CA - Chartered Accountant??

[old_school_new]

Hey guys, so here's the deal.

I quit working at a bank about 3 months ago because I didn't enjoy being a salesperson/personal banker. I've been looking to get into O & G to help gain some industry experience. Oh yeah I know...I really picked a good time to quit and look for a new job. I got a bcomm in finance from uofc in 07, passed cfa level 1 and plan on writing level 2 in june. But I believe my current employment options are quite limited and have started to consider going back to school and eventually going for the CA designation.

After speaking with a research analyst I've come to realize I may have chosen the wrong field possibly and/or that I will need to find another way to get the cfa charter. From how I see it there are 2 paths in finance once you graduate. (If you have other ideas please comment)

1. Ibanking/Research associate/analyst where you need top grades to be recruited and work 16hr days. (don't have top grades and no way i can handle those hrs...next)

2. Investment sales/advisors/planners - I got a taste of retail banking and I didn't like it. Felt like being a salesman and I didn't like it.

Sorry for the long post, but now for my CA questions.

1. I have a degree from UofC that will partially satisfy the CASB course requirements. I still require 4 accounting courses. Can I complete those at a different institution or does it have to be the UofC?


2. When is recruiting season? September?

3. How likely are you to get an articling position in competing with new grads? (any company not just the big 4)

4. Anyone else going/went through what I'm deciding?

Thank you for your input.

[crazieness]

Originally posted by old_school_new


1. I have a degree from UofC that will partially satisfy the CASB course requirements. I still require 4 accounting courses. Can I complete those at a different institution or does it have to be the UofC?


2. When is recruiting season? September?

3. How likely are you to get an articling position in competing with new grads? (any company not just the big 4)

4. Anyone else going/went through what I'm deciding?

Thank you for your input.

1. You don't need to take all the courses at the U of C. I think you can take some at Mt. Royal or other accredited institutions. Go to www.cica.ca they should have a mapping based on the CASB requirements and Canadian post-sec schools.

2. Recruiting season starts September the year prior to hiring. Doesn't hurt to fire out resumes even before then or try and connect with people who already work at firms.

3. It's pretty competitive but it also depends on the company. I know firms like KPMG look at more than just your GPA, they look at the type of person you are and want you to fit their culture. As for small orgs, anyone who doesn't get in at a Big 4 and who want to pursue their CA designation then compete for those positions. I thought though you need to have big 4 experience to get your CA. I'm not too sure on that though.

4. N/A

Good luck!

[blinkme_210]

This upcoming major recruiting session (September) will be a tough one as the Big 4 are cutting down on the number of CA students. However, only time will truly tell.

You need to work for an approved training office to get your assurance and tax hours. So it can be any firm as long as they are approved by CICA. If you don't get an offer from a medium/large firm, try cold calling or dropping off resumes at smaller firms, because they may not hire at the same time as the larger firms.

My best advice for you is for you to research everything and anything CA related. It will give you a very good overview of what you will be putting yourself through for 36 months if you do decide to pursue it.

With that said, CA may not be for everyone. I went for my CA because I was good at accounting, but I didn't love it nor have a passion for it. I did stick it out and get my letters in the end, but it definitely was a mentally taxing 2 years of my life. Be prepared to sacrifice your social life, and study everyday after work and on weekends.

Most important question to ask yourself: are you passionate about accounting? If you answer yes, then you will do well and not suffer like so many others who have gone through the CA designation.

You may also want to consider the CGA program, which would allow you to transfer most of your university credits.

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by blinkme_210
This upcoming major recruiting session (September) will be a tough one as the Big 4 are cutting down on the number of CA students. However, only time will truly tell.

You need to work for an approved training office to get your assurance and tax hours. So it can be any firm as long as they are approved by CICA. If you don't get an offer from a medium/large firm, try cold calling or dropping off resumes at smaller firms, because they may not hire at the same time as the larger firms.

My best advice for you is for you to research everything and anything CA related. It will give you a very good overview of what you will be putting yourself through for 36 months if you do decide to pursue it.

With that said, CA may not be for everyone. I went for my CA because I was good at accounting, but I didn't love it nor have a passion for it. I did stick it out and get my letters in the end, but it definitely was a mentally taxing 2 years of my life. Be prepared to sacrifice your social life, and study everyday after work and on weekends.

Most important question to ask yourself: are you passionate about accounting? If you answer yes, then you will do well and not suffer like so many others who have gone through the CA designation.

You may also want to consider the CGA program, which would allow you to transfer most of your university credits.

Great post, sums everything up well.

You may also want to look into what is considered an approved training office because from what I recall the CICA finally gave approval to a FEW company's outside public accounting. (ie: oil and gas, etc)

[2.2vtec]

I was in the same boat as you. I got out of banking to get into the oil and gas industry. I started out doing accounts payable and worked my way up from there.

I am a finance major doing an accounting job and it happens more often then you think. I plan on doing a CMA for the reasons that they have an accelerated program for people who dont have all the accounting prereqs. I also will be choosing the CMA because it's not so much straight hardcore accounting but more strategy focused.

[tenth]

Originally posted by blinkme_210
Be prepared to sacrifice your social life, and study everyday after work and on weekends.
While it is certainly an intense process, you're not studying everyday. I did all 5 mods straight through busy season at a big 4 and still managed work, a social life, and snowboarding/golf (albeit not as much as I would have liked).

With regards to the initial questions,

1) Athabasca offers all the pre-reqs if you want to take the courses distance ed.
2) Recruiting is September, although the small firms may hire at other times of the year (maybe not in this economy).
3) While the economy is likely to still be slow, the conversion to IFRS may still drive hirings to stay up. The Big 4 consider a wide variety of factors, but there's still minimum GPAs to get in. If you have a personality and half-decent grades, you'll get a job somewhere.

Can echo blinkme's comments about it being a grueling process that will test you at the mental level. Audit busy season sucks (albeit you learn a ton).

[KappaSigma]

Keep in mind you can enroll in Mod 1 (Maybe mod 2..not sure about that one) WITHOUT all pre-CASb prereqs.

[ruggedboy]

I have a BSc in Math Finance from U of A and couldn't really find an interesting good job. I became a programmer and currently taking CASB courses thru Athabasca.

You don't have to sacrafice your wages to go back to school, you can maybe work and study online.

[Nusc]

Originally posted by ruggedboy
I have a BSc in Math Finance from U of A and couldn't really find an interesting good job. I became a programmer and currently taking CASB courses thru Athabasca.

You don't have to sacrafice your wages to go back to school, you can maybe work and study online.

Don't you need at least a MSc. in order to find work in mathematical finance?

[ruggedboy]

I would assume you need a MSc or a PhD in Mathematical Finance in order to do Quant work. In the end from what I've experienced is that.... this math stuff is pretty much bogus because it relies on a lot of modelling and models are never really predict whatever you want too well. And I feel Accounting relies much more on self judgement which I feel is better than using mathematical models to do bogus forecasting stuff.

I my opinion, I think it is better to pursue a practical in demand career like a CA and go from there... if you want to do a CFA or Mathematical Finance.

But this is what I know in Edmonton, not sure about Calgary or rest of the world. I know in US many there's a lot of demand for people who are really good at math.

[IhateDomestic]

Man that sucks. I feel for you

If I were you i'd spend that time getting an MBA..:banghead:

Would an MBA in Finance or Accounting interest you? More versatile than a CPA or CA (unless you know your staying in the Accounting field)

[SilverKast]

I'd just like to reinforce what some of the previous posters said in regards to making sure that a CA designation is what you want to do.

It takes a lot of time and effort, but if you're determined enough you can do it. Just make sure it's something you want to do or else you invest a lot of yourself into it before deciding it wasn't really what you wanted. I saw a few people do this, some of whom even got right up to the UFE before deciding that being a CA wasn't what they really wanted to do.

That said, if you do decide it's the way to go it can be a rewarding profession. There's always work, you're continually learning, and you'll meet a lot of great people (especially when articling). I despised articling, not that you don't learn a lot, but it really amounted to indentured slavery was the general consensus, hehe.

Check out some sites and whatnot to get feel for it (CICA, ICAA, etc). If you don't like the idea of CASB, you can always go with the MPacc at UofS as well.

[Nusc]

Originally posted by ruggedboy
I would assume you need a MSc or a PhD in Mathematical Finance in order to do Quant work. In the end from what I've experienced is that.... this math stuff is pretty much bogus because it relies on a lot of modelling and models are never really predict whatever you want too well. And I feel Accounting relies much more on self judgement which I feel is better than using mathematical models to do bogus forecasting stuff.

I my opinion, I think it is better to pursue a practical in demand career like a CA and go from there... if you want to do a CFA or Mathematical Finance.

But this is what I know in Edmonton, not sure about Calgary or rest of the world. I know in US many there's a lot of demand for people who are really good at math.

Do you think a MSc. in mathematical finance is overrated?

[ruggedboy]

Originally posted by Nusc


Do you think a MSc. in mathematical finance is overrated?

Truthfully, I wouldn't even do a MSc in Mathematical Finance because when you go out and work I doubt you will use much of what you learnt. I think most importantly is get something that is recongized. Something like CA or CFA is recongized or a designation that allows you to sign papers, I think that's what most companies hire you for is to use the designation you have to sign papers and etc.

Well this is my opinion. But there are a lot of successful people with MSc in Math Finance that get successful jobs. Example: Brian Hunter i believe he has a CFA and MSc in Math Finance and he is a hedge fund manager in Calgary.. something like that but he lost a lot of $. But i doubt they hired him because his credentials.

[Canucks3322]

Originally posted by crazieness


3. It's pretty competitive but it also depends on the company. I know firms like KPMG look at more than just your GPA, they look at the type of person you are and want you to fit their culture.

Good luck!

Translation, they like to hire douchey type guys who suck up.

[Nusc]

Originally posted by ruggedboy


Truthfully, I wouldn't even do a MSc in Mathematical Finance because when you go out and work I doubt you will use much of what you learnt. I think most importantly is get something that is recongized. Something like CA or CFA is recongized or a designation that allows you to sign papers, I think that's what most companies hire you for is to use the designation you have to sign papers and etc.

Well this is my opinion. But there are a lot of successful people with MSc in Math Finance that get successful jobs. Example: Brian Hunter i believe he has a CFA and MSc in Math Finance and he is a hedge fund manager in Calgary.. something like that but he lost a lot of $. But i doubt they hired him because his credentials.

Yeah I suppose. It's weird how firms hire physicists (sometimes engineers) as quants who do not normally take courses in measure theory or advanced courses in probability theory but they often deal with stochastic processes in certain systems.

[ruggedboy]

Originally posted by Nusc


Yeah I suppose. It's weird how firms hire physicists (sometimes engineers) as quants who do not normally take courses in measure theory or advanced courses in probability theory but they often deal with stochastic processes in certain systems.

Also, in getting a quant job, I think they only hire like extraordinary students to do that type of work as well. I think most quants have perfect 4.0 GPA and are super sharp and attend math competitions and etc. And I don't have any of those characteristics that i just mentioned.

Sometimes things in life just doesn't make sense because I've seen people with low GPA getting an analyst job while people with high GPA get nothing.

I think, if you want high pay, you should just join a field that is in demand and that has growth. A lot of things don't make sense in life for me, example: there are people that are doing labour work out there (no education) that are earning 35 dollars an hr and I have a Degree and they earn more than me. From what I've seen, If you really want to make money, just do labour work for 2-3 yrs and find some partners and open up a stable business.

But i don't think you can find labour work that high paying anymore due to the recession.

[Mckenzie]

I know a guy going through CASB who has his MBA and PhD in Finance...talk about over-qualified. :eek:

I think when he gets his CA, he will have more letters after his name than in his name. (B.Comm., MBA, PhD, CA vs. XXXX XXXXXX). :rofl:

That being said, he will never starve. And really, from what I have seen, anyone with a CA can travel all over the world and get a job in an instant. So if traveling is in your cards, that is something to think about.

[liquid1010]

I'm in somewhat of the the same boat.... and chose to do an MBA in Finance, as I'm not cut out to be an accountant.

Currently I work in a corporate environment doing Financial Analysis and fesability for various projects, as well as oversee the procurement department. Not great, but it's decent experience. I have however seen the value that a CA has, (and basic accounting skills are a must now a days) but I just can't see myself focusing so directly on Accounting. CMA has a program where you can complete your CMA within 8 months if you have your MBA - so I will most likely end up with an MBA,CMA,CFA......

[Nusc]

Originally posted by ruggedboy


Also, in getting a quant job, I think they only hire like extraordinary students to do that type of work as well. I think most quants have perfect 4.0 GPA and are super sharp and attend math competitions and etc. And I don't have any of those characteristics that i just mentioned.

Sometimes things in life just doesn't make sense because I've seen people with low GPA getting an analyst job while people with high GPA get nothing.

I think, if you want high pay, you should just join a field that is in demand and that has growth. A lot of things don't make sense in life for me, example: there are people that are doing labour work out there (no education) that are earning 35 dollars an hr and I have a Degree and they earn more than me. From what I've seen, If you really want to make money, just do labour work for 2-3 yrs and find some partners and open up a stable business.

But i don't think you can find labour work that high paying anymore due to the recession.

GPA isn't everything. Even morons can get a 4.0 but that usually only happens in faculties outside engineering or science.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Nusc


GPA isn't everything. Even morons can get a 4.0 but that usually only happens in faculties outside engineering or science.

LOL very true. Though I wouldn't call them morons. More like.. Socially inept. What I find is that a person can be completely 100% booksmart but lack everything else. Studying for them is second nature, and they can ace any test. But put them in the real world, and they're big fucking failures. They can't interact with people, and they can't deal with real life situations.

And then there's people that are the other way around. They are loved by everyone, and when you talk to them, you know they are super passionate about what they do, but can't write an exam to save their life. Case in point, I had an former co-worker who couldn't pass the UFE (old system) 4 times, so he decided to keep at it and went through CASB. Was going great until Mod 4, he didn't pass, and called it quits. But talk to him, and I knew right then and there he was born to be an accountant. It does suck to see people that go from graduating University to passing the UFE in 18 months, while he's been doing it for what, like 7 years and still be so far away.

BTW, just to add to one of the above posts, yes you can do Mod 1 without all your pre-reqs, but you gotta be real close (like maybe 1 or max 2 courses away).

[msommers]

Originally posted by tenth

While it is certainly an intense process, you're not studying everyday. I did all 5 mods straight through busy season at a big 4 and still managed work, a social life, and snowboarding/golf (albeit not as much as I would have liked).

You must be very fortunate. The miss' is articling right now and she works 6/7 days a week, almost 12 hrs per day. It's fuckin ridiculous.

[clem24]

Originally posted by msommers


You must be very fortunate. The miss' is articling right now and she works 6/7 days a week, almost 12 hrs per day. It's fuckin ridiculous.

OH yeah.. I didn't have a life. Assignments were due every Friday, so that meant you couldn't go out either Thurs or Fri. And on weekends you had to submit revisions, up to 3 weeks worth. It's a brutal time.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by clem24


Case in point, I had an former co-worker who couldn't pass the UFE (old system) 4 times, so he decided to keep at it and went through CASB. Was going great until Mod 4, he didn't pass, and called it quits. But talk to him, and I knew right then and there he was born to be an accountant. It does suck to see people that go from graduating University to passing the UFE in 18 months, while he's been doing it for what, like 7 years and still be so far away.



That is so true. I've met quite a few people who are really good at their jobs, but not very good at formal studying.

[tenth]

Originally posted by msommers


You must be very fortunate. The miss' is articling right now and she works 6/7 days a week, almost 12 hrs per day. It's fuckin ridiculous.
The mods in busy season were the worst 3.5 months of my life, but if you plan your time well, you get through it alright. The rest of the time is manageable.

[civicHB]

I'm considering taking the CA pre-requisites at UBC, what do current CA's or articling students think of this idea?

I'm worried about the economy and not sure if quiting my job to go back to school is the best idea.

Any help is appreciated

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by civicHB
I'm considering taking the CA pre-requisites at UBC, what do current CA's or articling students think of this idea?

I'm worried about the economy and not sure if quiting my job to go back to school is the best idea.

Any help is appreciated

Quitting your job and going back to school is a great idea during a recession. You don't want to be in school during the boom phase when people are handing out the big bucks.

:thumbsup:

[ruggedboy]

Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror


Quitting your job and going back to school is a great idea during a recession. You don't want to be in school during the boom phase when people are handing out the big bucks.

:thumbsup:

That is one way to think about it. I think it is more logical to keep your job and maybe take online courses to finish your acctg courses. Save your money and take advantage of the recession, houses are cheaper, cars are cheaper, you can probably find a pretty good financing rate if you have good credit.

[civicHB]

Originally posted by ruggedboy


That is one way to think about it. I think it is more logical to keep your job and maybe take online courses to finish your acctg courses. Save your money and take advantage of the recession, houses are cheaper, cars are cheaper, you can probably find a pretty good financing rate if you have good credit.

I already have a house and don't need to worry about that.

The online option does not feel apealing, I'd rather go to class and learn, rather than learning on my own. The UBC option is only one year long, and then i'm done all the pre-reqs. I would like to get the pre-reqs over and done with then I can concentrate on getting a job and passing the mods.

[ruggedboy]

http://www.sauder.ubc.ca/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Program_Overview8&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2222

http://www.casb.com/pdf/BC_UBC.pdf

Truthfully, I think it will take you more than a year to finish all your prequisites. I am not sure whether UBC Dap program covers all the prequisites, only covers most.

You can compare the core courses for DAP and CASB prequisites.

Plus move to Vancouver + living expense + school = $$$$ and I heard DAP charges quite a lot.

Probably looking at at least 1.5 yrs.

I don't know why I am nice today giving people straight forward information. :banghead:

At least with Athabasca you can just pick and choose the exact courses you need.

[clem24]

Man, learning on your own is awesome. No having to worry about showing up to class on time, learn at your own pace, and basically you can finish a course a Athabasca in a few weeks if you really wanted. But of course, you must have good organization and time management skills if you're going to juggle correspondence courses, plus work.

Also, keep in mind that the entire CASB experience is learning on your own and 95% of it is through correspondence. You'll have to research everything yourself, and know what to research as well. University courses = memorize this, regurgitate that. CASB = hands you the issue, you find the solution.

Personally, I say screw going to UBC. Take correspondence courses. Your university pre-reqs will only lay the basic foundation for CASB. What you learn in those courses, you'll forget just about everything except for the very basic principles. All the real learning and application takes place within CASB itself.

BTW, how many pre-reqs are you actually missing?

[ruggedboy]

Originally posted by clem24
Man, learning on your own is awesome. No having to worry about showing up to class on time, learn at your own pace, and basically you can finish a course a Athabasca in a few weeks if you really wanted. But of course, you must have good organization and time management skills if you're going to juggle correspondence courses, plus work.

Also, keep in mind that the entire CASB experience is learning on your own and 95% of it is through correspondence. You'll have to research everything yourself, and know what to research as well. University courses = memorize this, regurgitate that. CASB = hands you the issue, you find the solution.

Personally, I say screw going to UBC. Take correspondence courses. Your university pre-reqs will only lay the basic foundation for CASB. What you learn in those courses, you'll forget just about everything except for the very basic principles. All the real learning and application takes place within CASB itself.

BTW, how many pre-reqs are you actually missing?

From the way he is talking, it sounds like he just wants the prestige of having UBC under his name. Joe Doe, BSc, UBC Acctg Dip.

[civicHB]

Originally posted by ruggedboy


From the way he is talking, it sounds like he just wants the prestige of having UBC under his name. Joe Doe, BSc, UBC Acctg Dip.

Just to clarify, the program offers all the required courses, you can start in May and it goes till April, and i'll need about eight to fullfill CASB's requirements.
I want to have the diploma incase I can't get an articling position, then at least I have my BSc and the diploma. It's not the greatest but better than just having random accounting classes that don't really add to my resume.
Also having UBC opens doors for me to article in BC, and i'd rather stay there than return to Edmonton.