Computer Science Internships at the U of C

[jensv]

My Computer Science internship application has finally been approved. Now I can access the job pool and pick up the sloppy seconds of all the ENGG students! :facepalm:

[AG_Styles]

.... i found my own internship opening b4 applying to the program and they accepted me right away after i went to talk to the faculty even though i was 3 months past the deadline.

The job link stuff isn't really that much better. You still have to compete for jobs with every other student.

[jensv]

I've been diligently looking for summer work since September. Unfortunately I haven't had much luck with my search.

My personal network is limited I need to rely on the school's job pool. I'm a little upset because up until the beginning of this month I was using a friend's userid to access the pool and applying to the companies directly. Then one day they decide to update the system and access to the openings disappeared ie) the jobs are still there but neither I nor my friend can see them.

Engineers don't have this problem and I guess the University considers Com Sci students second rate. Now after a month of paper work (we apply in December and it's taken all the way until January for approval) I'm -still- not officially part of the program until I get through some paperwork and red tape.

Anyways I'm not impressed. I don't mind competing but I don't understand why I have to jump past all these hurdles just to get started.

[Thomas Gabriel]

Maybe you guys just don't have attractive skills. Knowing a bit of C++ is worth maybe 10 bucks an hour.

[Boat]

Info Systems Management FTW

[Thomas Gabriel]

What IS job did you get?

[Boat]

Desktop & Application support @ an oil company ><
But they already made their cuts...woo

Its just a 4 month summer position.

[vinc456]

Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel
Maybe you guys just don't have attractive skills. Knowing a bit of C++ is worth maybe 10 bucks an hour.

If you work for the University under a PURE or NSERC grant than your hourly rate works out to roughly $10/hour but you have know more than "a bit of C++":barf:

Also you're not required to learn any C++ in Computer Science. Undergraduates are taught Pascal and Java in first year.

[Thomas Gabriel]

I was being facetious about "a bit", but lets get serious, no company is going to want to hire a programmer who has only 2-4th year CPSC experience. I remember now about U of C not teaching C++. Java has a bit of demand at least. But really, if you look at the skills required for real IT jobs, the list is always about 10 technologies long. Unfortunately, universities only teach one language, and a couple DB courses - you have to learn the rest on your own. So if you are only taking university CPSC classes and don't do a fair amount of extra-curricular learning, you'll never get a job. That's true for when you graduate too.

[vinc456]

Originally posted by Thomas Gabriel
I was being facetious about &quot;a bit&quot;, but lets get serious, no company is going to want to hire a programmer who has only 2-4th year CPSC experience. I remember now about U of C not teaching C++. Java has a bit of demand at least. But really, if you look at the skills required for real IT jobs, the list is always about 10 technologies long. Unfortunately, universities only teach one language, and a couple DB courses - you have to learn the rest on your own. So if you are only taking university CPSC classes and don't do a fair amount of extra-curricular learning, you'll never get a job. That's true for when you graduate too.

If you're interested in software development and don't have any experience beyond your coursework, then you'll probably be hard-pressed to find a decent position. However I don't think this would be the case in other types of jobs such as helpdesk support. I'm not sure if ENGG students are more attractive because they basically spend a year in a common program and probably are too swamped with coursework to learn anything on their own time. On the other hand in CS you have a lot of options to build "breadth" which you might argue is a waste of time.

Anyways imo employer skill lists are too ideal and a good fit (ie: experience in similar technologies) is fine. All ENGG students are required to learn some C++. CS students also learn some assembly, Prolog, Haskell, and C. I'd agree with extra-curriculars because you can cruise by CS without putting in a whole lot of effort. If you don't work hard, you could probably be replaced by some guy in India. :cry:

[vinc456]

Btw what are the differences between the CS and ENGG internship program? :hijack:

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by vinc456

If you don't work hard, you could probably be replaced by some guy in India. :cry:

Yup :(

That is why I moved out of CS and went to business instead. Might have to get an MBA depending on economy. I still do programming part-time now, and will probably start my career doing that, but at least I know I'll be a bit more difficult to replace.

[diamondedge]

Originally posted by vinc456
Btw what are the differences between the CS and ENGG internship program? :hijack:

Well, we have minimum 12 month work terms, if I remember correctly. Up to max 16. *Looks at Eleanor*

Aside from that...nothing?

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by vinc456

If you're interested in software development and don't have any experience beyond your coursework, then you'll probably be hard-pressed to find a decent position. However I don't think this would be the case in other types of jobs such as helpdesk support.

Using your CS degree to do helpdesk support is imho a waste of talent and of your degree. No offense to anyone who does support but why bother with CS when you could have went for certs instead?


Originally posted by vinc456
I'm not sure if ENGG students are more attractive because they basically spend a year in a common program and probably are too swamped with coursework to learn anything on their own time. On the other hand in CS you have a lot of options to build &quot;breadth&quot; which you might argue is a waste of time.

ENGG tends to be more attractive because of the higher admissions requirements/course load which typically gets you a better student/harder worker. Generalization perhaps but that is how people hire in the tech sector.


Originally posted by vinc456
Anyways imo employer skill lists are too ideal and a good fit (ie: experience in similar technologies) is fine. All ENGG students are required to learn some C++. CS students also learn some assembly, Prolog, Haskell, and C. I'd agree with extra-curriculars because you can cruise by CS without putting in a whole lot of effort. If you don't work hard, you could probably be replaced by some guy in India. :cry:

ENGG students learn at minimum C/C++. Some of the other branches such as EE/CE/SE end up learning Java, Haskell, Prologue, and a couple other flavors of assembly languages(MIPS/68K/Blackfin). Recall too that if they want too they can take the high level tech electives from CPSC in their fourth year along side with the ENGG courses. A tad unfair but ENGG students can take CPSC courses but not vice versa.

Either way looking at a lot of my buddies from CPSC the main problem they have with not finding dev jobs is a lack of drive. If you want to do dev work you will find someone to hire you and teach you the ropes. It is not a question of having certs or 10 different skills when people hire junior devs they know they are hiring entry level folk that need to be trained.


Originally posted by diamondedge
Well, we have minimum 12 month work terms, if I remember correctly. Up to max 16. *Looks at Eleanor*
Aside from that...nothing?


Yeah thats correct other than that I am not sure if they need to write reports like you have to do in ENGG. :\ Internship reports suck...

[AG_Styles]

.... wow.... there seems to be an attitude that engineers are somehow better than computer scientists based on their hyped up faculty standards....

let me clear a few things up.

1) Minimum length for cpsc students is 12 months.

2) CPSC interns have to complete internship reports also.

3) With every job you apply for, you will always have an edge with a solid portfolio that can show you are qualified at the job you are applying for. eng or cpsc. it doesn't matter.

4) yes ENGG students do have an edge in certain jobs especially in Calgary. But if you are majoring in something you are really passionate about, this voids any of this apparent unfairness. This is typically true in every faculty, where there are students that are merely in it for all the wrong reasons. Besides, nothing in life is fair,

My internship position was referred to me by my professor when i was on a transfer program in Japan. I didn't expect it, but it was the position I've been looking for. I applied for the position with a strong portfolio and now i'm currently in charge of the work and validation of what the software engineers and programmers do (in addition to animators, artists, modellers, etc...).

My advice to you is to not worry about ENGG this or CPSC that. Know what you want, devote your time and be passionate about it, be smart and opportunities will come. Get a solid portfolio built up and make it accessible when you're applying for positions. Try your best and i'm sure a good internship opportunity will come your way.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by jensv
My personal network is limited I need to rely on the school's job pool.

Am I understanding this incorrectly? You have to use only the resources provided by the U of C (ie: Career Services)?

When I did my internship, everyone was allowed to use any resource they could. I got way more responses from wanted ads, job sites, etc... than postings in Career Services because all the other students were competing for those same positions. Not only that, but most students are sheep, so unless someone tells them to go look through the classifieds, they're not going to so that cuts down on a lot of the competition. Also keep in mind that A LOT of the positions posted in Career Services use GPA as a determining factor just for interviews, so if you're not a straight A student, your chances aren't going to look good.

[Euro838]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


Am I understanding this incorrectly? You have to use only the resources provided by the U of C (ie: Career Services)?

When I did my internship, everyone was allowed to use any resource they could. I got way more responses from wanted ads, job sites, etc... than postings in Career Services because all the other students were competing for those same positions. Not only that, but most students are sheep, so unless someone tells them to go look through the classifieds, they're not going to so that cuts down on a lot of the competition. Also keep in mind that A LOT of the positions posted in Career Services use GPA as a determining factor just for interviews, so if you're not a straight A student, your chances aren't going to look good.

He is resourceful, I'm sure we're going to see a post in careers for "Looking for Internship Job...." here on beyond :) (and probably other car forums too)

For the internship/co-op program, I would suggest you find a place that you would want to work at AFTER you graduate. I know this is the whole point of Internship/Co-op to try out the industry but the reality is the best bet for landing a job with least effort is to go back to the same company.

If you commit to returning or working part time during your studies, it may be possible for you to negotiate a portion or all of your last year's tuition paid for by them. I know of people in my graduating class who did this and I must say it was a very smart move. You will get the additional years of service with them which are usually beneficial in terms of company benefits.

Anyways, good luck with your search.

[jensv]

Originally posted by Euro838


He is resourceful, I'm sure we're going to see a post in careers for &quot;Looking for Internship Job....&quot; here on beyond :) (and probably other car forums too)

For the internship/co-op program, I would suggest you find a place that you would want to work at AFTER you graduate. I know this is the whole point of Internship/Co-op to try out the industry but the reality is the best bet for landing a job with least effort is to go back to the same company.

If you commit to returning or working part time during your studies, it may be possible for you to negotiate a portion or all of your last year's tuition paid for by them. I know of people in my graduating class who did this and I must say it was a very smart move. You will get the additional years of service with them which are usually beneficial in terms of company benefits.

Anyways, good luck with your search.

I've exhausted all the resources I'm aware of and to me access to Joblink represents a fresh place to hunt. I am just a little frustrated at the unfair treatment and I love to vent. :)

Anyhow at this point I'd be ecstatic to find any kind of work that doesn't involve construction or a grocery store but thank you for your advice and kind wishes.

[DC328is]

i am a 4th year economics student in the co-op program.

started looking summer of 08

i too cannot find a job. its a tough market out there guys. just a heads up. dont expect to get a job that easily.

good luck!


Originally posted by jensv
I've been diligently looking for summer work since September. Unfortunately I haven't had much luck with my search.

My personal network is limited I need to rely on the school's job pool. I'm a little upset because up until the beginning of this month I was using a friend's userid to access the pool and applying to the companies directly. Then one day they decide to update the system and access to the openings disappeared ie) the jobs are still there but neither I nor my friend can see them.

Engineers don't have this problem and I guess the University considers Com Sci students second rate. Now after a month of paper work (we apply in December and it's taken all the way until January for approval) I'm -still- not officially part of the program until I get through some paperwork and red tape.

Anyways I'm not impressed. I don't mind competing but I don't understand why I have to jump past all these hurdles just to get started.

[vinc456]

I had an appointment with my advisor but she cancelled it after I sent her my resume because it didn't meet University guidelines. Now I will have to wait until March and a lot of the postings will probably have disappeared by then. :(

If anybody hangs out in the Computer Science Undergrad lab, has access to the internship pool and wouldn't mind letting me at least take a look at what's available right now I would be really grateful. (PM and we can meet) I don't have much experience nor interest with web development which was the bulk of the jobs I saw but if something looks appealing I will try to get access before the deadline.