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civicrider
02-05-2009, 05:07 PM
so i started working out last year around September, going 3-4 times a week, i've put on some good size going from 128 up to 150. Except the last month i have not gone anywhere, i have deloaded for a week as well changed up my routine. The only supplement i take is quickmass. So first off i am looking for new supplements something with more protien and less calories, as i feel a little flabby around the stomach. So what do you recommend for supplements? I am going to try this routine posted by oz

Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday


I will probably add in some cardio somewhere as well. I guess im looking for suggestions to get me rolling again, putting on over 20lbs in three months was good and id like to get back to gaining.

Darkane
02-05-2009, 06:26 PM
Good routine, I think that's Iron Addicts Simple Power Routine.

Do this for supps:

Get a good multi-vitamin. This alone will supercharge your energy and mood. Animal Pak, Beverly Super Pak.

Fish oil, get a good brand online. Carlson's finest, Biotest's Flameout etc.

ZMA pre bed.

and finally Whey Isolate.

That's all you need. No gainers, no blah blah flashy shit.

As for the stalled weight gain, it's time to clean up the diet to 95-100%, ADD protein (because now you're bigger), and more fats. Keep carbs where they are.

I'd kill the cardio for now too. Cardio will just use the calories which would be put to good muscle building use.

From now on try to eat as many of your allowed carbs pre and post workout as possible. They will be used more efficiently that way.

Have you been keeping a food log or know how much you've been eating lately?

civicrider
02-05-2009, 09:41 PM
ive been keeping a rough log of my diet, im always around 3000 good calories a day but i think i could use some more protein, with the quickmass with 4 scoops you only get 54g of protein i found one product with one scoop about the same size you get 30g of protein.

what does fish oil do that's so great? as well what is ZMA pre bed?

Darkane
02-05-2009, 09:57 PM
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/218876/reasons-for-fish-oil-supplementation-/

ZMA - Zinc-Magnesium Aspartate

Zinc and Mag are extremely important in Testosterone production AND function. It'll keep your system producing as much as it can naturally and keep the estrogen down. Also works well for relaxation and helps sleep.

Don't take it with calcium as calcium blocks the zinc absorption.

civicrider
02-05-2009, 10:23 PM
okay what about ths fish oil, how does that work?

im between 80-100g of protein per day right now

Darkane
02-05-2009, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by civicrider
okay what about ths fish oil, how does that work?

im between 80-100g of protein per day right now

Wow that protein is low man, double that shit like yesterday! The gains will return with renewed vigor.

How much fat were you eating?

Read the thread link I posted for fish oil.

BumbleBeeCivic
02-06-2009, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by civicrider
so i started working out last year around September, going 3-4 times a week, i've put on some good size going from 128 up to 150. Except the last month i have not gone anywhere, i have deloaded for a week as well changed up my routine. The only supplement i take is quickmass. So first off i am looking for new supplements something with more protien and less calories, as i feel a little flabby around the stomach. So what do you recommend for supplements? I am going to try this routine posted by oz

Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday


I will probably add in some cardio somewhere as well. I guess im looking for suggestions to get me rolling again, putting on over 20lbs in three months was good and id like to get back to gaining.

wow, that seems like a pretty low volume workout. what is this designed for? building mass?

Darkane
02-06-2009, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by BumbleBeeCivic


wow, that seems like a pretty low volume workout. what is this designed for? building mass?

Power, but you'd be surprised with the size gains.

It's not that low of volume, it's meant to be intense.

civicrider
02-06-2009, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Darkane


Wow that protein is low man, double that shit like yesterday! The gains will return with renewed vigor.

How much fat were you eating?

Read the thread link I posted for fish oil.

I remembered why my protein count was low, i forgot dinner haha, so around 130g and with my new shake i should be over 160g per day

ragu
02-06-2009, 09:03 AM
sorry for thread hijack but has anyone ordered supplements through bodybuilding.com? cos they seem pretty cheap, was shipping a hassle?

kutt3r
02-07-2009, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by ragu
sorry for thread hijack but has anyone ordered supplements through bodybuilding.com? cos they seem pretty cheap, was shipping a hassle?

Yes.
No.

They were perfectly fine for me.
:thumbsup:

ragu
02-07-2009, 11:17 PM
^^Thanks man.

I am gonna place an order soon, gonna save a lot of money:thumbsup: ....screw GNC and popeyes...

civicrider
02-10-2009, 09:22 PM
so with some new supplements im going to update my diet
how does this sound

breakfast
1/3 cup cottage cheese
couple scoops of yogurt mixed with granola cereal

snack
boost drink
hand full of almonds
trail mix bar
banana or orange

lunch
tuna sandwich
2x hard boiled eggs
oatmeal muffin

snack
couple scoops cottage cheese
250-500ml milk

pre workout
Optimum 100% Whey Protein 1scoop in 250ml 2% milk

post workout
Optimum 100% Whey Protein 1scoop in 250ml 2% milk
and creatine

Dinner
chicken breast
potatoes

(dinner varies of course)

and possibly a small snack before bed and some ZMA

should put me around 160-170g protein a day

Darkane
02-11-2009, 04:15 PM
Looks pretty decent actually.

See if you can up the protein. If you were eating 160g before and stopped gaining it doesn't make sense to keep it there.

If I understood correctly, you were gaining some fat, so the added calories from carbs isn't a great idea.

Shoot for 225g protein, that will put you in the 1.5g/lb area.


Couple suggestions, Post workout you might want to try something like gatorade powder instead of the milk for carbs. You'll need the fast carbs (50G or so) and the insulin spike will aid with the creatine absorption. Also the fat in the milk might slow down the protein/carbs uptake.

Next, for your post work out meal, since it's at night try something slower than potatoes. I'd go with brown rice, yams, sweet potatoes, Oats, whole wheat pasta etc.

Use this: http://www.glycemicindex.com/

Go to the database and search your favorite foods. Anything 50 and lower is considered "low GI" and is slower absorbing. These are the carbs to consume 90% of the time. Post work out shake we want the sugars.

And finally if you do have a snack pre-bed, make sure it has trace or no carbs and does not contain calcium. Calcium will interfere with the zinc from ZMA.

Hit it hard.

civicrider
02-11-2009, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Darkane
Looks pretty decent actually.

See if you can up the protein. If you were eating 160g before and stopped gaining it doesn't make sense to keep it there.

If I understood correctly, you were gaining some fat, so the added calories from carbs isn't a great idea.

Shoot for 225g protein, that will put you in the 1.5g/lb area.


Couple suggestions, Post workout you might want to try something like gatorade powder instead of the milk for carbs. You'll need the fast carbs (50G or so) and the insulin spike will aid with the creatine absorption. Also the fat in the milk might slow down the protein/carbs uptake.

Next, for your post work out meal, since it's at night try something slower than potatoes. I'd go with brown rice, yams, sweet potatoes, Oats, whole wheat pasta etc.

Use this: http://www.glycemicindex.com/

Go to the database and search your favorite foods. Anything 50 and lower is considered "low GI" and is slower absorbing. These are the carbs to consume 90% of the time. Post work out shake we want the sugars.

And finally if you do have a snack pre-bed, make sure it has trace or no carbs and does not contain calcium. Calcium will interfere with the zinc from ZMA.

Hit it hard.

With that diet I just posted that's adding about 60G of protein compared to my previous diet, which when i counted everything together was 100-110 so fairly low, so now I have upped it, If i did exactly the diet i posted its around 170g protein (i actually sat down and added up based on the nutrition facts)

I am dropping the quickmass to reduce calories and use the whey protein that has less calories and more protein per scoop. The creatine i take right now says to take right after the workout, would it be okay to mix with the water i drink during my workout? I will cut back on the milk and drink more water and or gatorade. I will check out that site as well thanks.

Also is it a good idea to eat right before working out or to eat an hour or so before?

Wildcat
02-11-2009, 05:19 PM
You got to man up and eat more in my opinion. Everything is perfect but that diet is weak sauce. I've seen vagina's take in more meat than that.

Dump the snacks and take in 2 more well rounded meals like your having for dinner. 3 Protein shakes in between when your hungry. This simple change is most likely to yield the results your looking for than other factors like training or supplements.

civicrider
02-11-2009, 05:25 PM
I was going to add in a chicken wrap as an afternoon snack with at least one good sized chicken breast in it. I feel like im putting on a bit of a belly, and that's why i'm trying to eat more protein in the day and less calories. It's not like a beer gut or anything but i used to have some what of abs and now they are fading as i am putting on this weight.

Wildcat
02-11-2009, 05:28 PM
meh, you need some clay if you want to build a sculpture.


write that down.

civicrider
02-11-2009, 05:55 PM
haha good saying, my goal is 170-175lbs with a nice cut

Darkane
02-11-2009, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by civicrider
haha good saying, my goal is 170-175lbs with a nice cut

At how tall?

175 with a nice cut assuming 8-10% is pretty big actually!

civicrider
02-11-2009, 08:59 PM
im 5 11
so being around 175 i think will look good, im not looking to get super jacked or be a bodybuilder, just be toned and healthy:thumbsup:

from starting at 128 if i reach my goal i think i will be very impressed with how i look, already just over 150 im getting a ton of complements.

Wildcat
02-11-2009, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by civicrider
iim not looking to get super jacked or be a bodybuilder,

Don't be concerned about that, its not like its something that happens overnight. Train as hard as you can and eat as much good foods as possible and you will be closer to reaching your goals sooner than you think.

civicrider
02-11-2009, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat


Don't be concerned about that, its not like its something that happens overnight. Train as hard as you can and eat as much good foods as possible and you will be closer to reaching your goals sooner than you think.

yeah, i guess i got off to a really good start and now i am just looking to keep the ball rolling, i'll take your advise and up the food even more and we will see how it goes

civicrider
02-25-2009, 12:35 PM
good news with my new program and upping the diet ive gotten 4 more pounds in two weeks :thumbsup:

Wildcat
02-25-2009, 12:38 PM
Good, build off of that. Eat more, train harder, keep going.

buh_buh
02-25-2009, 12:40 PM
I switched to this program too a little over 3 weeks ago, and the gains are pretty insane (gains in terms of strength gains, not weight gains. I haven't stepped on a scale in close to 6 months so I have no idea if I've had weight gains). I plateaued for a while on most of my exercises, probably because I've been on the same program for like the past 6 months if not even longer, and I noticed huge gains when I switched even in the second week or the program and they haven't really tapered off much.

:thumbsup: to IA power program.

theken
02-25-2009, 12:49 PM
Squats and body exercises will give your weight gains

ZorroAMG
02-25-2009, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Wildcat
meh, you need some clay if you want to build a sculpture.


write that down.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: LOVE that!!

Darkane
02-25-2009, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: LOVE that!!

How's your Program coming Zorro? Still on the first Phase or whatever it is?

liquidboi69
02-27-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Darkane
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/218876/reasons-for-fish-oil-supplementation-/

ZMA - Zinc-Magnesium Aspartate

Zinc and Mag are extremely important in Testosterone production AND function. It'll keep your system producing as much as it can naturally and keep the estrogen down. Also works well for relaxation and helps sleep.

Don't take it with calcium as calcium blocks the zinc absorption.
I know for proper ZMA, the dosages are 450mg mag, 30mg zinc, and 10.5 B6. And these dosages are what the studies are done on also. But I was wondering if it really matters, or if the zinc is the only thing that actually matters.

I ask this because I want to buy NOW ZMA which has slightly different dosages. http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/zma.html

kutt3r
02-28-2009, 12:04 PM
Everything looks ok and I agree with both Darkane and Wildcat about the food and sups.

Fish oil - how much are you taking and are you adding it into your cals? I think I have heard everything from 9gr to 30gr.. if you are working out hard I like the 20gr range.. but remember that is 180cals right there....

I personally look at 1.5gr/pro as a minimum. I would look to 2gr a day ensuring you are getting a min of 20-25% fat in your diet.. this is pretty standard for gaining mass while reducing fat... the rest of your cals coming from carbs..

I would personally use a carb cut off as I see you have potatoes as a last meal.. not something I would do or recommend unless you are very carb tolerant.

MOST IMPORTANT.. keep a friggin log to see what changes you make did what.. so that it is easier to figure out later... so many noobs & vets do not keep a log and I think it is imperative for both lifting and eating if you are serious.

Good luck man...

bigbadboss101
02-28-2009, 01:29 PM
High fat died for cutting fat? Friend of mine mentioned that so would you go 30% fat, 50% protein and 20% carb?

Regarding fish oil, at 30g a day one would go thru a container a week. Would anything under 3-4g/day be useless?

liquidboi69
02-28-2009, 02:47 PM
If you're just taking omega-3's, I read that for ~160lb around 2grams of EPA + DHA is enough (note this differs from grams of fish oil in the whole cap.) The dosage ingredients you should be looking for is the EPA + DHA combination.

You could take more, and it wouldn't hurt. But I just read that 2grams is enough for all the positive effects of omega supplementation.

liquidboi69
02-28-2009, 02:50 PM
"However, people who eat more than 3 grams of omega-3 fatty acids per day (equivalent to 3 servings of fish per day) may be at an increased risk for hemorrhagic stroke, a potentially fatal type of stroke in which an artery in the brain leaks or ruptures."

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000316.htm

Darkane
02-28-2009, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by liquidboi69
If you're just taking omega-3's, I read that for ~160lb around 2grams of EPA + DHA is enough (note this differs from grams of fish oil in the whole cap.) The dosage ingredients you should be looking for is the EPA + DHA combination.

You could take more, and it wouldn't hurt. But I just read that 2grams is enough for all the positive effects of omega supplementation.

Mostly we're after fish oil supplementation for the anabolic effects first than the health benefits.

2g may help reduce chance of heart attack, lower cholesterol a bit etc. But the higher doses will make a difference with fat oxidation, anabolism etc.

Little thing on the ZMA, I guess the FDA is banning the form of B6 (Pyroxidine<sp>) They are claiming it a "drug" now and all companies selling ZMA with this compound can be charged for illegal drug trafficking. Good stuff eh? A compound naturally found in meat, eggs, fish.. Those motherfucking socialists.

EDIT: http://www.naturalnews.com/025606.html

Lol I just bought 7 bottles of ZMA from Trueprotein 2 weeks ago. Man I'm glad I did!

liquidboi69
03-01-2009, 03:51 PM
Ya I read about that too. God damn FDA are nazi's.

kutt3r
03-01-2009, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Darkane


Mostly we're after fish oil supplementation for the anabolic effects first than the health benefits.

2g may help reduce chance of heart attack, lower cholesterol a bit etc. But the higher doses will make a difference with fat oxidation, anabolism etc.

Little thing on the ZMA, I guess the FDA is banning the form of B6 (Pyroxidine&lt;sp&gt;) They are claiming it a &quot;drug&quot; now and all companies selling ZMA with this compound can be charged for illegal drug trafficking. Good stuff eh? A compound naturally found in meat, eggs, fish.. Those motherfucking socialists.

EDIT: http://www.naturalnews.com/025606.html

Lol I just bought 7 bottles of ZMA from Trueprotein 2 weeks ago. Man I'm glad I did!

What a joke that is.. but they have not done it yet have they??? Wonder how fast Canada will be to follow.. I would assume it is still legal here?

Pretty soon vitamin C will be a drug too... *sigh*

civicrider
03-02-2009, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by kutt3r
Everything looks ok and I agree with both Darkane and Wildcat about the food and sups.

Fish oil - how much are you taking and are you adding it into your cals? I think I have heard everything from 9gr to 30gr.. if you are working out hard I like the 20gr range.. but remember that is 180cals right there....

I personally look at 1.5gr/pro as a minimum. I would look to 2gr a day ensuring you are getting a min of 20-25% fat in your diet.. this is pretty standard for gaining mass while reducing fat... the rest of your cals coming from carbs..

I would personally use a carb cut off as I see you have potatoes as a last meal.. not something I would do or recommend unless you are very carb tolerant.

MOST IMPORTANT.. keep a friggin log to see what changes you make did what.. so that it is easier to figure out later... so many noobs &amp; vets do not keep a log and I think it is imperative for both lifting and eating if you are serious.

Good luck man...

right now i am not taking fish oil, there seems to be so many different ones and i an doing research to find out what one is the best to use.
as far are protien goes i am constantly adding more into my diet, if i could get up to 200g a day i would be really happy, even where i am not its going very well. The potatoes were just an example of a mean i might have
like last night instead of potatoes o had brown rice.

civicrider
03-23-2009, 08:22 PM
so with this power workout i am having troubles pushing myself with any leg related workout, squats and dead lifts are giving my knees troubles and i feel that it might be holding back my gains. I plan on adding fish oil and purple k creatine into my supplements and see if it helps.

Is there some other leg workout i could do with less stress on the knees?

Darkane
03-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by civicrider
so with this power workout i am having troubles pushing myself with any leg related workout, squats and dead lifts are giving my knees troubles and i feel that it might be holding back my gains. I plan on adding fish oil and purple k creatine into my supplements and see if it helps.

Is there some other leg workout i could do with less stress on the knees?

Use a box for the squats. The trick to knee health is to "sit back" in a squat.

With a box under you it's easy. It teaches you form. Your shin should be perpendicular with the floor or close. A little forward lean is ok.

Most likely your posterior chain (hams, glutes) are to weak for a proper squat. No problems, use a box and try to "spread" the floor when you ascend. Your knees should not come inward.

18" should be 1" above parallel for you. That will prevent all knee issues.

EDIT: You can trust me on knee issues, I'm missing both my meniscus in both my knees. Basically my Patella (knee cap) rubs all day long :thumbsup:

Even more reason for proper fish oil supplementation.

lint
03-23-2009, 09:42 PM
there is no way to squat properly with your shins perpendicular. The knees have to move forward. With a low bar position, the knees extend just past the toes, more if you're using high bar.

A proper squat shouldn't cause any knee discomfort. Is your stance wide enough, are your feet pointed out at ~30 degrees? And are your knees tracking over your toes?

Darkane
03-23-2009, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by lint
there is no way to squat properly with your shins perpendicular. The knees have to move forward. With a low bar position, the knees extend just past the toes, more if you're using high bar.



Perhaps true. But Louie Simmons would have something to say about that.

I agree with you for the most part, however I have poor hip flexion and ankle mobility which cause me to lean slightly more forward than I should. This causes my knees to be less than perpendicular.

However, I'm rectifying the situation with Eric Cressy and Mike Robertson's Magnificent Mobility DVD.

It's made a HUGE difference in my back already. Working on the hips.

civicrider
03-23-2009, 10:57 PM
its not a knee problem because of the squats its injuries from sports that leaves them feeling sore no matter what, if i don't push myself too hard they seem good, i guess i am more worried about injuring my knee causing more problems

Darkane
03-23-2009, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by civicrider
its not a knee problem because of the squats its injuries from sports that leaves them feeling sore no matter what, if i don't push myself too hard they seem good, i guess i am more worried about injuring my knee causing more problems

Yes. Mine were from being to heavy all my life. Playing 5 years of football killed them.

So yeah, I know what it's like. I'm still 225 pounds haha.

If you're really interested in being pro-active and STAYING injury free, Check out Mike Robertson's "Bulletproof Knees"

You'll be glad you did!