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View Full Version : New Routine... Suggestions (lint, Oz-, kutt3r, darkane... anyone?)



A790
02-02-2009, 02:24 PM
Right on, so today it's time to change up my routine. I've been doing my current one (a version of Elitelifts year long routine) for 8 weeks and was:

Workout A
Squat 2 x 8-10
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 2 x 8-10
Dips 2 x 8-10
Bent Row 2 x 8-10
DB Overhead Press 1 x 8-10
Pull Ups 2 x 8-10
Weighted Crunch 2 x 12-15

Workout B
Front Squat 2 x 8-10
Deadlift 2 x 8-10
Flat Bench Press 2 x 8-10
One Arm Row 2 x 8-10
Military Press 1 x 8-10
Chin Ups 2 x 8-10
Weighted Reverse Crunch 2 x 12-15

Mon/Wed/Fri, alternating workouts. I must say that I did progress very rapidly for the first 6 weeks (bench went from 135 to 205 stable, squat to 285 stable, etc.) but I've noticed the last few weeks that I'm stagnating a bit. I can't get my BP to 225 without improper form, etc.

So I'm jumping the gun a bit and switching it up to:

Upper A
Pull Ups 2 x 8-10
Incline Bench Press 2 x 8-10
One Arm Row 2 x 8-10
Dips 2 x 8-10
Straight Bar Curl 1 x 8-10
DB Overhead Press 1 x 8-10

Upper B
Chin Ups 2 x 8-10
Flat Bench Press 2 x 8-10
Bent Row 2 x 8-10
Decline Bench Press 2 x 8-10
Hammer Curl 1 x 8-10
Military Press 1 x 8-10

Lower A
Squat 2 x 8-10
Stiff Leg Deadlift 2 x 8-10
Lunge 1 x 8-10
Standing Calf Raise 2 x 8-10
Weighted Crunch 2 x 12-15
Twisting Crunch 1 x 12-15

Lower B
Front Squat 2 x 8-10
Deadlift 2 x 8-10
Lunge 1 x 8-10
Seated Calf Raise 2 x 8-10
Weighted Reverse Crunch 2 x 12-15
Twisting Crunch 1 x 12-15

Pattern is Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri at UA/LA/UB/LB respectively.

Anyone have any suggestions here? I want to keep this thing going. Also, I'm cutting pretty hard this month so I'm not expecting to build a ton of muscle mass, but I would like to continue progressing.

Diet is good. 200g prot/2500 cals on off days, 225g prot/2700 cals on days, Very clean, lots of green veg + oatmeal (non sugar) + eggs + STEAK + chicken + tuna/salmon.

Oz-
02-02-2009, 02:37 PM
First thing I would ask is have you taken a week off (aka deload)? Stick to your diet, but don't lift weights at all or just go to the gym and do half the volume and half the weight. This might be all that you need as you mentioned that you have been on that EliteFTS routine for 8 weeks now, which is right around the time of a typical deload being needed.

By taking an aggressive stance in cutting you might find it difficult to progress from a total tonnage lifted perspective.

Either way, I am always a big fan of the IronAddict Pure Strength Program



Here is a routine a LARGE percentage of the lifters here could make great gains doing.

Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday

FOR THOSE THAT ARE READING COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED THE SCHEDULE GOES LIKE THIS:

1st workout
Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

2nd workout 1 day later
Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

3rd workout 1 day later
Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

4th workout After TWO DAYS OFF
Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday

next workout sequence repeat 1st through 4th workouts

Sets are NOT taken to failure, at least 1 rep short, or to the point RIGHT before form starts to break down. If you do not recover well, reduce 1 set from each of the lifts.

Rep cadence is explosive on the positive, controlled on the negative, no need to count cadence.

After warm-ups use the same weight for all sets. If you cannot get all the sets with the same weight, the weight is too heavy.

If you want to substitute something like dumbbell skull crushers for pushdowns, or hammer curls for barbell curls go ahead. DO NOT SUB OUT BIG COMPOUND MOVEMENTS FOR ISOLATION LIFTS. IF YOU CAN SQUAT AND DEADLIFT, DO THEM. THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT LIFTS IN THE ROUTINE.

Rotate the lifts to something else every 4-8 weeks or whenever a lift stalls.

DELAOD BY DOING 1/2 THE SETS, OR 85% OF THE WEIGHT EVERY 4-8 WEEKS (4-5 WEEKS WORKS BEST FOR MOST PEOPLE.

Suitable substitute lifts:

Squat or box squat, you can front squat, or smith squat (smith ONLY if that is all you can do) You can leg press ONLY IF YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT DO REAGULAR SQUATS AND THE RESULTS WILL NOT BE AS GOOD.
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs
Bent Row or Chest Supported row, you can dumbbell row or machine row
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl, you can do any curl variation
Calf Raises, you can do leg press calfs, standing barbell calf raises, or 1 arm, 1 leg dumbbell calf raises if you don't have a machine

Bench Press or low board press, you can do dumbbell presses or dips
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press, Dumbbell inclines, or smith inclines (use the SMITH ONLY IF THAT IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press, NO SUBS
Skull Crushers, you can do dumbbell skull crushers, overhead tricep extensions with a bar or dumbbells, or tricep push-downs if any of these movements bother your elbows.
Ab work, you can do a weighted sit-up, hanging leg raises, ab-wheel, or an ab machine

Deadlift or rack deadlift, you can do romanian deadlifts, or good-mornings
Leg press, you can front squat
Chin or lat pull-down, NO SUBS
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl, any curl variation
Calf Raises, you can do leg press calfs, standing barbell calf raises, or 1 arm, 1 leg dumbbell calf raises if you don't have a machine

Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press, NO SUBS
Dumbbell Bench Press, You can do dips
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press, you can do upright rows
Tricep pushdowns, you can do a skull crusher, or overhead tricep extension with a barbell or dumbbells
Ab work 3 x 10, You can do a weighted sit-up, hanging leg raises, ab-wheel, or an ab machine

If you can't sub any of these lifts figure it out yourself and quit asking endless questions about what you can sub. The sub list just posted was created after over 100 questions have been asked about "can I do lift B instead of lift A.

Iron Addict

GQBalla
02-02-2009, 02:39 PM
what im doing ^^ thanks again Oz,

only have been on it for a week and myself and others have already noticed a difference

A790
02-02-2009, 02:44 PM
You know what, no, I haven't done a deload. I didn't go to the gym for 4 days this past week (went Mon/Wed/Sunday was squash/cardio), but I haven't done a week long deload.

I'm really trying hard to shed this gut. I've got rid of fat everywhere else, but the gut is clinging to me and it's kind of annoying. I'm hoping 4 weeks of hard cutting will get rid of it.

Wildcat
02-02-2009, 02:46 PM
I'm offended that my name or davidI wasn't dropped in the thread title. lol jk We started the Bodybuilding / Weight Training Forum! :D

A790
02-02-2009, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat
I'm offended that my name or davidI wasn't dropped in the thread title. lol jk We started the Bodybuilding / Weight Training Forum! :D
As soon as I saw your name in the thread I was like "FAWK, I knew I forgot one".

No worries, me nota forget aboot you. ;)

Oz-
02-02-2009, 02:48 PM
Continue doing the cardio, but take the week off from the weights. Seems counter intuitive, but it really does work. When I take my deloads, there is no strength lost and my CNS is ready to fire again for another blast.

Main component is to keep that diet on point during that deload.

Wildcat
02-02-2009, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by A790

As soon as I saw your name in the thread I was like "FAWK, I knew I forgot one".

No worries, me nota forget aboot you. ;)

hahaha I'm just breaking your balls. My advice costs money anyways. :D

What are you at right now for weight and bf%? What's your goals and time frame look like? Are you focused on sport specific/functional training or do you have strictly aesthetic goals in mind?

pm me if you like and i can offer some insight.

lint
02-02-2009, 03:09 PM
I'd second the reload and clarifying your goals. Cutting and increasing strength don't usually go hand in hand. You either want to lose weight OR get your bench up to 225.

A790
02-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by lint
I'd second the reload and clarifying your goals. Cutting and increasing strength don't usually go hand in hand. You either want to lose weight OR get your bench up to 225.
Well I want to cut down. That's the immediate goal. I want the midsection gone. I don't necessarily want a ripped six pack, but I do want the belly flab to be gone.

Darkane
02-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by lint
I'd second the reload and clarifying your goals. Cutting and increasing strength don't usually go hand in hand. You either want to lose weight OR get your bench up to 225.

Well... Cutting and building muscle don't go hand in hand.

Strength and cutting is fine. In fact for the majority of people it's what happens when done right!

I'll concur on the deload. If you got some disposable income we could go a slightly supp heavy route.

Drop cals to 1800-2000, and hit 60G BCAA's/day. 15g 20-40 min before meals.

Trace carbs except for a post workout shake.

This route might not net any new strength/muscle gains for the month, but it should prevent muscle loss and the fat should fall off.

A790
02-02-2009, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Darkane


Well... Cutting and building muscle don't go hand in hand.

Strength and cutting is fine. In fact for the majority of people it's what happens when done right!

I'll concur on the deload. If you got some disposable income we could go a slightly supp heavy route.

Drop cals to 1800-2000, and hit 60G BCAA's/day. 15g 20-40 min before meals.

Trace carbs except for a post workout shake.

This route might not net any new strength/muscle gains for the month, but it should prevent muscle loss and the fat should fall off.

Uhh... what's a BCAA?

kutt3r
02-02-2009, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Oz-
Continue doing the cardio, but take the week off from the weights. Seems counter intuitive, but it really does work. When I take my deloads, there is no strength lost and my CNS is ready to fire again for another blast.

Main component is to keep that diet on point during that deload.

/agreed.. 8 weeks is a long time to push unassisted.

Just another take on a deload is I will drop weight to 60-70%, reps/sets stay the same so that I still hit the gym and get a work out in, but it is pretty lax considering the usual routine. This is done every 4th week.

I am really begining to see how important program/person are... having tried a whack of different routines, I am loving the 5/3/1 from Wendler right now, not sure that everyone would say the same thing, but I feel great on it so far, the simplicity of it allows me to focus my energy on one lift/workout with some accessory work, but I am the small guy here. :D (my goal.. strictly the big 3)

Your workout is fine, Oz's workout is fine (although I like heavier work personally such as Oz's 3x5, 5x5 etc...)...just see if it is fine for you. I am not so sure it is the workout that works, as they all do, they all focus around Squats/Deadlifts/Bench.
I think it is the person doing the work... You can do the work so there is no issue there, take a break fire and fire it up again.

If you need some 'help' (read a kick in the a$$ to make you work a little harder, as I saw how lax you guys were.. ;) ) I can swing by MRC or you can swing out to Okotoks :rolleyes:
(I just have to remember to bring shoes I will not get kicked out for... everyone at my gym laughed at that story btw...cause most of them own Vibrams)

Oz-
02-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Branched-chain amino acids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branched-chain_amino_acids)

Look at Bulk Nutrition for a good price

http://www.bulknutrition.com/advanced_search_result.php?kwords=bcaa&x=0&y=0&categories_id=&inc_subcat=1&manufacturers_id=&pfrom=&pto=&dfrom=&dto=

kutt3r
02-02-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by A790


Uhh... what's a BCAA?

Branch Chain Amino Acids... nastiest tasting sh!t out there.. I have some you can have as I am back to pills.

:barf:

Oz-
02-02-2009, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by kutt3r


Branch Chain Amino Acids... nastiest tasting sh!t out there.. I have some you can have as I am back to pills.

:barf:

Try Xtend by Scivation, helps out quite a bit. Or you could just mix it with Crystal Light if you have the original raw stuff that raw sewage even makes it taste better.

Wildcat
02-02-2009, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Darkane
Strength and cutting is fine. In fact for the majority of people it's what happens when done right!


I'd have to disagree with that statement from personal experience alone. When it's getting close to competition time and my bodyfat% is at its lowest, the weights start feeling heavier Its not a matter of being done right or wrong at all. The trend is common knowledge in the bodybuilding community.

Wildcat
02-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by kutt3r


Branch Chain Amino Acids... nastiest tasting sh!t out there.. I have some you can have as I am back to pills.

:barf:

Or you can just throw it in your arms, you'll get huge in no time lol jk.

But its true, you can inject IM, its common enough.

kutt3r
02-02-2009, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Oz-


Try Xtend by Scivation, helps out quite a bit. Or you could just mix it with Crystal Light if you have the original raw stuff that raw sewage even makes it taste better.

haha I have tried...
I take my Glutamine straight into the mouth (otherwise it just sticks to the glass etc...) and rince with crystal light... tried with the BCAA's, I got them down, but was not pretty...

I think I got Champions Nutrition as I was not able to get my order in to TP in time... I will have to check the Xtend out though.

Thanks!

Oz-
02-02-2009, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat


I'd have to disagree with that statement from personal experience alone. When it's getting close to competition time and my bodyfat% is at its lowest, the weights start feeling heavier Its not a matter of being done right or wrong at all. The trend is common knowledge in the bodybuilding community.

Sorry to get off topic.

Is the weight heavier because your body is close to the breaking point at 1,2,3 weeks out and the caloric deficit is catching up to you? Or do you think it is more of leverages being changed from the dramatic weight loss?

Wildcat
02-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Oz-


Sorry to get off topic.

Is the weight heavier because your body is close to the breaking point at 1,2,3 weeks out and the caloric deficit is catching up to you? Or do you think it is more of leverages being changed from the dramatic weight loss?

The strength usually starts to go 6-7 weeks into the 16 week diet. From there it keeps dropping marginally at a uniform rate right up until 1 week out, then it plummets. Like to the strength of a 14 year old girl. I wouldn't attribute it to any structural changes but more so due to carb depletion, dehydration, diet and training redundancy.

civic_rida
02-02-2009, 05:00 PM
xtend is amazing just dont buy it at gnc rip off.

civic_rida
02-02-2009, 05:01 PM
wildcat whens your next show

kutt3r
02-02-2009, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat


Or you can just throw it in your arms, you'll get huge in no time lol jk.

But its true, you can inject IM, its common enough.

haha I think that is the only reason I have never tried Vitamin S... is the thought of needles...

I know I am a big pu$$y... and will always be the little guy.
:cry:

kutt3r
02-02-2009, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by civic_rida
wildcat whens your next show

June 6 ABBA-Northern Alberta Bodybuilding Championships & Provincial Juniors, Masters & Grandmasters
Promoter: Cabel McElderry Edmonton, AB

June 13 ABBA-Southern Alberta Bodybuilding Championships & Provincial Fitness, Masters Figure & Fitness Model Competition
Promoter: Cabel McElderry Red Deer, AB

June 20 ABBA-Donna & Brian Logue Alberta Provincial Classic, Couples & Figure Championships
Promoter: Paramount Productions/John Dirks Location: Winspear Auditorium Edmonton, AB

???

I will be at the June 13th show... not in a banana hamock, supporting someone in one... eww that sounded bad :D

civic_rida
02-02-2009, 05:17 PM
There is also a fame show in april.

Wildcat
02-02-2009, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by civic_rida
wildcat whens your next show

Southerns training would start on Feb 16th. Still on the fence as to whether or not I'll compete. I got a lot going on in my life right now and may just hold off till next year. Those things require a huge commitment if you're in it to win it, I don't want to half ass anything.

Darkane
02-02-2009, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat


I'd have to disagree with that statement from personal experience alone. When it's getting close to competition time and my bodyfat% is at its lowest, the weights start feeling heavier Its not a matter of being done right or wrong at all. The trend is common knowledge in the bodybuilding community.

Yes agreed.

Most of the info/advice I give out here is for the atheltic/weekend warrior.

It is waaay different for someone in your shoes who is carrying boatloads of muscle already. Remember newb gains? That's the majority of people :)

I know how the BB guys get prepped for shows, and Losing some strength is part of the game there.