protein

[bashir26]

Do I really need protein? After a pretty intense workout my body is a hurt the next day then I'm perfect the day after. Do I need protein?

[buh_buh]

yes

[mdeluxe]

:banghead: protein is most important when working out, you should be taking two scoops 2-3 times a day.

[GQBalla]

search...

[bashir26]

K thanks for the quick response I was just wondering If i should take it.

[kutt3r]

Originally posted by mdeluxe
:banghead: protein is most important when working out, you should be taking two scoops 2-3 times a day.

:facepalm:

Does anyone understand that protien comes from food and not just a container? Is it that mysterious? BEEFCAKE!!

Protien and aminos are the basic building blocks for muscle. Yes you need protien, otherwise your body will canabalize itself to get the aminos it needs. Kinda pointless working out with out protien.... (this is a VERY basic description of what actually goes on and what you need for optimum recovery/muscle growth)

I suggest a lot of reading....

[bashir26]

Originally posted by kutt3r


:facepalm:

Does anyone understand that protien comes from food and not just a container? Is it that mysterious? BEEFCAKE!!

Protien and aminos are the basic building blocks for muscle. Yes you need protien, otherwise your body will canabalize itself to get the aminos it needs. Kinda pointless working out with out protien.... (this is a VERY basic description of what actually goes on and what you need for optimum recovery/muscle growth)

I suggest a lot of reading....

I know, I just mean protein shakes. I eat tons of meats, eggs, tuna and oatmeal daily. I was just curious if I also need the shake on top of all the protein I already consume.

[buh_buh]

take a shake right after workout. The rest of it should be relied on through food. I take 1 scoop a day on workout days and the rest I rely on food. I don't think putting that much synthetic stuff into your body is that good for you anyway. But the whole healthy vs bodybuilding debate is a whole another argument.

[max_boost]

Yes.

Protein shake within 30mins after a workout. Get the rest from food. Depending on how much protein you want to consume, it's anywhere from 75% to matching your body weight or in Darkane's case, even more!

Get reading. There is a lot of information available on these topics.

[Dumbass17]

Originally posted by mdeluxe
:banghead: protein is most important when working out, you should be taking two scoops 2-3 times a day.
uhm

ignore that post

[kutt3r]

Now to start some sh!t....

You don't need a shake after working out... they are convient, they are easy to make... but a 'protien' shake alone is not ideal.

Check Darkane's post on this, his post workout (pwo) is probably the most ideal available... you also need some fast acting carbs to replace the muscle gycogyen <I cannot speell>

Or for the ghetto fabulous like myself that refuse to buy into the hype.....chocolate milk.... tada... cheaper, almost perfect ratio of carbs & protien and convient (I lie I still love true protiens stuff, just taking a break to test my all natural, minimal suppliments theory)
:eek:

I have been trying this out for the last 5-6 weeks and have not noticed a difference from my pwo mix from true protien, while not ideal it has not stopped my progress as of yet... personal best DL this morning, powered by nothing but cows milk and sugar... so it is certainly not hindering my gains.

[JfuckinC]

Glutamine and i think amino acid pills? are ideal for post workout arent they also? Help with muscle recovery dont they?

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by kutt3r

Or for the ghetto fabulous like myself that refuse to buy into the hype.....chocolate milk.... tada... cheaper, almost perfect ratio of carbs &amp; protien and convient (I lie I still love true protiens stuff, just taking a break to test my all natural, minimal suppliments theory)
:eek:


wouldn't the casein in milk slow down the protein absorption in your PWO shake?

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by kutt3r
Now to start some sh!t....

You don't need a shake after working out... they are convient, they are easy to make... but a 'protien' shake alone is not ideal.

Check Darkane's post on this, his post workout (pwo) is probably the most ideal available... you also need some fast acting carbs to replace the muscle gycogyen &lt;I cannot speell&gt;

Or for the ghetto fabulous like myself that refuse to buy into the hype.....chocolate milk.... tada... cheaper, almost perfect ratio of carbs &amp; protien and convient (I lie I still love true protiens stuff, just taking a break to test my all natural, minimal suppliments theory)
:eek:

I have been trying this out for the last 5-6 weeks and have not noticed a difference from my pwo mix from true protien, while not ideal it has not stopped my progress as of yet... personal best DL this morning, powered by nothing but cows milk and sugar... so it is certainly not hindering my gains.

Optimal meal PWO is Hydrolyzed whey protein and Waxy Maize Starch... So yes "protein" shakes are ideal as it does not take a long time to assimilate. Hydrolyzed whey spikes in the bloodstream in just 20 minutes, compare that to the next fastest Whey isolate, spikes in 90 min. Chocolate milk is not close to optimal, but its better then nothing. - A good PWO shake is great, but dont forget that nothing beats eating hard 7days a week.

[5hift]

Originally posted by bashir26


I know, I just mean protein shakes. I eat tons of meats, eggs, tuna and oatmeal daily. I was just curious if I also need the shake on top of all the protein I already consume.

You dont need protein shakes at all. They can make it easier to meet daily protein requirements, but if you plan your diet you can easily take in enough protein from healthy whole foods.

Calculate how much protein you should be consuming relative to your weight and workout. Then look at your diet to see the difference between what you need and what you are consuming. If you have a relatively good diet to start with, you probably wont need to add much. For me personally, I dont like protein shakes at all, I just drink about 2 L of milk daily in between my normal meals and before I go to sleep to make up that protein deficit that shakes normally would help with.

[kutt3r]

Originally posted by buh_buh


wouldn't the casein in milk slow down the protein absorption in your PWO shake?

No.

Milk= Whey & Casein, best of both worlds. Fast acting and slow.

I have yet to see a real study to prove that Casein hinders the absorbtion of whey or that fat hinders the digestion of whey.

[holden]

Originally posted by kutt3r


No.

Milk= Whey &amp; Casein, best of both worlds. Fast acting and slow.

I have yet to see a real study to prove that Casein hinders the absorbtion of whey or that fat hinders the digestion of whey.

Yup, milk is approx. 80% casein, 20% whey

[civic_rida]

casein is before bed.

Why do you think you drink the shake right after you workout.
You want something fast acting for quick absorption and a whey shake with milk is not the way.

[kutt3r]

Originally posted by Redlined_8000


Optimal meal PWO is Hydrolyzed whey protein and Waxy Maize Starch... So yes &quot;protein&quot; shakes are ideal as it does not take a long time to assimilate. Hydrolyzed whey spikes in the bloodstream in just 20 minutes, compare that to the next fastest Whey isolate, spikes in 90 min. Chocolate milk is not close to optimal, but its better then nothing. - A good PWO shake is great, but dont forget that nothing beats eating hard 7days a week.

Protein alone is not ideal. Thus the WMS, Dextrose, Gatorade, take your pick of fast absorbing carb, WMS being regarded as the best of the bunch.
Very few people read labels and have no idea what they are putting in their bodies, thus my 'protein'.

I don't remember saying Choc was optimal, but for 90% people on this board it is all that they need and would save them a ton of $$$ for then next set of mad rimz.....

I am sure that I will be going back to my custom TP mix after my 'study' is done, would be nice if the canadian $ gained a little too :P

[civic_rida]

i like to use a whey isolate with water.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by kutt3r

I have yet to see a real study to prove that Casein hinders the absorbtion of whey or that fat hinders the digestion of whey. I never said it hinders the absorption of whey, its just been proven to slow the absorption process down, and typically after a workout, you want to get that whey into your body ASAP.

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by kutt3r


No.

Milk= Whey &amp; Casein, best of both worlds. Fast acting and slow.

I have yet to see a real study to prove that Casein hinders the absorbtion of whey or that fat hinders the digestion of whey.

Not necessarily... Most any other whole food or casein will slow down whey. Olive oil + whey shake is considered a meal because the olive oil slows it down.. same as oats and whey shake. Casein will slow down the whey - i am pretty sure.

[liquidboi69]

Originally posted by buh_buh
I never said it hinders the absorption of whey, its just been proven to slow the absorption process down, and typically after a workout, you want to get that whey into your body ASAP.

Yes you are right you want whey into you asap, but many people do blends of cassien/whey.

Cassein is not SLOW ABSORPTION it just breaks down slow I thought.

and to civicrida saying, you take it before bed. That is generally true, but guess what, after that whey is used up, your body goes into catabolism and breaks down its own muscle again i thought.

Like I said a lot of people do different stuff, and a lot of the info provided here is just the general rule and people seem to forget that different people need different proportions of nutrients.


Originally posted by Redlined_8000


Not necessarily... Most any other whole food or casein will slow down whey. Olive oil + whey shake is considered a meal because the olive oil slows it down.. same as oats and whey shake. Casein will slow down the whey - i am pretty sure.

You are comparing casein, a form of protein, to whole foods like oatmeal and oil... Of course olive oil and oatmeal is going to slow you down because the stomach has to break it down before it can absorb its nutrients.

[Redlined_8000]

Ya i know dumb comparison lol. point was casein slows down whey.

[liquidboi69]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satternorton.htm


I take what I said back Lol....

Assuming that is correct

[kutt3r]

Seeing as it is slow at work and I am bored, here is my last post on the subject. Cause apparently I just pull this stuff out of the air....
(Notice the BB.com article has no supporting argument for there statement about CAS slowing Whey? They quote this: http://www.pnas.org/content/94/26/14930.abstract , which says nothing about Casein slowing whey.....)

This is the closest I have found to a study that compares Casein & Whey

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/5/1070

Coles Notes:

Conclusions: Our results confirm the major role of kinetics in dietary nitrogen postprandial utilization and highlight the paradox of MSPI, which, despite its high Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, ensures a rate of amino acid delivery that is too rapid to sustain the anabolic requirement during the postprandial period. Milk proteins had the best nutritional quality, which suggested a synergistic effect between soluble proteins and caseins.


http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8

Coles Notes:
The recommendation of the International Society of Sport Nutrition is that individuals engaging in exercise attempt to obtain their protein requirements through whole foods. When supplements are ingested, we recommend that the protein contain both whey and casein components due to their high protein digestibility corrected amino acid score and ability to increase muscle protein accretion.


Pretty decent article overall here:
http://faculty.css.edu/tboone2/asep/PEPonlineNutritionKREIDER.doc

Table 3 is interesting...not sure that I agree with it personally, but it is what it is....

Facts that we can take away:
CAS - slow, gels in gut
Whey - fast, absorbs quickly

When taken together and plasma is tested, quick release and slow release is seen...Based on that I would conclude that CAS does not impede the absorption of Whey, more studies would need be needed for conclusive evidence.

As I know most of these studies are far from perfect I always maintain an open mind, but taking the word from some guy on a forum with no direct proof is not something I am inclined to do.

There is no right and wrong in this debate as I do not believe that every human body is the same, be it genetics etc... and will react differently to different things. Education and controlled studies on what works for you is the best when deciding, not to mention lots of reading.