Looking at after degree in Computer Science - Currently Petroleum Engineer

[zither99]

I'm graduating this April with a 4-year Petroleum Engineering degree from the UofA but finding a job isn't easy since I dont have previous industry experience, (used to be a tile setter in construction during the summers).
Because of the current economic downturn I'm thinking of staying in school to either do an after degree in Computer Science (kind of my initial interest) and later pursue a job as a Systems Analyst.
Another option would be a masters in petroleum engineering, but that is not that appealing to me.

Anyone know what systems analysts do? Besides descriptions like this: http://www.bls.gov/k12/computers06.htm
What their pay is like?

Suggestions/comments please!

[Dr_Funk]

The industry may be slowing down but you should still be able to get a job in your field.

I am graduating from UofC this April with an Oil and Gas engineering degree and I have a job lined up for July. The majority of my class (I would say at least 95%) already have jobs.

But I guess if oil and gas is not something you want to get into, then it doesn't really matter how many jobs are out there.

[Super_Geo]

Wait, so you're willing to throw out 4 years of education because it might take a bit of time and some real effort to find a job?

That sounds ridiculous. Yeah times are slow, but you never know when the markets will move.

But still, to take on a whole new degree that would pay less than the one you're just completing just because you don't want to man up and go through a serious job hunt is pretty weak on your part.

[ExtraSlow]

If you are truly uninterested in the oil and gas industry, then yeah, find something else now.
if you are doing this as a knee jerk reaction to some perceived difficulty in getting a job, then get over yourself and start pounding the pavement.

I graduated in 2004 with an oil and Gas Enginering degree, and I had 16 months of internship expereince. Still, it took me eight months of interviews after graduation to land a decent job. I worked at a fertilizer plant during that time, literally shovelling shit, to pay my bills.

[Euro838]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
Wait, so you're willing to throw out 4 years of education because it might take a bit of time and some real effort to find a job?

That sounds ridiculous. Yeah times are slow, but you never know when the markets will move.

But still, to take on a whole new degree that would pay less than the one you're just completing just because you don't want to man up and go through a serious job hunt is pretty weak on your part.

Good advice there but you should always do something you like and meets your lifestyle. Don't do it because you think it's easier to get a job or pays more. At the end of the day, if you don't like what you are doing, then it won't really matter how much they pay you (It's not like it's paying you millions really).

I'd suggest furthering your degree into a Masters, you will stand out way more than having 2 degrees. Who knows, you may develop a further appreciation of the subject as you become a leader in the industry.

I'm assuming you probably won't have to deal with as much of the undergraduate BS that may annoy you.

[gretz]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

I graduated in 2004 with an oil and Gas Enginering degree, and I had 16 months of internship expereince. Still, it took me eight months of interviews after graduation to land a decent job. I worked at a fertilizer plant during that time, literally shovelling shit, to pay my bills.

I graduated 04 with a mech eng degree - i landscaped and framed houses for almost 2 years before i landed my job. Its not easy to get your foot in the door, but it doesn't really seem like you've given it an effort (zither99)

[w_man]

To answer your question .. and this solely based on my own experience/research. A systems analyst can have different tasks in different companies. Being in Alberta, you may very well end up with an Oil & Gas company anyways.

As a Systems Analyst, you could be involved in projects like systems/software implementations. This is where a company has decided to go with lets say .. SAP, you would be part of the project team who is implementing the system at the company. You would be working with business analysts to determine the best way to implement the new application with very little (negative) impact on the users. You may not be the one handling the nitty gritty stuff like setting up the database, permissions, security but as an Analyst, you will asked to provide feedback on the best practice (from an IT perspective) as well as be the middle man between Business and IT.

Most of the time I have seen people who are in this field to start from a programming/development level when they graduate and then with experience move up to the System Analyst position. This is simply because you are not normally required to do technical stuff but you should have a fair bit of knowledge when it comes to infrastructure and best practices. This is usually obtained from experience.

The pay structure varies of course. You can start from anywhere between 50 - 65k (not sure in about this recent economy) and then after 4-5 years could be in the bracket of 70 - 85k. Eventually (if you do the type of work I mentioned above), you could move into a consulting position, which can pay quite a bit more .. I have heard of guys charging $100 - $150 an hour.

On a side note, as someone already mentioned; I wouldn't move into Computer Sciences if you are graduating from an Engineering program. Unless you really dislike Engineering, the pay and potential for growth is much higher as an Engineer in my opinion. I personally dont think it should be very difficult to get an EIT position in Oil & Gas in Calgary and once you are a P.Eng, you are pretty much set for life.

[kaput]

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[Euro_Trash]

Hey Karl (I'm thinking it is you using the same username from TCL haha). Check out some of the E&P company websites for hiring. Some of them are looking for techs to cover operating positions, and you might be able to get your foot in the door there (assuming you want to continue as an engineer in the O&G industry). Operating will at least get you connected with a company.
You could also go work on a service rig or with a wireline crew or something to pad the resume with some experience. At least then when the industry turns around again your resume will be stronger with some related experience.

[zither99]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
But still, to take on a whole new degree that would pay less than the one you're just completing just because you don't want to man up and go through a serious job hunt is pretty weak on your part.

That's the surprising thing, according to alis.gov.ab.ca Information Systems Analyst: The average salary was $111,700 a year.
Petroleum Engineer: The average salary was $94,100 a year.
And for good measure, a DENTIST makes: The average salary was $111,500 a year.

I'm sending my resume to every offer on the University job boards, plus some directly on company websites, I had my resume looked over by professional resume writer, etc etc. I'm trying but getting no responses kinda sucks. If I'm out of school and I still have no job I'll be going to companies in person I think.

what sucks is people had interviews, seemed like it went well, then the company never called back. They inquired why, and the answer was: "recent economic downturn". this was for my friend in electrical applying at Baker Hughes.

I'm not giving up, but seems like I'm the last 5% without a job... grrrr


Originally posted by Euro838
I'd suggest furthering your degree into a Masters, you will stand out way more than having 2 degrees. Who knows, you may develop a further appreciation of the subject as you become a leader in the industry.

I'm assuming you probably won't have to deal with as much of the undergraduate BS that may annoy you.
I like the idea of a Masters too, since like you mentioned, it cuts away the undergrad BS. I don't mind petroleum, I actually like Drilling the most (the field they hire the most MecE's for) and I think staying in school for another 2 years would help me stand out after I graduate because of more professional development/research and perhaps the rough economic time will be done with by then.



The reason I'm asking about a Computer Science degree is because the g/f is pushing me in that direction. Her parents are both CS grads, mom is a software tester working on Contract making $90/hr and dad works as, you guessed it, Systems Analyst for the gov of ab.




Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Still, it took me eight months of interviews after graduation to land a decent job.

Wow, 8 months of interviews, I'm jelous. I'm applying since September and didn't land a single interview. And this goes for 2 other friends of mine with no previous o&g experience, which is the same spot i'm in.



Originally posted by Euro_Trash
Check out some of the E&P company websites for hiring. Some of them are looking for techs to cover operating positions, and you might be able to get your foot in the door there (assuming you want to continue as an engineer in the O&G industry). Operating will at least get you connected with a company.
You could also go work on a service rig or with a wireline crew or something to pad the resume with some experience. At least then when the industry turns around again your resume will be stronger with some related experience.

I'm looking for anything at the moment. Operating would be the ideal experience towards drilling engineering, or any other O&G related job. I constantly check company websites for job postings, maybe it's just usually the bigger ones that I look at and am missing the smaller companies. Maybe you can link me to some info? (And yes, I do want to stay in O&G, CS is an idea just being kicked around at this moment)

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by zither99




I'm not giving up, but seems like I'm the last 5% without a job... grrrr




Believe me, you are far from being only one in 5%. The majority of the non-coops still don't have jobs yet. Lots of co-ops don't either.
As for jobs, I will take it to PM

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by zither99
Wow, 8 months of interviews, I'm jelous. I'm applying since September and didn't land a single interview. And this goes for 2 other friends of mine with no previous o&g experience, which is the same spot i'm in.
That's Eight months of interviews AFTER I graduated.

How are your cover letters? Are you re-writing it for each and every job? Should take an hour or research at least for every position. My current boss told me he doesn't even read resumes, only cover letters.

And about those salary figures you quoted, often those surveys don't include the value of stock options or other "at risk" components of your compensation. In bad years they may not be much, but in good years they are 20-40% for an oil and gas engineer. I believe that would push the total average compensation well above the IT positions you mentioned.

[googe]

your numbers seem out to lunch...

this is from http://alis.gov.ab.ca/

Information Systems Analysts and Consultants
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $72,351

Information Systems Quality Assurance Analysts (aka "tester")
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $62,224

Software Engineers and Designers
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $66,643

Systems Tester
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $38,734

Petroleum Engineer
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $94,068

and those are AVERAGE, not "starting".
:dunno:

[kaput]

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[zither99]

Originally posted by googe
your numbers seem out to lunch...

this is from http://alis.gov.ab.ca/

Information Systems Analysts and Consultants
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $72,351

Information Systems Quality Assurance Analysts (aka "tester")
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $62,224

Software Engineers and Designers
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $66,643

Systems Tester
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $38,734

Petroleum Engineer
Overall Average Salary (annual)*, Alberta $94,068

and those are AVERAGE, not "starting".
:dunno:

Thats actually really weird, because thats the very same site I got my info from, copy + paste:

Salary section revised JANUARY 2008

According to the 2007 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, Albertans in the Information Systems Business Analysts and Consultants occupational group working part-time or full-time earned from $49,800 to $134,600 a year. The average salary was $111,700 a year.


:dunno: all your numbers are very exact, when I look at the site the wages are rounded to the hundred, as if we're looking at different sites altogether. ie for a PetE:

Salary section revised JANUARY 2008

According to the 2007 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, Albertans in the Petroleum Engineers occupational group working part-time or full-time earned from $47,800 to $200,600 a year. The average salary was $94,100 a year.



But yeah, Alis is not very accurate at times...

[googe]

^ ah, that's describing an upper management position. to do that you'll not only need comp sci, but business/management degree or equivalent experience. zero chance of making anything close to that fresh out of school with a comp sci degree.