5.1 or 7.1

[tsi_neal]

Im in the market for a surround system, Im mostly looking at 5.1 stuff because of the price. It seems like lots of decent stuff for arround $500.

does anyone have suggestions on some of the best setups for the money and is making the jump up to 7.1 worth the price?

[GTS Jeff]

I'd say it's worth it, but only if you set up the speakers in the optimal positions.

[em2ab]

It's not worth it. Most of the sound encoding (Dolby Digital) is encoded in 5.1, not 7.1 so it'll simply use an algorithm to upconvert it for your system. That's pointless if you want to hear the movie the way it was meant to be heard. Besides, 99% of movies right now are encoded in 5.1 audio so you'd only get to hear about 10 movies in 7.1 native anyway. I think it was made hoping the companies would switch over to encoding for it but they never did.

I have 7.1 (received for Christmas) and the rear speaker is just a mix of the 2 side speakers. Sometimes I don't even hook it up. In fact it's not hooked up now.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by em2ab
It's not worth it. Most of the sound encoding (Dolby Digital) is encoded in 5.1, not 7.1 so it'll simply use an algorithm to upconvert it for your system. That's pointless if you want to hear the movie the way it was meant to be heard. Besides, 99% of movies right now are encoded in 5.1 audio so you'd only get to hear about 10 movies in 7.1 native anyway. I think it was made hoping the companies would switch over to encoding for it but they never did.

I have 7.1 (received for Christmas) and the rear speaker is just a mix of the 2 side speakers. Sometimes I don't even hook it up. In fact it's not hooked up now. 5.1 basically gives you a sound field coming from discretely the front and the rear, whereas 7.1 is more of a circular field around you. Even in the case where 5.1 is processed to 7.1, the two surround back speakers have completely unique signals that are made up not by simply mixing the signals of the surround speakers, but are made up by steering logic too (so a plane flying by will go SR, SBR, SBL, SL.)

[em2ab]

Not quite, the 5 speakers are still independent but it mixes the sound from the surround right and surround left to give you your surround back.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by em2ab
Not quite, the 5 speakers are still independent but it mixes the sound from the surround right and surround left to give you your surround back. Uhh you didn't really say anything new, but somehow figured that adding "not quite" to your statement would lend it some validity. :dunno:

If you think that Dolby spends all their R&D dollars and years to simply "mix the channels" then I don't really know what to say. Matrixing is a pretty complicated procedure that does far more than mixing the channels. As I said, a ton of math goes into good steering logic to make up the new channels. If it were that simple, people could just hook up their back speakers with reverse polarity leads from the surrounds.

[redline]

If you just have $500 to spend then 5.1 is your ticket.

[tsi_neal]

Would it be safe to say that as time goes and BD becomes more prominant that 7.1 will become the standard?


Also $500 isnt my budget, its only a starting point of where i was looking. As long as i see value in it Im willing to spend up to a grand.

[Mibz]

You can always start with 5.1 and go to 7.1 later by buying 2 more speakers and rearranging them.

[tsi_neal]

would the better bet be to buy a reciever and speakers seperatly or one of the all in one packages?

[Mibz]

HTIBs are great value, but you're never going to get the quality of separate, higher end components. It really depends on your budget and your tastes.

I spent $500 on a HTIB when I first moved out and only 6 months later ended up spending another $1500 replacing it. I was working at an electronics store at the time though so I knew what I was missing every day :P

[copynpaste]

I have 5.1 and my bro in law has 7.1. I say for a smaller room dont bother with 7.1, but its definitely noticable in a larger room as it makes the sound more fuller in the back.

[tsi_neal]

the room is mid sized, 14'x29'

[dragonone]

i'm assuming ur couch is not against the wall?
if my couch was not against the wall i don't see a reason why i wouldn't get 7.1 over 5.1

[Kloubek]

My buddy has 7.1, and I have 5.1. Initially, I'd agree with copypaste. My friend's 7.1 was fuller in the rear. But I just turned up my rear surround speakers, and I honestly cannot tell a difference.

Keep in mind that on all accounts, buying the latest and greatest is going to set you back more than it's probably worth. IMO, I don't think all but the most discerning of audiophiles would notice the difference. Save your money.

[em2ab]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Uhh you didn't really say anything new, but somehow figured that adding "not quite" to your statement would lend it some validity. :dunno:

If you think that Dolby spends all their R&D dollars and years to simply "mix the channels" then I don't really know what to say. Matrixing is a pretty complicated procedure that does far more than mixing the channels. As I said, a ton of math goes into good steering logic to make up the new channels. If it were that simple, people could just hook up their back speakers with reverse polarity leads from the surrounds.

I tried responding to you politely and you responded to me with sarcasm. I have an explanation for what I wrote but I won't bother.

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Kloubek
My buddy has 7.1, and I have 5.1. Initially, I'd agree with copypaste. My friend's 7.1 was fuller in the rear. But I just turned up my rear surround speakers, and I honestly cannot tell a difference.

Keep in mind that on all accounts, buying the latest and greatest is going to set you back more than it's probably worth. IMO, I don't think all but the most discerning of audiophiles would notice the difference. Save your money.

That seems to be what im hearing, and comments to make sure i dont skimp on the speakers.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by em2ab


I tried responding to you politely and you responded to me with sarcasm. I have an explanation for what I wrote but I won't bother. No, I responded by calling you out on the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. No sarcasm here. But you know, it doesn't matter. You're nobody to me and you can do whatever you want with your system - and likewise you don't need to justify its inferiority to a stranger over the internet such as myself. BTW, I am currently on a 6.1ch setup here. :)

Neal, I should have read your post more carefully and noticed the $500 budget. Honestly for $500-$1000 it won't even matter. That's not exactly audiophile range and at that point, a HTIB is the best solution. I swear like 90% of HTIB owners I see don't even bother placing the speakers in the right places anyway...like the 3 front speakers are just crammed around the TV and the rears just go wherever is convenient. Anyway, a proper setup with a receiver and 7 speakers just isn't possible for a grand...so go for the most baller HTIB setup you feel like, and please set it up properly!

[86_lude_86]

i would say dont get the htib and get the components and you can buy a reciver with 7.1 get 5 speakers and if you want to you have the option to have the 7.1....

[962 kid]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I'd say it's worth it, but only if you set up the speakers in the optimal positions.

Any tips for 5.1 speaker placement for computer use? I'd like to think I have mine set up decently but I'm not exactly an expert in the subject

[em2ab]

Also look at video passthrough on the receiver you get. If you have a PS3 and 360 and computer and DVD player and whatever else, all the video should be able to plug into your receiver and then have one video cable go from the receiver to your television. That way when you switch your receiver to DVD, you don't have to switch your television to, it goes automatically.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by em2ab
Also look at video passthrough on the receiver you get. If you have a PS3 and 360 and computer and DVD player and whatever else, all the video should be able to plug into your receiver and then have one video cable go from the receiver to your television. That way when you switch your receiver to DVD, you don't have to switch your television to, it goes automatically.

What you described is more video switching, not necessarily passthrough. Passthrough would be when a signal passes through the receiver unmolested by any processing.

[em2ab]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


What you described is more video switching, not necessarily passthrough. Passthrough would be when a signal passes through the receiver unmolested by any processing.

Both really, it's switching the signal and passing it through. I should have said switching though, I agree.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by 962 kid


Any tips for 5.1 speaker placement for computer use? I'd like to think I have mine set up decently but I'm not exactly an expert in the subject A few simple guidelines:

1. center channel as close to the monitor as possible and in the middle, as close to ear level as possible
2. front L+R at least 25 degrees away, wider will make your stereo sound wider and more expansive. It's a good idea on dinky systems I think, as close to ear level as possible.
3. surrounds just behind your sides, mounted a couple feet higher than ear level.
4. Point all speakers directly at you.
5. Try to keep the distances between the speakers and the listening spot the same...to prevent any time delay issues.
6. Subwoofer placement is important. Put the sub where you normally sit, then put your ears in different places in the room where the sub might go. Wherever the bass sounds best to you is where the sub should go.

This is a quick and simple way to set things up. I am a lot more precise when it comes to higher end setups though...but for a computer speaker system, this should be good.

[psycoticclown]

Lotta things you gotta consider other than price, if your couch is against a wall, 7.1 is almost useless, do you have a Blu-Ray player as only Blurays and a very few select games (I think Resistance) play 7.1 natively, thats not to say that your receiver won't decode your source for 7 speakers, but it won't be as good as native 7.1.

I have a 7.1 system in a bigger room, Harman and Kardon Reciever with Soundstage speakers and watching a 7.1 encoded movie like 3:10 to Yuma is absolutely amazing.

Best bet is to just get a 7.1 receiver and just get 5 speakers for now. Since there isn't much 7.1 stuff out there anyways, no real point in buying the extra 2 speakers right now anyways. You can always get them later. Better than getting a 5.1 receiver and smacking yourself 2 years down the road for not getting a 7.1 receiver and pay more.

[tsi_neal]

What do you guys think of these:
Reciever,
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR606-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0015S8PGW/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228064521&sr=1-8

Speakers,
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-SKS-HT540-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B000GU78Z4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228064695&sr=1-1

May not be the most high end stuff but looks like it will do the trick and be in my budget.

[em2ab]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
6. Subwoofer placement is important. Put the sub where you normally sit, then put your ears in different places in the room where the sub might go. Wherever the bass sounds best to you is where the sub should go.
I disagree, subwoofers are omnidirectional sound so if they're set up correctly they should sound the same all around the room. Their placement is not very important at all but if it's a weak subwoofer you may get better results placing it near a wall or in a corner.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by em2ab

I disagree, subwoofers are omnidirectional sound so if they're set up correctly they should sound the same all around the room. Their placement is not very important at all but if it's a weak subwoofer you may get better results placing it near a wall or in a corner. Low frequencies are PERCEIVED to be omni-directional just like high frequencies are PERCEIVED to be uni-directional. This does NOT mean that proper subwoofer placement does not need to be taken into account.

[psycoticclown]

Originally posted by tsi_neal
What do you guys think of these:
Reciever,
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR606-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0015S8PGW/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228064521&sr=1-8

Speakers,
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-SKS-HT540-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B000GU78Z4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228064695&sr=1-1

May not be the most high end stuff but looks like it will do the trick and be in my budget.

Receiver is good, speakers aren't bad, good price on them actually. However, if you have the budget, get some JBL's or even Klipsch's.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by em2ab

I disagree, subwoofers are omnidirectional sound so if they're set up correctly they should sound the same all around the room. Their placement is not very important at all but if it's a weak subwoofer you may get better results placing it near a wall or in a corner. Disagree all you want. :rofl:

Don't spout your n00b knowledge at me like you what you're talking about. Although frequencies below 80Hz are "perceived" as nondirectional, there are still many factors that make your n00b generalizations false.

1. in most lower end setups, the receiver often routes frequencies above 80Hz to the subwoofer if the main speakers can't produce them. Hence, directionality.
2. the subwoofer's vibrations produce sounds above the nondirectional threshold that can be perceived. That is why many higher end HT setups have two subwoofers, one placed on either side.
3. unless you happen to be setting up your speakers in a wide open field, there are constructive and deconstructive interferences that occur and are especially pronouced at lower frequencies because the wavelengths are much larger. Subwoofer placement and even the direction it is pointed in makes a huge difference in how these waves amplify or cancel out by the time they hit your ears.

Man, at first, I thought you were just a nice guy that just didn't really know much. But damn, you're brutal, you're one of those guys that doesn't know a thing but thinks he does. You're trying to trash my post by implying it applies to weak subwoofers? You think you've got some baller shit that defies the laws of physics? Get your shit straight, son.

[em2ab]

I thought you were a guy with common sense. Why is it you can't discuss something on this website without someone else trashing you.....and then accusing you of trashing them? I never tried to trash any of your posts, I never did any of the things you accused me of. This is a discussion and I discussed my disagreement with your posts. I still disagree with you but it doesn't mean you're wrong or that I can even prove that you're wrong.
But there's a polite way to do things and then there's the Beyond way which eventually turns into seeing who's the bigger bully or who's got the biggest balls. To be honest I don't really care, I'm just here to learn and offer my knowledge/opinions to others. If my opinion is wrong, which it sometimes is, then I still post it and let the author figure it out. So far you've called me brutal, said I didn't know anything, and accused me of being new to the topic. You even called me son as if you're attempting to sound aggressive. The only positive point in your rambling towards me is that you actually posted points to help me learn what you know about home theatres and I don't, that's all you should have posted at all. The rest of your spouting was pointless.

I'm nothing but polite to most people here, offering my opinions and just because some are wrong, people feel the need to handle the situation in the most inappropriate way. I am a nice guy, if I wasn't then I would spend my time arguing with you instead of writing this, but I'm not interested in arguing. You have no idea what I know about audio/video systems, the setups I've built and the current projects I'm working on. Otherwise you and I could have a great conversation about them and maybe they'd even turn out better with your input.....had I been willing to accept it.


Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Disagree all you want. :rofl:

Don't spout your n00b knowledge at me like you what you're talking about. Although frequencies below 80Hz are "perceived" as nondirectional, there are still many factors that make your n00b generalizations false.

1. in most lower end setups, the receiver often routes frequencies above 80Hz to the subwoofer if the main speakers can't produce them. Hence, directionality.
2. the subwoofer's vibrations produce sounds above the nondirectional threshold that can be perceived. That is why many higher end HT setups have two subwoofers, one placed on either side.
3. unless you happen to be setting up your speakers in a wide open field, there are constructive and deconstructive interferences that occur and are especially pronouced at lower frequencies because the wavelengths are much larger. Subwoofer placement and even the direction it is pointed in makes a huge difference in how these waves amplify or cancel out by the time they hit your ears.

Man, at first, I thought you were just a nice guy that just didn't really know much. But damn, you're brutal, you're one of those guys that doesn't know a thing but thinks he does. You're trying to trash my post by implying it applies to weak subwoofers? You think you've got some baller shit that defies the laws of physics? Get your shit straight, son.

[Mibz]

The only positive point in your rambling towards me is that you actually posted points to help me learn what you know about home theatres and I don't, that's all you should have posted at all.And you've clearly ignored everything he's said. I have a hard time believing that you come here to learn when, despite being given factual information, you still disagree with it.

Also, you should know as well as anyone that just because you can hook up a home theatre doesn't mean you know what you're doing. Sound is a complicated thing with a lot of science behind it and I know guys who've been selling and installing this equipment for years without actually knowing how any of it works.

[GTS Jeff]

Yeah guy. Listen to the dude who's stereo goes up to ELEVEN.

Sorry if I came across as an ass. But you came across as one too.

[civiclvr]

so, is it possible to use a 7.1 reciever as a 5.1 system? or would you be missing a range of sound? I'm in the same boat as the OP and am trying to dicipher all the info in the posts.
for the next year or so, my living room area is smaller, so the couch is against the wall, but I will be moving into something hopefully bigger. In the meantime, with all the deals going on now, is it smarter to get a 7.1 system and use it as a 5.1?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by civiclvr
so, is it possible to use a 7.1 reciever as a 5.1 system? or would you be missing a range of sound? I'm in the same boat as the OP and am trying to dicipher all the info in the posts.
for the next year or so, my living room area is smaller, so the couch is against the wall, but I will be moving into something hopefully bigger. In the meantime, with all the deals going on now, is it smarter to get a 7.1 system and use it as a 5.1?

Yes you can, its no problem at all to use a 7.1 receiver for 5.1. That's probably what most people are using, actually. Most of the current stuff out right now is 7.1 anyways.

[Mibz]

Eleven's one more than ten....