Attn: Mechanical Engineers & Engineering Techs

[Joe-G]

Hey,

I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to suck up the extra years in taking ENGG at the university, or if becoming an engineering tech at SAIT is the better option for me. I'm sure i can get into both, but i have other things in mind that make the 2-year term at SAIT more convincing.

My main questions are pretty much:
- Whats the difference of work between an actual engineer and a tech?
- What's the actual difference of pay? (Whats the hourly/monthly/salary for either?)
- Are the hours any good?

I know i can look off of specific websites to find the averaged out information, but I'm looking for more first-hand experiences that can answer my questions.

Help me outt! haha, and feel free to post any helpful information that can be of some use! lol

Thanks

[badatusrnames]

Get a degree... you can ultimately go much further and do much more with it.

With a diploma, you'll hit a glass ceiling.

[BlackArcher101]

How do you feel about responsibility... Such as you are the deciding factor for accepting a design which may have the ability to kill someone.

I for one decided the tech route was better for me, as I didn't want that burden on my shoulders. Instead I feel a bit better that my work is double checked and accepted by someone else.

I'll let others explain the differences between tech and PEng.

[rinny]

Briefly explained...

Techs generally work hands on. They do a lot of the bridging between theory and general labor, sort of specialized labor/testing/building etc. The advanced theoretical knowledge that a tech has over lets say a general laborer with years of experience puts them in a better position to understand more in depth of how systems work and why they are the way they are. Techs can also do design work, which in the end will be looked over and signed by an engineer.

Engineers will be doing the pure calculations and scientific study needed to accurately and safely build whichever system they are working on. Much more independent thought to find solutions to problems, hence, engineering things.

I had a roommate who was a Mech. Engineer and she was always having to look back in her school books for ways to do calculations on new parts of design for different projects.

This is just the tip of the ice so keep reading and try and make heads and tails of it all.

[Dr_Funk]

Engineers learn more about the theories behind the calculations. In the work place, there is more responsibility for an engineer. A tech (unless you have more than 10 years of experience) will pretty much have to work under an engineer and rely on the engineers to sign off on their work.

As for pay, my friend who was a certified engineering technologist (CET) makes 48K a year. After a year, shes now making about 52K. New engineers typically make between 65-80K a year, which I can confirm since the job I just accepted pays in that range.

And yes, suck it up for the extra 2 years and you will have a greater earning potential than a technologist.

Work hours are very similar for both techs and engineers as they often work hand in hand.

Hope that helped...the 2 extra years will go by really fast!!!

[Joe-G]

Are those net values? (48k, etc.)

[Dr_Funk]

no...those are before taxes!!

ALso, if you decide to do engineering at the UofC, I highly recommend doing the internship. You make very good money, and it helps with your networking when its time to come and look for a job after grad.

[SJW]

I'm a C.E.T. and I make more than most P.engs. Lets hope I keep my job through these times.

Don't let engineers freak you out. Just work hard and learn. I still must get my designs signed off but its basically engineering work no matter which way you look at it.

Go do and be whatever you want.

[Joe-G]

Would you mind if i asked how much you make?
If you do mind, can i just ask how many years of experience you have?

Edit: Im not thinking too clearly right now, :nut:
I guess it's because its late :dunno:

[Nizmo_GTR]

I think Tech vs. Engg is comparable to Nurse vs. Med Doc

[SJW]

I have 10 years experience and PM me for what I make.

[alloroc]

If you think you can pass the courses sure take engineering.

You do lose two years of tuition and two years of wages but I think you will make it up within the first five years.

Make sure you are happy with what your future options will be. Truthfully I am a tech who is happy he is not an engineer, but I kind of kick myself sometimes for not deciding to go into a trade. I make between 70 and 80k per year as an HVAC tech (sales/engineering support) but being someone who really likes to work with his hands I think I would have been happier working a trade for 5-10k less.

My only advice is work to live - don't live to work money isn't everything.

[Nufy]

I'm a CET (Electrical)

Before I went contract my base salary was over 70K / year.

And due to go up again.

In my instance it depends on how valued you are to your company.

I was doing all design work that was reviewed and approved by the engineers.

[dj_honda]

although there will be the odd tech that makes more than a p.eng, a p.eng will generally make more when talking about money. also, when a tech moves from job to job, i doubt that they will retain the higher salary from one company to the next ( i could be wrong). i know for sure once you have a p.eng in your field there will be a salary range even when moving from one job to another.

there is more upside career wise to being a p.eng. you are more likely to get project manager and straight management positions in the future (although it does depend on the person). you can also do consulting in the future as well.

overall, it depends on the person and the company the person works for as well as the industry. i work with a lot of techs who make more than me, but they have 10+ years of experience compared to my measly 2 (i'm an eit) and i bet the convergence in salaries would happen soon, especially if i switched jobs.

[gretz]

What is your dream job? Start with that and make your decisions based on what YOU want to do. Take courses pertaining to what you want and go from there.

Im a Mechanical Engineer/drafter/civil engineer/cnc guru -> all in one pile - you can't go wrong if you do what you like. Having a goal also keeps you on track.


Dont let the differences between titles, pay, and hours guide your decisions - they influence decisions sure, but doing something that you love is far better than making a bit more money.

edit: pretty much exactly what allroc said

[s_havinga]

I graduted from SAIT with my MET almost two years ago so I will be applying for my CET in May when I have my 2 years experience. I strongly recommed going throug the MET program. After you graduate there is the option to do another 2.5 years of school in Victoria or Thunderbay and you can still come out with your degree. This way you can get your MET, work a bit and see how you like it, and then decide if you want to continue for your degree.

Right now I am a mechanical designer and I do the exact same thing as the Engineers I work with. In my experience, no matter what your education your work will always be checked so dont worry about that either way.

From what I hear Techs normally cap out around $80 000 a year after say 10 -15 years experience where as Engineers can almost double that. Also if you plan on ever wanting to take a managment role having your degree and P. Eng makes that a lot easier in most cases.

Personally I am going to get my CET in May, probably work another year and then head off to victoria and start working towards my degree in Fall 2010

[accord885]

I'm a Mech Tech grad in 2006 and am making about 115,000 a year right now.

[Dr_Funk]

^^ :werd:

Given the same experience, then an Engineer will definitely make alot more than a tech.

You can't compare a tech with 10-year experience to a P.Eng with 4-5 years experience....

In the end, everyone is gonna make enough to have a comfortable life, so money won't be a concern....

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by s_havinga
From what I hear Techs normally cap out around $80 000 a year after say 10 -15 years experience where as Engineers can almost double that. Also if you plan on ever wanting to take a managment role having your degree and P. Eng makes that a lot easier in most cases.

I'd be willing to guess that with 10-15 years experience a CET will probably be making at least $110K-$140K if you know how to market yourself.

You also have the option of going into equipment sales, and at that point it doesn't matter if you have a CET or a P.Eng (though, I'm not going to lie, a P.Eng will get you a bit more credibility than a CET... at least with me when I'm dealing with salesmen)... if people naturally like you and you can carry conversations and entertain clients, this could be a dream job for you.

I have a couple of friends that are very successful salesmen in O/G. They take customers out for lunch, to flames games, golf trips, etc... not a bad way to earn a paycheque!

In the long run of things... it doesn't matter that much. I think where the degree really helps is between years 2-8 of your career. After you approach 10+ years of experience you either know how to do the job or you don't, and it probably won't matter too much what you learned back in school.

Someone mentioned that CETs earning a lot at one job may have difficulty getting the same pay at a new job... I sort of agree with this. Also keep in mind, jumping to the producers (EnCana, Imperial, Shell, Nexen, etc) who have somewhat fixed pay scales from a small company that pays what it needs to to keep employees would be a hard move mid career with a CET if you want to keep making what you're making.


I'm surprised this thread has gone as far as it has without turning into "Engineers are useless, CETs do all the real work" and "CETs are idiots who couldn't get into university." Good work, Beyond :rofl:

[Joe-G]

Originally posted by Super_Geo

I'm surprised this thread has gone as far as it has without turning into "Engineers are useless, CETs do all the real work" and "CETs are idiots who couldn't get into university." Good work, Beyond :rofl:

From searching around, i thought that would have been the initial response as well. :rofl:

Thanks for all the advice, but my ideal job is in the mechanical engineering field, so i think I'm in the right direction.
I'm not doing for the money, but i consider the type of work to be within my interests. The money would just be a big bonus :D

Is there actually a program out in BC to extend a Diploma into a full degree? If i can remember correctly, there are no upgrade or transfer programs in Calgary to extend a MET. You would have to take the 2 years of MET, and if you want to earn the degree, you would have to go through another 4 years in university?

[s_havinga]

Yes if you stay in calgary it would require 4 years of university but if you go to U Vic or Lakehead you can get the degree within 2.5 years after you get your diploma. Defanitly worth checking out IMO.

http://www.mylakehead.ca/?display=page&pageid=28

http://www.engr.uvic.ca/futurestudents/bridge-prog.php

[a social dsease]

Well I work at a Civil Engineering company, so it might be a bit different from mechanical, but just to give you an idea our most senior technologists have a charge out rate of around $140ish. (Divide that by 3 to get approx hourly wage). These are guys with at least 15-20 yrs experience. In contrast, engineers with only 8-10 yrs of experience are making right around the same amount. Engineers in training are charging out at around $100, once P.Eng designation is achieved that jumps to around $120.
And of course senior engineers are making mucho $$$.
As an engineer (well almost, got another yr of school left) I'm a bit biased, but I would say go for the degree. It'll open alot more doors, and even if you prefer to just do design and no proj. management you can still do that if you want. Plus you'll get a fancy ring when you graduate!:drool:

[A|pine]

http://www.apegga.org/pdf/SalarySurvey/VPS2008.pdf

This will give you an idea of how much an engineer will make. I say if you entered post secondary education ten years ago, go for a tech degree.

My boss, a manager of production engineers and a business unit (Deep Basin will not mention what company) is a tech graduated from NAIT.

A degree will only go so far - experience will define your career. I am an engineer as well and the pay is really really good and I know of MANY senior level engineers who rake in the $$ and a COUPLE of techs that also rake in the $$.

Mind you there are techs that get the opportunity to work in an environment that is equivalent to an engineer's and they too will see the same compensation in $$ as the engineers.

Just like how there are individuals who don't go to post secondary and do just fine in the real world - through their experiences they learn and develop.

[s_havinga]

Originally posted by A|pine
http://www.apegga.org/pdf/SalarySurvey/VPS2008.pdf

This will give you an idea of how much an engineer will make. I say if you entered post secondary education ten years ago, go for a tech degree.



For a comparison to a technologist check out the aset website

http://aset.ab.ca/pdfs/salsurv/ASET_SalSurv2008.pdf

[ExtraSlow]

The last company I worked at paid Techs and Engineers the same as long as they were doing the same work, which was normal. However, there are some companies that have defined job functions that only Engineers can do. It all depends on you and the companies you work for.

As others have said, think about the kind of job you want, and work backwards from there. There is no point doing two extra years of school if it doesn't benefit your unique situation.

For me, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, so I'm glad I have the flexibility that an Engineering degree provides. Not to mention that it makes salary negotiations a little easier.

[rony_espana]

A lot of people take tech over engineering for other reason, not just because they can't handle University. In my case I had a kid, was working full time (more actually) and married....so I was considering dropping out after a couple month.... however in other scenarios (single, living at home...) the extra year or two wouldn't be a problem. Not sure how much new grad engineers make, but I'm pretty happy with my wage considering I only have 2 years experience. :thumbsup:

[The Cosworth]

i have typically got more involved and opinionated in these threads in the past. I have learned however.

I am a tech, I chose the tech route for a few reasons. I like to design and i dont want to sit and read through someone elses drawings all day. Plus I would be done 2 years earlier.

Because of that I took my tech.

I make considerable more than Dr_funk's friend. This year assuming our contract renewal is favourable I should be in the 70k mark. I am 2 years out of school.

Engineering is good if you want to do more desk and technical review work. Tech is good if you want to design and show up to work and work everyday.

In my experience (utilities industry) an even number of people become managers, our design manager was a surveyor for 25 years. Technical review managers or the guy who signs work all day long has to be a P.Eng but that is a small part of the whole engineering business

[A|pine]

Dos

[anschutz_92]

I wouldn't expect any where close to 100k out of school. Co-op placement grads typically make more out of school. Those who have completed the traditional program will start 5-10k/yr lower and will have more difficulty finding a job.

Not to be the bringer of bad news but most beyond members aren't exactly credible sources of information. (In response to some of the claims in here) Everyone who I know that actually makes >100k/yr drive new cars every couple of years, own their house outright and don't spend every night on a car forum :rolleyes: If anyone wishes to post up some T4's I will happily eat my words but for now you are full of shit. It would be very rare to see a either P.Eng or tech fresh out of school (within 3 years) making 100k. Yes, at the end of the day it does come down to how valuable you are to your company. There are people that don't even have highschool making $150k/yr in sales type positions... Long story short (sans a couple of cheap shots at the tech's) P.eng certification doesn't automatically entitle you to a great job with good pay, a Tech with strong drive can easily make more than a loser with a degree; A P.eng with drive can go further with less effort.

Do your own research and get some decent data to base your decision: http://www.alis.gov.ab.ca/wageinfo/Content/RequestAction.asp?format=html&aspAction=GetWageHomePage&Page=Home
(Appega is the best source for information regarding engineer's pay but that link has already been posted)

[mazdavirgin]

Another thing to keep in mind is if you ever want to do a Research and Development related job you are going to be seriously limiting yourself with a Tech diploma. The tech diploma simply does not have the theoretical background or the required advanced mathematics that are needed for Research and Development. Typically the minimum level of education for R&D is a bachelors of science in Engineering...

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Another thing to keep in mind is if you ever want to do a Research and Development related job you are going to be seriously limiting yourself with a Tech diploma. The tech diploma simply does not have the theoretical background or the required advanced mathematics that are needed for Research and Development. Typically the minimum level of education for R&D is a bachelors of science in Engineering...


Originally posted by anschutz_92
I wouldn't expect any where close to 100k out of school. Co-op placement grads typically make more out of school. Those who have completed the traditional program will start 5-10k/yr lower and will have more difficulty finding a job.

Not to be the bringer of bad news but most beyond members aren't exactly credible sources of information. (In response to some of the claims in here) Everyone who I know that actually makes >100k/yr drive new cars every couple of years, own their house outright and don't spend every night on a car forum :rolleyes: If anyone wishes to post up some T4's I will happily eat my words but for now you are full of shit. It would be very rare to see a either P.Eng or tech fresh out of school (within 3 years) making 100k. Yes, at the end of the day it does come down to how valuable you are to your company. There are people that don't even have highschool making $150k/yr in sales type positions... Long story short (sans a couple of cheap shots at the tech's) P.eng certification doesn't automatically entitle you to a great job with good pay, a Tech with strong drive can easily make more than a loser with a degree; A P.eng with drive can go further with less effort.

Do your own research and get some decent data to base your decision: http://www.alis.gov.ab.ca/wageinfo/Content/RequestAction.asp?format=html&aspAction=GetWageHomePage&Page=Home
(Appega is the best source for information regarding engineer's pay but that link has already been posted)

Both of these are good, level headed posts.

:thumbsup:


Just to add a couple more things to what people have said (I finally read backwards, lol)

Yes you can go to lake head or UVic (camosun bridge) and get your degree. When I went to SAIT I made damned sure my marks were tops to be able to get into UVic. For now I am liking where I am at and dont see a point in going out to Victoria. Not if I get laid off in the next few years (unlikely in my industry) I would go back.

Another thing to consider, if you work for who I do, we are 'unionized' as Alberta can be (technically it is an association with no real power but the company is nice to it anyways). Everyone works for the union except a few people, such as P.Eng's, Managers, Lawyers, CA's, Etc. and we call them out of scope. What this means is that they are outside the scope of the association and their pay, job, duties, locations, etc are not mandated and can change at any time. Now when EIT's come into the company they are placed IN scope so you get your hourly wage and overtime, mandated holidays, etc. Once they move up to P.Eng they have to leave the association and negotiate their own wages. I personally know of one P.Eng who is hating it because he has more money (obviously) but lots more responsibility and hence more hours and because he is out of scope he gets NO overtime. In the end he makes the same now as he did when he was designing.

Personally I love being a tech, I am on really good terms with the engineers above me, and I find that by being a tech the field crews have a bit more respect for me then if I had an iron ring. One of our engineers doesnt wear his anymore because he is tired of the abuse the field crews give him. Anyone who works in the field (lineman, mechanics, whatever) you will know how much you curse engineers. By being a tech they seem to ignore the fact that we are probably the ones who designed it, LOL.

As for pay, looking at that APEGGA chart, minus the bottom two rows (which from what I can deduce are your level of responsibility) the pay isnt that far off a tech. Green coming out of college working for a regulated industry I was making 52,000 a year. Within 8 months I was at 58,000. This year I am just over 60,000. and by next I am expecting between 66,000 and 70,000. I can apply for my CET this may (which to be fair is nothing once you have it from what I have heard from my technologist friends).

Moving around, maybe in this economy is tough but so far I have been unemployed for 1 day since I graduated and that was because he didnt want to write up the offer letter so he wanted to wait for his admin assistant to come back.

Someone mentioned research, yes if you want to do research you better get your degree. If I wanted to do research I would go back to school and get a Physics degree I wouldnt try to do it on my current knowledge base. I am fully aware of that.

Cant think of much else at this point although I had something else to add.

I am not saying to NOT get your engineering degree, now is a good time to be going back to school. I am just giving you what I like about being a tech because a few engineers have chimed in and given why they like being engineers.

[ExtraSlow]

One more thing in favor of the tech route:
I'm an engineer, and I spent three full years doing tech work, at a tech salary, working with techs. For that entire time I wondered why I wasted an extra two years in school.
Some engineers end up doing that for their whole careers.

[CokerRat]

There is some good advice in this thread. There are lots of good CET's and I have no doubt that many of them make excellent money. The question is "what's the difference worth to an employer". Don't let anyone kid you... there IS a difference.

Having an engineering degree and a P.Eng will help open doors for you in your career. You can still bash through many of them as a CET if you're good, given enough time. Assuming equal levels of drive, diligence, and ability, a P.Eng will on average have more responsibility and a higher salary than a CET. From a salary standpoint, the difference is (in my world) 2 years experience credit.

[kaput]

.

[Joe-G]

My brother is already in Engineering so maybe he will hook me up in the future! :D

Other than that lol, Is there a big difference in B.Eng versus P.Eng? I was reading their website concerning the bridge program, and it was referring to attaining a B.Eng. I'm fairly decided on where i want to go, so ill probably be applying within the next couple days.

Bare with me since i do not know all the abbreviations, terms, etc. Or do they mean the same thing? :confused:

[badatusrnames]

^^ B. Eng is the degree, a Bachelor in Engineering. Some schools offer that. At UofC, it's a Bachelor of Science in Engineering. No real difference that I'm aware of.

P.Eng is your professional designation that you are now a professional engineer, similar to CA or CMA for accountants.

[Joe-G]

Makes total sense now. Degree is the way to go!
I've read, and re-read all of my options and i think i know for sure which way i want to go.
Thanks for all the help and answers provided. :D

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Joe-G
Makes total sense now. Degree is the way to go!
I've read, and re-read all of my options and i think i know for sure which way i want to go.
Thanks for all the help and answers provided. :D

Good choice, you'll open a lot more doors for yourself and have a lot of flexibility when it comes to career choices.

From meeting a lot of engineers down town, I notice that while a lot stay in a strictly tech/engineering role, which they are happy with. A lot of engineers also move into management/business roles where their understanding of engineering and operations is a huge advantage over people with just a business degree. A lot of these opportunities would be very difficult to get into with a diploma.

For example, my last boss was a mechanical engineer who had an MBA and worked in business development, his engineering background gave him an edge in really understanding how things work, but he admitted that he really didn't enjoy the engineering work as much as working on the business side of things. Having a degree allowed him to move out of that role and into BD. I also worked with a lawyer who was a P.Eng and had gotten his LLB.

Also, having a degree and being a professional engineer gives you a lot more international opportunity.

[riceboi]

Go for the degree, I think many posters up here discussed the pros and cons. Here is another point for you, be prepared, the Engg prog at UofC is much harder and alot more work than SAIT. It's probably one of the toughest undergrad programs at UofC. I've have taken courses in both SAIT and UofC Engg so I'm telling you from my own experience but I guess no pain, no gain.