That's BS, they're backing the factory teams into a corner. The FIA is trying to come off all friendly by saying they won't force everyone to use the cosworth, but then they're forcing everyone's engines to have the exact same output. Where's the engine supplier's motivation to develop anything? They've already designed engines equivalent or superior to the cosworth by the sounds of it. Factory teams might as well by the cosworth since it would be cheaper to buy than to produce their own copy.
The cost problem is currently solved today. Customer engines. Ferrari and Renault currently provides them, Mercedes will next year too. They're taking away the profits of these manufacturers, so I really don't know what the point is for a cosworth spec engine, unless it's the new low cost turbo engine that they're talking about.

[buh_buh]

There's no point in producing your own units, since its said in the article


"Any engine that car makers produce themselves will not be allowed to have better performance than the standard unit
This is like allowing teams to keep using the V10 a couple years ago, but performance wasn't allowed to exceed that of the V8, and eventually everyone made the switch. I hope teams and drivers follow through with their threats and pull out of the sport. I think its bs, but I really don't have a solution to the problem either.

[/////AMG]

Alonso says standard F1 engine could make him quit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8110518

[Alpine Autowerks]

WOW 1 Beeelion dollars to come 2nd from last...:eek:

Nick Fry has no honor so Honda's in-house seppuku clean up team will not have be dispatched to Brackley.

The medals ideal goes contrary to the thrust of vehicle rules, engines and transmissions which have to last for multiple races. Qualifying is a parade now without the 1 lap wonder cars, engine and tires of the golden turbo era. Todays vehicle rules and points all reward consistency and strategy... but for the drivers they want win or spin ???

[buh_buh]

Buemi leads Jerez test day 1
Looks like Bourdais might be on his way out. Bring on Sato!

1. Sebastien Buemi Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:18.742 91
2. Sebastien Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:19.288 77
3. Gary Paffett McLaren Mercedes 1:20.134 26
4. Pedro de la Rosa McLaren Mercedes 1:20.164 21
5. Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1:20.261 48
6. Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:20.678 49
7. Kazuki Nakajima Williams 1:21.338 57
8. Nelson Piquet Renault 1:21.547 124
9. Christian Klien BMW Sauber 1:22.098 15