We're The Big Three. We Don't Need to Compete.

[Ferio_vti]

http://www.treehugger.com/20081209-the-bailout-shitty-cars.jpg

[adam c]

i'm not a supporter of ford but they aren't taking the bailout package unless the other 2 go under

[Mr_ET]

Ford has actually done a decent job in the last 2 years at turning things around and will be coming out with better products in the years to come.

GM and Chrysler... not so much.

Poster is pretty good btw

[ShelbyMopar]

lol @ imports getting better milage...

Too bad they have some of the worst in class in a couple segments.

I believe it was the Tundra in the full size truck class, and the Armada in the full size SUV class.

Can't win them all I guess. :clap:

The gap for quality/milage/etc is closing between imports and domestics, we're not in the 80's and 90's anymore.

Funny nonetheless :rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

:rofl:

[yue]

"Either way, we're cool" :rofl:

[94boosted]

Lol :D that was good

[Eleanor]

I love how they try to rip into domestics for reliability and fuel economy but then bring up people would rather get a Subaru

:rofl:

[rockanrepublic]

buahah nice i hope china buys em

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Eleanor
I love how they try to rip into domestics for reliability and fuel economy but then bring up people would rather get a Subaru

:rofl:

Hey, what's wrong with Subarus?

[Destinova403]

LOL...

its funny... but ignorance is bliss

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Hey, what's wrong with Subarus?
Oh, I don't know. They aren't very reliable and they drink gas? :dunno:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Canmorite


Hey, what's wrong with Subarus?

They aren't very fuel efficient compared to the competition and reliability especially on 08+ models has been terrible.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Mr_ET
Ford has actually done a decent job in the last 2 years at turning things around and will be coming out with better products in the years to come.

GM and Chrysler... not so much.

Poster is pretty good btw

Name one car that Ford has come out with in the last 2 years that has been ground breaking.

[Preslow]

new GM's are getting better. Pretty much their cars only though.
Ford from 2006 on has been actually quite stellar
Chrysler is shit and will always be shit
none of these cars though get the similar gas mileage though for econo box's or even sedans like an import, like a Toyota for example. saddening.

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by benyl


Name one car that Ford has come out with in the last 2 years that has been ground breaking.

The ford EDGE!

ha ha

[revelations]

New Fucus? :zzz:

[shin0bi]

GM has made massive turnarounds. Most of their product lineup is just as good if not better than anything Japan or Europe is currently cranking out. But you and I only know that because we're automotive enthusiasts and keep watch over industry happenings.

Too many people out there still have bad memories about their old Reliant Ks and Pintos, and Sunbirds to consider going domestic. It also seems like the cool thing to do for kids to sip the haterade and diss on anything that comes from an english speaking country.
Public perception is what's really hurting domestic brands.

To GM's credit, they've recently come out and admitted appologetically that they have been cranking out sub-par vehicles, and deliberately biased their product lines to big, gawdy things like SUVS and trucks.


Lets not kid ourselves though. Most automakers have reported losses for the past few months. Some are significant. Even Toyota has had massive drops in sales. The lousy economy is scaring many people into not buying vehicles, even though now is a GREAT time to buy, since dealers are doing anything to sell their cars. And gas prices are the best they've been in a few years.

DO YOUR PART FOR THE ECONOMY PEOPLE! BUY A CAR!

[shin0bi]

Also to rebuttle a statement made above, FORD doesn't really have much going for it in its lineup that's groundbreaking (or even exciting) besides the Mustang GT in all its variants. That's really the ONLY Ford I'd consider getting. And it would be second choice to something like a 370z.

If Ford were smart, they would have brought over the stuff they had in the UK that people actually LIKE over there. Vehicles that, as weird as they look, still have more aesthetic appeal than the new Focus.

That all said, in terms of quality, Ford's rockin' the almighty casbah compared to a few years back.
And the 2008 Mustang GT Convertible scored a 5 star side impact crash test rating... Very very few convertibles can claim that.

[Meridian]

Save Celine buy a Chrysler.

[Preslow]

Originally posted by shin0bi
GM has made massive turnarounds. Most of their product lineup is just as good if not better than anything Japan or Europe is currently cranking out.

proof please

Ford's three nameplates lead the domestic automakers, with almost all Ford products now average or better. GM has a few bright spots such as the four-cylinder Malibu and Pontiac G6, but halo cars like the Cadillac CTS and the Lambda crossovers are still rated below average. Chrysler... Well... Two-thirds of current Chrysler products are rated below average, with the only models rated above average being the Dodge Caliber and Jeep Patriot. Chrysler is also home to the worst car CR collected data on this year: The Sebring convertible, a car that Dan Neil of the Los Angeles Times called "not just bad, but a veritable chalice of wretchedness, a rattling, thumping, lolling tragedy of a car", had reliability 283% worse than average.

[Rarasaurus]

Originally posted by shin0bi
Also to rebuttle a statement made above, FORD doesn't really have much going for it in its lineup that's groundbreaking (or even exciting) besides the Mustang GT in all its variants. That's really the ONLY Ford I'd consider getting. And it would be second choice to something like a 370z.

If Ford were smart, they would have brought over the stuff they had in the UK that people actually LIKE over there. Vehicles that, as weird as they look, still have more aesthetic appeal than the new Focus.

I'm sure many people are scared to buy but at the same time the past few years has seen record purchases of cars when the economy was great. This means many people have newer cars which is pretty clear when you drive around Calgary. Prices are good right now but with so many newer vehicles on the road it is hard to keep people buying..

[Meridian]

Ya. With the exception of Chrysler, the big three suck compared to the japanese market.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Ive heard that Ford will be brining all their euro cars here within the next 3 years. Cant wait!

[Mr_ET]

Originally posted by benyl


Name one car that Ford has come out with in the last 2 years that has been ground breaking.

I can name none I wasn't saying their current cars are better I was saying they are turning things around internally restructuring cutting some of the bad out and doing the prep work to fianlly bring in some decent cars like the euro Focus and the new Fiesta, Maybe even the Mondeo.

I am not a Ford fan but they actually have some decent products in other countries that they could really use here right about now.

[Ferio_vti]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ive heard that Ford will be brining all their euro cars here within the next 3 years. Cant wait!

If GM's Opel lineup is any indication, Ford's Euro cars will still have some trouble appealing to the average American.

[97'Scort]

Originally posted by Mr_ET
I am not a Ford fan but they actually have some decent products in other countries that they could really use here right about now.
For sure. Their Aussie stuff looks fantastic, and the Fiesta...it's a great little car. German built too, right?

[HiTempguy1]

If GM's Opel lineup is any indication

The Astra they gave us here is neutered and not that good of a deal. Of course it sold terribly!

If an Astra was around (mabye a bit more) the cost of a Colbalt SS/T (and had the turbo motor which it DOES in europe), do you really think anyone would be buying the cobalt? Hell no. GM screwed up, ONCE AGAIN.

[97'Scort]

^In all fairness to GM, when they bought the Astra in the front impact law was still in place and the turbo Astra wouldn't have passed.

[Destinova403]

^^ most of the problems have to do with importing... no matter how high demand for the Astra is... it is suffering from weak marketing and high import costs (built in Belgium)

its for those reasons that they are only able to sell a couple thousand a year

and to "Preslow" the CTS is among the top of its class, especially the CTS-V...

the biggest problem that the big 3 are having right now is that people are ignorant to the improvements that they have made... and nobody is willing to go check out their new products.

[Preslow]

Originally posted by Destinova403
^^ most of the problems have to do with importing... no matter how high demand for the Astra is... it is suffering from weak marketing and high import costs (built in Belgium)

its for those reasons that they are only able to sell a couple thousand a year

and to "Preslow" the CTS is among the top of its class, especially the CTS-V...

the biggest problem that the big 3 are having right now is that people are ignorant to the improvements that they have made... and nobody is willing to go check out their new products.

your cts-v bud might not be along much longer:
Emergency talks breakdown on the bailout:
Workers union won't give in and reduce wages.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/11122008/2/biz-finance-emergency-senate-talks-14-billion-auto-aid-deal.html

[arian_ma]

Man it's kind of sad to see these companies struggle so hard...imagine how many people's lives are miserable right now because they are constantly worrying about wtf they're going to do for a living...

[ShelbyMopar]

Originally posted by Destinova403


the biggest problem that the big 3 are having right now is that people are ignorant to the improvements that they have made... and nobody is willing to go check out their new products.

Totally agree.

American cars have gone WAY up in quality, many models arguably on par with Japanese rival models.

But alot of bad history and misrepresentation can go a long way.

If I'm looking to buy a car, I check out EVERY vehicle in that class, check reviews, road tests, prices, etc. I don't give a shit if it's an import or domestic personally. Whatever is the better bang for the buck (or usually more often then not, performance/$) car, thats usually the one I end up choosing.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ive heard that Ford will be brining all their euro cars here within the next 3 years. Cant wait!
Check out beyond.ca front page and go back a couple. I posted up their new line up coming over.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Eleanor

Oh, I don't know. They aren't very reliable and they drink gas? :dunno:



Originally posted by heavyD


They aren't very fuel efficient compared to the competition and reliability especially on 08+ models has been terrible.

I'd say they're reliable, my family is on there 5th. They do like gas though, especially the WRX.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Destinova403
the biggest problem that the big 3 are having right now is that people are ignorant to the improvements that they have made... and nobody is willing to go check out their new products.

I think this is false. People are not stupid. Proof? The new Chevy Malibu and the Buick Enclave. Heck, even the Ford Fusion caught my eye (and I hate Ford). Why? Because they are great looking cars and are well built. So what is really the problem? Most of their products are still crap and overpriced (oh and I'll throw the fucking union in there too).

Build a great car, and people will buy it. Heck, even Top Gear finally praised American cars. CTS-V and ZR1 yes, but not sure about the Charger haha.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Canmorite
I'd say they're reliable, my family is on there 5th. They do like gas though, especially the WRX.

Their 5th 08+ or fifth Subaru over 10 years? The 08+ have been so bad that I will probably have to cross off any Subaru's from my list when I purchase a new car next year which is too bad because I was pretty serious about getting one. 2.5L turbo Engine failures (more than I have ever seen from a manufacturer) galore on 08/09's. Transmission failures, terrible paint, the interior developes so many interior rattles (hatchback especially) that some guys on NASIOC have had to pull every interior panel off and install sound deadening. I'm a NASOIC member and since joining I have seen more people on that site having problems with their new Subarus than any car site I've ever been a member of including SRT-4 and old DSM's even. Pretty dissapointing given how Subaru fanboys always claim how reliable they are.

[YamahaV8]

All said and done it is to late. The import companies have gotten their foothold. People are too biased towards imports now for the domestic companies to recover. The big three have shot themselves in the foot.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by heavyD


Their 5th 08+ or fifth Subaru over 10 years? The 08+ have been so bad that I will probably have to cross off any Subaru's from my list when I purchase a new car next year which is too bad because I was pretty serious about getting one. 2.5L turbo Engine failures (more than I have ever seen from a manufacturer) galore on 08/09's. Transmission failures, terrible paint, the interior developes so many interior rattles (hatchback especially) that some guys on NASIOC have had to pull every interior panel off and install sound deadening. I'm a NASOIC member and since joining I have seen more people on that site having problems with their new Subarus than any car site I've ever been a member of including SRT-4 and old DSM's even. Pretty dissapointing given how Subaru fanboys always claim how reliable they are.

They have an 03 WRX Hatch and an 02 Outback H6 Wagon. I've heard the same things about the 08+ models unfortunately. Pretty sad shit.