Calgary Police Service: Quotas and commission?

[LUDELVR]

I was just speaking to one of my students and she was saying that her dad, who is a police officer with the CPS, says that he first of all does have a quota to fulfill with regards to handing out tickets and this is what kind of shocked me but is not really surprising...they get a commission for every other ticket after their quota.

I just want to know if anyone can verify this because if you can, this could possibly prove as being useful in court as to why an officer would be so keen to give out so many tickets.

Anyways, some clarification would be great for my ignorant mind!!!! ;)

[core_upt]

Considering city employees aren't allowed to accept tips or gratuities in the service side; kickbacks, spiffs or promo items on the business side, I can't see cops getting a commission on tickets.

[Eleanor]

I would highly doubt it, as the papers would jump all over a story like this.

[adam c]

not surprised

[Tomaz]

I have heard from a few of my friends that this was the case a few years ago. They were not making commission, but did have a quota to reach.

If i remeber correctly, about 5 years ago there was a story about this on CFCN. the outcome being that CPS still has a quota, but it is used more as a guidline. Nobody want a cop that doesn't hand out violation tickets as it is unproductive. This way they can be tracked and have proof that they are doing thier jobs.

[Kritafo]

I believe they do have a quota but I don't think CPS pays them commission.

Regardless if your speeding and you get a ticket. . Suck it up. Be thankful you didn't kill someone.

[Wehbeast]

Originally posted by Kritafo
Suck it up. Be thankful you didn't kill someone.

Dont start with your "holier-than-thou" crap

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by Wehbeast


Dont start with your "holier-than-thou" crap

and thus it has started.

I just asked a friend of mine who works CPS and she said that there is a "Quota" but it's more like "tracking". There is no commission, but it is considered when there is an application for promotion.

Anyone on the force able to back this up?

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by Kritafo
I believe they do have a quota but I don't think CPS pays them commission.

Regardless if your speeding and you get a ticket. . Suck it up. Be thankful you didn't kill someone.

Well, if one would suck it up and pay the fine without analyzing one's options, then that individual is truly an idiot so good on him/her! Besides, speed doesn't kill people, recklessness and stupidity does. I just read that in a western country that only 3% of its accidents were caused by exceeding the speed limit.

In any case, I want to explore this a bit closer and I've asked my student to verify her claim with her father. As well, I have another student who has a dad who is a Sheriff and I want to know how they work as well! So I'll let you know what I find with them.

Cheers.

[Idratherbsidewayz]

Originally posted by Kritafo
Suck it up. Be thankful you didn't kill someone.

Housewives... :rolleyes:

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Kritafo
I believe they do have a quota but I don't think CPS pays them commission.

Regardless if your speeding and you get a ticket. . Suck it up. Be thankful you didn't kill someone.


Today I was speeding while eating a pork sandwhich.

[dannie]

^ :rofl:

[TYMSMNY]

Why would it matter if CPS works on a quota system or not? They aren't making tickets/infractions up. Lets say you get caught for speeding, your defense is going to be that the officer in question was just giving out tickets to fulfil quota? pretty weak.

[LUDELVR]

Guys, keep it on topic please. You may state your opinion but try and back it up. If you just say shit for the sake of saying shit without backing it up then that's just ignorant. I want to "TRY" to keep this on topic...notice that the key word there is try! ;)

I'm certain that if Kritafo were ever to speed, he/she would simply say "I did the crime, I'll pay the fine" and would never ponder his/her innocence in the matter and would simply pay the fine and not consider that possibly the radar was calibrated incorrectly or that the officer did not have any real training in the use of the equipment or that the officer was attempting to reach his/her quota and was simply handing out tickets to do so.:dunno:

[ragu]

Even if you take them to court, the fact is the tickets given out are legit. I don't see how there can even be a case built on this.
You can't go in and say all these tickets are BS because he would get commission on them...

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by LUDELVR
Guys, keep it on topic please. You may state your opinion but try and back it up. If you just say shit for the sake of saying shit without backing it up then that's just ignorant.



You want Quasar to post a pic of him speeding and eating a pork sandwich?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by LUDELVR

Anyways, some clarification would be great for my ignorant mind!!!! ;)

My friends neighbor told me that the station's themselves get a % of the ticket. So cops themselves aren't making any money off of it personally, but the station does, which would give them better equipment, parties, etc.

(edit to clarify: my friends neighbor is a CPS in the gang unit)

[theken]

My wifes friends husband is a cop he told me he never gets his quota. So don't try to get out of tickets that you know you were in the wrong. I fight tickets that are wrong. Like a running yellow light ticket. That's bullshit.

[mx73someday]

So what happens when people are mostly law-abiding and safe, then CPS gets desperate and starts handing out tickets for the most ridiculous infractions. The people are never rewarded because there will always be cops taxing them for new things so that they can pay their bills.

This explains why they are constantly coming up with new ways to catch us, because we are mostly obedient to the methods they already have in use.

[Kritafo]

I have in fact had a speeding ticket. I got pulled over on Stony Trail up by Royal Oak before the new overpass was all done. It was about 4 years ago, when you were allowed to do 80, I was doing 62 going into the 60 turn onto Country Hills Blvd.

I paid my ticket and didn't complain. It was a May 24th long weekend, he had about 5 of us pulled over. It did feel insulted at the time, I was doing 2 over the posted speed.

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by QuasarCav

pork sandwhich

Originally posted by theken
My wifes friends husband is a cop

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


My friends neighbor
Coincidence?

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by Kritafo
I have in fact had a speeding ticket. I got pulled over on Stony Trail up by Royal Oak before the new overpass was all done. It was about 4 years ago, when you were allowed to do 80, I was doing 62 going into the 60 turn onto Country Hills Blvd.

I paid my ticket and didn't complain. It was a May 24th long weekend, he had about 5 of us pulled over. It did feel insulted at the time, I was doing 2 over the posted speed.

Weak. Really, actually, so incredibly, totally, ridiculously weak.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by ragu
Even if you take them to court, the fact is the tickets given out are legit. I don't see how there can even be a case built on this.
You can't go in and say all these tickets are BS because he would get commission on them...

Oh no, I totally agree with you on this. What I'm leading towards is that if the cop has not met his quota, this is reason that he may be targeting vehicles that are not in fact speeding but rather more of a target that "would" or "could" be speeding. This incentive alone would not be viable, but couple it with a few other things may work in one's favour in the court room. Cops are human and are not impervious to feeling stressed so if he or she is in need of meeting a quota for whatever reason, such as a promotion, then meeting these needs may be achieved by dodgey means.

[TYMSMNY]

Originally posted by mx73someday
So what happens when people are mostly law-abiding and safe, then CPS gets desperate and starts handing out tickets for the most ridiculous infractions. The people are never rewarded because there will always be cops taxing them for new things so that they can pay their bills.

This explains why they are constantly coming up with new ways to catch us, because we are mostly obedient to the methods they already have in use.

an infraction is an infraction. Doesn't matter if you're super safe, super nice, and a super clean driving record. If the officer pulls you over for doing 5km/h over one time, he/she CAN give you a ticket. There isn't a reward for following the rules, just like anything else in life.

I agree that there are somethings that are pretty controversial (such a automated speed cameras) as it does generate concerns as to what the real reason is.

Pay the ticket, and maybe that'll decrease the chances that you'll it again next time... just like Kritafo. :D

[TomcoPDR]

I think the most important lesson Leo is that you found out the chick's dad can legally shoot you if you tried anything on her... Dodged a huge bullet on that one, which makes the ticket quota issue minimal.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror


You want Quasar to post a pic of him speeding and eating a pork sandwich?

Absolutely...just like that one bloke in India texting while riding his bike!! ;)

[hampstor]

Originally posted by TYMSMNY


an infraction is an infraction. Doesn't matter if you're super safe, super nice, and a super clean driving record. If the officer pulls you over for doing 5km/h over one time, he/she CAN give you a ticket. There isn't a reward for following the rules, just like anything else in life.

I agree that there are somethings that are pretty controversial (such a automated speed cameras) as it does generate concerns as to what the real reason is.

Pay the ticket, and maybe that'll decrease the chances that you'll it again next time.

Isn't that a mandate from City Hall for CPS to generate revenue?

I'm not sure why anyone is the least bit surprised by the quota, or the fact speed on green/redlight cameras/photo radar is a cash cow given the mandate.

[LUDELVR]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR
I think the most important lesson Leo is that you found out the chick's dad can legally shoot you if you tried anything on her... Dodged a huge bullet on that one, which makes the ticket quota issue minimal.

Like I said, stay on topic....DICK!! ;) :rofl:

[510-Trevor]

Originally posted by Tomaz
.... If i remeber correctly, about 5 years ago there was a story about this on CFCN. the outcome being that CPS still has a quota, but it is used more as a guidline. Nobody want a cop that doesn't hand out violation tickets as it is unproductive. This way they can be tracked and have proof that they are doing thier jobs.
I remember that story as well, and like you said, at the time the CPS claimed it was more of a way of tracking officers production. IIRC the quota was actually quite small, something like 30 tickets a month or less than 2 per shift (on average). Who doesn't see (or commit)at least that many offences just on the drive to work?

[adam c]

Originally posted by Kritafo
I have in fact had a speeding ticket. I got pulled over on Stony Trail up by Royal Oak before the new overpass was all done. It was about 4 years ago, when you were allowed to do 80, I was doing 62 going into the 60 turn onto Country Hills Blvd.

I paid my ticket and didn't complain. It was a May 24th long weekend, he had about 5 of us pulled over. It did feel insulted at the time, I was doing 2 over the posted speed.

so very dumb... speed limits posted on yellow signs are suggestions not the limit, you could have fought it and won

[TYMSMNY]

Originally posted by hampstor


Isn't that a mandate from City Hall for CPS to generate revenue?

I'm not sure why anyone is the least bit surprised by the quota, or the fact speed on green/redlight cameras/photo radar is a cash cow given the mandate.

Everything has a manadate to generate revenue... including the church. :drama:

Those redlight cameras causes MORE (less serious) accidents than if they weren't in place. People stomp on their brakes when they see a yellow light now and their a couple feet away from the intersection.

[revelations]

"quota" .... a good search word

I have a good friend who spend a while in the CPS traffic division.

The CPS traffic division has a quota of 20 tickets a day.
The limit they normally work with is +16 kph over, at the laser speed traps.


The CPS general duty cops DO NOT have a quote (AFAIK) and will give tickets at their discretion.

When I was with the RCMP, we had a "quota" of at least one "contact" per shift with the general public with regard to traffic stops.

Didnt mean the person got a ticket, just for PR mainly.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Kritafo
Regardless if your speeding and you get a ticket. . Suck it up. Be thankful you didn't kill someone.



Originally posted by Kritafo
I have in fact had a speeding ticket. I was doing 62 going into the 60 turn onto Country Hills Blvd.

Only 2km/h? That's 2km/h too fast you reckless bitch! Around a corner too!! Be thankful you didn't kill someone!

[01RedDX]

.

[Wehbeast]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff





Only 2km/h? That's 2km/h too fast you reckless bitch! Around a corner too!! Be thankful you didn't kill someone!

Especially in a minivan :rofl: :rofl:

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff





Only 2km/h? That's 2km/h too fast you reckless bitch! Around a corner too!! Be thankful you didn't kill someone!



HAHA This is what beyond is all about.

I know i've deserved all the tickets i've got..

[The_Rural_Juror]

Jeff's the best and Quasar eats spawn of satan sandwiches.:thumbsup:

[max_boost]

Alright Leo, this is what I know from a customer who's son in law is an Officer.

Yes they do have a quota. It's 20 tickets per month. They don't have to meet the quota though. They can write more or less.

The commission thing I don't think is true.

One of the perks of being in CPS is, if one of the Officer's family members/friends etc. got a ticket, he would just have to call up the other Officer and say, "Hey, can you let this one off for me? I owe you one next"

My brother in law is becoming an Officer in a few years so I look forward to being able to take advantage of this system haha

BTW, I just got a ticket, you want to fight it for me?

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/243037/got-a-speeding-ticket-question-though-/

[Toma]

It's not commission per se.....

Its 'overtime' pay for court time.

I went through the entire CPS hiring procedure... was actually hired...

A cop can EASILY add 30% or more to his yearly salary with court time, which on its own is a big incentive for a lot of them.

For example, I think it was around 2000, base salary was low $30's, and with traffic court time, you could "earn" $50k+.... every cop I talked to about salary while making my decision mentioned this and considered it a big perk of the job.

[01RedDX]

.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by 01RedDX








Why don't the cops chime in themselves? I know they are lurking in here.

But my dogs mothers brother is a k-9 in the cps... let me ask his owner ;)

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

Why don't the cops chime in themselves? I know they are lurking in here.


They probably aren't allowed to talk about it :dunno:

It's one thing to say it while at a bbq, it's another to say it on a forum where it can be traced back to you.

[Meback]

Originally posted by core_upt
Considering city employees aren't allowed to accept tips or gratuities in the service side; kickbacks, spiffs or promo items on the business side, I can't see cops getting a commission on tickets.

Have u ever been to timmies? 5.0's get free coffee and donuts, the good cop regardless will still pay for it and that is only a selected hand full.

To the op, cops do not get commission. Cops are also reluctant to admit that they have quotas, but I am sure that their superiours expect to see an X number of tickets handed out in a month. It's mostly like a measure of productivity and a way to generate revenue.

[QuasarCav]

Originally posted by Meback


Have u ever been to timmies? 5.0's get free coffee and donuts, the good cop regardless will still pay for it and that is only a selected hand full.

To the op, cops do not get commission. Cops are also reluctant to admit that they have quotas, but I am sure that their superiours expect to see an X number of tickets handed out in a month. It's mostly like a measure of productivity and a way to generate revenue.


So if I pull up in my 'Stang with the top down so my hair can blow I get free coffee and donuts?

[lint]

Originally posted by Toma
It's not commission per se.....

Its 'overtime' pay for court time.

I went through the entire CPS hiring procedure... was actually hired...

A cop can EASILY add 30% or more to his yearly salary with court time, which on its own is a big incentive for a lot of them.

For example, I think it was around 2000, base salary was low $30's, and with traffic court time, you could "earn" $50k+.... every cop I talked to about salary while making my decision mentioned this and considered it a big perk of the job.

This

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by TYMSMNY


an infraction is an infraction. Doesn't matter if you're super safe, super nice, and a super clean driving record. If the officer pulls you over for doing 5km/h over one time, he/she CAN give you a ticket. There isn't a reward for following the rules, just like anything else in life.


You're missing my point completely. What happens when the public becomes nearly completely obedient to the traffic laws? Cops have a quota, they need to get paid and they have a bureaucracy to maintain. What happens is that cops become even more brutal, they'll go to any length to find something wrong with an otherwise obedient and safe driving public.

I would argue that driving at the moment in Calgary is safe, that any effort to make it safer by taxing the public is a wasted effort and would result in a tiny almost-incalculable improvement in safety. I imagine if they wouldn't have put up photo radar and red light cameras that I would still be pleased with the level of safety in Calgary. I understand that driving safety can always be improved, but there comes a point where new laws have almost no effect except to generate revenue to maintain new bureaucracies.

[DayGlow]

I will come forward and say there are no quotas in place. Now understand that a cop is accountable for his time to his superior and one way to measure productivity of an officer is to track the number of summonses he writes. It's a quantative measure of performance. The same as the number of charges laid, warrants executed, etc

Now if an officer is low in all areas that can be measured his superior can then question what exactly is that officer doing with his time. One officer may charge more people and write less tickets for example. Personally I document pretty much every interaction I have with the public. I may let off 10 people I pull over, but I'll have a record of that and why I did the actions I did. If I was ever denied a permotion or transfer because I didn't write enough tickets I would fight it through the association.

I agree that some officers write way too many tickets because it's an easy stat to track. At the same time there has to be quanitative measures for performance. How can I prove my mere presence stopped a crime from happenning?

In short there is no quota, but tickets are an east way to show and track performance on the job, which I don't really agree with

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by mx73someday


What happens when the public becomes nearly completely obedient to the traffic laws?

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/212284/do-red-light-cameras-work-too-well/

[revelations]

Dayglow, are you speaking for the CPS as a whole?

If that's the case, then it sounds like the traffic guys have made some changes.




Originally posted by DayGlow
I will come forward and say there are no quotas in place. Now understand that a cop is accountable for his time to his superior and one way to measure productivity of an officer is to track the number of summonses he writes. It's a quantative measure of performance. The same as the number of charges laid, warrants executed, etc

Now if an officer is low in all areas that can be measured his superior can then question what exactly is that officer doing with his time. One officer may charge more people and write less tickets for example. Personally I document pretty much every interaction I have with the public. I may let off 10 people I pull over, but I'll have a record of that and why I did the actions I did. If I was ever denied a permotion or transfer because I didn't write enough tickets I would fight it through the association.

I agree that some officers write way too many tickets because it's an easy stat to track. At the same time there has to be quanitative measures for performance. How can I prove my mere presence stopped a crime from happenning?

In short there is no quota, but tickets are an east way to show and track performance on the job, which I don't really agree with

[S4maniac]

Dayglow - are you saying the CPS has lifted its requirement of 20 "stats" per month from the patrol division? I believe another CPS member called the quota "performance expectations".

No matter what you call it, its still a quota.

If it quacks like a duck ...

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by revelations
Dayglow, are you speaking for the CPS as a whole?

If that's the case, then it sounds like the traffic guys have made some changes.





Pretty much as far as I know still working at the bottom of the ladder. I freely admit I have no clue what goes on in the administrative side.

As you can imagine Traffic has a much narrower scope than a general patrol so their performance is based on traffic enforcement, ie tickets. I plead ignorance if there us a actual set number that they are expected to issue. I know there have been changes in the unit many years ago, before they would hammer a spot in the morning, then cruise on the bikes for the rest of the day. Now I believe they are expected to show they are enforcing through out the day at different locations, which are based in complaints from the community. I know we have a massive database based on community input. Remember traffic enforcement is always rated high on the concerns from the community as a whole, even if the base for this forum doesn't feel it's as important.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by S4maniac
Dayglow - are you saying the CPS has lifted its requirement of 20 "stats" per month from the patrol division? I believe another CPS member called the quota "performance expectations".

No matter what you call it, its still a quota.

If it quacks like a duck ...

Well a supervisor can set whatever expectation he wants for his men, but if they don't meet it there isn't really any ramifications as long as they can show how they have used their time, ie say an officer has 20+ criminal charges a month, but only 5 or so tickets there isn't a whole lot a suporvisor can do. If he denies a course or some other 'perk' because he didn't meet the expectation the officer could grieve it through the association since there is no set policy on the number of tickets written.

FYI I haven't written 20 in a month for a very long time and never have been repermanded on it. I can show how I spend my time in other areas.

So really there is no set number, but tickets are a core stat to show how you spend your time.

[phil98z24]

Now that I am up and about after working night shift, I will come forward and help backup what Dayglow said and clear some of this up.

There is a non-mandatory performance expectation that has been mandated by management for a measure of officer productivity, including summons. However, for street level patrol officers this is not something that is enforced to the level it will hold you back for promotion or anything of that sort, as we are also measured by our criminal charges, warrants, reports, investigative time, etc. From what I understand, the traffic guys DO have a quota to meet as there entire mandate is traffic related enforcement and this is a criteria for how effectively they are doing their work in relation to where they have been mandated to improve traffic related safety - I think this makes sense.

The whole thing about commission is entirely untrue, and none of that money makes its way back to each district. Some money goes into city coffers, but most of it goes back to the province as a lot of the tickets written in this city are for bylaw/provincial offences, and not traffic.

[revelations]

To sum everything up:

- No commissions or kickbacks
- Patrol units do NOT have a "set" quota
- Traffic units DO have a "set" quota (20 VTs per day)

[Toma]

Originally posted by revelations
To sum everything up:

- No commissions or kickbacks
- Patrol units do NOT have a "set" quota
- Traffic units DO have a "set" quota (20 VTs per day)

Huge amounts of overtime pay can be accumulated without actual equivalent overtime work....