2009 F1 Winter Group Tests Week #2 - Feb 10-13

[rage2]

Almost time for the 2nd and 3rd round of group testing this week.

Red Bull showed off their new car today, the RB5, and after 9 laps, developed a problem, and finished up for the day. No laptimes to report there.

So official testing starts tomorrow at Jerez and Bahrain for 4 days. Group Test #3 stays in Bahrain for the Bahrain group, with the Jerez group moving to Barcelona for the 18th-20th Test #3. With only 1 test driver allowed per day, here are the driver schedules:

McLaren @ Jerez
10, 11 - Heikki
12, 13 - Lewis

Renault @ Jerez
10, 11 - Piquet
12, 13 - Alonso

Williams @ Jerez
10 - Hulkenberg
11 - Nakajima
12 - Rosberg
13 - Nakajima (morning) Rosberg (afternoon)

Red Bull Racing @ Jerez
10 - Vettel
11 - Webber
12 - Vettel
13 - Webber

Scuderia Torro Rosso @ Jerez
10 - Buemi
11 - Bourdais
12 - Buemi
13 - Bourdais

Ferrari @ Bahrain
10, 11 - Massa
12, 13 - Raikkonen
16, 17 - Raikkonen
18, 19 - Massa

BMW @ Bahrain
10, 11, 12 - Kubica
13 - Klien
16 - Klien
17, 18, 19 - Heidfeld

Toyota @ Bahrain
10, 11 - Glock
12, 13 - Trulli
16, 17 - Trulli
18, 19 - Glock

[Vagabond142]

Is it just me, or does that seem like a really small testing field? :dunno:

[rage2]

That's all teams minus Honda (withdrew, no new buyer yet), and Force India. I haven't heard much about Force India at all...

There will be a lot less cars on the track for testing this year, seeing as only 1 car per team is allowed at any time.

[Vagabond142]

I'm wondering if they'll even get a field of 22 for the first race :\

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Vagabond142
I'm wondering if they'll even get a field of 22 for the first race :\ ...aren't there only 10 teams? 9 without Honda. I don't see any way we'd get 22 this year. Maybe next year if Honda gets purchased and USF1 gets approved.

[buh_buh]

we won't even get 20 this year minus Honda.
Its too late for the Honda deal to be worthwhile for somebody since theyve missed all this R&D and test time. If they wanted any chance to be competitive, they needed a buyer in December. And I don't think USF1 is real either, but we'll see.

[rage2]

There will be most likely 18 cars on the grid for the first race. The minimum amount of cars required is 16 (although some TV contracts have it at 18), so unless another team drops out, things will be fine.

In the case where total cars drop to 16 or less, FIA will ask other teams (most likely McLaren and Ferrari) to run a 3rd car. This 3rd car will not compete for constructors or drivers championships, so it's pretty much free testing for the teams.

[DJ Lazy]

If they did run that 3rd car, does it go through qualifying the same as the rest? or are they placed at the back of the grid by default? Would suck for other teams if cars that can't compete for either championship, can take away top 10 grid spots.. Just wondering how that works..

[buh_buh]

that's bs.
Cars that aren't running for points will just "let" their teammates through and block those that are running for points. The system won't really work with some cars running for points and some that are not.

I think they should get rid of the team orders rule anyway since everybody does it. They just have to be a little more discrete about it now, although its still pretty obvious when it happens.

[Vagabond142]

What they really need is to have the A1 Nations Grand Prix series on North American TV <_< Those are incredible races to watch as everyone runs the same car, so it's all down to driver skill

[Mibz]

Originally posted by buh_buh
that's bs.
Cars that aren't running for points will just &quot;let&quot; their teammates through and block those that are running for points. The system won't really work with some cars running for points and some that are not.

I think they should get rid of the team orders rule anyway since everybody does it. They just have to be a little more discrete about it now, although its still pretty obvious when it happens. FIA asks McLaren to put an extra car out. Accuses them of using it to their own advantage. Ferrari wins.

I don't see why the FIA doesn't do this every year.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by Vagabond142
What they really need is to have the A1 Nations Grand Prix series on North American TV &lt;_&lt; Those are incredible races to watch as everyone runs the same car, so it's all down to driver skill if you want to watch spec racing, go watch GP2. That's not what F1 is about.

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by buh_buh
if you want to watch spec racing, go watch GP2. That's not what F1 is about.

+1

[rage2]

Day 1 times are now final.

Bahrain:
1. T. Glock Toyota TF109 1:33.501 82 laps
2. F. Massa Ferrari F60 1:33.615 +0.114 98 laps
3. R. Kubica BMW Sauber F1.09 1:33.702 +0.201 95 laps

Jerez:
1. S. Buemi Toro Rosso (2008) 1.19:660 104 laps
2. S. Vettel Red Bull 1.22:177 +2.517 63 laps
3. N. Hülkenberg Williams 1.22:443 +2.783 82 laps
4. H. Kovalainen McLaren 1.22:634 +2.974 66 laps
5. N. Piquet Renault 1.23:313 +3.653 35 laps

Ignore the Torro Rosso's times, they're still running their 2008 car.

[rage2]

And press releases.

Ferrari:

Balance at Bahrain

A positive outcome at the end of the first day of the Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro's test sessions at the Sakhir circuit in Bahrain, together with two other teams: BMW and Toyota.

The first driver on the track was Felipe Massa. The Brazilian started the day with setup work on his car, to find the best possible settings for his start to dedicate himself later in the afternoon to some mileage tests with a series of quite long runs (with 15 laps each). At the end Felipe had completed 98 laps or around 530 kilometres.

The Ferrarista's fastest lap was 1.33.615, the second fastest time of the day, behind Glock (1.33.501), but ahead of Kubica (1.33.702). This shows how even the balance of power is distributed on the track amongst the teams here at Sakhir.

"I'd say that it was a positive start of this test session. We drove many kilometres, driving with continuity and we could quickly find a very good setup for the car," Felipe said at the end of the day. "I'm especially satisfied with the constant lap times in the afternoon, when we drove some pretty long stints. But it's still far too early to understand where we are compared to our competitors. And there's still a lot of work to do to improve the car's behaviour.

The Ferrari F60 today on the track in Bahrain was the same used during the tests at Mugello in January. The main goal of the day was to finally drive it under stable track conditions and similar temperatures the teams will have during the races to test the car's reliability and to get to know the slicks. As far as the reliability is concerned today's main problem was an electronic anomaly, which didn't allow the use of the KERS, which remained deactivated over the whole day.

The tests will proceed tomorrow with Felipe behind the wheel. As of Thursday Kimi Raikkonen will continue developing the car.

McLaren:

Date: Tuesday February 10 2009
Drivers: Heikki Kovalainen
Location: Circuito de Jerez
Track Length: 4.423km
Weather: Dry and cloudy - with a mid-morning shower
Track temperature: Maximum 20.6°C
Air temperature: Maximum 16.7°C
Laps run today: 60
Laps run in total at test: 60
Kilometres covered today: 265km
Kilometres covered in total at test: 265km
Best lap time today: 1m22.634 at 16:29
Best lap time of the test: 1m22.634
Programme: First running of MP4-24 in familiar conditions. Heikki ran a parallel programme, focusing on developing useful set-ups for the new car while also putting mileage on the car’s active KERS device. The team set itself prudent targets on both thermal and pressure thresholds in order to safeguard the machinery and this resulted in a few aborted runs when those thresholds were reached. Heikki felt the KERS device worked well but required further work in concert with the car’s set-up to produce optimum results. As much of the day’s work was exploratory, the team chose to undertake most of its work on a single set of dry tyres choosing only to switch to fresh rubber – and set its fastest lap – towards the end of the day. The team will continue with the same programme tomorrow and is optimistic of increasing the length of the runs as it increases its understanding of the KERS device.
Drivers for tomorrow: Heikki
Duration of test: Four days (Feb 10-13)
Next Test: Jerez (Mar 1-4)

BMW:

February 10th – 13th 2009
Day one – Tuesday

Weather conditions: Heavy fog in the morning, sunny for the rest of the day.

Temperature: Air: 15 – 27 °C, Track: 17 – 35 °C

Number of drivers participating: 3 from 3 teams

Fastest lap overall: Timo Glock (Toyota) 1:33.501 min

Circuit length: 5.412 km

Robert Kubica
Chassis / engine: BMW Sauber F1.09-02 / BMW 86/9
Test kilometres today: 515 (95 laps)
Fastest lap: 1:33.702 min

Programme:
The start of today’s test session was delayed by nearly two hours due to poor visibility. Once the fog went away and the sun came out Robert Kubica worked on the set-up of the BMW Sauber F1.09. The team made good progress developing the new car, although just after the lunch break Kubica stopped out on the track due to a mechanical problem. He resumed testing after repairs had been made.

“It was the first time I was able to drive the new car in warm weather”, Kubica said after completing 95 laps. “We learned a lot about the car’s behaviour in these conditions, so overall it was a good day.”

What comes next:
This week’s testing in Bahrain will continue until Friday. Robert Kubica will be at the wheel of the BMW Sauber F1.09 again tomorrow and Thursday. On Friday Christian Klien will take over testing duties.

[rage2]

http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/jihkevte1.jpg

McLaren using Flo-Vis in today's test. A little background... Flow-Vis is used to check aerodynamics... air flow patterns. Usually, this is used in the wind tunnels. So far, Renault (who's really slow) and McLaren (who wasn't blazing today either) have now used it on the track. It's rarely used on the track because competitors can clearly see the airflow patterns of your car and be able to steal aero ideas, etc. With the amount of testing being so limited and with only 50% scale windtunnels allowed this year, using flow-vis on the track points to some sort of an aerodynamic problem. CAD/CAM Design + CFD simulations doesn't match real world results.

McLaren's time btw was set on fresh tires at the end of the day (when the track is usually fastest), but still ended up 2nd last.

:(

[rage2]

And finally, video from today.

pbgQlmqKhvA

Lunch break over... back to work for me lol.

[arian_ma]

What's the difference in the cars this year? Were the rules changed? They all look a lot different, especially in the front wing area. (Sorry I don't follow this stuff)

[Eleanor]

^ http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2008/11/8741.html

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by arian_ma
What's the difference in the cars this year? Were the rules changed? They all look a lot different, especially in the front wing area. (Sorry I don't follow this stuff)

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/251894/red-bull-racing-video-2008-vs-2009-regulations/

[H4LFY2nR]

Originally posted by rage2
http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/jihkevte1.jpg

McLaren using Flo-Vis in today's test. A little background... Flow-Vis is used to check aerodynamics... air flow patterns. Usually, this is used in the wind tunnels. So far, Renault (who's really slow) and McLaren (who wasn't blazing today either) have now used it on the track. It's rarely used on the track because competitors can clearly see the airflow patterns of your car and be able to steal aero ideas, etc. With the amount of testing being so limited and with only 50% scale windtunnels allowed this year, using flow-vis on the track points to some sort of an aerodynamic problem. CAD/CAM Design + CFD simulations doesn't match real world results.

McLaren's time btw was set on fresh tires at the end of the day (when the track is usually fastest), but still ended up 2nd last.

:(

WOAH they made some very drastic changes to the front suspension geometry since last year!

- the front roll center is insanely high compared to the MP-23

-the steering rack length and position are definitely increasing bump steer as opposed to the Mp-23

MP-23 for comparo
http://www.f1-site.com/wallpapers/2008/tests/mclaren_jerez/mclaren-1.jpg

I'm fairly confused by these drastic geometry changes that shouldn't be due to packaging constraints since they were able to position them differently in the MP-23. I suppose the new a-arm geometry could be to increase the elastic weight transfer since the reduction in downforce during cornering will be more dramatic. However, the increased scrub of the larger a-arm incline and the added bump steer would wear through tires way faster.

But I suppose they must have some reason for doing it...I was told by former F1 engineer Claude Roulle (and now a consultant who does seminars for clients including Ferrari and Toyota) 'Aero is king in F1....almost anything will be sacrificed for aero so don't believe that everything they do is ideal'
Hopefully it will shave some time off overall...

Here's a photo of Formula 3 car's with more conventional suspension kinematics focused more on vehicle dynamics than aero packaging constraints.http://www.filip-salaquarda.cz/data/custom/Image/GP2S2197.JPG
note the roll center heights below the CG and very long virtual swing arm lengths

[rage2]

Day 2 of testing.

Jerez got rain yesterday, Bahrain gets a sandstorm today. The track is filthy there right now, and by afternoon there's a chance of rain. It's so bad they've decided to cancel the rest of testing there for the day. Here's Massa at Bahrain...
http://www.sutton-images.com/previews/deh0911fe20.jpg

McLaren is quite a bit faster today, but it's because they've reverted back to the '08 rear wing :nut:. I dunno WTF is going on with them.
http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/82z0q98h1.jpg

McLaren guys staring at the Red Bull RB5's rear end.
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/118100.jpg
http://photos.dppi.net/palms/zimagettes/Formula_One/F1_2009_SEASON/TESTING_SESSIONS_2009/090212_JEREZ_F1_TESTS/095_WEBBER_JPG/guest_600.jpg

McLaren also increased the size of the KERS cooling inlet. Heikki could only do 3 laps at a time yesterday until things hit thermal limits.
http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/52xl98y98.jpg

Times thus far:

1. S. Buemi Toro Rosso 1:17'.704
2. M. Webber Red Bull 1:21.321 +3.617
3. H. Kovalainen McLaren 1:21.324 +3.620
4. K. Nakajima Williams 1:21.451 +3.747
5. N. Piquet Jr Renault 1:22.278 +4.574

Remember, Buemi is in an 08 car (doesn't count), and Heikki was using the 08 rear wing (doesn't count).

[buh_buh]

:rofl: Looks like either McLaren's in some trouble, or RBR is FAST.
Renault and Williams I'd expect to be there. They're slow anyway and should take any tips they can get.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/news/images_big/43418.jpg

[rage2]

Final times for Day #2 at Jerez:

1. S. Buemi Toro Rosso 01:17.591
2. H. Kovalainen McLaren 01:20.799 +3.208
3. M. Webber Red Bull 01:21.321 +3.730
4. K. Nakajima Williams 01:21.451 +3.860
5. N. Piquet Jr Renault 01:21.908 +4.317

Notes: Toro Rosso using 2008 Car, McLaren's best time was with a 2008 spec rear wing. They said their 09 high downforce wing wasn't ready yet, so they simulated it using a 08 spec wing with similar DF levels.

[rage2]

Press Releases for Today.

Ferrari:

Second day of testing at the Sakhir circuit

Circuit: Bahrain International Circuit - 5.412 km
Driver: Felipe Massa
Car: Ferrari F60
Weather: air temperature 20 °C, track temperature 21 °C. Sunny for the first hour, then wind, bringing a sand and dust storm.

Second day of testing this week for Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, working again today at the Sakhir circuit, in Bahrain.

Today's programme was stopped early, less than two hours after the start, because of a sandstorm hitting Bahrain, which meant it was impossible for the medical helicopter to fly, in the event of an emergency. Up to that point, Felipe Massa had covered 17 laps, the quickest in a time of 1.33.639.

Testing continues at this circuit tomorrow, when Kimi Raikkonen will be driving.

McLaren:

McLaren Programme: A continuation of yesterday’s programme, focusing on car set-up and putting miles on MP4-24’s KERS device. Fine weather meant Heikki was able to rack up 110 laps throughout the day, including several longer runs as both the team and driver became more comfortable with the car’s balance. Without a high-downforce 2009-spec rear wing, the team opted to run with a modified 2008 rear wing. The KERS programme ran smoothly throughout the day.

note - McLaren used Flow-Vis again today, and clocked the fastest time with the 08 wing. :(

[DJ Lazy]

Mclaren better get their act together with the 09 rear wing.... First race is in about a month, and they only have a couple of testing days left. :banghead:

[buh_buh]

regardless of whether the rear wing is any good, they have to put it on for tomorrow. Otherwise its just another day of useless testing, other than to reiterate that the '09 aero works with the '08 wing, which they already know. Only 6 test days left.

Go Honda! :cry:

[rage2]

Actually there's another 8 days of testing after these 6 days. Plus a single final shakedown day, which means there's still 15 days of testing left.

If they don't have the high DF 09 wing at Jerez already, I seriously doubt they'll have it for tomorrow or Friday.

[H4LFY2nR]

^ assuming they have the design done, they could run the autoclave overnight lol

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by rage2
If they don't have the high DF 09 wing at Jerez already, I seriously doubt they'll have it for tomorrow or Friday.


Wasn't Heikki running the 09 wing yesterday? f1.com shows photos of it..

[rage2]

Yes, but that's their low DF rear wing. Usually, teams have 3 specs of rear wings for the season, a low DF one (for tracks like Spa), a high DF one (for tracks like Monaco), and one just for Monza.

[rage2]

Day 3 action. Busy day at work, didn't get to catch up on F1 stuff till now :(.

Bahrain, testing cancelled AGAIN. High winds, sand storm. Sucks for those teams there... they spent 500,000 euros MORE to guarantee themselves good running weather. European weather is unpredictable this time of year. They've only had 1 full day of testing at Bahrain. Crazy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Ajacied/jtnrhebdxvs.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Ajacied/75k6mtndb.jpg

Same good weather at Jerez. Final times for today:

1. S. Bourdais Toro Rosso 01:18.493
2. L. Hamilton McLaren 01:20.737 +2.244
3. S. Vettel Red Bull 01:20.738 +2.245
4. K. Nakajima Williams 01:20.898 +2.405
5. F. Alonso Renault 01:21.307 +2.814

Torro Rosso still using 2008 car, and McLaren still using 08 spec rear wing. Fastest laps were all set quite early on, as most teams were testing tire wear/long stints. Renault seems to be eating up the rear tires very quick, after only 5 laps.

Here's a video from today's test action at Jerez.

6YUzgEEfkh4

[DJ Lazy]

Kinda funny that teams would "bet" half a million euro's on the weather..