Cobalt SS -- I know its been discussed but

[r3ccOs]

Quoted w/ all options including subwoofer, XM, moon roof and spoiler: MSRP 28,555 w/ FPDI

Less 5000, if you get them to find financing for you...

23,555 for a car that I am quite impressed with

I've kicked tires on the MSP3, GTI, SRT4, Spec-V & SI now

I rate them in:
All around performance: SS, MSP3, GTI, SI, Spec v, SRT4 for all around confidance

In value? SS, GTI, MSP3 SRT4, SI, Spec V

Quality? GTI, MSP3, SI, SS, SPEC V, SRT4

The SRT was a terrible car... It did not inspire any driver confidence at all. High seating position and completely disconnected steering with a poor shifter = terrible terrible experience

The GTI, SS, SI, & MSP3 in that order inspire confidance well above the SPEC V & especially the SRT

When it comes down to fit & finish... the GTI hands down is in its own league. The GTI with the leather package is as luxurious and solid as anything out there... C30/1series included

With the rest, its not as large of a difference with the exception of the SRT4 again seeming to be built of pure injected plastics...

SS out of the bunch is probably the worst styled, however the performance with launch control, liftless shift and competitant suspenion = great fun

So again... for 23,555 + taxes You get a 260hp turbo rocket with all the fixings, such as a LSD, launch control, bolstered seats, 18in rims with decent tires, brembo brake package and very sporty suspension and a fat ugly wing
Oh and a 5 year 160K warranty now...
I've seen people run sub 14s... very impressive socker and incredibly good on gas w/ the direct injection

It is hard to beat for that price as long as GM doesn't totally go under

[nbaker00]

How much better is the SS then the Speed3? (In Performance)
I drove the Speed3 and was quite impressed with the performance..

[corsvette]

I wonder if gm offers a performance upgrade package for this engine like the old supercharged engine.I dont mind the look of the ss at all,with big wheels they dont look too bad.

[NRGie]

what do you do with the warranty if GM goes bankrupt?

[corsvette]

Even if they go bankrupt i would imagine the company will still exsist.

[r3ccOs]

Personally I found the traction and power delivery of the SS far more linear and predicable than the MSP3

You can drive this car around without engaging much boost with plenty of low end torque all day long (incredible EPA milage: 9.7 city/6.7 highway)

Then you step on it and its a progressive delivery, where the MSP3 & SRT4's lag generates surprising torque steer.

However the MSP3's LSD helps and makes the torque steer very managable unlike the SRT

Is it much faster from a stop or roll? No, all numbers are close for all the boosted rockets, but I think usable daily drivable power it is.

What I mean is, the roll on power is predicable... which to me is a very important

Its probably the most linear boosed vehicle next to the GTI, which you don't even realize when you are using the turbo.

If R&T's numbers are right, this car is every bit as capable as a number performance specific cars close to double its price

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by NRGie
what do you do with the warranty if GM goes bankrupt?

It's not as if the company will disappear from the face of the earth...

[rp_guy]

i'd buy this instead:

$27k MSRP
300hp, 6-speed, RWD coupe

http://www.canadiandriver.com/thenews/2008/11/17/gm-announces-chevrolet-camaro-pricing.htm

[jsn]

^^ Totally different class of car.

[corsvette]

The Cobalt and the new Camaro look like excelent performance bargains.The camaro with the base v6 is putting down some good numbers,just as fast as a v8 mustang with better fuel economy.

[Graham_A_M]

Go with an SS. The dollar per HP comparison is fantastic. Throw on a small pulley, bigger injectors and you're laughing. They are very good cars for the value, but you should also check out the Saturn Astra while you're at it. The HP isn't as much as it should be, but everywhere else its an excellent car. Highly recommended.

[A790]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M
Go with an SS. The dollar per HP comparison is fantastic. Throw on a small pulley, bigger injectors and you're laughing. They are very good cars for the value, but you should also check out the Saturn Astra while you're at it. The HP isn't as much as it should be, but everywhere else its an excellent car. Highly recommended.
The new SS's are turbo...

[adam c]

they still make the srt4?

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by adam c
they still make the srt4?

Caliber SRT-4.

[nbaker00]

Supposedly the Caliper SRT4 is supposed to have better performance then any of these (just from talking to people)
On a side note, I was really dissapointed with the Neon SRT4's performance.

[adam c]

ah ok thanks

[gpomp]

any dealerships have SS demo's?

[Preslow]

Originally posted by nbaker00
Supposedly the Caliper SRT4 is supposed to have better performance then any of these (just from talking to people)
On a side note, I was really dissapointed with the Neon SRT4's performance.

wtf? the Neon SRT4 hauls ass like crazy.

and to the OP, why don't you look at an 04 Subi WRX STI for the same price? AWD, faster, not bad resale, really quick.

[barmanjay]

^^

Assumed that he is purchasing new with dealer financing and full warranty

04 subie won't have much for warranty

[DRKM]

I can imagine that the injectors on the SS are VERY VERY expensive. Like seriously pricey. Any direct injection injectors cost a lot.

[r3ccOs]

That SRT4 might actuality pull even harder than all of them at the top end of the rev-band, but its aerodynamics and weight doesn't work in its advantage

I definately think it has a larger turbo as both lag and power comes in late, but in huge amounts

overall though, the car is terrible... its really an econobox with a big turbo and big bolstered seats...

then again, for a base price of 20,188 (w/ employee pricing offer) its hard to beat too..

[mslbebiz]

I'm basically going through the exact same car buying dilemma as the OP. I've test driven all of these except the Si (I looked at 2006 RSX Type-S's instead) and I haven't driven the Spec V. I also drove the Mini Cooper S, a Crossfire SRT-6, both G8's - the base and GT, the WRX265 and new Mitsu Ralliart.

And I've pretty much come to the same conclusions as the OP as well. The GTI is out due to terrible reliability, the SRT-6 due to high maintenance costs, the G8 GT, WRX, Ralliart and Mini are out due to their higher costs (it would be a hard choice between these 4 if I could afford them), and the RSX has the worst seats I've ever been in, so it's basically between the Speed3 and the SS.

The Speed3 wins in the looks, interior and fun to drive categories, but the SS wins in everything else - price, quickness, handling, fuel efficiency and tune-ability (if you ever wanted to go that direction the Speed3 is notoriously hard to tune, and the SS has a very inexpensive upgrade package coming very soon rumored to take it to 300 or more hp).

Naturally, I'm just having a real hard time getting over the looks of the SS. Although it does look pretty good in white, it's still a Cobalt at the end of the day. For the money though, it is an amazing performance bargain.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


The Speed3 wins in the looks, interior and fun to drive categories, but the SS wins in everything else - price, quickness, handling, fuel efficiency and tune-ability (if you ever wanted to go that direction the Speed3 is notoriously hard to tune, and the SS has a very inexpensive upgrade package coming very soon rumored to take it to 300 or more hp).

Naturally, I'm just having a real hard time getting over the looks of the SS. Although it does look pretty good in white, it's still a Cobalt at the end of the day. For the money though, it is an amazing performance bargain.

to each his own I guess, but I dont think the SS looks bad at all, short of that guady spoiler thats an option on the SS's...
Go with the SS for the performance and everything else, you'll quickly forget the looks when you're in it. The performance is too hard to pass up... looks do grow on a person in time. At first I hated the look of my Z4, it looks like big ole' cock from the front to the back, but it grew on me in time anyway.
:dunno:
no pun intended :rofl:

[NickGT]

Originally posted by corsvette
The Cobalt and the new Camaro look like excelent performance bargains.The camaro with the base v6 is putting down some good numbers,just as fast as a v8 mustang with better fuel economy.

No. Just to clerify something here. The V6 camaro is not "just as fast" as the V8 Mustang. Despite having the same horsepower. It lacks torque, it weighs more, and is expected to turn mid-high 14s at sea level (there's no way chevy would have their V6 in the 13s which is the SS territory). V8 mustang does mid-high 13s.

Go for the cobalt SS that IS a bargain! As far as styling goes, I think it looks just as good or better than most of the other choices you have listed. In fact at least the giant wing sends a message that its not some ordinary cobalt. Where as most of the other choices look as bland as their lackluster econobox siblings. But maybe you prefer the more subtle things in life... Good luck with your choice.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
I'm basically going through the exact same car buying dilemma as the OP. I've test driven all of these except the Si (I looked at 2006 RSX Type-S's instead) and I haven't driven the Spec V. I also drove the Mini Cooper S, a Crossfire SRT-6, both G8's - the base and GT, the WRX265 and new Mitsu Ralliart.

And I've pretty much come to the same conclusions as the OP as well. The GTI is out due to terrible reliability, the SRT-6 due to high maintenance costs, the G8 GT, WRX, Ralliart and Mini are out due to their higher costs (it would be a hard choice between these 4 if I could afford them), and the RSX has the worst seats I've ever been in, so it's basically between the Speed3 and the SS.

The Speed3 wins in the looks, interior and fun to drive categories, but the SS wins in everything else - price, quickness, handling, fuel efficiency and tune-ability (if you ever wanted to go that direction the Speed3 is notoriously hard to tune, and the SS has a very inexpensive upgrade package coming very soon rumored to take it to 300 or more hp).

Naturally, I'm just having a real hard time getting over the looks of the SS. Although it does look pretty good in white, it's still a Cobalt at the end of the day. For the money though, it is an amazing performance bargain.

GTI is out due to reliability yet you're considering the MS3?

I once thought the same thing until I tried them. The new ones are way more reliable. Just check out how many guys bought one on this forum alone in the last year. I've had mine for a year and have had 0 issues.

[rc2002]

Don't forget that you always always get what you pay for.

There's a reason why the cars are in different price categories.

[corsvette]

I think the GTI has the most class by far compaired to any competitor from japan,and the americans are excelent bargains for the performance you get.

[mslbebiz]

GTI is out due to reliability yet you're considering the MS3?

I once thought the same thing until I tried them. The new ones are way more reliable. Just check out how many guys bought one on this forum alone in the last year. I've had mine for a year and have had 0 issues.

A quick search on VW, GTI or the 2.0 engine brings up countless reliability reports, none of it good. Same goes for Consumer Reports and other types of publications. I haven't seen near the same amount of issues with the Speed3.

Perhaps you got a good one, but I'll go with the numbers on this. Have any information to support this reliability claim? I'd love to see it because I seriously considered this car. But again every time I personally have looked into it I've been disappointed with what I've found.

I've heard maintenance costs are pretty outrageous, too?... especially for what you get. Like BMW or Mercedes prices.

The GTI definitely does have the most class though, except for maybe the Mini. Although that car's kind of in a class of it's own, easily the coolest car of the bunch.

[HP2133]

The V6 Camaro uses a 3.6-litre engine producing an estimated 300 horsepower and 27x lb-ft of torque, with six-speed manual transmission or optional six-speed automatic.

Price will be around $27 thousands for this V6 / get this instead of SS

[A790]

I think the SS is a decent looking car, and it's value can't really be beat right now. If I were looking for that type of vehicle that's exactly what I'd get.

A V6 Camaro? Fuck that.

[HP2133]

300 HP and close torque

similar specs to G37 / STi / Evo at discounted price

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


A quick search on VW, GTI or the 2.0 engine brings up countless reliability reports, none of it good. Same goes for Consumer Reports and other types of publications. I haven't seen near the same amount of issues with the Speed3.

Perhaps you got a good one, but I'll go with the numbers on this. Have any information to support this reliability claim? I'd love to see it because I seriously considered this car. But again every time I personally have looked into it I've been disappointed with what I've found.

I've heard maintenance costs are pretty outrageous, too?... especially for what you get. Like BMW or Mercedes prices.

The GTI definitely does have the most class though, except for maybe the Mini. Although that car's kind of in a class of it's own, easily the coolest car of the bunch.

VW's and reliability should never be used in the same sentence.
My buddy has an '08 GTI, and while they are nice cars, with great styling I dont find they are anything to phone home about per 'se.
Reliability is a HUGE thing for me, and VW has never had that going for them except for rare exceptions.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by mslbebiz


A quick search on VW, GTI or the 2.0 engine brings up countless reliability reports, none of it good. Same goes for Consumer Reports and other types of publications. I haven't seen near the same amount of issues with the Speed3.

Perhaps you got a good one, but I'll go with the numbers on this. Have any information to support this reliability claim? I'd love to see it because I seriously considered this car. But again every time I personally have looked into it I've been disappointed with what I've found.

I've heard maintenance costs are pretty outrageous, too?... especially for what you get. Like BMW or Mercedes prices.

The GTI definitely does have the most class though, except for maybe the Mini. Although that car's kind of in a class of it's own, easily the coolest car of the bunch.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/06/000_08jdpoweriqs.jpg

I am not saying GTI is the most reliable car but I wouldn't call the MS3 that much more reliable. Check here for most common issues.

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?board=1032.0

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3366754

[corsvette]

I am SOOOO tempted to go test drive a new cobalt ss this week,i have driven the supercharged version and almost bought a used one.Have any of you driven the turbo yet?

[HP2133]

While living in Europe, our VolksWagens were amazing little cars / reliable, too.

Eversince we moved to NA, we keep hearing about issues and there are MANY. Why is that, are they made in Mexico or some God forsaken place like that ?

[88jbody]

I don't mind the looks of the ss turbo, not sexy, but it looks ok. I like the turbo over the supercharger from the earlier ones, and if they offer a few upgrades it will be a great buy.

but the selling point to me is launch control and no lift shifting. would be fun as hell to drive

[Aleks]

Originally posted by 88jbody
I don't mind the looks of the ss turbo, not sexy, but it looks ok. I like the turbo over the supercharger from the earlier ones, and if they offer a few upgrades it will be a great buy.

but the selling point to me is launch control and no lift shifting. would be fun as hell to drive

SS is a performance bargain for sure. It's all about what you want. I wanted a more luxurious car that had lots of features and performance to go along with it.

BTW the GTI has both the launch control and no lift shifting ;)

[gpomp]

Originally posted by Aleks
no lift shifting ;) you mean automatic

[corsvette]

Correct me if i am wrong,but i think '"no lift shifting"means you just floor the gas while shifting (powershift)but it does not destroy the trans/clutch.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by gpomp
you mean automatic

2 clutches > 1

[88jbody]

Originally posted by gpomp
you mean automatic
no,
you tube it there are videos on there of people using it

the ecu limits the RPM so as to not destroy anything and maintains boost during the shift.

so when turned on floor it at a stop dump clutch never lift right foot untill you want to stop

[Mibz]

Originally posted by corsvette
Correct me if i am wrong,but i think '"no lift shifting"means you just floor the gas while shifting (powershift)but it does not destroy the trans/clutch. It's still hard on the tranny, but they'll warranty yours if it grenades ;)

[Aleks]

Originally posted by 88jbody

no,
you tube it there are videos on there of people using it

the ecu limits the RPM so as to not destroy anything and maintains boost during the shift.

so when turned on floor it at a stop dump clutch never lift right foot untill you want to stop

He was responding to me. Making fun of my automatic transmission in the GTI that does the same thing only better.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Aleks


He was responding to me. Making fun of my automatic transmission in the GTI that does the same thing only better.

dude... if the GTI had an LSD, more aggressive suspension and more power... I'd get a DSG one in a heartbeat

this GTI does exist, but in europe as a 230/260hp 2.0L

I'm hard pressed to buy a GTI, then void warranty with a APR chip, lowering kit and aftermarket lsd

[mslbebiz]

Both myself and it seems the OP have driven the new SS/TC. It was definitely impressive, especially the handling. The drivetrain was good too - the engine is getting great reviews and pulls hard through the entire rev range, all the way to redline. The power delivery is very linear, although I thought it 'may' have seemed like it wasn't too eager to rev. I didn't have long to drive the car though and it was at the end of a long work day so my senses were slightly dulled lol.

The clutch had good take-up and combined with the gearbox was very easy to shift. I found the 5spd box pretty good, and I actually prefer a 5spd over most 6's, this one included.

The car also has quite a good exhaust note, and it sounds great with an aftermarket exhaust. Here's a clip of the HHR SS (same drivetrain) with a Magnaflow system - sounds a lot like the old SRT-4's: http://www.magnaflow.com/04sound/sportsound/08HHR/08HHR.html

Stock vs stock it's not quite as good as the Speed3 -- that thing sounds awesome right out of the box -- but it's up there.

The seats are also very well bolstered and comfortable, and hold you tight with no slipping in the seat. The small, thick rimmed leather-wrapped steering wheel was also nice to work with. The Pioneer stereo was decent as well. I did find the driving position a little awkward though, similar to the GTI. But I'm 6'1 so your experience may differ there.

I also didn't find the interior all that bad either, but you do know you're not in a GTI or anything similar.

The biggest impression I got from the car was how easy it was to drive fast. Also how comfortable and dare I say refined the driving experience was for such a highly-tuned 4 cyl sports car.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Forgot to add, since I was on a test drive I didn't do any launches or no lift shifts so I can't comment there. But II've heard it's a lot of fun :D

[Aleks]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


dude... if the GTI had an LSD, more aggressive suspension and more power... I'd get a DSG one in a heartbeat

this GTI does exist, but in europe as a 230/260hp 2.0L

I'm hard pressed to buy a GTI, then void warranty with a APR chip, lowering kit and aftermarket lsd

Sounds like the SS is exactly what you're looking for and for the price of a loaded Corolla too! :thumbsup: I'd say go for it!

[heavyD]

I don't need to hear the pros and cons or arguments as I do tonnes of research. Of that list the GTI is by far the best of the lot. If money is an issue though I don't think you can go wrong with the SS.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by nbaker00

On a side note, I was really dissapointed with the Neon SRT4's performance.

Curious. It's faster than all the cars listed. The engine was the best part of the car as it pulled hard. I could understand if you were disappointed with the interior, or quality, etc. but performance per dollar that car was fantastic.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by heavyD
I don't need to hear the pros and cons or arguments as I do tonnes of research. Of that list the GTI is by far the best of the lot. If money is an issue though I don't think you can go wrong with the SS.

It's the little things in the GTI like the 2 stage turn signal stalk. Every time I drive a car without one now it's annoying. It's a sweet convenience. The auto up and down windows on ALL four corners, controls that light up all all four doors, the 5 stage heated seats, dual zone auto climate...but then again it's a lot more expensive than the SS.

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by Aleks


I am not saying GTI is the most reliable car but I wouldn't call the MS3 that much more reliable. Check here for most common issues.

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?board=1032.0

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3366754

Most of the problems for the Mazdaspeed3 were on earlier models, mostly to due with a weak motor mount. After market motor mounts are super easy to install and on average are around $150. There's also been some reports of smoking turbos for the 2006-2007 Speed3s when an aftermarket downpipe is added.

For the above poster that said Speed3s are notoriously hard to tune, where did you get that info from? If anything, it's easy to get ridiculous gains from simple bolt-ons.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by BananaFob
For the above poster that said Speed3s are notoriously hard to tune, where did you get that info from? If anything, it's easy to get ridiculous gains from simple bolt-ons. Bolt-ons are not tuning. From what I've read, DI cars are harder to tune.

EDIT: After more reading, yeah, it seems to be largely because of unfamiliarity but DI vehicles are currently REALLY hard to tune.

[mslbebiz]

So I'm strongly considering one of these, it's just over $24k out the door with the options I want. Although I am going to test drive the new 3dr Astra before I make any decisions, they're offering significant discounts on those, too, and they look incredible.

The big question for the Cobalt SS, coupe or sedan?

[gpomp]

sedan ftw

[corsvette]

The sedan that road and track tested looks pretty sweet,i like the roofline on the sedan and the coupe,not crazy about the coupes tailights though.

[mslbebiz]

Here's a couple pics for quick reference:

Sedan:
http://images.myride.com/images/vehicle/2009/Chevrolet/Cobalt/oem/09_Chevrolet_Cobalt_SS_Sedan_1_(768x576).jpg

Coupe:
http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/96350/2008-Chevrolet-Cobalt-SS-i009.jpg

[Aleks]

Originally posted by mslbebiz
So I'm strongly considering one of these, it's just over $24k out the door with the options I want. Although I am going to test drive the new 3dr Astra before I make any decisions, they're offering significant discounts on those, too, and they look incredible.

The big question for the Cobalt SS, coupe or sedan?

get the sedan and put a little green E sticker on the back haha. Such a sleeper.

BTW what significants discounts are there on the Astra? It's an interesting car but not for mid 20s. Maybe for mid teens??

[mslbebiz]

^ On the Astra's it's 0% financing for 60mths on '09's, or rebate of $3,500 - $4,500 on '09's, or rebate of $4,000 - $5,000 on remaining '08's -- both with 71mth or greater bank financing.

That's a good deal on what's a fantastic looking, well made German built car with excellent handling. Puts a full load minus auto tranny around $21k (2008) - $22k (2009) out the door. That's with the 18" 5 spoke alloys and performance tires, premium audio system, and heated leather seats.

[Destinova403]

Originally posted by mslbebiz

well made German built car .

Belgian :D

[GTI_Fahrenheit]

Originally posted by Aleks


It's the little things in the GTI like the 2 stage turn signal stalk. Every time I drive a car without one now it's annoying. It's a sweet convenience. The auto up and down windows on ALL four corners, controls that light up all all four doors, the 5 stage heated seats, dual zone auto climate...but then again it's a lot more expensive than the SS.

:clap: :clap: