College students feel entitled to higher grades

[pyroza]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/education/18college.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

What the hell, you get the grade that you earn. If you want an A, work for it.

[Ebon]

Totally agree. Its the quality of your work, not the time you put into it or else we would have a huge amount people doing every job.

Quality and the time put into it are usually correlated but not always.

[CivicDXR]

Its society nowadays, people thing they are now 'entitled' to everything.

Almost like how younger people now think they are entitled to just walk across a street without having to look both ways because of our 'pedestrian' based traffic laws, as compared to them being 'vehicle' based traffic law. Last I knew, the road was for cars.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by CivicDXR


Almost like how younger people now think they are entitled to just walk across a street without having to look both ways because of our 'pedestrian' based traffic laws, as compared to them being 'vehicle' based traffic law. Last I knew, the road was for cars.

Our pedestrian laws are nothing new. Did those same laws teach you to walk heedlessly into the street? No, it's something else.

[Mibz]

They should just go to SAIT.

[CivicDXR]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Our pedestrian laws are nothing new. Did those same laws teach you to walk heedlessly into the street? No, it's something else.

Yeah, guess you're right. :nut:

[Stephen81]

Originally posted by Mibz
They should just go to SAIT.

LOL, this is true.

[believe]

i think sometimes effort should have a little to do with your grade. maybe not a full letter grade but maybe from a C+ to B- etc...

Not sure about other faculties, but i know lots of people in engg who just bum notes/assignments/tests off other people and end up getting the same or better mark as someone who shows up everyday and actually does the work.

[msommers]

Maybe this attitude of 'entitlement' is stemming from exterior teachings rather than personal belief. While it may be a side step, think about this: how many times have you heard from a parent, friend, coworker, TV, a movie, a book...if you work hard, you can do anything you want. That want, while in college/university, is typically to excel in your courses. I am sure the idea of "if you work..." was or is supposed to let your imagination sore, and/or negate any obstacles that may be in the way to accomplish your 'dream'. The 'dream' here could be academic success. The ideal is great; maybe students are feeling that you've put in all they have and subsequently should "get what they want." While I cannot make the connection on a personal level, I can understand why it would be happening, if in fact there is some correlation.

I can also understand that some students are complete pains in the ass and will never be happy with their mark unless it is an A. Even if they are wrong, fault would never be admitted and it is somehow the prof's wrongdoing. This could be attributed to either, parents giving their children everything they desire (material things) or they did very well in high school and are putting in the same effort, expecting the same results which of course, will more often than not result in utter disappointment and failure (there are exceptions, of course).

Lastly and not surprisingly, I'm going back to the parents. Some parents have very high expectations for their children and/or push their children so that their goals are nothing less than perfection. So what does the student do? Well everything that they should be doing: studying and attending classes, the magic formula for success, right? Well if this is what the student's parents have told them to do, how are they doing anything wrong? And if they aren't doing anything 'wrong', why is there not an A on their plate?

I see on this site "fuckin entitlement generation" bitch this, bitch that, but who's to fucking blame!! While it would be foolish to pin every child's faults on the parents, they do play an enormous role on how they think and act.

On a side note, if C (2.0 for us) is the targeted average, I wonder what the actual university average GPA is?

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by msommers


On a side note, if C (2.0 for us) is the targeted average, I wonder what the actual university average GPA is?

There is no way C is the target average, unless 90% of people are getting a 2.0 and not much lower. Don't they kick you out at 1.8?

[GenerationX]

SAIT is amazing mon

[vinc456]

"I'm entitled to an A in GLGY 209 for no work because it's supposed to be an easy course and I'm an amazing student." I'm looking at you vinc456!

I think you'll find this article interesting msommers.

http://en.chinaelections.org/NewsInfo.asp?NewsID=19911

It depends on the course but based on personal experience the class average is typically around a B. (percentage wise that could be 60% though)

[Ebon]

Originally posted by Hakkola


There is no way C is the target average, unless 90% of people are getting a 2.0 and not much lower. Don't they kick you out at 1.8? Might be different for that university. If they scale the classes, the university can set their pass fail rate for courses. My stats class this term is scaled for around a 55-60% pass if i remember correctly.

[msommers]

Thanks for the article Vinc, psychological related stuff like that really interests me.

Depressing as balls, but that is the life that SO MANY students in China, Japan, India, Canada...everywhere live. I would not hesitate to say there are more than a handful of students at every university that feel extreme pressure from parents that even perfection is not good enough. This could come from the parents initially failing, hoping they can push someone else to succeed and live vicariously through that success; fucking pathetic.

[IhateDomestic]

Yea.. University of Maryland > University of Calgary


But it is society...American teens are the worst. Dumb as hell. (Just 70-85% of them..)


I have noticed in Canada some teens are incline to just take it as it is while in the US, now their attitudes are much more arrogant like Parisians (not Persians even though the Parisians and the Persians perform much better than the US scholastically)... blame society! :whipped:

[Boat]

Haha its bullshit! I find in my program, (Bcomm) most profs are very stingy on A's because it makes their class look bad infront of their colleagues and superiors.

I dunno its just the way I feel, and the vibe you get from some classes. Mind you, for accounting classes are pretty standard but when it comes to ones which are very subjective (Marketing, ect.). The only thing that makes marketing hard is the marking. Its notorious for being one of the hardest classes in the program... Adding to this... Why does it have to be hard? Why can't it just be a well designed course which facilitates more learning, and less boning of students.

/rant

[Konj]

This article is posted next to Wayne Irvine's office door.

[Gainsbarre]

Originally posted by Boat
Haha its bullshit! I find in my program, (Bcomm) most profs are very stingy on A's because it makes their class look bad infront of their colleagues and superiors.


I found it to be the complete opposite when I was completing the bulk of the courses in my BComm degree (2003-2005). I had one finance professor admit to me that professors in the faculty are compensated based on the (favourable) student evaluations that they receive, which in turn, leads to rampant grade inflation. The professor who was sharing this with me also happened to be one of the highest rated professors in the faculty.

I can't find it right now, but I recall reading a career centre publication from around this time that the average GPA in Haskayne among 3rd or 4th year students was in the 3.4 range -- well above a C average. In fact, I've noticed that many professors (back in 2002-2003 -- when grades were posted on the second floor in the display case in the hallway between SH 215/288 and the washrooms) would never give a grade below B if students completed all components of the course.

[Super_Geo]

Funny read... I guess some people just don't get it.

There are people who can put in 30 hours of studying and get 60 on a test, and there are people who can put in 2 hours and get 90+. Life's not fair... if you're in the first group, you deserve your 60. If you're in the second group, you deserve your 90.

Welcome to the real world... you think if you go to your boss and say "Look, I know I didn't do too well on that last project, but I tried really hard, I think I still should get as big a bonus as Johnson, who only put in half the time but had a perfectly executed project." :rofl:

[vinc456]

I'd have to agree with Gainsbarre. I mean look no further the Haskayne Dean's list; the thing is huge.

[HiTempguy1]

I'm at NAIT (which isn't curved or anything at least for Instrumentation) and they basically will not allow anyone to fail the program :nut: Straight out of the head of the program's mouth!

One of my friend's actually said, "I deserve a better mark then this" because he did terrible on a midterm. I looked at him and said, "Boy, do I have an article for you to read" :rofl:

It all comes back to personal responsibility, this generation (my generation) has none. As somebody said, partially because of the parents (and instructors/teachers/bosses) who won't kick their asses and fail them for their terrible work.

[ee2k]

^^ agree. Kids nowadays are brought up with the notion that they will not let down in any way, that if they fail at anything they will be picked up by the parents somehow. This leads to the feeling of entitlement, not having grown up in an envrionment where failing at something is okay and that it is part of growing up (how many over protective parents do you know, where their kids don't even play outside or were never physically hurt playing and don't know pain and learn from it).

I recall reading an article about how some students are applying for Grad school (MBA), and the parents still want to sit in on the Grad school interview with the Deans. Or even college students' parents calling professors because their kid did not make the grade etc.

[ralliart_girl]

Originally posted by ee2k
I recall reading an article about how some students are applying for Grad school (MBA), and the parents still want to sit in on the Grad school interview with the Deans. Or even college students' parents calling professors because their kid did not make the grade etc.

LOL..I'm not surprised. When I use to do insurance claims, I would have moms calling for their 30 year sons.

[Alterac]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
Funny read... I guess some people just don't get it.

There are people who can put in 30 hours of studying and get 60 on a test, and there are people who can put in 2 hours and get 90+. Life's not fair... if you're in the first group, you deserve your 60. If you're in the second group, you deserve your 90.

Welcome to the real world... you think if you go to your boss and say "Look, I know I didn't do too well on that last project, but I tried really hard, I think I still should get as big a bonus as Johnson, who only put in half the time but had a perfectly executed project." :rofl:

This is exactly what is true.

Somepeople are not as intelligent as others. Its life. Deal.

Everyone has there place in life, so find something your good at, or enjoy doing, and do it.

oh, and on the SAIT topic.. Lots of DUDS come out of that school as with any school.

Shit, my CNT program started with 90 students (3 blocks of 30)
and in the end, it was one class of 25, and the one class of 8 (which I was in).

Idiots.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Alterac
Shit, my CNT program started with 90 students (3 blocks of 30)
and in the end, it was one class of 25, and the one class of 8 (which I was in).

Idiots. IT, when I joined, started with 170 and is down to approximately 60 students over 4 majors. There's 2 months left and people are still dropping out :P
It blows my mind that there are people who fail two or three of five classes a semester who get pushed ahead anyway, yet these people still need to drop-out. If you show up and don't beak off your instructors you'll get your diploma.

[Ebon]

On Haskyane, i'd have to agree.

I'm gonna be transferring into haskyane as a 3rd year, and ive heard in the past you needed a GPA 3.7+ to get in. But i think its gotten a bit better since the avg. gpa to get in now is 3.0 to 3.2. Some of its due to funding but i really doubt they would accept students that are below the average GPA of the faculty.

I still think its too lax though. The deans list is still huge, even though it has some of the highest requirements (5 courses 3.7 gpa per semester).

Something must be working though students of the school wins ton of competitions and awards.

[Alterac]

Originally posted by Mibz
IT, when I joined, started with 170 and is down to approximately 60 students over 4 majors. There's 2 months left and people are still dropping out :P
It blows my mind that there are people who fail two or three of five classes a semester who get pushed ahead anyway, yet these people still need to drop-out. If you show up and don't beak off your instructors you'll get your diploma.

No doubt, some people I remember from my class I would NEVER work with.

I pulled some BS while I was there, and sure didnt get 100%.. but I learned my lesson.

1st Semester: 3.18
2nd Semester: 2.17
3rd Semester: 3.83
4th Semester: 3.7

See ^^^ one of those guys that flew through highschool and nearly got kicked out in post 2nd. Drinkin and Partying is not the best study aid.

It took a little work to fix my shit and start to take my career seriously.

The institutions need to start crackin down on the bullshit. They dont because it makes them look bad. Which is the entire problem, they get funding based on graduation/placement stats.

[msommers]

Originally posted by ee2k
Kids nowadays are brought up with the notion that they will not let down in any way, that if they fail at anything they will be picked up by the parents somehow

Agreed somewhat (ironic since I was complaining about stupid parents!). The public school system doesn't really like holding students back and will push them through regardless of passing or failing. I saw this firsthand as a young friend of mine didn't do well in school at all! His Mom wanted him to be held back, because as she put it, "When he is having trouble now, why make things even worse?" I agreed and still do, but the school board didn't want any of it and passed him. I think that was grade 7. High school I would imagine would be different though.

[sneek]

Originally posted by vinc456
"I'm entitled to an A in GLGY 209 for no work because it's supposed to be an easy course and I'm an amazing student." I'm looking at you vinc456!

I think you'll find this article interesting msommers.

http://en.chinaelections.org/NewsInfo.asp?NewsID=19911

It depends on the course but based on personal experience the class average is typically around a B. (percentage wise that could be 60% though)

LOL GLGY 209 should give you an A...
Not to mention Melissa is easy on the eyes :)

Other classes however, no matter how much you study they seem to screw you. I think some of those classes should be forced to curve. I don't think class average should ever be failing.

[Alterac]

Grades should never be curved.. all a curve does is prove certain people are smarter than others in the class.

It does not represent how thoroughly you understand the material. Curves help the retards more than the people actually wanting to know the subject base.

I do suppose certain classes need to be curved, the phil style classes where you are not ever really right or wrong. Just right or wrong in the eyes of the prof.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Mibz
They should just go to SAIT.

Yep. That's what I did when I dropped out of U of C over 7 years ago. I thought my life was over. My parents were beyond disappointed.

Their reaction was, "SAIT, what's that?" Isn't that where the people who couldn't get into University go? :facepalm:

Oh well, at least my work ethic improved and finished with a 3.3GPA but I know, it's SAIT. :D :rofl:


Originally posted by Super_Geo
Funny read... I guess some people just don't get it.

There are people who can put in 30 hours of studying and get 60 on a test, and there are people who can put in 2 hours and get 90+. Life's not fair... if you're in the first group, you deserve your 60. If you're in the second group, you deserve your 90.

Welcome to the real world... you think if you go to your boss and say "Look, I know I didn't do too well on that last project, but I tried really hard, I think I still should get as big a bonus as Johnson, who only put in half the time but had a perfectly executed project." :rofl:

This I :werd:

[ZorroAMG]

Fucking slacker kids these days...