Please Make Certain That Oncoming Traffic is Able to Stop Before Making a Left Turn!!

[badatusrnames]

Sorry for the length/lameness. It's not that interesting a read if you're short on time.

I've been lucky that given the mild weather and dry roads, that after having it garaged for most of December and January, I've been able to drive my car without having to change from my summer tires and have had no problems with traction (I'm not the only one as evidenced by the recent cruise pics). I checked the forecast before heading out this morning didn't see any snow forecast so I drove the car to school as per usual. It hadn't started snowing when I left.

By the time I got out of class at 11:00, conditions had deteriorated quite badly and I made the decision to try and get the car home before things got even worse - foolish decision, I should have just left it over night and waited until the roads cleared or if really need be, get a tow (my buddy has a flatbed trailer).

I manage to make it to 16th Ave WB from the University, encountering no real problems, driving carefully and deliberately, leaving plenty of space in traffic (I survived a few winters in a RWD Chevette with crappy all seasons). The roads were slippery, but manageable. However, the whole time I was praying that no one would decide to cut me off or make a turn in front of me on the assumption I can make a quick stop. At this point I started thinking I had likely made a mistake in driving it, but I was really too late.

At 16th Ave and 10th St (WB), I'm doing about 35-40km/hr (really taking it easy) in the middle lane and about 75 ft from the intersection. A Subaru Legacy is in the right lane about ten feet ahead of me going a little faster (he had just passed me).

The light goes yellow and a Jetta quickly decides to make a left turn across us on the yellow. With better tires, I likely wouldn't have been able to stop on time, with summers, it's even worse. As I see the Jetta making his turn, I pump the brakes (ABS is also kicking in) and hope the Jetta will clear the intersection before I reach it. However, the Legacy beside me is also unable to stop in time and is also continuing towards the intersection. The Jetta stops in the middle of the intersection to avoid a collision with the Legacy, which means he has parked himself directly in my path.

Somehow I pull out some sort of instinctual/skillful evasive maneuver, hold on the brakes as long as possible to bleed off speed, release brakes, drift/swerve around the back bumper of the Jetta, recover and make it through unscathed with probably less than 12 inches to spare. I'm pretty sure the Legacy had to swerve around his front end as well.

I've been driving 8 years and drive quite defensively in traffic (bit of a grandma, I get tailgated a lot, but I'll admit that I'll open it up on empty roads) and this is about the closest call I've had...

Sorry for the long read, but moral of the story:

Even more so in bad conditions like today - if you've entered an intersection to make a left and the light changes, make DAMN sure that oncoming traffic can and is/has come to a stop before you proceed. Even if that means you have to wait for a red. Traffic on either side (perpendicular) can see the car in front of them and won't proceed even if they have the green. I just don't understand how drivers can put blind faith in other drivers and turn directly into oncoming traffic on the assumption that those cars bearing down on them can or will stop. The Jetta driver did just that and risked a multi-car collision.

On my end, if the weather forecast lets you down and you're uncertain of the safety of the vehicle for the conditions, just leave it. I made a stupid choice in trying to get it home. It wasn't worth chancing a collision. In my specific instance, tires likely wouldn't have made a difference, but someone could have cut me off in a manner where it would have meant the difference.

Before you flame me, bear in mind that I'm a chill guy.

[funkedelic2]

i thought it was going to end in a huge crash. Glad your okay and glad your car is as well. Lesson learnt! :thumbsup:

[Jlude]

Originally posted by badatusrnames

Before you flame me, bear in mind that I'm a chill guy.

:rofl:

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by badatusrnames
As I see the Jetta making his turn, I pump the brakes (ABS is also kicking in) and hope the Jetta will clear the intersection before I reach it.


Chil guy or no, why are you pumping the brakes if you have ABS?

That out of the way, I have seem many times where someone thinks that bad conditions means they can run red lights willy-nilly. I've been in a couple close calls due to this exact situation.

[whiskas]

The moral of the story is you don't pump your brakes, especially if you have ABS. I don't know where people still get that idea from.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow


Chil guy or no, why are you pumping the brakes if you have ABS?

I guess pumping was misleading, I wasn't rapidly pressing them on and off, but the car was starting to go sideways under braking, so I was trying to keep the car straight and under control while slowing down at the same time by alternating between braking and not.

Holding the brakes down would have surely meant going sideways and I either would've slid into the Jetta on my right or the lamp post on the left. ABS alone wasn't nearly enough given the conditions.

Some people are too reliant on ABS and assume it's a stop-all. It was a fuck all in my case. Stopping wasn't an option - all I could do was avoid.


Originally posted by ExtraSlow
That out of the way, I have seem many times where someone thinks that bad conditions means they can run red lights willy-nilly. I've been in a couple close calls due to this exact situation.

Trust me man, I would have done anything to stop at that light. I saw the Jetta prepared to make the left turn and knew there was little chance I could stop in time... there was really nothing I could do (other than have stayed off the roads). I don't like running reds (for obvious reasons). Bad situation all around.

[RotaryPower]

I thought this was going to be about the guy who drove through the front doors of emerald garden on 16th when I first sarted reading:facepalm:

Glad to hear everyone was safe though.

[Kona9]

I checked the forecast this morning before leaving for work as well and it still said 40% chance of snow!

Glad you are ok and your car as well, but it's February in Calgary. Driving summer cars in March and April here is still generally a no no.

Someone was looking out for you today! Good on ya for being in one piece!

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by badatusrnames
With better tires, I likely wouldn't have been able to stop on time, with summers, it's even worse. Why do you have summers on? It's February.

That being said, I'm glad to hear no one was hurt & no damage done :thumbsup:

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Kona9
I checked the forecast this morning before leaving for work as well and it still said 40% chance of snow!

Where did you check the forecast? I checked weathernetwork.com at around 6:30 and it didn't say anything about snow (at least I'm certain it didn't). Maybe I need to get my weather from somewhere else.


Originally posted by Kona9
Glad you are ok and your car as well, but it's February in Calgary. Driving summer cars in March and April here is still generally a no no.

I know, but given the week of done dry roads and above freezing temps - it's tough not to drive it! I realize that you are always running the risk of a surprise dump in Calgary. I should have just accepted that and left it in the lot instead of being stubborn and trying to nurse it home.


Originally posted by Kona9
Someone was looking out for you today! Good on ya for being in one piece!

Thanks.


Originally posted by Eleanor
Why do you have summers on? It's February.

That being said, I'm glad to hear no one was hurt & no damage done :thumbsup:

Like I said, bone dry roads all over the city all week meant that "summers" really weren't a problem at all and my traction was excellent. It's not driven when the roads are snowy/icy/wet.

[Boat]

Jetta turns left on yellow, Jetta stops in middle of intersection. OP narrowly misses Jetta on summer tires.

Moral: Turn on the red if you have to, don't go for the gamble!

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Boat
Jetta turns left on yellow, Jetta stops in middle of intersection. OP narrowly misses Jetta on summer tires.

Moral: Turn on the red if you have to, don't go for the gamble!

And don't drive your car on summers if you get a dump of snow!

And in my (lame) defence, the Legacy beside me had on what I presume were all seasons and couldn't make the stop either...

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by badatusrnames
Like I said, bone dry roads all week meant that "summers" really weren't a problem at all and my traction was excellent. It's garaged when the roads are snowy/icy/wet. Even then, when the temperature is hovering around zero, your summers are hockey pucks offering very little traction. It's not just snow & ice, temperature is a factor as well.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Eleanor
Even then, when the temperature is hovering around zero, your summers are hockey pucks offering very little traction. It's not just snow & ice, temperature is a factor as well.

I think hockey pucks is quite a bit of a stretch, I'm pretty sure they engineer the compound to operate acceptably over a wider range of conditions than just 20C-30C. Granted, it's not a winter tire good to -30C.

Like I said, I didn't notice any decrease in traction all week and could stop just as fine as in warmer conditions (I made sure). It might have made a difference if I was trying to launch off of lights... but otherwise it really wasn't an issue.

I've driven my mom's grand am with all seasons this week as well and got better braking with my car... (which has a bigger tire footprint and disc brakes on all four corners).

Regardless, the issue is me being dumb enough to try and drive it in the middle of a snow dump today.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by badatusrnames
I think hockey pucks is quite a bit of a stretch, I'm pretty sure they engineer the compound to operate acceptably over a wider range of conditions than just 20C-30C. You're right, it's more like 7C - 50C. Summer compound tires are not functioning properly at these temperatures. Period.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Eleanor
You're right, it's more like 7C - 50C. Summer compound tires are not functioning properly at these temperatures. Period.

Haha ok, then I'll take your word for it. No sense in arguing back and forth.

Maybe we can start a new thread arguing the pros and cons about driving sedately with summer tires on bare pavement when the ambient temperature is around 5C.

[Tarrantula]

Hey bad, I feel for you. Fuck all these other guys who are harping on you.. If I got a moment of dry pavement.. I was drivin the 3 bills too.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Tarrantula
Hey bad, I feel for you. Fuck all these other guys who are harping on you.. If I got a moment of dry pavement.. I was drivin the 3 bills too.

Haha thanks for the moral support.

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by badatusrnames


Haha thanks for the moral support.

They dont understand cause they all imported there 300's.

LHD ftw.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Tarrantula


They dont understand cause they all imported there 300's.

LHD ftw.

Yeah... uhh RHD ftl...

*Looks at the very clean, bone stock, mint, low km, trouble free and affordable Fairlady sitting in his garage*

No offense Tarrantula, I had a very tough choice to make in going to the wrong side... but I didn't want the type of hassles you went through with trying to get your LHD Z up to scratch...

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by badatusrnames


Yeah... uhh RHD ftl...

*Looks at the very clean, bone stock, mint, low km, trouble free and affordable Fairlady sitting in his garage*

No offense Tarrantula, I had a very tough choice to make in going to the wrong side... but I didn't want the type of hassles you went through with trying to get your LHD Z up to scratch...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I forgot you imported yours. Well.. 300z ftw then.

Yes, Mine was mint until I got a hold of it.. and blew the NA motor.. and swapped a TT in.. with endless problems.

But i still drove the shit out of it regardless.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by Tarrantula


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I forgot you imported yours. Well.. 300z ftw then.

Yes, Mine was mint until I got a hold of it.. and blew the NA motor.. and swapped a TT in.. with endless problems.

But i still drove the shit out of it regardless.



Yeah I searched for about a month for something acceptable to me that wasn't an arm and a leg... it either came down to getting a tired LHD TT and likely swapping in a JDM motor or just getting a Fairlady in great for shape for cheap... went for the latter. I've always wanted a Z, I don't care much for any other RHD cars. I'll probably get something more 'respectable' in the next year or so though.

I've seen a few really, really ultra pure TT's pop up on eBay in the US that have less than 30,000 miles that go for around 30-35K... if I was going to get a LHD it would have to be like that. I wouldn't pay 10-15K for a LHD with high miles and lots of wear and tear.

[InLoveWitRSX]

Close call! damn jetta.

[jwslam]

yea driving on summers is dumb: never do it anytime between october and may... we all know how trustworthy weathermen are
my bud was just saying how he should get winters one night at the pub.
right afterwards, he got into an accident.
here's the kicker, he hit ME. i don't know if that's lucky or unlucky for him but i'm definitely the innocent one.

[alloroc]

Our subaru stops faster on ice if you pump the brakes.
I find it is advantagous to find the sweet spot just before the abs kicks in. Once the abs kicks in on ice you might as well floor it because it isn't going to stop, even with winters. ABS on pavement though stops the car near as fast as what I could do without abs and with more control.

[G-ZUS]

happened to my friend last week, she wasnt lucky enough. The guy who was turning smoked her

[shin0bi]

I'm so glad you ended the story with a skillful drift of crash avoidance. Nobody wants to see a Fairlady bite the dust.

Mine has winter tires, and I haven't even TOUCHED her since november, with the exception of running her once every couple of weeks for a few minutes so things don't get gunked up.

Park that ride!!

[Tarrantula]

Originally posted by shin0bi
DRIVE that ride!!


Fixed.

[whiskas]

Originally posted by alloroc
I find it is advantagous to find the sweet spot just before the abs kicks in.

Congratulations, you've discovered threshold braking, now if only more people knew about it.

I seriously question sometimes why insurance companies here don't provide premium discounts on people who have taken advanced/performance driving training.

[shin0bi]

Originally posted by Tarrantula



Fixed.


Nooo man!
Calgary weather is just too unpredictable to break out the powerful RWD cars much before April. I don't think its worth the risk if you've got an alternative vehicle to rock for the colder months.

[em2ab]

Make sure the guy barelling toward the yellow light in which I have the right-a-way has adequately prepared his car for the weather conditions.....thanks chief! :thumbsup:

If your car turns sideways when you hit the brakes, do you need an alignment? When's the last time you had one done? Was there an uneven load in the car?

[narou]

wont most cars go sideways when braking on ice or snow.. You know our city roads aren't really level

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by em2ab
If your car turns sideways when you hit the brakes, do you need an alignment? When's the last time you had one done? Was there an uneven load in the car?
A load like this?
http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/data/502/69vet1.jpg

You need to even it out with a similar load on the other side, like this:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh103/adrianhalpern/FatChicks-1.jpg

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by shin0bi
I'm so glad you ended the story with a skillful drift of crash avoidance. Nobody wants to see a Fairlady bite the dust.

Mine has winter tires, and I haven't even TOUCHED her since november, with the exception of running her once every couple of weeks for a few minutes so things don't get gunked up.

Park that ride!!

Why not if the roads are bone dry and temperatures are above freezing (similar to the conditions we had in November)?

And from what I understand, running your car and shutting it down without it warming up to operating temp causes condensation to form in your engine and exhaust - not good.

But like I've said, I shouldn't have been on the road at all yesterday. Didn't have any problems all the previous week though... when the weather was mild and the roads clear.


Originally posted by whiskas


Congratulations, you've discovered threshold braking, now if only more people knew about it.

I seriously question sometimes why insurance companies here don't provide premium discounts on people who have taken advanced/performance driving training.

I agree. Or even mandatory advanced training on how to drive in low traction conditions like Sweden.


Originally posted by shin0bi



Nooo man!
Calgary weather is just too unpredictable to break out the powerful RWD cars much before April. I don't think its worth the risk if you've got an alternative vehicle to rock for the colder months.

Your car is only as powerful as how far you push down the pedal. It wasn't the going that was a problem yesterday (you need to drive with discipline), it's the stopping that was a problem - which is a result of having improper tires, not driving a RWD car that can potentially generate a lot of power.


Originally posted by em2ab
Make sure the guy barelling toward the yellow light in which I have the right-a-way has adequately prepared his car for the weather conditions.....thanks chief! :thumbsup:

In my opinion, it's not so much an argument about who has the right of way, it's about the fallacy of putting blind faith in the fact that the other drivers can and will stop, regardless of whether they "should." Same difference with pedestrians that walk in front of traffic in a crosswalk on the blind assumption the strangers driving the cars bearing down on them are going to stop.

In my opinion, the fact you had right of way is little consolation when your car is smashed or you've been mowed down in a crosswalk. Regardless, don't people who turn on yellows and get smacked normally get charged/ticketed with making a turn with undue care?

From what I understand, although it's common practice to make a left turn on a yellow, it's technically not legal to do so. Correct me if I'm wrong though...


Originally posted by em2ab
If your car turns sideways when you hit the brakes, do you need an alignment? When's the last time you had one done? Was there an uneven load in the car?

Actually, Tiffany Lukian was riding shotgun.

Dry pavement it's fine, the car brakes like it should (very well). But when you've got next to zero traction and all four wheels are locked, yes, a car will drift and slide one way or the other, the wheels are no longer directing the vehicle - you're at the mercy of gravity and the direction of your momentun. That intersection isn't level either - 16th Ave WB is on a downhill and 10th St. also slopes upwards from South to North.

Like I've said, I fail for trying to get it home in the middle of a snow fall... there's no way to justify it.

[2Valve0]

....Wow....I was so let down by this i was hoping for i smashed into this retard and now insurance wont cover me hahaha

[95teetee]

Originally posted by badatusrnames


I think hockey pucks is quite a bit of a stretch, I'm pretty sure they engineer the compound to operate acceptably over a wider range of conditions than just 20C-30C. Granted, it's not a winter tire good to -30C.
agreed- too many people quote that 7 degree celsius company line that the tire companies have been drilling into our heads. I leave my KDW's on until there's plenty of snow (and even then I might leave them on a while longer- 5ziggies>stock rims:D ) Which means that they see plenty of cold weather. No traction problems at all (sure the AWD helps that, but that's not the whole story).

[Kennyredline]

Let's not forget that when people are turning left, there is only one vehicle supposed to be across the stop line anyway...a lot of these accidents are caused by the second or even third vehicle running the light trying to turn left, when they should be waiting as soon as the light turns yellow.

[shin0bi]

^^ Agreed.
I've seen 4 people go through before. On 16th.
I dunno why 16th is such a magnet for retards.

[Zhariak]

Was on MacLoud going north a couple days ago, someone going south turning left at a set of lights turned right as I was going through the intersection. Light was green, no reason for them to go.

I was doing around 64Km/h or so. Had to slam on the breaks since the car turned right into me. What a frigging joke.

[jonnycat]

Originally posted by shin0bi



Nooo man!
Calgary weather is just too unpredictable to break out the powerful RWD cars much before April. I don't think its worth the risk if you've got an alternative vehicle to rock for the colder months.

I find my RWD even more capable in the winter than any FWD I ever owned, running all seasons. It may not be a 300 ZX TT but it's not a slouch either. 340 hp / 390 tq w/o mods at the crank.