Massive Israeli air raids on Gaza

[pyroza]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm

200 killed, 700 injured :eek:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Dont these people ever get tired of fighting, these Israelis just dont give up.

[ZEDGE]

Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel.. do they ever learn? No, I think mice are smarter.

[BigMass]

tiss the season for ethnic cleansing

[Canmorite]

Religion, anyone?

[b_t]

I don't know why they bother to fuck with Israel... they've proven time and time again they can annihilate anyone who comes after them.

[SCHIDER23]

:werd: oh well let the killing begin once again sadly . :(

[Zephyr]

talk about happy holidays and happy new year....

[rps13_sx]

"we bow only before god"
"there would be no white flags and no surrender"

fuck israel

[Supa Dexta]

^ :rofl:

If you kept poking me time and time again, and I told you to stop over and over until I finally smashed you, its my fault right... :nut:

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by rps13_sx
"we bow only before god"
"there would be no white flags and no surrender"

fuck israel

How are them rockets working out?

[CUG]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
^ :rofl:

If you kept poking me time and time again, and I told you to stop over and over until I finally smashed you, its my fault right... :nut:

Exactly.

Fuck Hamas and their supporters.

[rps13_sx]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


How are them rockets working out?
how is beheading working out for you?

[?????]

Originally posted by rps13_sx
"we bow only before god"
"there would be no white flags and no surrender"

fuck israel



Originally posted by rps13_sx

how is beheading working out for you?

you have your sides mixed up.

[old&slow]

It's only rare that the bad guys get killed. I feel bad for the regular folks on both sides that lose loved ones. It's simply cruel...

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Religion, anyone?
Couldn't possibly agree more.

:nut:

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by rps13_sx

how is beheading working out for you?

Wat

[CUG]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Religion, anyone? Umm... this ones a territorial battle guys :facepalm:

[FlySi]

Israel (zionists in occupied palestinian land) = Terrorists

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by rps13_sx

how is beheading working out for you?

Reported.. terrorist

[top_speed]

^ sarcasm detector broken :rofl:

[rps13_sx]

Originally posted by ZEDGE


Reported.. terrorist
u r a terrorist

[CUG]

Originally posted by rps13_sx

u r a terrorist u r an infidel

[1997GSR]

All these Hamas guys have giant hardons right now. Fucking animals love this shit.

Israel fucked shit up

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by CUG
Umm... this ones a territorial battle guys :facepalm:

Over what? Longly disputed religous holy land?

[l/l/rX]

i like how theres massive destruction in gaza, people crying, dying, huge cluster fucks of disorganized people, then they report that the hamas launched retaliation attacks and they show a 3 ft wide hole in the side of building on the Israeli side. w00t!

these guys really just dont give up.

[R154]

The fight will never end, these people are willing to die for their cause.

Its easy to find a reason to live for, But one to die for? well. You cant easyly be swayed.

[YamahaV8]

Originally posted by rps13_sx

u r a terrorist

Awesome comeback. You couldn't even take the time to fully type "you are" in a 4 word comment. :facepalm:

[billy36]

Originally posted by R154
The fight will never end, these people are willing to die for their cause.

Its easy to find a reason to live for, But one to die for? well. You cant easyly be swayed.

Even if someone is willing to die, they still need the money to buy/build a bomb, buy or build a weapon, and that makes you wonder who is paying and what are the motives and whether they are just rulers of countries like Iran and Syria living off the misery of people held hostage by their affiliate Hamas. Saddam Hussein used to offer $10,000 and upped it to $25,000 for the "cause", any higher bidder?


Its not that hard to find someone who is willing to die for anything as long as you have the right circumstances, offer the right price, and when he is dead, you call him a martyr.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Dont these people ever get tired of fighting, these Israelis just dont give up.

Gazans are confined to their concentration camp, and unable to get themselves out, or food and medicine in. Reporters and human rights organizations are given little, if any access to the inside. The ongoing starvation and airstrikes they suffer go underreported, but their feeble attempts at striking back make front page news and are used as justification for another round of inflicting death and suffering upon them.

Sadly, I don't think things are going to work out for the Gazans. At this point, the Israelis have left them limited choices: Slow attrition by open conflict, or slower attrition by starvation.


Sad.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by top_speed
^ sarcasm detector broken :rofl:

Mines fine, its yours that appears to be broken.. ;)

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Canmorite
Religion, anyone?
:werd:

:banghead:

[billy36]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


Gazans are confined to their concentration camp, and unable to get themselves out, or food and medicine in. Reporters and human rights organizations are given little, if any access to the inside. The ongoing starvation and airstrikes they suffer go underreported, but their feeble attempts at striking back make front page news and are used as justification for another round of inflicting death and suffering upon them.

Sadly, I don't think things are going to work out for the Gazans. At this point, the Israelis have left them limited choices: Slow attrition by open conflict, or slower attrition by starvation.


Sad.
It is Hamas that is holding its own people hostage. Remember that Palestinians in the west bank largely live in peace, they work in Israel and many of them have an Israeli citizenship.

Hamas rejected peace treaties signed by their former leaders, and declared that it has only one target which is to wipe Israel off the face of the planet. Ended the truce brokered by the Egyptians unilaterally and decided its time to fire some rockets into Israel, how do you want Israel to respond??

Why wouldn't Gazans leave Gaza to the west bank? the answer is that Hamas won't let them.

The following is a reminder of what happened 18 months ago:

"at least 70 Palestinians were killed, and 180 more were wounded"


When you read this paragraph, what is the first thing that jumps into your mind, bloody Israel :whipped: , right?

No, here is the full story http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1633072,00.html

[bashir26]

Originally posted by billy36

It is Hamas that is holding its own people hostage. Remember that Palestinians in the west largely live in peace, they work in Israel and may of them have an Israeli citizenship.

Hamas rejected peace treaties signed by their former leaders, and declared that it has only one target which is to wipe Israel off the face of the planet. Ended the truce brokered by the Egyptians unilaterally and decided its time to fire some rockets into Israel, how do you want Israel to respond??

Why wouldn't Gazans leave Gaza to the west bank? the answer is that Hamas won't let them.

The following is a reminder of what happened 18 months ago:

"at least 70 Palestinians were killed, and 180 more were wounded"


When you read this paragraph, what is the first thing that jumps into your mind, bloody Israel :whipped: , right?

No, here is the full story http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1633072,00.html

This happened last year. Fatah had relations with Mossad and Hamas didn't like that. It was a civil war. It's over.

[CUG]

Originally posted by YamahaV8


Awesome comeback. You couldn't even take the time to fully type "you are" in a 4 word comment. :facepalm: Awesome post, you totally saw that I responded to an idiot who couldn't do any better - in the same fashion. You fucking rock for not catching that.

[7thgenvic]

let them drop the bombs! Nothing is going to change for a LONGGG TIME.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
let them drop the bombs! Nothing is going to change for a LONGGG TIME.

You'd think that sooner or later both sides would figure out if they stopped killing each other, nobody would be dieing and everyone could live their little lives :nut:

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by billy36
Remember that Palestinians in the west bank largely live in peace, they work in Israel and many of them have an Israeli citizenship.

Actually, I remember it much differently.

When I was in the West Bank, all I saw were villages blocked in by giant concrete blocks the Israeli's had dumped acrosstheir roads. I remember villagers being tear gassed and shot at when they tried to work their fields. I remember villagers being randomly killed by the incessant sniper fire from "Settlements" on surrounding hilltops. I remember larger towns completely paralyzed by Israeli snipers on rooftops. I remember townspeople being killed by the Tanks sitting on hilltops and spraying the towns with 50-cal fire. It's amazing what anti-vehicular fire does to the body of a person. Particularly small ones.

It don't remember it being peaceful. Nor do I remember meeting any West Bankers with Isreali citizenship or employment. I remember a sadistic pressure cooker of ongoing attrition. I remember people who somehow managed to carry on despite living in a situation that can only be described as insane.

I don't know where you got your memories from, but they sound far more pleasant than my own.



< Remainder of your lies trimmed >

[SJW]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[01RedDX]

.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

I could bet money right now that you, and your hateful little heart have never even set foot near the west bank or Israel you miserable liar.

Excellent. I will gladly take you up on your offer of a wager. I generally try to avoid lunatics such as yourself, but don't mind risking the exposure if you can make it worth my while.

How does $500 work for you?

[Legless_Marine2]

In the last 3 years, Israel has taken ~90 casualties - Palestinians have lost ~1200.

Who's killing who again?

[Toma]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2
In the last 3 years, Israel has taken ~90 casualties - Palestinians have lost ~1200.

Who's killing who again?

That's at a minimum for Palestinian losses... the ratio has always been at LEAST 10:1....

Seems to escape the morons that argue in favour if Israel.

What surprises me is the cover of the Sun today... normally a US/Conservative oriented paper suitable for asswipe, the headline is big and bold and says...

Gaza Massacre

[Isaiah]

bxcaF7hPvpY


Travolta basically illustrates the Israeli mindset. At 1:37. "They bomb a church, we bomb 10; they hijack a plane, we take out an airport; they execute an American tourist, we tactically nuke an entire city..."

The reason the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli losses is 10:1 is because Israel hits back 10 times as hard in the hope that one day the Palestinians will stop instigating.

I'm not taking sides. What I'm saying is when the little grade 7 freshman throws rocks at the high school football team, some degree of serious retaliation should be anticipated.

[method]

The BBC has, in the past number of years, been extremely critical of Israel in comparison to US news corps like CNN (which is of no surprise)...

but you're right in seeing a slight shift in traditionally pro-israel news outlets - I personally think it has something to do with the emerging media consensus over the past few years that Iraq (and thus middle eastern nation building/etc.) was/is a mistake.

The militarist elements of the Israeli government can only massacre Palestinians for so long before the rest of the world becomes increasingly unsympathetic to their 'defense'.

I hope that the loss of life will continue to wake people up.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Isaiah
Travolta basically illustrates the Israeli mindset. At 1:37. &quot;They bomb a church, we bomb 10; they hijack a plane, we take out an airport; they execute an American tourist, we tactically nuke an entire city...&quot;

The reason the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli losses is 10:1 is because Israel hits back 10 times as hard in the hope that one day the Palestinians will stop instigating.

I'm not taking sides. What I'm saying is when the little grade 7 freshman throws rocks at the high school football team, some degree of serious retaliation should be anticipated. [/B]
Ahhh, but you are assuming the chicken came before the egg.

In this case.... the egg came first.....

And, one group imprisons, torments, tortures, humiliates, starves and slaughters the other.

So, yes, you are taking sides.... and the wrong side.

[01RedDX]

.

[billy36]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


&lt; Remainder of your lies trimmed &gt;


You call them lies, I call them historical facts.

Here are some more of my lies:

"The Palestinian death toll in 11 days of fighting was estimated at 3,400, though Arafat claimed that 20,000 had been killed."



let me repeat the same question, when you read this paragraph, what is the first thing that jumps into your mind, bloody Israel, right?

No, here is the full story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

What did Palestinians do to Jordan, the country that hosted them as refugees, gave them homes and jobs? nice read eh.



History doesn't lie, and that is Arab on Arab history, no Israelis there, right?? Just one of many testimonies to reality.

Can't put it any clearer than Mr. Tal had put it "Palestinians are murderers, they believe only in fire and destruction".

[method]

Nothing like letting an argument dissolve into racism to prove how stupid this situation is.

[Hamann]

Its a Pretty messed up world when this really doesnt come as a suprise. Guess what, they are 2 religions that dont like each other, and really the people taking sides can lie to themselves all they want, neither side is full of saints. Both have done some seriously bad shit. But as it goes right now it aint gonna stop anytime soon.

From the Israeli side its easy to understand, you shoot at rocket at my house i'm gonna be pissed, and especially if i have the means (like they do) i'm sure as hell going to make your ass pay, if that means taking out your whole block, then i guess it would suck to be your neighbour.

From the Palestinian side its more of the same, you killed my ____ (Insert - Mom/Brother/Sister/Dad/All of the Above) I'm gonna use any means at my disposal to get back at you, sucks for them that they dont have equal access to weapons etc but they do have numbers on their side.

Its a Self Perpetuating cycle, and Fighting wars over religion is inherently stupid, lets kill each other cause i think my invisible friend is better than yours.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Hamann


Its a Self Perpetuating cycle, and Fighting wars over religion is inherently stupid, lets kill each other cause i think my invisible friend is better than yours.

Sums it up right there.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by billy36

No, here is the full story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

What did Palestinians do to Jordan, the country that hosted them as refugees, gave them homes and jobs? nice read eh.


That's an interesting read. Seems the Palestinians are no better than the Israelis after all.

[7thgenvic]

Originally posted by Hamann

Its a Self Perpetuating cycle, and Fighting wars over religion is inherently stupid, lets kill each other cause i think my invisible friend is better than yours.

Agreed! But wait I feel Toma has more to add to this thread :)

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic

I feel Toma has more to add to this thread :)

Of course. Toma is salivating at the mouth to spread his political propaganda. I had actually typed out a 4 paragraph rebuttal to his reply to my post and then decided that posting it was a waste of time as he's so brainwashed that it won't make a difference. What else could you expect from a pro-Chavez fanatic.

Whichever side you support, the fact remains that Hamas is a terrorist organization hellbent on the destruction of Israel, and they will take continue to perpetuate their hatred towards the Jews.

[1997GSR]

hamas kids checking in

http://www.worldsecuritynetwork.com/ArticleImages/hamas_child_web.jpg

http://www.aetherometry.com/Electronic_Publications/Philosophy/AS1-06/images/hamas_child_bombers.jpg

http://crusaderherald.com/images/child-of-hamas.jpg

[method]

Originally posted by Isaiah

Whichever side you support, the fact remains that Hamas is a terrorist organization hellbent on the destruction of Israel, and they will take continue to perpetuate their hatred towards the Jews.

That, and the militaristic/zionist elements of the Israeli government are hellbent on the destruction of anyone that opposes their control of all land that isn't theirs for the taking, and will kill civilian men/women/children in order to achieve their aims.

[01RedDX]

.

[Seanith]

You don't fuck around with Israel. When will they learn? Let sleeping dogs lie.

[bashir26]

.

[bashir26]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Perhaps that will be made clear once Hamas stops firing rockets at them.

Hama's aren't the ones that broke the past two peace treaties.

[1997GSR]

Originally posted by bashir26


Hama's aren't the ones that broke the past two peace treaties.

Hmm... what about this current one?

[Supa Dexta]

This smiley best describes what goes on over there.

:whocares:

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by bashir26


Hama's aren't the ones that broke the past two peace treaties.

Is that right? Check your sources bro. You've been watching too much Al Jazeera.

[Xtrema]

It's been too long. I don't care who's right or wrong or who started it at this point. If ethnic cleansing is a way to do this, lets finish this.

At this rate Palestinian will never change and integrate. Terrorism is just too profitable and already turned into a normal way of life.

Hama wants suffering. They don't want to suppress other terrorist organizations. And they know how to prod Israel to react the way they want. They also know US is down and Obama is the change they need to resume offensive on Israel.

Palestinian got to denounce these organization to gain respect and start to chart their own course. Who give a shit what happens 40 years ago. Israeli wants to make it work, why can't Palestinian show some balls and do the same?

[mazdavirgin]

Even with no backing from the United States Israel would still be doing just fine... They have tactical nuclear missiles and well as seen in Lebanon an air force capable of bombing countries back into the stone age. Anyways Hamas just keeps poking the tiger in the eye and is somehow surprised when it bites their hand off...

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


Originally posted by 01RedDX


I could bet money right now that you, and your hateful little heart have never even set foot near the west bank or Israel you miserable liar.

Excellent. I will gladly take you up on your offer of a wager. I generally try to avoid lunatics such as yourself, but don't mind risking the exposure if you can make it worth my while.

How does $500 work for you?

01RedDX , You have failed to either follow through with your offer of a wager, or to retract your accusation.

You're full of shit. Go away, and stop pretending that you know what you're talking about.

[bashir26]

Originally posted by Isaiah


Is that right? Check your sources bro. You've been watching too much Al Jazeera.

Show me.

[bashir26]

Originally posted by Isaiah


Is that right? Check your sources bro. You've been watching too much Al Jazeera.

Show me.

[hampstor]

Blaming this escalation and war solely on religion alone is incorrect - it is more of a racial war than anything else. No one ever calls it a 'muslim/jewish' war, it's always been Arab/Israeli/Palestinian.

States will go to war for any reason, however it will always at the core be: Politics, Religion, Economics and Race.

It's been nothing but an endless cycle of violence for 2000+ yrs. If you kill someone's family (be it arab or israeli), you can't blame the surviving members for wanting to retaliate - i'm not surprised at all that some are training their kids to hate.

Either one side has to break the cycle and lose a bit of face, or they are going to eventually wipe each other out.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by 1997GSR


Hmm... what about this current one?

Hamas didn't break it, Hamas refused to renew it - And with good reason: Israel didn't cease airstrikes, or open Gaza to medical or food aid.

"Ceasefire" bough them nothing but starvation.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by hampstor
Blaming this escalation and war solely on religion alone is incorrect - it is more of a racial war than anything else. No one ever calls it a 'muslim/jewish' war, it's always been Arab/Israeli/Palestinian.


A valid point. Roughy 5% of Palestinians are Christian.


Originally posted by hampstor
States will go to war for any reason, however it will always at the core be: Politics, Religion, Economics and Race. [/B]

Let's not forget resource and lebensraum. Particularly lebensraum in this case.



Originally posted by hampstor
It's been nothing but an endless cycle of violence for 2000+ yrs. [/B]

Not true. Arabs and Jews lived in (Relative) peace in Palestine for hundreds of years, during the period that there was an Arab majority. There were a few incidents, but nothing persistent or concerted. Nothing even close to the Zionist master plan of ethnic cleansing.

It wasn't until the late 1800's, with the creation of the "Zionist" movement, that Jews began flooding back to Palestine with the singleminded goal of displacing the arabs and creating an exclusively Jewish homeland. Needless to say, the locals took issue with this.

The belief that this has been going on for "2000" years is a Zionist myth, perpetuated to convince people that this is insolvable.

[Toma]

^^^^
Yeah, seems people forget that the number of Jews in Palestine was a meager ~15,000 before 1850, by 1912, it was about 100,000....

After 1948 when Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign (where a million Palestinians were displaced), the population balance greatly shifted again.

The "war" is 100 years old tops.

Israel's Zionists are in the wrong, and need to be tried as war criminals... but that would mean dismantling Israels entire government which is all a bunch of zionists.

[billy36]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


It don't remember it being peaceful. Nor do I remember meeting any West Bankers with Isreali citizenship or employment. I remember a sadistic pressure cooker of ongoing attrition. I remember people who somehow managed to carry on despite living in a situation that can only be described as insane.

I don't know where you got your memories from, but they sound far more pleasant than my own.




Palestinians with Israeli citizenship ???



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Arab citizens comprise almost 20% of the population of Israel. The majority identify themselves as Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship.[5] Many Arab citizens hold a range of ties, including family ties, to Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. There has been relatively greater emphasis on Israeli identity among the Bedouin[6] and Druze, with all of the Druze drafted into compulsory military service[7][8] and a dwindling number of Bedouin volunteering.


http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/palestinians_applying_for_israeli_citizenship_in_droves/

Some 250,000 Palestinians currently reside in Jerusalem. Only 12,000 of them have sought to obtain an Israeli citizenship since 1967, an average of about 300 new citizens a year. But over the past four months the Interior Ministry has registered an unprecedented 3,000 applications, primarily residents of the Arab neighborhoods unlikely to remain under Israeli sovereignty according to the political initiative currently on the agenda.


Palestinians working in Israel ?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

As of October 2007, around 23,000 Palestinians in the West Bank work in Israel every day with another 9,200 working in Israeli settlements. In addition, around 10,000 Palestinian traders from the West Bank are allowed to travel every day into Israel.



Another example of Israel giving Palestinians jobs??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_OHAlh3UDw




B4 and after Intifada ????

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,contentMDK:20285216~isCURL:Y~menuPK:34463~pagePK:64003015~piPK:64003012~theSitePK:4607,00.html


The third in a series of reports that examine the impact of the socio-economic crisis in the West Bank and Gaza, Intifada, Closures and Palestinian Economic Crisis: An Assessment reveals that although the Palestinian economy recovered in 2003, this upturn is short-lived. The economy remains severely depressed compared with the pre-intifada period.

[hampstor]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2

Not true. Arabs and Jews lived in (Relative) peace in Palestine for hundreds of years, during the period that there was an Arab majority. There were a few incidents, but nothing persistent or concerted. Nothing even close to the Zionist master plan of ethnic cleansing.

It wasn't until the late 1800's, with the creation of the &quot;Zionist&quot; movement, that Jews began flooding back to Palestine with the singleminded goal of displacing the arabs and creating an exclusively Jewish homeland. Needless to say, the locals took issue with this.

The belief that this has been going on for &quot;2000&quot; years is a Zionist myth, perpetuated to convince people that this is insolvable.

Thanks for the clarification :angel:

Yeah, you're right - the Palestinians and the British were not happy about the Jews immigrating to the Palestine region. I'd be a bit pissed too if people came to my home, then try to take it from me and create a seperate state.

[black13]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Even with no backing from the United States Israel would still be doing just fine... They have tactical nuclear missiles and well as seen in Lebanon an air force capable of bombing countries back into the stone age. Anyways Hamas just keeps poking the tiger in the eye and is somehow surprised when it bites their hand off...
The fuck? Israel wouldn't even be able to exist today without backing from the US.


Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200 in Aid.

Aid given to other countries since 1949 combined=$9,047,227,200

And I just don't see how killing 160+ people in an air strike can be justified when the enemy is practically using fireworks as rockets that barely even killed 1 person. It's like putting a Lion and a mice in a cage.

[Bimmer88]

This is just insane I guess I will never understand why all this shit is going on...

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by Toma

After 1948 when Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign (where a million Palestinians were displaced), the population balance greatly shifted again.

Very Michael Moore of you to leave out such "non-pertinent details" as the murder of 6,000,000 Jews in the 3 years preceding the occupation. Who could imagine that the remaining Jews would want to find a common place to converge for their own protection?

But of course, you probably think the Holocaust is a zionist myth.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by billy36



Palestinians with Israeli citizenship ???



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Arab citizens comprise almost 20% of the population of Israel. The majority identify themselves as Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship.[5] Many Arab citizens hold a range of ties, including family ties, to Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. There has been relatively greater emphasis on Israeli identity among the Bedouin[6] and Druze, with all of the Druze drafted into compulsory military service[7][8] and a dwindling number of Bedouin volunteering.


You're moving the goalposts. You initially said that many Palestinians * in the west Bank * had Israeli citizenship. This is simply not true. The information you cite above, about Palestinians in Israel proper, is not relevant to your original claim.




Originally posted by billy36


Palestinians working in Israel ?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

As of October 2007, around 23,000 Palestinians in the West Bank work in Israel every day with another 9,200 working in Israeli settlements. In addition, around 10,000 Palestinian traders from the West Bank are allowed to travel every day into Israel.


Wow. That's less than one tenth of 1 percent of West Bank people working in Israel. An insignificant number.

I've met Palestinians who *used to* work in Israel. None of the work was meaningful in any way. All of the jobs were either servile, or quisling, and amounted to little more than exploitation by the Israeli colonizers.


I do commend you, however, for taking the time to try to substantiate your claims.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Isaiah


Very Michael Moore of you to leave out such &quot;non-pertinent details&quot; as the murder of 6,000,000 Jews in the 3 years preceding the occupation. Who could imagine that the remaining Jews would want to find a common place to converge for their own protection?

But of course, you probably think the Holocaust is a zionist myth.
A huh... so the holocaust of one people in another part of the world is justification for another holocaust of an unrelated people in another part of the world?

Fuck me... for a guy "not taking sides", you sure debate with BS and propaganda aimed at inciting an emotional and empathetic response where none is justified or appropriate.

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by Isaiah


Very Michael Moore of you to leave out such &quot;non-pertinent details&quot; as the murder of 6,000,000 Jews in the 3 years preceding the occupation. Who could imagine that the remaining Jews would want to find a common place to converge for their own protection?

But of course, you probably think the Holocaust is a zionist myth.

Zionist debate tactic #412: Invoke the holocaust to deflect discussion about Israeli war crimes.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Toma

you sure debate with BS and propaganda aimed at inciting an emotional and empathetic response where none is justified or appropriate.

:rofl: Coming from anyone else, that post wouldn't have been hilarious.

[revelations]

Originally posted by black13

The fuck? Israel wouldn't even be able to exist today without backing from the US.


True dat




And I just don't see how killing 160+ people in an air strike can be justified when the enemy is practically using fireworks as rockets that barely even killed 1 person. It's like putting a Lion and a mice in a cage.

Israel is not intentionally targeting civilians with their US purchased "fireworks" - Qassams btw come complete with ball-bearings inside to inflict civilian casualties.

And in this case ( as perhaps compared to Lebanon in 06) , of the 300+ people now dead in palestine thus far, vast majority have been militants.

[billy36]

Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


The information you cite above, about Palestinians in Israel proper, is not relevant to your original claim.



Israel proper? so no Arab/Israelies live in the west bank?



Originally posted by Legless_Marine2


Wow. That's less than one tenth of 1 percent of West Bank people working in Israel. An insignificant number.

I've met Palestinians who *used to* work in Israel. None of the work was meaningful in any way. All of the jobs were either servile, or quisling, and amounted to little more than exploitation by the Israeli colonizers.


The workforce figures relate to October 2007, after many years of the Intifada and after Hamas took power, I'm sure no one needs another World Bank report to tell them that these numbers were much higher b4 the intifada and b4 Hamas. You expect the same employment level with guys like the bulldozer driver? actually I’m amazed at the 2007 numbers, you would figure that Israel would not employ any Palestinians and they do have the ability to bring in other nationalities. What you see as Wow, insignificant, I see it as Wow, that is huge given the circumstances. You're saying that the situation in Gaza is as bad as the situation in the West bank, and I simply don't think so.

The world bank clearly compares ugly present with the pre-intifada status. Nothing to be added there.

I don’t see Israelis bombing the West bank, nor do I see Qassam rockets coming out of there either. The way I see it is that peace and trust takes time to build. Stage one is not to fire rockets into Israel and Israel doesn’t bomb you back, that is a start, a base for peace, something they can work from. I’m not saying that the west bank lives in economic prosperity (even though things were definitely better again b4 Intifada), but at least you’re not expecting Israeli retaliation every morning (unless you’re directly involved in a stand-off with the IDF).

You’re portraying the Palestinians as angels and the Israelis as the devils, cool. Since 1948, where did that lead? As long as you’re happy with the result, I guess the short of it is that all the other parties will be happy too, right?

Since we talked about economics and prosperity, let me ask you, if the parties had reached a peace deal in 1979, ..... remember, Arafat, Sadat, Carter, Rabin ..... what would the economic reality for the Palestinians and Israelis be now??

[DayGlow]

Serious question as I don't know the answer. Israel does not completely surround Gaza, so why are they completely blamed for the blockade? Egypt could easily open their border to the flow of aid, but they seem to be part of the blockade, why?

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by billy36


You’re portraying the Palestinians as angels and the Israelis as the devils, cool.

Actually, I'm calling foul on your lies and misrepresentations.

But let's discuss facts, not some Zionist fantasy where Palestinians leave peaceably and prosperously under the occupation.

I see that with your latest post, you've again moved your goalposts. Zionist debate tactic #217.

Seen it all before.

[01RedDX]

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[01RedDX]

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[sillysod]

The middle east = Africa with money.

If they didn't have money to buy decent weapons they would be running around with machetee's chopping each other up and nobody would give a fuck.

[Xtrema]

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2960/israelgazatb3.jpg

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Serious question as I don't know the answer. Israel does not completely surround Gaza, so why are they completely blamed for the blockade? Egypt could easily open their border to the flow of aid, but they seem to be part of the blockade, why?

All the Arab countries only like Palestinians to be a thorn of Israel's side. They won't want any Palestinians on their soils.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
:rofl: Coming from anyone else, that post wouldn't have been hilarious.
:werd: :rofl:

As for the whole debate which has erupted in this thread, both sides are being stupid, Israel just has better weapons. Accusations of ethnic cleansing on the part of Israel are way off base, if they wanted to wipe out all the Palestinians they would've done it a long time ago.

[Gainsbarre]

Interesting article written by an Israeli woman now living in the US:

http://www.counterpunch.com/loewenstein12292008.html



The bombings were timed to cause the maximum number of “enemy” casualties. They occurred at approximately 11:20am on a bustling Saturday morning, just as schools were changing shifts and many children were either leaving for home or coming to afternoon classes; when offices were filled with their employees, and streets busy with the late morning crowds out getting lunch or on quick errands of one sort or another. The day before, Israel had opened some of the crossings into Gaza to let in another trickle of humanitarian aid. ‘See how generous we are to our enemy!’ they exclaim with straight faces to the international media. Each time Gaza reaches the brink of starvation and ruin, they let in just enough food and supplies to silence potential critics. Then the next round begins. It is hardly surprising. After all, this policy was outlined publicly by Dov Weisglass not so long ago when he promised that Israel would put Gaza on a punishing “starvation diet” until it saw reason and evicted its democratically elected government. Many people, including members of the Hamas government, believed that reopening the crossings to international aid signaled another brief lull in military activity, as it usually had, while the IDF General staff prepared its next offensive. In this way were the people and government of Gaza unprepared for the next day’s slaughter






Originally posted by Xtrema


All the Arab countries only like Palestinians to be a thorn of Israel's side. They won't want any Palestinians on their soils.

Unfortunately I believe that to be all too true as well. Except for the woman in my avatar, although I highly doubt that it's purely coincidental that the King of Jordan (then prince) would choose a Palestinian woman to be his wife.

[Toma]

Gaza only borders Egypt for a very small distance. Israel controls that border on and off as it sees fit. Egypt allows aid and supplies on occassion....

I am not sure of the reasoning of egypt not giving Gaza full and open help, I can only assume it is politically motivated.

The current bombing campaign was aimed at the supply routes there as well, destroying tunnels and border crossings between Gaza strip and egypt.

[CUG]

I wanna put a baby up in her guts

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


All I see from you is blind rhetoric. I don't deal with terrorist sympathizers.

Zionist debate tactic # 486: When all else fails, grasp for moral high ground with an obtuse declaration that you don't deal with terrorist sympathizers.


zzz...

[Legless_Marine2]

Originally posted by Toma

I am not sure of the reasoning of egypt not giving Gaza full and open help, I can only assume it is politically motivated.



I suspect it is a matter of self-protection, that Egypt is aware of the effect that such a massive influx of refugees would place upon it's medical and social infrastructure.

Additionally, Egypt is probably cautious about sending too much assistance to Gaza, lest it offend Israel, open itself up to accusations of "enabling", and jeopardize their current relationship of detente.

[01RedDX]

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[Isaiah]

01RedDX, there's really no point in trying to reason with them. They're convinced that Israel is bad and Hamas is good. Just let it go cause it's a battle you can't win. It's like trying to convince a Christian that God is imaginary.

[CUG]

I'm all for civil liberties, so long as they don't piss me off..

[himat]

http://www.democracynow.org/

intresting watch